Formula 1 2013 Santander British Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by lbsf1, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

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    Really? Rosberg had strong pace and when you consider Hamilton's was even better it would have at the very least a close race.
     
  2. FCB-Rizla-TML

    FCB-Rizla-TML

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  3. Samus

    Samus

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    He wouldn't have needed to, unless in the alternative universe where Hamilton doesn't get the puncture Vettel also doesn't retire. Even still he was very much controlling the race from the front before it happened so he was looking good.

    Funny but this is exactly the reason Pirelli aren't going to want this bad press going on for too long. To the uninformed thinking their Pirelli road tyres bear any resemblance/structure to F1 tyres it's going to mean buying another brand next time around.
     
  4. Anghammarad

    Anghammarad Premium

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    Rosberg was lucky that he had a few mid pack cars and also a Räikkönen-on-very-old-tyres cushion between himself and Webber. Had Mark been in second at the restart no one can deny that he would have taken Rosberg easily. The Red Bull car was clearly stronger than the Mercedes.
     
  5. SilverArrow

    SilverArrow

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    You're comparing a Mercedes on primes and a Red Bull on options...
     
  6. Yellowbeard

    Yellowbeard

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    The kerbs have been there since 2009 without previously causing problems, so to my mind, the tyres are completely unfit for purpose and therefore it IS Pirelli's problem.
     
  7. RX-7_FD3S

    RX-7_FD3S

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    Pirelli said they need to change tyre some GP ago, they brought new tyres in Canada but Ferrari, Lotus and Force India use their veto power so it wouldnt happen. So IF there is someone to blame look for those team.

    Also I think the problem in silverstone is probably a 3 way problem.

    1st, the kerbs
    2nd, the tyres and the pressure used during the GP
    3rd, the driver going way on the kerbs and "cutting" corners.

    If you add those 3 together you obtain what we saw on sunday.
     
  8. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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  9. FCB-Rizla-TML

    FCB-Rizla-TML

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    Agreed, the general public's view of Pirelli will be tainted because of all this and their race tires and street tires are nothing alike but it does take away from Pirelli's credibility to some level.
     
  10. IceMan PJN

    IceMan PJN

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    No reason to think Vettel would overtake him. Lewis qualified faster and put a bit of a gap between him and Vettel, and while that gap wasn't huge it was one that Vettel wasn't closing. One could argue that Vettel holds more wins and WDC wins, but that isn't as simple as one driver being better, and Hamilton beat Vettel's time at the Top Gear test track. Mercedes has been doing a lot better during races than they did earlier in the season, so we can't point to early races as evidence that the Mercs would fall off.
     
  11. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

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    Of course Mark would've got him at the time, he was on newer and softer tires in comparison to Nico's far older tires. Doesn't necessarily mean the Red Bull cars were better. If that were the case, then Vettel would've been able to match and even catch Hamilton at the start.
     
  12. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    I'd just like to point out that Nico pit on the same lap as Webber i.e. when the safety car came out. IIRC Webber was running the softer compound, meaning he had a slight advantage over such a short stint.

    The timing of the safety car means that any advantage Rosberg gained from running the options earlier in the race vs Webber who would've ran the primes, was eliminated. Webber would have certainly made the pass. He only needed one more lap.
     
  13. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

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    I wasn't saying he wouldn't, I agreed that he could've for the reasons you pointed out. I was just saying its not necessarily indicative that the Red Bulls was better then the Mercedes.
     
  14. Wardez

    Wardez Staff Emeritus

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    I found some great new perspective from /r/formula1:

     
  15. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    It is a good point :tup:. Whilst Webber wasn't on newer tyres, it was the tyres that caused the difference in pace (I was agreeing with you, just correcting a small point about tyre age).

    On the same compound they were pretty evenly matched in the race. I feel if it wasn't for tyre and gearbox problems we wouldn't have seen a change in the top 3 after turn 1.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  16. zippy_the_cat

    zippy_the_cat

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    Finally acquired and watched video of the race, after spending Sunday and Monday avoiding Twitter and F1-related Web sites. Quick reactions:

    1). Pirelli obviously has got the engineering of this year's tire wrong. Never mind the deg; we're talking structure here and I've not seen a good explanation of why they decided to go from Kevlar to steel belts. They will have to switch back and the FIA needs to knock whatever heads need to be knocked to make it happen.

    2). The tire situation illustrates the unfeasibility of the testing ban. You can't do good engineering without testing and there just isn't enough of it happening on race weekends. I understand the cost/workload objections and say, boo freakin' hoo, too bad. If the cost means we do without an HRT or Marussia, so be it. As for the workload ... look, it's 19 race weekends. Get some process guys, figure out where your processes are inefficient, and fix it. I suspect there's a still a lot of we've-always-done-it-this-way old-school in F1 that can be wrung out by anyone who cared enough to do it.

    3). It's likely that drivers themselves have contributed to the problem by ignoring track limits. With robust tire structures previously, they could get away with it. Without them now, they can't. Solution is better tires, AND making drivers respect track limits. You fix a multi-factor problem by identifying and fixing each contributing factor.

    4). As for the race ... good recovery drives from Webber, Massa, Hamilton and DiResta illustrate again that in a DRS world, cars will gravitate to their natural level.

    5). Shocking strategy failure by Lotus re Kimi and the last safety car. Ill-timed given that he's very probably got a RBR contract offer in his back pocket.

    6). Rosberg's had some bad luck this season, but I'd say that's evened-up for him now and is maybe even in positive territory. But for the problems of Vettel, Hamilton and Webber he'd have been lucky to even make the podium, never mind win the race. This was the least convincing of his three wins -- but, like his dad, he was very opportunistic.
     
  17. gorsad

    gorsad

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    I have to say, the laps after the last safety car produced some great racing/tension, and it really looked close coming into the final lap. But after the 3rd tyre failure, I was very disappointed at Pirelli. I can understand that it the drivers might have hit the kerbs too hard, but if that was the case, why didn't any tyre failures occur last year?

    Overall, there was some good racing, but it was overshadowed by the tyre failures. Rosberg was quite lucky to win, if there were no tyre failures, I think we would have seen either a Vettel or Hamilton win.
     
  18. witham

    witham

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    Had a great weekend at silverstone this year, best of all where I was staying in the woodlands campsite on the Friday I was watching a very good cover of the chain when Eddie Jordan showed up and joined in.

    He then went on to make a slightly drunk and rather interesting speech about f1 and that he has learned of a new team joining,

    here is my video of the song and Eddie's rather interesting speech that is well worth a watch,

    heres the link as I forgot how to embed

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOnQ_rTYVfE
     
  19. braunracing88

    braunracing88 (Banned)

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    The problem kerbs weren't even there in 2009. The problems kerb is at Aintree corner, which has only been part of the layout since the Arena layout came into use in 2010. Watch the video at this link and you'll know what I'm talking about.
    http://f1bias.com/2013/07/01/kimi-gets-pissed/
     
  20. Nessy

    Nessy

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    @ witham.

    Thanks for sharing. :tup:

    :lol: @ the booing.
     
  21. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Clearly he is bringing JordanF1 from the ashes :sly:
     
  22. Yellowbeard

    Yellowbeard

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    The information about the kerbs comes from an interview with Derek Warwick, who is president of the British Racing Drivers Club which owns and runs Silverstone, so I think he'd probably know better than you.
     
  23. F1 fan

    F1 fan Premium

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    ^^^ You'd think so, but evidently not. Iirc, the "problem kerb" was at turn 4, which was completely non-existent in 2009.
     
  24. Wardez

    Wardez Staff Emeritus

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    "Pirelli to switch to Kevlar belts for Germany before reverting to 2012 tyres for Hungary as F1 rips up rule book"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...vers-threat-to-boycott-German-Grand-Prix.html

    Well then, Lotus and Ferrari had a good run, it'll be a RBR and Merc show from now on.

    Hopefully other teams with tire problems can move up a bit though... to try and see things more positively. But in all other regards, wtf Pirelli/FIA.
     
  25. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Why do many use this defunct fallacy to argue with. He is wrong and others on this forum are right, why do people believe that a group of users can't correct the BRDC President that seemed to make a mistake?
     
  26. Samus

    Samus

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    Actually he is right. The first GP on the new track didn't take place until mid 2010 but the kerbs were installed in late 2009, in construction.
     
  27. mu22stang

    mu22stang

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    His quote implied that the "kerbs" have been raced on since 2009 without problem.
     
  28. Lizard

    Lizard Premium

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    Something I thought about.

    The tire that went is the one going over inside kerbs both at turn 4 and the Maggots complex.

    The weight naturally goes to the outside wheels which did not fail.

    Try running your finger along the smooth bit of a blade. No matter how close you get to the blade it won't cut as long as you don't turn your finger round to face the sharp edge.

    With the weight on the outside the tires would be less likely to do this unless the driver got the entire tire behind the kerb. This though would likely cause sidewall damage and the sidewalls were the only bits left and didn't look damaged.

    Also with a cut what is the chances of 5 tires exploading rather than just a puncture? Surely a few more would have gone all the way in and just deflated the tire.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  29. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

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    Drunken Eddie Jordan? I've got to make a trip to Silverstone one of these years.
     
  30. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

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    It's good to see action has been taken and although we may see a few more one stop races this year driver safety is too important, as Derek Warwick said if one of those tyre belts hits someone in the head they could die.