Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[Luminis]

Actually, I'd say it's between Ferrari Challenge (and by extension Supercar Challenge) and Race Pro.

Gotta say, I've never really tried Ferrari Challenge or Supercar Challenge. I'm not a Ferraristi, so I kinda never got into them

Forzafan! The whole game interface created perfect and unique and rises from GT1! For the first time in GT was introduced photomod! First appeared in GT5 Top Gear! Auto School established in GT! B-spec created in GT although it is not very good! PD create the interface for Nissan GTR, with Citroen Citroen GT created! However, Red Bull created X1! View career! The revolution in physics handling car! The revolution in the graphic!

Revolution in physics? Forza has a more comprehensive physics engine than GT5, and even FM4 isn't anywhere near the top of the list when it comes to physics.

Revolution in graphics? Granted, the premium cars are outstanding, but 3/4s of GT5 looks like it's a last gen game that's been ported to the PS3 as a HD remix. Not to mention the performance issues that came along with it, that are slowly being improved, over a year after the initial release.

Also, what have all of those fancy design project done for us? Have they improved the game? I'd say they've done quite the contrary. Kazunori Yamauchi went racing and designed that stuff instead of managing PD well, so we got a half finished product. I can't see how that's a good thing, really. And yeah, I'm willing to say that there is some sort of correlation between Kazunori's behaviour and the way GT5 turned out.

Maybe you do not understand but Forza copies all GT! Forza is designed to wast! This is all glamour! You poke every 2 years, the same product and you do not even know!

Well, yes, Forza initially copied GT's formula and did much of the same. I'd have to say, though, that the apprentice has supassed the master, so to speak. And this goes to show basically everywhere: Average review scores, awards, you name it.

PD do not need to learn! Just so they planned ambitious project, which should took 2 more years! The only negative is the standard auto and standart track! In all other criteria other developers away!

The only negative things are the standard cars and tracks? What's with the half-finished career mode, the stupidity that is B-Spec, the engine sounds, the rather primitive AI, the limited tuning and upgrading possibilities for the cars, the lackluster car selection, the framerate issues, the tearing, the piexelation problems with smoke and rain, the limited mechanical damage, the sub-par visual damage, the sub-par physics (the tyre model, at least), the features that have only been implemented in half of the game's assets (like weather and time change on five tracks)?

Are you ingoring all of that?

Also, PD has a lot to learn. They're human like everyone. They're not perfekt and they could learn a lot about how to approach a project as big as this. Other developers manage to do much more in less time, with less resources.

What tіy talking about? You do prove that GT5 looks worse GTHD! Then you do not speak INTO they spent another 3 years to develop! You do not understand that!

I bet he was talking about GT5: Prologue. Which quite a few people thing was better looking than GT5, basically because it didn't have all the issues that GT5 came with.

Let's see how Forza looks back in 2007!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk-IvPZCLww
And now for GT4 in 2004
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb5ArDCyh_4&feature=related
They differ little from each other in the visual design. Perhaps you saw looked like GTHD in 2007?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EMfPl-5AVI
Any other questions?

Yeah, one question. How does that matter when we are talking about GT5 and FM4?

Give me Proof! No. GT still calculates things GTR2 does not.

Try to adjust your tyre pressure in GT5. Or test some cars with a different tyre width. GT5's physics engines ignores that alltogether.

 

[artboy76]

There are still people talkign of graphics when I clearly stated in the comparison that they mean jack **** to a sim, look at Race Pro all you GT5 fans that keep coming in here there you will find a terrible looking game that is far far better when it comes to physics, A.I and actual racing that the gt series has ever been.

This thread is bigger than you now. Its GT V's Forza, we s can, within AUP and Mods restrictions, discuss what we like about the games.....or any game mentioned...👍

So i'll respond to you that Race Pro on the XBOX 360 was the most lazy, half baked bug ridden, two fingers up to the console crowd from SIMBIN.....

Their opinion in console owners is all that game stands for.....it was beyond poor, yes a good physics at its core, but the rest of it?!!!!! really!!!

it would of been out of date in 2007 left alone 2010.....shocking and it had a disgusting forum and a disgusting mod called 'kaniel' i think.....worse than China that forum....

anyway........i digress....

 

[artboy76]

A clear example of the cartoony effect many people say but it is much more pronounced in gameplay due to such highly saturated vibrant colours. That lighting actually makes the car look like it is made out of plastic.

This is how its done (though this guy is a really good photographer which may be a reason too)

I'm pretty sure that pic will put an end to it

Just been meaning to play around with this, ok so first thing is GT5 lexi looks fantastic in that picture.....it does but then its a prem car...it should....
But the forza effort i thought...hmm everything looks wrong compared...

first thing....colour...the GT5 lexi is different colour....AND the white number plate i felt made a difference...so

[/IMG]


But then i just played around with it...and no it'll never be GT5 prem car, but then again we also dont have the stain of 800 standard cars cause they took too much time on the prems...so every cloud...!!!

what do we think??

[/IMG]

[/IMG]


This is the one: And unlike the GT5 one no photshop...

[/IMG]

 

[Scaff]

Forzafan!

NO matter the language barrier, you just have a hard time understanding how Phenomenal GT project. It does not matter how many copies of games you have!

I have over 10,500 posts over at GT Planet, I've been a member for almost a decade and written tuning guides running to hundreds of pages.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/member.php?u=15439

I am more than aware of GT and the phenomenon that it is, I have an in-depth knowledge and experience of both titles (and many more). I don't think that you could say the same.

The whole game interface created perfect and unique and rises from GT1! For the first time in GT was introduced photomod! First appeared in GT5 Top Gear! Auto School established in GT! B-spec created in GT although it is not very good! PD create the interface for Nissan GTR, with Citroen Citroen GT created! However, Red Bull created X1! View career! The revolution in physics handling car! The revolution in the graphic!
Maybe you do not understand but Forza copies all GT! Forza is designed to wast! This is all glamour! You poke every 2 years, the same product and you do not even know!

The interface in GT is not innovative, in many releases its quite the opposite.

Sega GT had a photomode before GT did.

Top Gear is simply a track. PGR had the 'ring before GT, do that make PGR more innovative?

Driving schools have been around in games for long before GT, the lesson structure was relatively innovative. Its just a shame that GT wasted that for GT5.

B-Spec was pretty much released at the same time as Forza's drivatar.

The cars mentioned are hardly a revolution and as for introducing the idea of realistic physics/handling to consoles, sorry but TOCA has GT beat on that one. also GT as a series has fallen well behind in that area.

Graphics I will give you, for less than 20% of the title.


Looks like you failed to get to 10 and by quite a way.

PD do not need to learn! Just so they planned ambitious project, which should took 2 more years! The only negative is the standard auto and standart track! In all other criteria other developers away!

They had well more than two years and still failed to actually finish it.

What tіy talking about? You do prove that GT5 looks worse GTHD! Then you do not speak INTO they spent another 3 years to develop! You do not understand that!

GT:HD and GT5P both ran at true 1080P, GT5 doesn't. GT;HD and GT5P are both capable of holding a solid frame rate, GT5 most certainly doesn't.

Let's see how Forza looks back in 2007!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk-IvPZCLww
And now for GT4 in 2004
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb5ArDCyh_4&feature=related
They differ little from each other in the visual design. Perhaps you saw looked like GTHD in 2007?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EMfPl-5AVI
Any other questions?

Yes I do. What on earth makes you think that GT4 and FM2 look even remotely like each other. If your going to post please don't make rubbish up.

Give me Proof! No. GT still calculates things GTR2 does not.

Tyre pressure, tyre deformation, accurate suspension modelling - all of these GT fails to do.

Give the following a go, take a Cobra SC in GT5 to any track, stop and then apply full throttle with the brakes held. Then release the brakes and keep the steering straight.

Then come back and tell us why the car behaves like its does. Then explain why that makes GTR2, FM4 and the real world wrong.


Scaff

 

[stevetam]

Its not quite there. There are really good lighting examples of F4 and GT5. But the problem in both games when you don't "hit" the lighting properly, it will always look inferior. This isn't a fair comparison because of the location of the light in F4 at that particular location doesn't bring out the car's reflections well. In addition to that notice the the LF-A in the GT5 image is very well seated onto the track. In here it is not so much.

This is not so much a problem of GT5's or Forza 4's graphics engine, it is the person taking the picture in photomode. Knowing each lighting system and being able to predict where favourable light conditions will turn out spectacular results in both games.

I personally find GT5's premium cars to be slightly better detailed, and the pictures tend to be a bit more "natural". However that is not to say F4's photomode is not good. I find Forza does a better job of action shots and giving cars character. The one thing that really kills GT5's photomode is those jaggies, I've lost count of how many jaggies have ruined good pictures, and after coming from forza I can't stand watch a 10min replay just to snap an image. I would go as far as saying Forza's photomode is superior, however the XBOX file management system that only allows for uploads via XBOX LIVE really puts a big dent on ease of accessibility.

One thing of note is that the results from non-bigshot's still demonstrate more compression than GT5's do. One aspect where I would like to see more improvement in photomode is having the camera actually function as a camera. While I appreciate that GT5 tries to mimic the use of a DSLR, I still think the exposure control through aperture and shutter speed isn't up to the task yet. In this regard I prefer how GT5's photomode function opposed to Forza's settings. And one thing that both should attempt to improve is the artificial bokeh. While I realize it is hard to do well, on both games a heavy bokeh due to a large aperture will lead to a pattern that almost looks like translucent plaid.

 

[drivatar]

GT:HD and GT5P both ran at true 1080P, GT5 doesn't. GT;HD and GT5P are both capable of holding a solid frame rate, GT5 most certainly doesn't.

GT5P ran at the same resolution as GT5. GT HD wasn't FullHD either.
The performance of GT5P may have been better than GT5 but it had issues with tearing and frame rate, too. Noticeable inferior to FM's solid 60fps. I hoped the performance would be improved in GT5 but you know what happened.

GTHD = 1440x1080 (no AA) - Vehicle selection is rendered at 1920x1080

Gran Turismo 5: Prologue = 1080p mode is 1280x1080 (2xAA) in-game while the garage/pit/showrooms are 1920x1080 with no AA. 720p mode is 1280x720 (4xAA)

Gran Turismo 5 = 1280x720 (4xAA), 1280x1080 (QAA, TAA selectable), 1280x720 (QAA) in 3D mode

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

 

[cuco33]

I'm only going to reply to 1 comment...

Let's see how Forza looks back in 2007!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk-IvPZCLww
And now for GT4 in 2004
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb5ArDCyh_4&feature=related
They differ little from each other in the visual design. Perhaps you saw looked like GTHD in 2007?

Here's Forza 2 from 2007

Here's GT5 in 2010, and an example of the vast majority of car content in the game...

It gets better with FM3 and even better with FM4. I also have plenty more examples if you like

This is just on car models and their graphics. Every car in Forza games has every feature, and can access every game mode. In GT5 you had no cockpits for roughly a year on 800 cars. When patched in we saw black cardboard cutouts, non working wipers and different water effects when driving in the rain compared to premiums. Standard cars are also locked out of photo travel mode and are very limited in aero mods. You couldn't even replace wheels up until a recent patch! GT5 should be renamed to Gran Patchino 5. Without patches and bug fixes, GT5 would be the same crap we got at launch. MUCH improved now but still with a lot of faults

 

[artboy76]

By the way i rarely use Nurb'ring in any driving as i hate the place, but obviously used the Lexus to take my pics and one things for sure.........the way that thing sounds on the Nurb'ring is out of this world!!!!!

Sadly same cant be said of the GT5 version.....just sayin.

 

[imported_s_maR]

Some of you wise said that the GT physics worse than the PC simulator! These empty words! Give me the evidence! Maybe you withal it shall in this capacity RAM or video memory? Whether on the processor? Give me the evidence! The fact that the PC like a fool people super reasonable terms such as Direct X 11 does not mean that the console is not possible! As you can discuss graphics standard GT car if Forza graphics worse when on the road more than 1 car? Your Avtovista this **** for fool! Forza Motosport hardly be called a simulator.

 

[Scaff]

Some of you wise said that the GT physics worse than the PC simulator! These empty words! Give me the evidence! Maybe you withal it shall in this capacity RAM or video memory? Whether on the processor? Give me the evidence! The fact that the PC like a fool people super reasonable terms such as Direct X 11 does not mean that the console is not possible! As you can discuss graphics standard GT car if Forza graphics worse when on the road more than 1 car? Your Avtovista this **** for fool! Forza Motosport hardly be called a simulator.

No they are not empty words...

Tyre pressure, tyre deformation, accurate suspension modelling - all of these GT fails to do.

Give the following a go, take a Cobra SC in GT5 to any track, stop and then apply full throttle with the brakes held. Then release the brakes and keep the steering straight.

Then come back and tell us why the car behaves like its does. Then explain why that makes GTR2, FM4 and the real world wrong.


Scaff

 

[imported_s_maR]

No they are not empty words...

Tyre pressure, tyre deformation, accurate suspension modelling - all of these GT fails to do.

Give proof!

 

[Luminis]

Give proof!

Here you go. Read this thread on GTPlanet and you'll understand that GT5 does not have a very sophisticated tyre model.

 

[Scaff]

Give proof!

Carry out the test above, that provides all the proof of those you need.

However beside that, can you adjust tyre pressure in GT? No. Can you show me any pictures or videos of tyre deformation in GT? No.



Its a Shelby Cobra SC at the TG test track, both clips are taken from the second lap so the tyres were nice and warm.



That's the result of applying correction just a little to late and as you can see even with full lock its can't be saved.

What is nice and clear in the video is the tyre deformation, which can easily be seen around the 12 second mark.



The second clip shows what happens if you don't attempt to correct for torque steer at launch, zero steering was used in this (quite literally the steering wheel is straight for all of it).




Scaff

 

[imported_s_maR]

These photos do not prove anything! So it does not change anything in physics!


Sory

 

[Luminis]

These photos do not prove anything! So it does not change anything in physics!

You do realize that your videos prove Scaff's point, no? The cars stay perfectly straight until the player actually steers, right? This is quite visible in the Enzo video. It doesn't move to the left or right unless the fron tyres are turning in. Which is simply wrong.

**** you!

How old are you? Twelve?

 

[X-Power]

**** you!

There is no need to insult people, just because you're losing your argument. You are allowed to prefer GT5 if you want to, but don't make false statements about FM4. They are videogames, why are you getting so aggressive?

 

[imported_s_maR]

You do realize that your videos prove Scaff's point, no? The cars stay perfectly straight until the player actually steers, right? This is quite visible in the Enzo video. It doesn't move to the left or right unless the fron tyres are turning in. Which is simply wrong.


How old are you? Twelve?

 

[Luminis]

You don't understand the difference between a car fishtailing when launching and generic oversteer, do you?

But, my god, the sound in GT5 is bloody awful. Poor Cobra

 

[Scaff]

These photos do not prove anything! So it does not change anything in physics!

Sory

If you ever post in that manner on this forum again you are banned, do you understand. The only reason you are still here is because you edited before I saw it. But be aware that the staff are able to see the entire edit history of a post.

Now how about you carry out the test exactly as I have described it, not post up unrelated videos.

The steps are easy

1. Take a Cobra
2. Go to any track
3. Find a flat part and stop
4. Hold the brake down
5. Apply full throttle
6. Keep the steering straight
7. Release the brake
8. Keep the steering straight
9. Come back here and tell us what happens
10. Explain exactly why this is correct in terms of real world physics.

Scaff

 

[imported_RPM Bibblefish]

^^^^^He won't because he is the same as any other person who owns a PS3 with GT5 but does not own an xbox with any iteration of forza.
The blinkers are on and they're not coming off no matter how much evidence you throw at him.

 

[imported_Chad Esposito]

I actually admire the patience that some of you guys have to repeat over and over again and in good faith the same stuff to people just speaking non-sense in a notorious bugging way. Let them think whatever, they are the ones missing great games like Forza just out of some stubborn attitude.

 

[artboy76]

I actually admire the patience that some of you guys have to repeat over and over again and in good faith the same stuff to people just speaking non-sense in a notorious bugging way. Let them think whatever, they are the ones missing great games like Forza just out of some stubborn attitude.

Agreed......................

Just keep posting the odd picture like this....it must send them into apperplexi.
As much as they like to ignore it.....i wont let them..

 

[imported_s_maR]

Cobra AC starts to spin! But work is not! About thy picture, it only shows cosmetically! This does not mean that it correctly calculated there! The fact that GT is not shown as it bends visually does not mean that it is calculated!

For example for F1 racers are also simulators! Visually they look poor, but work is not! There is also not visually shows the deformation of the wheels, but that does not mean that it is calculated!
And Forza is a model of the wind? He calculated there? In Forza clutch tires when taking off on grass or sand? Is it loses in Forza car clutch of road? He said that the GT is simple physics tires? This simple comment which user! Now let's come to the point of my comment! What kind of physics in Forza you can tell if there is a car without suspension! I went yesterday to my friend and play Forza Cobra AC at the Nürburgring, and tell you what i think! In this game does not feel the road! Car goes like a brick on a flat surface! I have now before you question! Is it poorly constructed road? Is it so poorly executed suspension? Then on that simulation, you say?

Now let's will go further, then I came home and included GT Nürburgring on Cobra AC! Let me tell you a secret on the road feel every pebble each vertical drop! When departing on the grass, the wheels are loose and muddily clutch of road!
There's some one said that the GT sound bad?

 

[Luminis]

Cobra AC starts to spin! But work is not! About thy picture, it only shows cosmetically! This does not mean that it correctly calculated there! The fact that GT is not shown as it bends visually does not mean that it is calculated!

For example for F1 racers are also simulators! Visually they look poor, but work is not! There is also not visually shows the deformation of the wheels, but that does not mean that it is calculated!

Okay, so you claim that GT5 does calculate tyre deformation despite not visualy depicting it. How did you put it? Oh, yeah:

Give proof!

And Forza is a model of the wind? He calculated there? In Forza clutch tires when taking off on grass or sand? Is it loses in Forza car clutch of road?

I fail to understand what you are trying to say. Clutch? Tyres? Wind? What?!

He said that the GT is simple physics tires? This simple comment which user! Now let's come to the point of my comment!

Uh, yes, the tyre model is very simplicstic in GT5 - it doesn't even take contact patch into account and just acts as a grip multiplayer. Read the thread I linked to earlier and even you might understand that.

What kind of physics in Forza you can tell if there is a car without suspension!

Without suspension? What?

I went yesterday to my friend and play Forza Cobra AC at the Nürburgring, and tell you what i think! In this game does not feel the road! Car goes like a brick on a flat surface! I have now before you question! Is it poorly constructed road? Is it so poorly executed suspension?

If you had spent more than a few minutes playing the game, you'd know the answer. Take the Cobra to the Nürburgring GT track or Infineo Raceway, which both are quite bumpy, and you'll have your answer. The Nordschleife in FM4 is poor, which is a well known fact.

If you want to get a feel for the suspension modeling, go to Infineon, which is bumpy as hell.

Oh, and why am I not suprised that you don't own Forza? I mean, who would've thought so, given your blinkered, biased attitude.

There's some one said that the GT sound bad?
[/COLOR]

 

[imported_Chad Esposito]

Agreed......................

Just keep posting the odd picture like this....it must send them into apperplexi.
As much as they like to ignore it.....i wont let them..

What the hell were they thinking when somebody (Kaz) approved this kind of stuff into the "final build", and actually thought "It's good to have it rather than not"?

 

[Imari]

S_mar, your posts hurt my brain. There is punctuation other than exclamation marks and question marks. Try a full stop sometimes. Every sentence does not need to be shouted.

 

[Scaff]

Cobra AC starts to spin! But work is not! About thy picture, it only shows cosmetically! This does not mean that it correctly calculated there! The fact that GT is not shown as it bends visually does not mean that it is calculated!

The AC (nor any other RWD car in GT) starts to spin at all under these conditions, I've tested hundreds of them all with the same results.

Now while your point about something not being show visual could be modelled, that is of course true. However we would then expect to see the results of that effecting the car, problem is with GT5 that's not happening either.

If GT5 weans modelling tyre deformation, the drivetrain and suspension as it should be then the rear of the car would wander all over the place on a standing start, full throttle launch. It doesn't so either the real world is wrong or GT is wrong.

For example for F1 racers are also simulators! Visually they look poor, but work is not! There is also not visually shows the deformation of the wheels, but that does not mean that it is calculated!

Once again we are not seeing the effects we should on the cars, as such the only conclusion that can be reached is that GT5 is not modelling these things correctly or at all.

Tyres do not deform in GT5 at all, neither visually or in the calculations, tyres are in fact modelled very simply in GT5 and the end result is that you get almost zero grip progression, no wander on the launch of RWD cars, etc, etc.

It also show itself in the lateral-g calculations that have been done, the results of which show that a MINI Copper Z can have the same lateral-g as a Corvette on the same tyre type! No matter which way you cut it, that's an indication that something is wrong.

And Forza is a model of the wind? He calculated there?

Wind? Are you talking about aerodynamics here? As both titles are very limited in terms of true aero effects and its something I would like to see improved for the next releases.

In Forza clutch tires when taking off on grass or sand? Is it loses in Forza car clutch of road?

I take it your talking about the 'sticky' grass in Forza?

In which case yes it does exists and yes it is a pain, in much the same way that GT5' touch the grass and spin is a pain. If you have spent any time on a real track you would know that neither is realistic. The use of these 'tricks' on both titles needs to be replaced with a true flag and penalty system.

He said that the GT is simple physics tires? This simple comment which user! Now let's come to the point of my comment!

It does and the rest of your sentence makes no sense at all.

What kind of physics in Forza you can tell if there is a car without suspension! I went yesterday to my friend and play Forza Cobra AC at the Nürburgring, and tell you what i think! In this game does not feel the road! Car goes like a brick on a flat surface! I have now before you question! Is it poorly constructed road? Is it so poorly executed suspension? Then on that simulation, you say?
Now let's will go further, then I came home and included GT Nürburgring on Cobra AC! Let me tell you a secret on the road feel every pebble each vertical drop! When departing on the grass, the wheels are loose and muddily clutch of road!

Sorry but to be blunt I do not for a second believe that you have played Forza 4 at all, I've posted a video of the Cobra and the suspension and its interaction with the track are clear to see. That react is fed back to me extremely well, and one of the areas that FM4 has been almost universally praised for is its feel, regardless of if you are using a controller or a wheel (its controller feel is in my opinion second to none). I will repeat this for the 'ring, but don't really see how that will change things at all.

Now in regard to GT5's suspension, then yes it does react to the track surface, and it does a decent job of feeding that back to the user.

That's not the issue, the issue is in how that combined with load transfer and the tyre model, doesn't translate to the vehicle dynamics. As a result you get tuning that works the total opposite to the real world, you get cars that don't torque steer, RWD cars that don't launch correctly, limited lift-off oversteer, terminal understeer that is almost impossible to correct and a lack of progression from the tyres.

Now the above is from comparing my own experience of how real cars react, under real conditions and to be honest GT5 falls very short in comparison.

I like GT5 in spite of its major issues with vehicle dynamics, however FM4 (while still far from perfect) gets far more right in the physics and vehicle dynamics department that GT5 does.

There's so
me one said that the GT sound bad?

Uh yes it does. Have you ever been in or near a real Cobra? GT5 does a good job of the car at idle, but under load its just plain wrong.


Scaff

 

[imported_RPM Bibblefish]

I'm surprised any of you are actually managing to decipher some of this babble.

Hate to be the prude here but his posts are making my eyes and brain hurt.

• You will post all messages in English.
• You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters.

 

[GT6mebe]

Agreed......................

Just keep posting the odd picture like this....it must send them into apperplexi.
As much as they like to ignore it.....i wont let them..

Fortunately, all is forgotten when you have moments like this:

You cannot do those things in Forza (you know why Nubur....I wont say it because we all know how angry you guys get) let alone drive at night, in the rain, snow, dirt etc. There is just so much more to do in Gt5 than there is in Forza.

S_mar, your posts hurt my brain. There is punctuation other than exclamation marks and question marks. Try a full stop sometimes. Every sentence does not need to be shouted.

Allow him.....not everyone's first language is english. Maybe he is not fluent with it I dunno.

However beside that, can you adjust tyre pressure in GT? No. Can you show me any pictures or videos of tyre deformation in GT? No.

Again just because it is not visible does not necessarily mean it is not calculated. Can you show any pictures of Forza's tyre wear....no but we all know its there. The fact of the matter is it is unlikely you will ever know if it is there or not as you do not have the physics simulation in your hands. However we know Tire deformation is not modelled in GT5 (if it is then just not correctly).

Correct me if I am wrong but torque steer is directly derived due to the differences of contact patches in the left and right wheels. Differences in contact patches in those wheels is simulated in GT5 especially seen in banked corners so it is simulated and there is torque steer in GT5 but with cars with much more torque.

As I have said before I cannot show you any videos because I do not have the means to upload but when doing the above test in GT5 the car does go in a straight line. So it might be sensible to say that FM has a better tire model.

However it would be silly to say that this proves it has a better physics model as there are numerous other variables that determine the driving physics with many being unavailable to test or even know they are being measured. Furthermore the above test is very specific and namely tests torque steer with engines with a decent amount of torques so again this is no justification that FM4 has better physics.

Now I would like to say something about FM4's physics engine. The guys at ISR also agree with me but I find that correcting a car in FM4 is far too easy. (played on 05-01-2012) Granted there is some people here that will say sometimes sims make it too hard to drive....well it is clear that that statement does not apply to any console sims because they are all easy to drive and so that argument is invalid. Look at this video for example:



You can clearly see how much more easy it is to correct in FM and how easy the car is to drive even at full throttle sometimes.

In which case yes it does exists and yes it is a pain, in much the same way that GT5' touch the grass and spin is a pain. If you have spent any time on a real track you would know that neither is realistic.

Lol.....the grass in GT5 is fine you do not touch the grass and spin even in Group C cars the only time you spin is if you are already in a spin or you are constantly accelerating at near full throttle.

 

[imported_RPM Bibblefish]

'Fortunately, all is forgotten when you have moments like this:'

So you're perfectly happy with the vast majority of the game looking like a polished turd?

'There is just so much more to do in Gt5 than there is in Forza'

This is a joke....right?