Formula 1 Indefinite break threadFormula 1

[Pezzarinho17]

I've seen a number of different rumour pages suggesting Sebastian Vettel has rejected a contract extension from Ferrari. They have offered a 1 year extension, but he has stated that all of his previous contracts have been 3 years. A 1 year extension makes sense, and I think Vettel might be in denial about recent performances and the threat of Charles Leclerc... Vettel needs Ferrari more than Ferrari need Vettel.

The rumour pages then start to divert from one another on what this will all mean. Favourites for Vettel's seat are Carlos Sainz and Daniel Ricciardo, and all of those 3 drivers are then linked back to Sainz's seat at McLaren. One page even stated that Fernando Alonso is an option for the Scuderia...

 

[phillgt2002]

But I can imagine it is a lot worse in the USA when presenting something which isn't popular nationwide.

I never watched F1's US centered broadcasts for this reason. On top of that, it's filled with tons of awful advertisements.

F1 still has a lot of work to do in order to gain viewership in the United States. There's interest in racing in the United States, but I feel like F1 is a bit much for the average US citizen to follow.

There's people from multiple nationalities to keep track of, drivers come and go constantly, you have to be up at the crack of dawn to catch some of the races (or 1am for Aus' GP). Then there's the money - racing in the US has usually been seen as a grass-roots or hobbyist sport, something that isn't associated with big money because the average person in can get their hands on a 400 cubic inch engine and drive it on the streets with their buddies. I'd assume that the amount of money and careful curating of F1's image is what could intimidate a lot of Americans as well, there isn't much ********, and F1 management doesn't tolerate certain behaviors.

Obviously a comparison to Nascar will come up; you can notice that F1 and Liberty Media are trying really hard to get away from the look or image of Formula 1 drivers being robotic machines built to go fast, which is why they're loosening up on what drivers can say and do - ie: embracing meme culture with the young drivers. Pretty much, they're starting to market the drivers as normal people, just as Nascar allows for there to be fights... for whatever reason.

Going to my first GP in Europe was something. I didn't speak the language much at all, and I obviously stood out in the sea of Dutch giants , and despite having dealt with people from many different cultures, I was still intimidated.

I will say, if it weren't for racing, I wouldn't be as aware as I am of other cultures. F1, Le Mans, WRC, Dakar - they've introduced me to the many different cultures to the world. Apart from football (soccer), I'm not sure what other sports can reach almost all corners of the globe.

Kind of a rant/dump of stuff... I miss F1

 

[Liquid]

Nascar is Nascar. I'd always have thought Formula One has to work hard to compete with IndyCar for American affection because they're principally the same; open-wheel single seaters.

IndyCar is woven into the fabric of American motor racing whilst Formula One gets restitched onto it every so often.

 

[EDK]

But I can imagine it is a lot worse in the USA when presenting something which isn't popular nationwide.

That problem was solved when they moved from NBC to ESPN. They now just use the UK Sky broadcast, there is not a dedicated US broadcast team.

They used to do less of what you describe when the races were on the secondary networks (NBC Sports Network). But for the few races a year (i.e. Monaco) that were on the main network, look the hell out. They were going to treat you like a 3rd grader, every time.

 

[PeterJB]

So there's talks of both Austria and Silverstone doing double-headers behind closed doors:

https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/...ia-and-silverstone-set-to-open-2020-f1-season

That's a hell of a way to start the season.

 

[shoemaker]

So there's talks of both Austria and Silverstone doing double-headers behind closed doors:

https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/...ia-and-silverstone-set-to-open-2020-f1-season

That's a hell of a way to start the season.

Reckon they’ll only do it if they can definitely do more races at other venues shortly after, otherwise whats the point in starting it when you cant really carry on.

 

[PzR Slim]

Season will start on Austria, 3-5 July, and finish in Abu Dhabi in December. They hope to have 15-18 races.

Although this morning it was announced that the French Grand Prix, due to take place in late June, will not be going ahead, we are now increasingly confident with the progress of our plans to begin our season this summer.

We’re targeting a start to racing in Europe through July, August and beginning of September, with the first race taking place in Austria on 3-5 July weekend. September, October and November, would see us race in Eurasia, Asia and the Americas, finishing the season in the Gulf in December with Bahrain before the traditional finale in Abu Dhabi, having completed between 15-18 races.

We will publish our finalised calendar as soon as we possibly can.


We expect the early races to be without fans but hope fans will be part of our events as we move further into the schedule. We still have to work out many issues like the procedures for the teams and our other partners to enter and operate in each country.

The health and safety of all involved will continue to be priority one and we will only go forward if we are confident we have reliable procedures to address both risks and possible issues.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ngaged&utm_term=20200427_BreakingNews_Engaged

 

[twitcher]

A while back (pre Corona) I started watching all the races I could find on YouTube, starting with the ‘97 season. I’ve made it to Britain 2002 so far. I’m actually surprised just how many full races I can find on YouTube...split between English and German commentary.

Without getting too much into it, the V10 grooved tire era was by far the best F1 era. Maybe it’s nostalgia for me, but the combo of the bonkers cars mixed with the not-quite-so-neutered circuits and no DRS makes for some really exciting racing. Not much passing, but it emphasizes quality over quantity. Also, the various pit/fuel strategies combined with attrition means you really don’t know how the race will play out, with races rarely finishing similar to the starting order.

I find it a little odd that F1 has yet to show a race from this era with all the races they’ve been posting...saving the best for last? The entire 2000 season was madness, 2001 had some really cracking races, 2002 has been somewhat tame, but half way through the British GP I’m on the edge of my seat watching Schumi and JPM go hammer and tongs on a damp Silverstone.

If memory serves, the lack of overtaking during this era is what started the sport down the path towards DRS. Going back and watching these races, it’s actually surprising how close these cars can follow each other, even through twisty bits. Yes there is some dirty air to deal with, but I think it was more the insanely short breaking distances that made overtaking so difficult. I think it’s so sad that we’ll probably never see DRS go away, as fans won’t tolerate lower overtake numbers, and DRS passes are much much safer than late breaking dive bombs. I can only imagine how boring these races would be if those in the faster cars could simply flip the switch and cruise past on the straights.

Regarding Bob Varsha, when I was younger I used to not really like his commentary. I don’t know if it’s because I know he’s sick right now, or again if it’s just nostalgia, but watching these old races, I actually quite like him. I actually like him more than Murray Walker (very excitable, talks mostly nonsense and drivel) and James Allen (bland, dry). Overall, it’s made me appreciate and miss Crofty, who I find to be a good mix of passionate yet informed.

I also get a kick out of watching Raikkonen vs Verstappen (fun fact, in 2001, Jos had the most overtakes of any driver ).

 

[Jimlaad43]

If we are getting two races at Austria and Silverstone, i can deal with that. But what will they call them? obviously the first of each can easily be branded the "Austrian Grand Prix" and the "British Grand Prix", but what about the second one? 2020 Austrian Grand Prix I and 2020 Austrian Grand Prix II wouldn't sit well. What about if the rumours of three races at Silverstone?

Maybe Austria could run the second race branded as the Swiss/German/Liechtenstein Grand Prix, or go non-national with either Styrian Grand Prix or even Alpine Grand Prix.
Silverstone could host the English Grand Prix. I would say "make the third one the European Grand Prix", but that would piss off 52% of the UK and literally every EU member state if the UK ended up hosting a race with the European flag branded on it. Austria would make more sense to take the European GP title.

Of course they could go down the New Jersey route and call it "Grand Prix of Britain", or perhaps the Commonwealth Grand Prix.

I dunno, what do you think, what other suggestions do you have?

 

[twitcher]

Honestly I think this idea of having races behind closed doors is an extremely poor idea. It only emphasizes that if you have money, you can play by different rules than the rest of us. Furthermore, while I get the idea that the paddock will “self isolate” themselves from the rest of the world, if there is some type of horrendous accident, that will place unnecessary burden on healthcare facilities.

Our grandparents lived without F1 for multiple years during the Second World War, we can tolerate missing one season.

 

[Liquid]

If we are getting two races at Austria and Silverstone, i can deal with that. But what will they call them? obviously the first of each can easily be branded the "Austrian Grand Prix" and the "British Grand Prix", but what about the second one? 2020 Austrian Grand Prix I and 2020 Austrian Grand Prix II wouldn't sit well. What about if the rumours of three races at Silverstone?

Maybe Austria could run the second race branded as the Swiss/German/Liechtenstein Grand Prix, or go non-national with either Styrian Grand Prix or even Alpine Grand Prix.
Silverstone could host the English Grand Prix. I would say "make the third one the European Grand Prix", but that would piss off 52% of the UK and literally every EU member state if the UK ended up hosting a race with the European flag branded on it. Austria would make more sense to take the European GP title.

Of course they could go down the New Jersey route and call it "Grand Prix of Britain", or perhaps the Commonwealth Grand Prix.

I dunno, what do you think, what other suggestions do you have?

The European Grand Prix has been held in Azerbaijan. It's already been done. The European Grand Prix was a thing before not only the European Union and before the EEC but also Formula One so there is precedence for it to still be called that.

You'd have to be dumb as sin to think that the word "European" only literally applies to the European Union but I know I'm skating on thin ice with such wishful thinking. Even if you really do want to focus on the dumb "EU" aspect of the naming, the European Grand Prix has been held outside EU territory even before Azerbaijan; Monaco (1955) is not a member of the EU and has a cushty Switzerland-style deal whilst not being a formal member.

Use the closest geographical designation. The Ö-Ring is in Steiermark so it's the Großer Preis von Steiermark or Styrian Grand Prix. It's fine.

I don't even necessarily see the problem in reusing the terms British or Austrian Grand Prix. Numbers exist. If the first one is the 75th British Grand Prix, the next one is simply the 76th British Grand Prix. It shouldn't matter that it's in the same year; we've just become subconsciously accustomed to using a definite article and calling something the ____ Grand Prix for a given year.

Or, cynically, because each Grand Prix's official name does have the sponsor in it, have two different sponsors for the two different races. There's the Rolex British Grand Prix followed later by the Johnnie Walker British Grand Prix.

 

[PeterJB]

Unless the weather is different the second race will probably be less interesting than the first as they'll have just had a whole weekend on the track so they'll all know it inside-out back-to-front. And unfortunately neither of these circuits have any possible alternate layouts or chicanes they can throw in.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Unless the weather is different the second race will probably be less interesting than the first as they'll have just had a whole weekend on the track so they'll all know it inside-out back-to-front. And unfortunately neither of these circuits have any possible alternate layouts or chicanes they can throw in.

Silverstone will probably try to use the International circuit for its second race, or start from the other pitlane for the lolz.

 

[twitcher]

Silverstone will probably try to use the International circuit for its second race, or start from the other pitlane for the lolz.

They should try an F1 race on the National circuit, with no Blue Flags

 

[PeterJB]

Silverstone will probably try to use the International circuit for its second race, or start from the other pitlane for the lolz.

The old layout still stands so that could be a nice throwback.

 

[Roger the Horse]

They'd have to rebuild it so I'd say it's dubious.

 

[twitcher]

They'd have to rebuild it so I'd say it's dubious.

Unless Google Earth tells a lie, the old Abby Chicane, Bridge, and Priory corners are still there, so technically it could be used? No idea what condition the pavement is in, or if the runoff is up to modern standards though.

I don’t think it would be much of a spectacle though. The good parts of the circuit are still the exact same. By running the old version, the only good corner you gain is Bridge, the old Abby Chicane and Priory corners were nothing special. The new Abby/Village/Loop/Aintree complex is much better in my opinion, plus it creates two much more genuine overtaking opportunities at Village, and Brooklands.

 

[Liquid]

Can they run Silverstone and Ö-Ring in reverse?

I would guess legally-binding safety certificates and marshall retraining but is there much to prevent this?

 

[Roo]

A while back (pre Corona) I started watching all the races I could find on YouTube, starting with the ‘97 season. I’ve made it to Britain 2002 so far. I’m actually surprised just how many full races I can find on YouTube...split between English and German commentary.

Without getting too much into it, the V10 grooved tire era was by far the best F1 era. Maybe it’s nostalgia for me, but the combo of the bonkers cars mixed with the not-quite-so-neutered circuits and no DRS makes for some really exciting racing. Not much passing, but it emphasizes quality over quantity. Also, the various pit/fuel strategies combined with attrition means you really don’t know how the race will play out, with races rarely finishing similar to the starting order.

I find it a little odd that F1 has yet to show a race from this era with all the races they’ve been posting...saving the best for last? The entire 2000 season was madness, 2001 had some really cracking races, 2002 has been somewhat tame, but half way through the British GP I’m on the edge of my seat watching Schumi and JPM go hammer and tongs on a damp Silverstone.

Enhance your historic Grand Prix viewing with contemporary GTP threads! Be warned though, GTP was a very different place back then. Messier, for a start.

Unless Google Earth tells a lie, the old Abby Chicane, Bridge, and Priory corners are still there, so technically it could be used? No idea what condition the pavement is in, or if the runoff is up to modern standards though.

Last time I was there for the WEC, there was a perimeter fence running right across the old Bridge corner, so that would need removing and the track surface repaving there.

 

[daan]

Can they run Silverstone and Ö-Ring in reverse?

I would guess legally-binding safety certificates and marshall retraining but is there much to prevent this?

All of the perimeter walls are in the wrong direction.

For example, if you run from Vale into Stowe you're going through the gap in the outer wall.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Can they run Silverstone and Ö-Ring in reverse?

I would guess legally-binding safety certificates and marshall retraining but is there much to prevent this?

Copse backwards would be suicidal.

Plus all the marshal access points are aligned the wrong way around, the runoff is not suitable for cars going the other way and all the flag points aren't in the right place for drivers to see them on the way back.

 

[Roger the Horse]

A shocking number of people do not seem to understand the basics of how barriers work in these discussions and it's incredibly frustrating.

I really think the "run it in reverse" comment was just an offhand thing about how it could be possible to run different layouts that wasn't meant to be given much thought and now people are acting like it's some sort of feasible reality...

 

[Jimlaad43]

 

[Roger the Horse]

If Silverstone can (and that's a big if) hold any races this season and winds up holding multiple and they really don't want to hold them all on the existing Grand Prix layout then there are honestly numerous options that are far more realistic than running the Grand Prix layout in reverse.

There's the Moto GP layout for starters, though I'm not sure why they'd use that. There's then the current International and National circuits, though I can see why they wouldn't on the grounds that they'd be too short. However even then on top of that reactivating the old Bridge layout (especially for races without spectators) would likely be far easier than converting the entire 2010 GP layout to run in reverse.

Bringing back the old Bridge section would also allow for the possibility of utilising a layout similar to the old international layout with again a much lower amount of work needed than running the whole thing in reverse, though it'd require using the old pits. It would however exceed the 3.5 kilometre minimum distance for a track that isn't Monaco:

But there's the thing. There's an exception for Monaco, and that is a far less exceptional circumstance than we are currently witnessing. If the Austria and Silverstone dual race plan does somehow go ahead, then if they choose against running the same layouts twice (perhaps to avoid the aforementioned issue of the teams entering the second race with a wealth of data therefore creating a predictable scenario), the justification surely exists for running the short layouts.

If Indycar can run at Iowa and F1 at Monaco, Silverstone South should be a breeze.

 

[Liquid]

All of the perimeter walls are in the wrong direction.

For example, if you run from Vale into Stowe you're going through the gap in the outer wall.

View attachment 915247

Copse backwards would be suicidal.

Plus all the marshal access points are aligned the wrong way around, the runoff is not suitable for cars going the other way and all the flag points aren't in the right place for drivers to see them on the way back.

Fair points well made.

 

[Jimlaad43]

View attachment 915255

The old bridge circuit has been turned into an exhibition and concert area, with walls and runoff removed. The kerbs are left to rot basically and parts were used as practice for the contractors for the latest resurfacing. Walls and flagposts would need to be erected around Bridge and Priory, something that just can't be done in these times of Social Distancing and financial struggles for circuits. A special dispensation for the International circuit because it's too short to allow it to have Grade 1 in these exceptional circumstances would make most sense.

Estoril got given a Grade 1 a few weeks ago just in case F1 needed to race in Europe in November, so the FIA are obviously prepared to make grading changes where needed. Circuit length is the only obstacle to the International Circuit, which is why it shouldn't be an issue making the switch.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Makes sense. Would still likely be far easier to refurbish the 750 odd metres of the bridge section than to convert the whole GP layout to run in reverse. Personally I'd just go with using the International circuit for a second race regardless of length, of course.

Also interested about that Estoril fact? Thought Estoril already had Grade 1 unless it lost it at some point.

 

[twitcher]

If Silverstone can (and that's a big if) hold any races this season and winds up holding multiple and they really don't want to hold them all on the existing Grand Prix layout then there are honestly numerous options that are far more realistic than running the Grand Prix layout in reverse.

There's the Moto GP layout for starters, though I'm not sure why they'd use that. There's then the current International and National circuits, though I can see why they wouldn't on the grounds that they'd be too short. However even then on top of that reactivating the old Bridge layout (especially for races without spectators) would likely be far easier than converting the entire 2010 GP layout to run in reverse.

Bringing back the old Bridge section would also allow for the possibility of utilising a layout similar to the old international layout with again a much lower amount of work needed than running the whole thing in reverse, though it'd require using the old pits. It would however exceed the 3.5 kilometre minimum distance for a track that isn't Monaco:

View attachment 915255

But there's the thing. There's an exception for Monaco, and that is a far less exceptional circumstance than we are currently witnessing. If the Austria and Silverstone dual race plan does somehow go ahead, then if they choose against running the same layouts twice (perhaps to avoid the aforementioned issue of the teams entering the second race with a wealth of data therefore creating a predictable scenario), the justification surely exists for running the short layouts.

If Indycar can run at Iowa and F1 at Monaco, Silverstone South should be a breeze.

What’s the difference between the MotoGP layout and the GP layout? I thought the MotoGP guys race on the same layout as F1?

—-

Just as a general point, if F1 is going to have these races behind closed doors (still think it’s a bad idea, but I think there’s a good chance it will happen), I’d rather see them explore some different circuits, rather than use Mickey Mouse configurations of places like Silverstone.

Estoril, Algarve (Portimao) Valencia (Ricardo Tomo), Aragon, Imola, Mugello, Donnington - any of these could be a possibility as far as meeting safety standards.

Imola has actually been making statements that they want to host F1 again, and seem to be actively pursuing a race in the current environment. It could end up being a good test of F1 at Imola, as the major complaint/issue with Imola is not the circuit itself, but the small and cramped paddock area, which wouldn’t be as much of an issue right now.

 

[Liquid]

What’s the difference between the MotoGP layout and the GP layout? I thought the MotoGP guys race on the same layout as F1?

They do but MotoGP uses the old pits at Copse corner.

 

[Jimlaad43]

They do but MotoGP uses the old pits at Copse corner.

And the Chapel corner is tighter. It's all to to with bridges. In a MotoGP circuit, any bridge going across the circuit must be no closer than 350m to the apex of the previous corner. That's why The Loop and Aintree are so close to the Becketts section, because of the Wellington bridge.