Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 4' started by hennessey86, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    This thread calms down now - I've had enough of the dig at each other.

    If you can't argue the point without attacking the person then don't post (fail to understand that and the staff will ensure you can't post for a while).


    Scaff
     
  2. t.o.

    t.o.

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    Speaking of which, any idea when we'll be able to upload replays in GT5 yet? Not rushing them or anything but I have some replays OVER A YEAR OLD waiting to get uploaded to youtube AS IT WAS ADVERTISED.
     
  3. Luminis

    Luminis

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    I could start commenting on that, but as Scaff just advised us to play nice, I'll just file this under jealousy and be done with it.

    Everyone? I don't know, judging by what I've read over the course of the last few pages, I doubt you could say that.
    Even if Kazunori was here, I couldn't vent to him, as I don't speak Japanese :lol:

    Anyways, this isn't about venting, I'm just highly disagreeing with your point. If you think it's a good idea to give the Veyron a lower priority than the Prius in a racing game, I'm going to disagree with that. That one doesn't even come down to GT5.

    I thought that was part of the Spec 2 update? I ight have been mistaken, of course.
     
  4. Bogie 19th

    Bogie 19th

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    Oh the irony of that comment.

    Please don't attack me or my contributions here on the Forza forum. That is a violation of the rules.

    I am off to drive my Chevrolet Camaro in GT5. But in PD's infinite wisdom they didn't include the best Camaro ever built, but they did include the Prius.
     
  5. MintBronyCrunch

    MintBronyCrunch

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    I know. The cars in that trailer would be some of those "few good ones sprinkled in" that I mentioned. A few standards look just as good as they do in that trailer, some look slightly worse, and some look worse still, but then you've got the really, really terrible looking ones.

    But like I said, I could've got past the looks if it were possible to obtain them without waiting days to find them in the auction house.
     
  6. omgitsbees

    omgitsbees

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    Hahah, I love you for pointing this out. Yeah I really want that feature as well. Kaz said that it won't be coming after all. :yuck: not enough memory in the PS3 to do it, they decided to waste it on features like weather and night time effects, both of which they couldnt even get correct, so it was wasted effort anyways.
     
  7. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    I am sorry but how do equate the two features. Its pretty obvious to the casual and even hardcore user that a simulated weather system and beautiful day and night cycle is far, far, far superior than the feature you mentioned.

    Also how is the weather and day and night cycle a waste. I agree they may be some aspects of the weather system that is not accurate such as localised weather and visible rain puddles on the track and car however, it is pretty clear that GT5 has the best weather system and day and night cycle combination ever in any console game. :bowdown:

    However, what is a wasted effort was autovista. A one hour experience which T10 could have easily have replaced with more tracks.:idea:
     
  8. Zoom!Zoom!

    Zoom!Zoom!

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    I really love weather and night time effects in Gt5 24 hour race. One of my favorite features of GT5.
    That's the real downside when it comes to console, it's limited amount of ram. I can understand having so many people all working on different features of a game then when it time to bring everything together to learn 512mb of ram isn't just enough. You have no choice but to leave out features that some worked hard on.
     
  9. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

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    Youtube uploads were nixed in GT5 because it took to long to covert the files. Not that GT5 does better. You can upload 1 whole race at a time, for 24 hours. So anyway, I would rather have night/weather than upload ability. There are plenty of ways to capture races and post them, YouTube is full of GT5 races. Haven't found any FM4 night or weather videos yet.
     
  10. Luminis

    Luminis

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    The problem is that both games are lacking some of the things you'd want for a more 'hardcore' experience. in GT5's case, it's the lack of the community features that promote 'hardcore' competition, such as proper leader boards, for example. In FM4's case, it's the lack of rain and changing time. Thing is, the Youtube upload was announced prior to release but, in the end, is nowhere to be found, even though a year has passed since GT5's release.

    The reason, I think, why GT5's weather and time cycles are being criticised constantly is because they share a trait with a lot of other features in the game: They are not fleshed out properly. That's why omgitsbees that it was a wasted effort, because PD couldn't get it right, I'd assume.

    I didn't know it was because of the RAM. I would've expected PD to realise thaat issue earlier, if that was the case. Maybe they just didn't want to aannounce it any earlier, though. Who knows.
     
  11. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

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    So you can make comments like you did about me and its OK? Hmmm. Yeah, start the personal attacks and then run for the rules. Its ok, you are on ignore from now on.
     
  12. Zoom!Zoom!

    Zoom!Zoom!

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    No doubt the weather effects got downsizes in order to fit it in 512mb of ram. There are other console racing games that it's features had to be downsizes or removed because of console ram limit. If only Gt5 was for the PC. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.
     
  13. omgitsbees

    omgitsbees

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    The weather doesn't work because it slows down the games frame rate and the graphics for it are awful looking. It would have been better if it was just not in the game period. Long with the dynamic day/night cycles, which again, cause a huge strain on the resources. GT5 has way to many performance issues, and screen tears like crazy.

    Forza 4 on the other hand runs at a constantly smooth 60fps at all times, because Turn-10 understood that by going overboard, they would have to sacrifice quality across the board. If something would have caused the game to not be playable at 60fps, it was cut. I like Turn-10s direction of do it right or not at all.

    PD just tacked one feature on after another without properly testing any of it or making sure it even worked. They allowed feature creep to happen late into development and that is why the game took so long to make. If Gran Turismo was better managed, we would have had GT6 last year and GT5 in 2008.
     
  14. Luminis

    Luminis

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    When I said that, I was on about those features (both time and weather) being available on a few selected tracks only. That's what I meant by saying that they're not fleshed out properly. The quality is decent, I think, even if they had to be downsized from what was shown in trailers a bit and still cause quite some issues.

    It's just that most tracks have to do without those features. Which surely doesn't have to do with the limited amount of RAM. If it works on the Nordschleife, there's no technical reason why it wouldn't work on Tsukuba. I've said this many times before, and I stand by it: PD attempted a lot of stuff, but it seems like they didn't actually finish much.
     
  15. Zoom!Zoom!

    Zoom!Zoom!

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    PD had a lot more money to spend on GT5 than other developers yet even with 50+ million dollars you can only fit so much in 512mb of ram.

    I remember how disappointed I was when both PS3 and X360 first came out with only 512mb of total ram. Hopefully they won't make the same mistake in the next generation of console.
     
  16. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

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    Yeah, adding weather and night is so easy (just ask Turn 10), they should have done it for all the maps. They had plenty of time to do that, Sony didn't force an early release.
     
  17. Luminis

    Luminis

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    As I said, using that on a few selected tracks only has nothing to do with the amount of RAM in the PS3.
    An 'early release'? :odd: I wonder what you'd call FM's two year development cycle, then.

    But, anyways, I'll bite. what they should've done is do either weather or time and implement it on all tracks, for example. Maybe drop another feature, but they should've finished some of their features instead of adding more and more and more, when they couldn't finish them.
     
  18. Zoom!Zoom!

    Zoom!Zoom!

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    I guess they could add weather/night effects to all tracks but there is one difference between the tracks that has weather/time and those that don't . That is cars are a lot more spread out in those 24 hour races.
     
  19. Luminis

    Luminis

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    Which isn't necessarily the case. It's at least not something I'd assume a game developer would be counting on. There's a very real chance that the cars will be close together, since you're able to play on a track with accelerated time change. A lap isn't enough to really spread the field out, even on the 'Ring or La Sarthe.

    That spreading out is something happens mostly in endurance races. Time change and weather can happen in a few laps, while the cars are still together. And it works, appearently.
     
  20. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    That is an extremely defeatist sounding view whether it be for a game or anything in life. Its not perfect so its a waste of time. Why don't you go say that to the countless of inventors and anything that involves creation. No one gets it right on the first time. Maybe its just my engineering mentality emerging. Also its by no means a wasted effort......as with nearly anything in GT5 as PD now have an amazing weather system they can utilise and improve on in GT6 saving them a great deal of time.

    I mean when experience something like this it really makes you appreciate PD's effort.

     
  21. t.o.

    t.o.

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    Say what you will about Autovista at least they DELIVERED what they said.

    Tell that to the multiple replays I have waiting to be uploaded. Making videos is fun for me. More fun than what GT5 has implemented for weather and what not. If weather racing was all that important to me I'd just play F1 2010/11. The rain in that game blows away anything GT5 could dream of.

    Man who says any of us will be alive for GT6? I know a few gamers at my local watering hole who you'd be surprised are gamers. These cats are up in age, there's no guarantee they'll be around for a GT6. Maybe PD should have concentrated on delivering a knockout NOW instead of a promise in a box.
     
  22. Luminis

    Luminis

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    "Don't bite of more than you can chew" seems like some very simple advice. And one that really isn't a bad one, I'd reccon. In fact, it's one of the very basic facts of project management that I've gotten hammered into my head.

    Setting a realistic goal is one of the key things to make a project work. Sure, doing everything you can and see how it turns out, that's a very, let's call it romantic, thing to do. But, from a business point of view, it's not exactly the wisest thing to do. And, looking at the game, I would've preffered PD to follow that very simple advice.
    Very few people do. However, that doesn't mean that they actually have to go and actually sell the unfinished project to their customers.
     
  23. I was trying to stay away from this thread but couldn't resist...

    IMO, the customization of Forza4, among a number of other features that I won't bother going into at this time, puts it in a another league. With Forza, you can't just look at the car selection that T10 provides because of the endless combination of modifications and paint/livery creation.
    I really enjoy watching online Forza replay's of others with even the same type of car. Each racer can showcase their creations that represent their unique style. I am amazed with the VERY talented designers in the community. Visual damage also provides the clues of a competitive battle.
     
  24. Zoom!Zoom!

    Zoom!Zoom!

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    True but another saying goes it's better to shot for a goal and miss then not to try at all.
     
  25. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Both are to be honest true, however when the paying public are involved then is often best not to use them as unwitting Beta testers, particularly if they are not aware that going to be the case.

    Its one thing developing something, its another to launch it to market too early. That can often do more harm than good, and it may be better to continue its development internally until it is ready.

    I know for a fact that were I to release the training I manage the development and delivery of early on the end user then I would not be employed for very long.


    Scaff
     
  26. Luminis

    Luminis

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    Oh, I'm not saying they shouldn't try to go for their goals. They just should set themselves realistic ones. That's all. Setting yourself realistic goals that are achievable within a reasonable timeframe, that's project management 101.

    Also, I'd think a lot differently about all of this if GT5 was released quite fast. It wasn't. PD had quite some time to finish it. They even pushed it back. It's one thing to miss a deadline or to not finish a project 100%. But, missing a deadline and still not deliviering a finished product, that's something that makes me raise an eyebrow.
     
  27. Zoom!Zoom!

    Zoom!Zoom!

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    In a perfect world games wouldn't be released too early but in reality they often are even against the developers wishes. Patches are now common even on console.
     
  28. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    And as has been said, what if they are released late and still don't meet the stated targets?

    I work for the largest supplier of software to the motor industry in the world, so I'm more that aware of the risks, compromises and issues involved. I'm also acutely aware of the penalties of getting it wrong. One of our main competitors in the UK did just that around 8 years ago and drop market share from 40% to just over 10% in the space of two years.

    Patches and updates are a fact of any software, but if core functionality is missing or broken then the longer you take to fix it the more customers you drive away.

    I've bought ever GT release (and I do mean every the prologues, etc included) on the day of release, never done that with an FM title save for FM4. However given the manner in which GT5 has been handled its extremely doubtful that will be the case next time around, particularly if we don't get a demo. The sole reason behind this has been how disappointed I have been in GT5, not just as a product, but in the way that product has been managed in its life to date.

    Now add in that driving games are the main reason why I buy consoles and we have an even bigger issue for Sony. Again I have bought the Playstation, PS2 and PS3 at launch (and never with an XBox), that however is almost certainly not going to be the case with the next generation. While my change of direction is of course specific to me and certainly can't be seen to apply to all, I can't help but think that I'm not alone.



    Scaff
     
  29. Luminis

    Luminis

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    You are not. GT5 was basically the sole reason I shelled out for a PS3. Granted, there have been a few games that I did play outside of GT5 that were PS3 exclusive, but if it wasn't for that game, I wouldn't have paid for that console.

    Likewise, I'm not going to act like that in the near future. There have been a few developers I did trust in, and ever since GT5, that number has gone down by one.
     
  30. Bogie 19th

    Bogie 19th

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    Excellent, that should save us a lot of headaches here.

    As nice as the Ring is in GT5, it's not worth having such a perfect track at the expense of physics. I would rather they had not put as much time in effort into the track and spend more time on the physics, like Forza has done. I will take a 80-90% accurate track with better physics than a 100% accurate track with substandard physics.