Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

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Thats a great idea , take away the tarmac and for a second before you notice the shadows you think you are looking at a picture of a real world object be it the car or toy model of a car
1 / If you remove everything that look wrong, it looks right :sly:

2 / As mentioned before, this particular GT5 shot looks bad, period. GT5 can look good. This shot does not.
 
This thread should be renamed ''Forza 4 VS GT5 graphics''

I mean how long can you play that tennis game... Look good, look bad, look better, look worse... if only these conversations had a technical side to them but no, its just mine is bigger than yours stuff.

Just venting, go on...:D
 
This thread should be renamed ''Forza 4 VS GT5 graphics''

I mean how long can you play that tennis game... Look good, look bad, look better, look worse... if only these conversations had a technical side to them but no, its just mine is bigger than yours stuff.

Just venting, go on...:D

There are only one group of people playing the graphics card in this thread, and that's because it's the only thing they have to hold onto. The funny thing is most of the other camp actually agree with them. However, it's in other areas where one outshines the other.
 
Funny how the quietest ones about the pics of standard cars are the loudest when a premium picture pops up....

BTW alot of pictures in glossy car mags don't look like real life, and nor do things like movies... so what?

I don't want a game to look like real life I want it to look like great graphics , there's a subtle difference.
 
Edited by Scaff to add

OK I am re-opening this thread this in the hope that by providing an area for discussion of the merits of both series it will help stop these discussion occurring in other threads and dragging them off-topic.

However I feel some clear ground rules need to be put in place.

The first and most obvious regards the AUP. Every single post will be expected to follow the AUP, any AUP violations will result in action being taken by the staff.

However I want to clarify a few points in this regard:
Opinion is not fact - don't present it as such
Argue the point don't attack the person making it
The term 'fanboy' (including any and all derivations) is banned
Accusations of 'Troll' simply because you don't like what someone says are also out
If you make a claim back it up with sources - fail to do so and you will be asked to provide them
Don't just post up pictures and video without any form of meaningful comment. This is a discussion thread not a picture/video gallery. Offending posts will be deleted on sight.

The staff reserve the right to amend and adjust the above as often and in any way we see fit, we also will operate this thread as a zero tolerance one. You will not get a warning, rather it will go straight to infractions or bans (temp or permanent), so think before you hit that post button.

Discuss away, but play nicely.


Scaff



This is a blog I did on N4G, which I thought I would post on here too. After reading some of the articles on N4G I feel compelled to do a comparison piece because some of the comments and reasons given are pathetic. I'm level 32 on GT5 and 62 on Forza 4, the reason I'm not level 40 on GT5 is because when I was making space on my hard drive for my free games off Sony I stupidly deleted my save file and had to start again. But I think level 32 still makes me qualified to give this comparison a fair go. I race with a Fanatec GT2 and I'm pretty sure half the people who talk about physics on this site race with a pad. I'm not going to talk about graphics because they are irrelevant when it comes to racing games. I will be comparing things important to a sim racer. If you think you are a sim racer and you race with a wheel read on, if not and you race with a control pad. Then your opinions mean jack.

When it comes to physics both of these games fall short when compared to PC sims but they do a god job considering the limited consoles they run on. Both games do a good job of simulating how a car reacts to input from the driver and both games do a fairly good job when it comes to set up options for your chosen car. You can change camber, toe, ride height etc. on both games. In my opinion Forza does a better job when it comes to physics, I can feel more through the wheel. I can feel the under steer building up and you get a good feel of how much grip the tires have. With GT5 the feeling is mute, the wheel has a good weight to it but that’s it, there is no feel for what the car is doing, you have to judge visually and through sound rather than feel what the car is about to do. To me that is what makes a good car, the amount of feel and the connection with it. If you can't judge what the car is doing how can you have the confidence to drive it fast? GT5 is a good game but the real driving simulator needs to concentrate on driving, not on getting the right stitching on the leather seats of premium cars.

Another important aspect of racing is sound, if you love cars you will know what I’m talking about. The sound of a V8, a straight six and a V12 are my personal favorites and a racing game needs to get this right, GT5 doesn't, the cars sound electronic and not at all like the engines they are supposed to be. Forza on the other hand sounds stunning, V8's sound like V8's and V12's sound like V12'S. The tire noise is also some of the best I have come across. You can hear when they are about to lose grip and when you are pushing a bit too hard.

Forza is also the choice if you race offline, the A.I are far better at racing than GT5's counter parts. They will overtake you, make mistakes and generally feel like they are being driven by another person. GT5 on the other hand feels like the A.I cars are following a train track which they rarely move off, which makes for very straight forward victory’s which isn’t realistic. GT5 does include night racing, weather and a really good rally mode which I wish they would have put more effort into because the driving model is excellent. But there isn't enough races to make it a substantial addition the game, it just feels like an afterthought. The night racing is good but the rain effects are poor. Colin McCrea 2005 had better rain effects last gen, again it seems like they just added it right at the end just to get it into the game. Wet roads don't look wet and the spray off the tires makes your car look like it’s made of heat haze. I remember the Tokyo track on Forza 1 which was set at night, so I don't get why they couldn't include night racing in 4.

The selection of cars is poor on GT5, there aren’t enough new cars. The Bugatti Veyron is standard, yet they have made the Suzuki cappuccino premium. Forza's selection is much broader, you have an abundance of new cars like the new Ferrari FF, Gumpert Apollo, BMW M5, 599 GT0, Aston Martin ONE-77 and many more and they all sound amazing. I also might add that this is the first game to nail the McLaren f1 engine sound, which is a big plus for me as it’s my favorite engine sound ever.

My winner is Forza because it feels better, sounds better, and has more cars that I want to drive. GT5 is a great game and if you only have a PS3 then you’re not going to be too disappointed, if you like racing games though, I would highly recommend getting a 360 and Forza 4

With the new 900 degrees patch the cars feel much harder to control and there is now no assist when on simulation mode. The physics feel better now as well.
 
Please read again as this thread is turning into a graphics debate which I high lighted on the original post because its not important when it comes to sim's in my opinion.
 
You do realise that sadly this will make the GT5 diehards think we have lost and we are taking the ball with us....... I know we should take the moral high ground but its hard in the face of biased short sighted tosh that spouted around.

If GT5's premium cars are better looking graphically (however slight) because they didnt have to do all 1000 and churn out 800 ported GT4 cars then you welcome to them.....
Problem with GT5 is that its two games, one part of it is basically GT4 ported onto PS3 and the other part (premium cars, photobooth etc) is just a glorified tech demo ,albeit a stunning one,for what it could of been given more time........thats what erks me most......it could of been....
Sounds stupid till you realise that PD have history in charging money for their demos....

Also with the stunning paint shop tool i'd rather keep that thanks even if Forzas cars arent quite a match for the 200 odd premium cars......
Could you imagine also with PD's budget and time scales what Turn 10 could achieve?!

What they do in 2 years is nothing short of brilliant compared to PDs 6 year efforts...

Although whenever i played GT5 and saw the standard cars and uninspired design levels, i could never help getting angry and thinking:
"I bet Kaz and his main staff have a totally finished GT5........"
 
You do realise that sadly this will make the GT5 diehards think we have lost and we are taking the ball with us....... I know we should take the moral high ground but its hard in the face of biased short sighted tosh that spouted around.

Who cares? If you are trying to "win" you are fighting a losing battle with everyone here. The only "winner" in the video game business is the game that sells and continues to sell. Hate to break it to you but in that department GT5 wins. Whether GT6 will have the same sales as GT5 is yet to be seen, but if you look at the numbers sales wise GT5 wins. As for everything else, a lot of it is preference, personal experience, and raw opinion. There is nothing left to "win", no offense, but this comment in and of itself is "short sighted tosh" as you put it.

If GT5's premium cars are better looking graphically (however slight) because they didnt have to do all 1000 and churn out 800 ported GT4 cars then you welcome to them.....
Problem with GT5 is that its two games, one part of it is basically GT4 ported onto PS3 and the other part (premium cars, photobooth etc) is just a glorified tech demo ,albeit a stunning one,for what it could of been given more time........thats what erks me most......it could of been....
Sounds stupid till you realise that PD have history in charging money for their demos....

Yes, but then again PD does everything in house with a very small staff, T10 pays other companies to do some of the work for them, and their base staff is larger than PD. I wish PD would expand (and they are currently apparently), but I have a feeling getting hired and staying employed by Kazunori is difficult because he is nit-picky about a lot of stuff (and in my opinion is part of his poison). He has gone on record on more than one occasion on how dissatisfied he is with the way GT5 turned out.

Also with the stunning paint shop tool i'd rather keep that thanks even if Forzas cars arent quite a match for the 200 odd premium cars......
Could you imagine also with PD's budget and time scales what Turn 10 could achieve?!

What they do in 2 years is nothing short of brilliant compared to PDs 6 year efforts...

Somewhat agree with this, but again, workforce has a big part to play here, T10 doesn't do everything in house, like I was saying above.

Although whenever i played GT5 and saw the standard cars and uninspired design levels, i could never help getting angry and thinking:
"I bet Kaz and his main staff have a totally finished GT5........"

"Uninspired design levels" Could you be more clear on what you mean by this?
 
Yes, but then again PD does everything in house with a very small staff, T10 pays other companies to do some of the work for them, and their base staff is larger than PD. I wish PD would expand (and they are currently apparently), but I have a feeling getting hired and staying employed by Kazunori is difficult because he is nit-picky about a lot of stuff (and in my opinion is part of his poison). He has gone on record on more than one occasion on how dissatisfied he is with the way GT5 turned out.

In five years they never noticed anything wrong and fixed it? Stinks of the Five P's

'Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance'

It's a bit too late after the game has released to say things like that, as well him saying that he also said he would like to have had two more years. Sounds like a dig at SCEE to me, dangerous thing to bite the hand that feeds you. That said there are (or were?) three other directors at PD to poke blame at too. KY is just the face of PD.

Japan has some of the most skilled workers on the planet, it's stupid to think jobs at PD are unable to be filled to a high standard, with the rumored budget of GT5 it should have been possible to head hunt the staff needed well in advance of release.
 
Yes, but then again PD does everything in house with a very small staff, T10 pays other companies to do some of the work for them, and their base staff is larger than PD. I wish PD would expand (and they are currently apparently), but I have a feeling getting hired and staying employed by Kazunori is difficult because he is nit-picky about a lot of stuff (and in my opinion is part of his poison). He has gone on record on more than one occasion on how dissatisfied he is with the way GT5 turned out.



Somewhat agree with this, but again, workforce has a big part to play here, T10 doesn't do everything in house, like I was saying above.

Well this is a huge failing on PD's part. If they had more work than they were capable of they should have hired out also. The fact that PD is all in-house is neither an excuse nor point of bravado. It's a clear indication of poor management and planning. Every company hires outsource for something. Believe it.
 
I meant the mentality of the GT5 posters is such as to believe they had "won" if you stop people discussing the graphics....

Uninspired design level means the package as a whole is lacking an edge, for example Codemasters have had this nailed since the first Colin Mcrae rally, right through to DiRT 3 (in fact they are almost guilty now of over designing, like an MTV video...lol).

But yeah GT5 smacks of 1980's video game design, Forza is some much more accomplished in that area aswell and it carries alot of gravitas in the whole overall package...well for me anyway.... look at the way Turn 10 designs its event posters, really cool stuff, a nod to Shift 2 again here aswell....
GT5 has always lacked in this department and people will say its not about that, but its a product and video games are at the forefront of the new so as such should be shining beacon for new design and eye candy...
 
Well this is a huge failing on PD's part. If they had more work than they were capable of they should have hired out also. The fact that PD is all in-house is neither an excuse nor point of bravado. It's a clear indication of poor management and planning. Every company hires outsource for something. Believe it.

I never said it was, as a matter of fact I said "I wish PD would expand". I was just stating a fact. Not trying to excuse them, or say that it is a positive thing. I think it hurts them.

I meant the mentality of the GT5 posters is such as to believe they had "won" if you stop people discussing the graphics....

So? Who cares if they think they've "won"?
 
BAM! Now Lets stop the graphics discussion.
UJ9tq.jpg
 
Do you have any idea about the DLC's that have been released for FM4?

Funny because that's what alot of people are saying about FM4. The game is barely 3 months old and already 3 DLC packs and a bunch of little pack give-a-ways and comprehensive meaningful patches have already come out.

I think he may be referring to the variety of the DLC's (the few tracks that GT5 has had along with the cars). At least I hope that is what he is referring to....
 
Yes, but then again PD does everything in house with a very small staff, T10 pays other companies to do some of the work for them, and their base staff is larger than PD. I wish PD would expand (and they are currently apparently), but I have a feeling getting hired and staying employed by Kazunori is difficult because he is nit-picky about a lot of stuff (and in my opinion is part of his poison). He has gone on record on more than one occasion on how dissatisfied he is with the way GT5 turned out.

That's PD's fault and only PD's fault. GT is the biggest racing franchise of all time on any platform, the most successful gaming franchise under the Sony umbrella as well. Maybe PD should not have been sidetracked by all the projects they took on, many of which were not their core business: game development. Maybe PD should have outsourced or expanded their team. But they didn't, and they took on more projects than they could handle. The result... GT5 the state it was launched, major ported content, and 14+ months of patches and fixes. There's still some big issues with the game and missing features that are mentioned in the box (or promoted during trade shows).
 
I'm pretty sure that pic will put an end to it ;)

Have you looked through some of the photomode pics on GTPlanet? They make that picture look just OK.

For example, straight from photomode, no photo manipulation outside of GT5.

wk1wv.jpg


or

click


or

click


or

click


^That is a standard car by the way.

or

click


Just to give a few examples.
 
HBK
This pic fooled me for a sec.

Edit : Oh, and not sure what you mean by "real photorealistic shots" :boggled:

A clear example of the cartoony effect many people say but it is much more pronounced in gameplay due to such highly saturated vibrant colours. That lighting actually makes the car look like it is made out of plastic.

This is how its done (though this guy is a really good photographer which may be a reason too)

aventador10.jpg

aventador2.jpg



I'm pretty sure that pic will put an end to it

MdwQ8.jpg

4702.jpg
 
Have you looked through some of the photomode pics on GTPlanet? They make that picture look just OK.

If im not mistaken, i sense sarcasm in his post. There will always be a better picture. Both forums have amazing photographers on them, not just GTP.

A clear example of the cartoony effect many people say but it is much more pronounced in gameplay due to such highly saturated vibrant colours. That lighting actually makes the car look like it is made out of plastic.

This is how its done (though this guy is a really good photographer which may be a reason too)
This is a dumb battle, i can easily go and find hundreds of FM4 photos that are just as good/realistic. If i did though, we would be in the exact spot that we are now.
 
I'm no graphics whore but I like consistency in a game. If discussing graphics as talking points, you need to see the whole package, not just the highlights and bits and pieces, especially when in GT5's case only 20% of cars on roughly 1/2 the tracks look as good as most proGT folks want to preach. And I think a lot of these graphical comparisons would end if most would just accept and acknowledge that fact. Instead of acknowledging it, most actually defend it and spin it back to the premiums or compare the premiums to some bad shot of Forza. I've already posted my real car (old shot, B6 A4 S-line) compared to the closest variant I have in GT5 (B6 S4) and FM4 (B6 S4) and the Forza version wins hands down. If the GT5 version was a premium there's no doubt in my mind that the GT version would win hands down.

Sidetracking from the graphics, my bigger issues with the standards vs premiums is the features and modes they lacked compared to premiums, 2 big ones which were patched in (black cockpits and wheel upgrades, and yes I loves me them wheel upgrades even if sometimes they look funny). I've said it before, under the right conditions GT5 is unmatched in visuals by any racer out there in my book and I've played quite a lot of racers on all platforms (not all but a lot). Unfortunately 20% is not the norm.

Just my 2 cents...
 
While graphics are an interesting subject, the posting of endless comparison shots is not going to further this discussion.

If anyone want to start a topic on that (i.e. pick a car and compare shots between the two titles), then knock yourselves out, for this thread however little is going to be achieved as a whole by this.


Scaff
 
All these comparison shots are accomplishing, in my opinion, is that both games can be made to look amazing if you're good with the camera settings and photoshop, and equally crappy if you don't.

Plus, photomode pictures will never depict the games properly. you can hide so many flaws, if you're trying a little. Correct Forza's colours a bit, of GT5's shadows...
 

I will never forget the first time I saw this picture. It really had me fooled. I even thought someone went through the trouble of adding the GT watermark to a real picture. If it wasn't for the damage to the rear bumper you could remove the GT watermark and you could almost never tell it was a game. GT in my eyes still has a one up with lighting and textures of most premium models in premium settings.

It's just a shame that only 20% of the game is that way. I would rather PD had taken away the 800 standard cars and built a better career mode with more customization abilities on all 200+ cars.
 
Same here. I thought that LFA was a real shot the first time I saw it. Unfortunately 20% of cars can achieve this type of quality. 20%... Not 100%, not 80%.. Only 20%.. The norm is the opposite of this gorgeousness.

I'm with you on a better career mode but we got what we got.
 
I'm no graphics whore but I like consistency in a game. If discussing graphics as talking points, you need to see the whole package, not just the highlights and bits and pieces, especially when in GT5's case only 20% of cars on roughly 1/2 the tracks look as good as most proGT folks want to preach. And I think a lot of these graphical comparisons would end if most would just accept and acknowledge that fact. Instead of acknowledging it, most actually defend it and spin it back to the premiums or compare the premiums to some bad shot of Forza. I've already posted my real car (old shot, B6 A4 S-line) compared to the closest variant I have in GT5 (B6 S4) and FM4 (B6 S4) and the Forza version wins hands down. If the GT5 version was a premium there's no doubt in my mind that the GT version would win hands down.

Sidetracking from the graphics, my bigger issues with the standards vs premiums is the features and modes they lacked compared to premiums, 2 big ones which were patched in (black cockpits and wheel upgrades, and yes I loves me them wheel upgrades even if sometimes they look funny). I've said it before, under the right conditions GT5 is unmatched in visuals by any racer out there in my book and I've played quite a lot of racers on all platforms (not all but a lot). Unfortunately 20% is not the norm.

Just my 2 cents...

I agree 100% with you. I like consistency and unfortunately GT5 lacks it. Yes, the Premium cars look amazing... but the standards are dreadfully bad and unfortunately the standard models are the majority in GT5, only 200 of the 1000 cars are proper, PS3 models. Maxrelaxing can post as many GT5 Premium car pictures as he wants, it doesn't change the fact that 80% of the cars look like this...

SuzukaCircuit_5.jpg



Whereas, in Forza 4, ALL of the cars look like this...

6722367295_46fe08af34_z.jpg


I like both games, but Forza 4 has much, much better consistency. None of the cars or tracks in Forza 4 look like PS2 content. Forza 4 looks good all of the time... whereas, GT5 only looks good sometimes.

EDIT: Sorry Scaff, I didn't notice your post until now. If you don't want us to continue discussing the graphics, then this will be the last post I make in this thread about the graphics.
 
Same here. I thought that LFA was a real shot the first time I saw it. Unfortunately 20% of cars can achieve this type of quality. 20%... Not 100%, not 80%.. Only 20%.. The norm is the opposite of this gorgeousness.

I'm with you on a better career mode but we got what we got.

I flipped out when I first saw that photo way back. Unfortunately when I got the game I was not able to recreate that just by pointing and clicking. Infact I still haven't got it to look that good. I don't know if any post-processing went into that or the guy is just REALLY good with the camera controls but I guess there's a reason why that one stands out as ultra-realistic and despite what some may think, aren't a whole lot more shots like that one.
 
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