Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[artboy76]

My thoughts exactly, they nailed the R3-R1 cars this time. Any car that's soul purpose is to win races and have millions spent in its development and the finest materials used and an abundance of mechanical downforce should not be impossible to drive.
It's a myth, and one I've argued many times. And it should be reflective in a game.
So I don't think they are dumbed down for Forza 4 just that Forza 3 had it a bit wrong, along the lines of the old gamer myth of "impossible to drive = sim".

 

[Scaff]

Before I break this down for a reply, can I remind you of the AUP you agreed to follow when you joined....

You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters.

...failing to follow it in your very first post is not ideal.

i bought GT5 before FM4. i have to say GT5 slowly put the hook on and got me liking the game. i bought FM4 decided not to play it cuz i thought it might ruine GT5 play time but it didn't actually.

That does raise a few questions, such as why buy it in the first place and why join a Forza forum when you seem to have no intention of playing it?

If its to simply flame-bait then I can assure you that you will neither get the reaction you are after, nor will you remain a member for long.

If its to contribute then welcome, but if you dislike Forza so much I just don't see what we have to offer.

Physics are better on GT5 on less skate board feel than FM4, lap times are consistant even without TC off. Forza4 is a must to keep the aids on especially high hp cars, almost impossible to drive.

I find cars in Forza easier to drive, even the high HP models, the reason being is quite simple. They react far more like a real car does as you approach the limit and when you break the limit. For me FM4 has a better suspension model and a significantly better tyre model, GT5 in contrast has almost zero tyre progression, going from grip to none with almost not warning, tyres simply do not act like that.

A while ago I posted a full throttle launch of a Shelby Cobra in FM4 and have asked those who rate GT5 physics as better to recreate it in GT5, and when they can't (because I know GT5s low speed physics don't model it correctly) to then explain why this makes GT5s physics better.

To date no one has, will you be the first?

GT5 engine sounds are brutal but some stock engine sounds are decent so i skip the exhaust upgrade and work on braking points and turn ins.

GT5's engine sounds are, for the vast majority of cars, totally inaccurate.

GT5 using the thumb pressure sensor button for throttle which i like so much better than the trigger throttle type.

Not an issue for me as I prefer the trigger on both the Dual Shock (with extenders that is) and on the 360 controller. but its good that it works for you.

I played FM4 small disappointment, sounds a bit better but not better than rfactor samples. Actually the engine sounds irritate me on after an hour or so i can't pin point it. I turn down the volume but it drives in my ears..ahh. I almost starting to like the muffled GT5 sounds that are decent doesn't drain you out. I Had both systems running on one tv just different hdmi channels.

Sounds are not a bit better than GT5's, they are a lot better. NOw don't get me wrong, neither is 100% correct, but FM4s are a much closer to the real cars that GT5s.

I loaded same car mercedes SLS for both games with stock engines. I actually like the GT5 sound after 10mins because it didn't rip my ears i had to lower the volume. FM4 sounds need better compression.

Sound doesn't need compression at all, I bloody hate this MP3 driven trend to compress the hell out of audio and for it to be accepted.

Sound needs to be uncompressed, hell even GT5 sounds better when you use the home theatre settings and as a result the uncompressed audio. Its still not right, but at least it has a better dynamic range to it.

Uncompressed audio offers a better dynamic range, better sound separation and a better sound stage. These are not points for debate, they are simply true. However (and its a big however) that is still only going to be any good if the original audio has been well recorded.

That FM4 sounds better with compressed audio (which it has) than GT5 which can run uncompressed audio is not a point I would champion.

One of the reasons why I bought a PS3 was to be able to handle uncompressed audio for games and Blu-ray, I've been into Home Cinema for decades and fully understand how this works, I strongly suspect you don't. I've had two PS3's YLOD on me, yet I have always replaced them with fat PS3s, the reason why? They play SACD, high dynamic range audio, and yes I know I'm one of about 15 people in the world who give a damn about it, but I take audio very seriously (as a total aside I'm just starting to plan my next Home Cinema upgrade - had to share).

FM4 Cars are nicer, they have the hottest cars in the game for sure. but GT5 has better tracks/time change/rain etc and thats huge difference.

Better track (as in selection) is debatable, both are short on track count and get beaten by S2U.

As for rain and night, you are aware that they can drop your frame rate to sub 30fps levels?

Not a hit I want in a sim.


Scaff

 

[Jamezinho]

Better track (as in selection) is debatable, both are short on track count and get beaten by S2U.

Forza has the better track selection for my tastes. It has more real-world tracks, which is good as I generally dislike fictional tracks in any racing game.

GT5 has a few classics like Monza, Monaco and Fuji, but I'll take Catalunya, Hockenheim, Silverstone, Mugello, Motegi, Infineon and Road America over those any day.

Then you have to consider that some of GT5's classic tracks are an abomination. Trial Mountain is probably the worst example with its horrendous PS2 textures. In terms of design, Cape Ring is a joke, with it's ridiculous loops and jump that would kill a real car if it landed that hard. Real Driving Simulator, eh?

I can't argue with Shift 2: Unleashed, though. The track selection is the most comprehensive and well chosen I've ever seen in a console racer.

 

[imported_Da-bomber]

Forza has the better track selection for my tastes. It has more real-world tracks, which is good as I generally dislike fictional tracks in any racing game.

GT5 has a few classics like Monza, Monaco and Fuji, but I'll take Catalunya, Hockenheim, Silverstone, Mugello, Motegi, Infineon and Road America over those any day.

Then you have to consider that some of GT5's classic tracks are an abomination. Trial Mountain is probably the worst example with its horrendous PS2 textures. In terms of design, Cape Ring is a joke, with it's ridiculous loops and jump that would kill a real car if it landed that hard. Real Driving Simulator, eh?

I can't argue with Shift 2: Unleashed, though. The track selection is the most comprehensive and well chosen I've ever seen in a console racer.

Maybe someday we can get PD and Turn 10 to start caring about tracks.

OT: Does anyone else get bothered by how shift 2 left out Leman?

 

[Jamezinho]

Maybe someday we can get PD and Turn 10 to start caring about tracks.

OT: Does anyone else get bothered by how shift 2 left out Leman?

Le Mans? No, it didn't bother me. It's not a track I particularly enjoy. In fact I find it quite boring. The Le Mans Bugatti circuit, however, was one of my favourites in Forza 3 so you can imagine how disappointed I was to learn it was cut from Forza 4.

I agree that both PD and T10 need to focus more on the tracks rather than the cars. I find with both games I don't really care about half the cars on the list but tracks really make the game. Tracks will keep me playing a game longer than a huge roster of cars.

 

[PzR Slim]

Le Mans? No, it didn't bother me. It's not a track I particularly enjoy. In fact I find it quite boring. The Le Mans Bugatti circuit, however, was one of my favourites in Forza 3 so you can imagine how disappointed I was to learn it was cut from Forza 4.

I agree that both PD and T10 need to focus more on the tracks rather than the cars. I find with both games I don't really care about half the cars on the list but tracks really make the game. Tracks will keep me playing a game longer than a huge roster of cars.

Agree with you, while Le Mans is fantastic and I love watching it every year the track is not that great. Bugatti, however, as you say is a fantastic track and I was gutted it didn't make the cut in 4. And I have to agree about the tracks. I want to see as many real world tracks as possible. You can keep your fantasy tracks as they do nothing for me.

 

[Patrick]

Maybe someday we can get PD and Turn 10 to start caring about tracks.

OT: Does anyone else get bothered by how shift 2 left out Leman?

I was bothered. It would have been awesome doing night racing.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Have you looked through some of the photomode pics on GTPlanet? They make that picture look just OK.

For example, straight from photomode, no photo manipulation outside of GT5.

*snip*

^That is a standard car by the way.

*snip*

Just to give a few examples.

Heh. As the person behind this photo, I'll use this as an excuse to talk about Photomode. Also, the irony is not lost on me with that being a Standard car - I'm not a fan of them, yet that's my only Photomode Competition win.

That image took quite a while to nail down - look at the super-shallow depth of field, I did that to minimize the appearance of jagged polygons, because those RUFs sure do have a lot of them. That's the same reason I used Black & White - the colour shots I tried were full of murky colours and ugly textures. You can see some of the low-count polygon work along the C-pillar and roofline, and the wheelarch, but that specific spot on Trial Mountain has the speckled lighting from the trees above that helps mask those problems. Also, reflections don't seem to be affected by motion blur the same way the surroundings are, so that image had to be taken from a stand-still or the look just wouldn't work.

GT's Photomode is the more powerful/useful tool though - the fact it mimics a real camera, even if simplistically, is much better than Forza's slider options (though I see the user-friendliness involved with those). The different aspect ratios, the amount of control with regards to lights and wheel angle in Photo Travel, the different Panning modes - it really is quite handy. Obviously, there are some people who would prefer the amount of work put into Photomode was put into other aspects of the game, and I'm in no place to say whether they're right or wrong (opinions, and all that), but I personally am very happy with GT5's Photomode. It's probably the single most thorough aspect of the game. Which could tell you all you need to know about GT5, I suppose

 

[Jamezinho]

Agree with you, while Le Mans is fantastic and I love watching it every year the track is not that great. Bugatti, however, as you say is a fantastic track and I was gutted it didn't make the cut in 4. And I have to agree about the tracks. I want to see as many real world tracks as possible. You can keep your fantasy tracks as they do nothing for me.

I'm not giving up hope that the Bugatti circuit will one day return as free DLC. I'm sure T10 have their reasons for dropping it, but I'm struggling to work out what they are. The track was modelled for Forza3 and then dropped one game later. It doesn't make sense. Surely it just needed a few tweaks and adjustments here and there to run with the new lighting model, and then it's another fairly simple addition to the track roster? Same goes with Positano (although I didn't like that track).

Perhaps T10 just ran out of time, but that doesn't sound like them at all.

 

[Chagen46]

Coming in to post my opinions.

I am a Forza fan now, through and through. I never hated it, but I nevr thought much of it. I was a GT-addict. I even got my parents to pre-order the signature edition (I have the Apex book in my backpack as I type this).

But GT5 is a dissappointment. Not even my DFGT can save it. The game is heavily unfinished. The car list is filled with useless duplicates and missing some great cars. And I'm not even going into the Standard/Premium idiocy. Let's not forget the 17 RMs, barely any events, no livery editor, or much more.

Eventually, I was sick of it. I returned the game for a meager sum of money. A year later, I got a 360 and Forza 4.

Now, Forza 4 is incredible. It blew me away. When I first got GT5, I played it for 6+ hours straight. But only on that first day. It just couldn't hold my interest.

But Forza 4.....now, this was amazing. When I first got it on Christmas break, I spent at least 8 hours each day. For at least 5 straight days. And even today, whenever I can, Forza 4 keeps me hooked to the Tv for hours.

Why? It's the sheer amount of things you can do. Hey, lets take that car I never used before for a race, and see what it does. Oh, I have no cars I want to take out today? No prob, lets head on down to the dealership and pick out a new one....hey, that one looks nice.

Hey, what would this car be like with a few mods? Let's see how it does upgraded. Man, it's kinda boring now. Let's head down to the storefront and buy a design for it...

See, that's what Forza 4 does better than GT5. There's so MUCH to do. Every day of turning on Forza 4 has new cars, new tracks, new things to do. New rivals, new liveries, new tunes, new crazy stuff like making a 700HP Pinto. Why? Because I can, dammit.

Also, I have to say that Forza 4 handles better than GT5. I don't drive in real-life (don't have a license), but Forza 4 seems to handle much more smoothly and better. GT5 was hard as hell on a pad, but I race in F4 with no aids at all (I even use manual with clutch and Sim steering) and it just controls better. But, it's not easier--my 599 GTO is still a complete handful to drive. But I can control it with enough skill, something that was much more difficult with GT5 and my RM Corvette.

In terms of graphics, Forza wins this one. I remember playing it for the first time and being amazed at how smooth everything looked. I had no clue why, until I realized: it's a rock-solid 60FPS. Not only does Forza 4 nearly look as good as GT5, its far smoother too.

In addition, every car in Forza has cockpits. I can vouch that the C32 AMG in game looks almost EXACTLY as my dad's own C230 on the inside, besides a few model-specific differences. Whereas in GT5, 20% of the cars have cockpits. Everything else doesn't have real ones. Also, F4's models, in my eye (and I have a good eye for these things), look 98% as good as GT5's premiums anyway.

Also, Forza lets me download/make Itasha. That is AWESOME. GT5 doesn't. That isn't awesome. My Black Rock Shooter Camaro is really cool looking.

 

[imported_RPM Bibblefish]

I like them both but forza is the most rounded and just more fun for me.

I would play GT5 a lot more if it had full leaderboard support. I'm completely stumped as to why PD have not added them yet after a year of almost constant updates.

Of all the problems with GT5 this is the one that grates with me the most.

 

[Chagen46]

Finally found those pics of my BRS Camaro:

Can't do that in GT.

 

[Terronium-12]

Oh my god.

*Goes to SF*

 

[rtsbasic]

Having followed this thread with great interest about what other people make of these 2 great games, I just wanted to chuck my 2p in there.

They appeal in completely different ways to me. Forza brings out my competitive side - with leaderboards, rivals mode and good ai, and encourages creativity "I wonder what my RL Ford Focus would drive like if it was rwd. And had 400hp. And a shopping trolley spoiler". Gt5 is a much more laid back approach - brimming full of info, I feel like I learn something about a car everytime I play. And that feel continues through the game - its like gt5 is a vast museum and you can take hundreds of cars from it for a spin or a friendly race. But you can't make them your own. And its frustrating if you want to have a competitive race. But its full of enough small touches that I miss in Forza like accurate manufacture colours, or background info on the car your buying, and some quirky car choices (Imagine a sambus or beetle in Forza )

They both have "good enough" physics (not expecting the next live for speed), and they both look stunning, and sound okay (well, FM4 sounds awesome). I'm glad they both exist and will continue to enjoy them both, as I'm sure most of you guys do.

 

[VXR]

Considering Forza has a Pinto and an SVT Raptor, I don't see T10 are playing their game too straight-faced either.

 

[rtsbasic]

Considering Forza has a Pinto and an SVT Raptor, I don't see T10 are playing their game too straight-faced either.

Definitely not, some of the car choices are a right laugh so they're pretty even there. They have a different approach though, to give an example Forza has the Ford Focus svt which is close enough to relate to mine to be happy. Gt5 has the rs and st170 versions, and god knows how many other variants which is nice if you own one (like the mk1 rs in my case). 50 different skylines are pointless on the face of it, but for anyone that could relate to a specific model that's in the game, that will create a more emotional connection than a single R33 that at best is "close enough".

Sorry, more rambling

 

[Chagen46]

Considering Forza has a Pinto and an SVT Raptor, I don't see T10 are playing their game too straight-faced either.

Yeah, so? These are two of my favorite cars in the game.

Your opinion != other's opinions.

 

[VXR]

The Raptor is my favourite American vehicle of the moment, but that aside, I don't see how my comment is bashing the cars? The previous poster to me said he couldn't see the VW Samba or Beetle being in Forza, yet the two I mentioned are equally as left-field a choice for a game that predominantly focuses on track racing.

 

[Chagen46]

Ah. Sorry. It was the negative tone of Rtsbasic that made me think you were being negative as well.

 

[buickgnx88]

But its full of enough small touches that I miss in Forza like accurate manufacture colours, or background info on the car your buying, and some quirky car choices (Imagine a sambus or beetle in Forza )

As far as accurate manufacturer colors, GT does have the names for each and you can get the accurate colors from the dealer, I'll grant you that much (though there are some vehicles that are missing colors that they were offered in real life). However, with Forza's paint shop and vinyl shop, you can make pretty much any manufacturer color and paintjob anyways.

I do agree though that it would be cool if they put in some background info for each vehicle that you could pull up in the garage.

 

[zr1chris]

nevermind

 

[Wolfe]

As far as accurate manufacturer colors, GT does have the names for each and you can get the accurate colors from the dealer, I'll grant you that much (though there are some vehicles that are missing colors that they were offered in real life). However, with Forza's paint shop and vinyl shop, you can make pretty much any manufacturer color and paintjob anyways.

And here on ForzaPlanet there's always this resource for manufacturer colors.

I do agree though that it would be cool if they put in some background info for each vehicle that you could pull up in the garage.

Agreed. Turn 10 needs to up the "geek" factor in FM5.

 

[VXR]

Whilst I was away attending college earlier in the month, I got a lot of enjoyment from GT PSP. Not only because it was a nice little sim in your hands, but because reading about each car and seeing the colour's names appealed greatly. About the only thing from GT I'd say Forza lacked and was worse off for it.

 

[rtsbasic]

Whilst I was away attending college earlier in the month, I got a lot of enjoyment from GT PSP. Not only because it was a nice little sim in your hands, but because reading about each car and seeing the colour's names appealed greatly. About the only thing from GT I'd say Forza lacked and was worse off for it.

This. I keep my psp with gt in the office, often when I take a coffee break I get it out and just look in the dealerships. Very well done handheld game imo.

Back on topic, it took me about 3 hours of on and off fidling to recreate the colour of my car, hopefully fm5 will be more accurate in that respect. Does show how the community is such a great asset to the game though to step up and fill in

 

[t.o.]

Every time I make statements here I make sure I'm as objective as can be. So what does paint have to do with it? I thought about the paint chips and manufacture color versus "do-it-yourself" paint. Putting the "pay-by-paint" aside I thought why is it I like the FM4 system better than GT5. I mean we're talking about paint here. I do like reading the names of the different paint options cars have. How many names can one apply to "forest green" is funny to read in a good way. But Forza has no naming convention yet I'm finding it more fun. Put aside the livery options at the moment. It hit me why.

FM4's paint system is more fun because it brings the "child" out in all of us. Go to any kindergarten school and bring a bag full of paint chips and spread them on the floor on one side of the room. Then bring a bunch of cans of watercolors, some brushes and paper and put it on the other side of the room. Take a wild guess where the majority of those kids will wind up. Oh they will pick up the chips and look at them for a minute or so because it's a new colorful object. But once the novelty wears off, and it'll wear off quick, the paint always rules. Kids will put in HOURS at the paint. This is inherit in all of us no matter how old we get.

What's unique about our situation here at Forzaplanet is the fact that we have a thread all about paint which not only gives us correct paints contributed by a great community but we also get to do our naming convention also.

Just a thought guys.

 

[rtsbasic]

Every time I make statements here I make sure I'm as objective as can be. So what does paint have to do with it? I thought about the paint chips and manufacture color versus "do-it-yourself" paint. Putting the "pay-by-paint" aside I thought why is it I like the FM4 system better than GT5. I mean we're talking about paint here. I do like reading the names of the different paint options cars have. How many names can one apply to "forest green" is funny to read in a good way. But Forza has no naming convention yet I'm finding it more fun. Put aside the livery options at the moment. It hit me why.

FM4's paint system is more fun because it brings the "child" out in all of us. Go to any kindergarten school and bring a bag full of paint chips and spread them on the floor on one side of the room. Then bring a bunch of cans of watercolors, some brushes and paper and put it on the other side of the room. Take a wild guess where the majority of those kids will wind up. Oh they will pick up the chips and look at them for a minute or so because it's a new colorful object. But once the novelty wears off, and it'll wear off quick, the paint always rules. Kids will put in HOURS at the paint. This is inherit in all of us no matter how old we get.

What's unique about our situation here at Forzaplanet is the fact that we have a thread all about paint which not only gives us correct paints contributed by a great community but we also get to do our naming convention also.

Just a thought guys.

That's very well written and highlights why gt5's system is also flawed. Perhaps the best system would be the one we have in Forza now with an accurate list of manufacture colours to choose from. Takes the guesswork out of replicating the real thing but retains all the creativity we have now.

 

[t.o.]

That's very well written and highlights why gt5's system is also flawed. Perhaps the best system would be the one we have in Forza now with an accurate list of manufacture colours to choose from. Takes the guesswork out of replicating the real thing but retains all the creativity we have now.

Thanks for the compliment.

Yes that would be the ultimate for paint. And ,if I were them, I'd purposely leave a few out and let the community reproduce them WITH the ability to save the paint to a file and name it. Leaving us a little opportunity to be that "kid" again. Being able to share, sell if we wish. Now that would be ace right there.

 

[Jamezinho]

Forza's paint system is much better. I can paint a car whatever colour I like, as often as I like, for free. That's how it should be. No collecting paint chips which only have one use.

Also, I hate the fact that GT5 doesn't preview what your car will look like in the new colour. It's trial and error. If you don't like the colour it's a paint chip wasted.

Having the real paint ranges and names in GT5 is nice, but in reality they are not things I miss in Forza. I generally buy or paint my own liveries for most of my cars anyway,.

 

[I'm Motarded]

I do agree though that it would be cool if they put in some background info for each vehicle that you could pull up in the garage.

Agreed. Turn 10 needs to up the "geek" factor in FM5.

Disagree. I was lobbying for this back in fm3, however my stance has changed. IMO it would be unnecessary time spent, we are living in a digital age where most people are walking around with the internet in their pocket just beyond a touch-screen. The cars in the game should generate enough spark in people to want to research them for themselves, the internet can & will provide much more details and history than Turn 10 could provide.

Plus we have this whole accuracy thing, which is rife in this nit-picking sim community, too much margin for error when putting these descriptions together unless they are kept short and sweet which wouldn't do many of the 500-600 cars a justice.

I do miss the little automotive info/fact snippets from the fm3 loading screens, however I've hardly heard a peep from others that feel the same since fm4 launched, this leads me to believe the majority just don't care for this info.

 

[HBK]

Even if not perfectly accurate, having manufacturer paints named ala GT5 would go a long way of helping FM4/5/whatever have this nice little touch of "authenticity". This is the kind of detail that helps a lot, and shouldn't be *that* hard to implement.

The fact that you can choose from a preset of lighting conditions when choosing paint at the dealership is also one of the nice little features of GT5. A similar system would be *very* welcomed if Forza, especially in the livery editor.