Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 4' started by hennessey86, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    How could you say the game was a beta. Even when Gt5 launched it still had by far the most content than any racer on the market. 1000 cars that handle excellently (yes I know they are standard but some of the most fun to be had in gt5 is from the standard cars.....try the RUF Yellowbird, no aids and comfort medium tires for an awesome time), 27 locations ( not tracks as Forza 3 appears to have have more tracks than GT5....that is until you realise that Sedona has 10 tracks, Benchmark has 14 tracks and sidewinder has 18 tracks, thats 3 locations not 42 tracks. Stupid PR.) and you know the rest of the feature lists I am sure.

    Yes it was released unfinished though however I think that it is the hardcore that notice these flaws more. In fact the public love Gt5 apparently as it is still in the top 20 weekly Ps3 games sold, a year on. The new DLC has been downloaded over 1 million times already and I think that is what keeps GT5 alive despite its shortcomings. The community and fanbase is second to none in terms of size and support.
     
  2. Luminis

    Luminis

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    Because the amount of content doesn't really say anything about how finished the game is. GT5 released in a very unfinished state. To the point that substantial cchanges had to be made after the initial release. And I'm not talking about some small patches to resolve a few bugs. More along the lines of PI points or in-game dealerships. Had the game undergone some serious playtesting, I doubt that it would've taken months to realize that there's something wrong if you have to cycle through the UCD to find a truck for a specific event.
    You need to be hardcore to notice GT5's performance issues, 3/4 of the cars being ported from the last generation console, weather and time of day not being used on even half the tracks and features, that were advertised on the game's box in North America, missing entirely?
    Just like Justin Bieber's fanbase. He must make some good music, eh?
     
  3. artboy76

    artboy76 (Banned)

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    this ^^

    Paint shop / community / tuning, endless variables that puts GT5 to utter utter shame.

    GT5 players , well the fanboi's, believe the hype that everything in that game is even more real than real life driving. Its a hyperbole lie fed from Kaz and its utter tosh and an excuse for a lazy half ar5ed game, the fact it took 6 years to make, i went out and purchased a PS3 for it......and once the ugly standard cars and rubbish tuning and paint options hit me, not to mention the GT5 community and dull game experience......................i stuck Forza 3 back on played a bit of Shift 2, and waited for FM4..........

    No apparent 'sim' can be as such whilst the very most basic of devices for immersion, the in car view, is missing!!!:banghead:
    I care not a jot how great the physics are if all i can do is drive floating behind my car!!!!!

    Thats for arcade games!!! like outrun FFS!!!

    At least i have a blueray player for the Mrs though.......
     
  4. OLDSKOOLACURA

    OLDSKOOLACURA

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    :tup:
     
  5. ShylockHolmes

    ShylockHolmes (Banned)

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    Lets talk Menu VS Menu. GT5's menu is a mess and FM4's menu allows voice navigation with kinect to jump right to where you want to go. I'd say FM4 is an easy winner in the game navigation dept.

    Lets talk headtracking. GT5 only works while in cockpit view and in arcade mode. FM4 works in any mode or view. Again, FM4 is the easy winner here too.
     
  6. omgitsbees

    omgitsbees

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    This is a really cool video, but it doesn't do anything for actually making the game fun to play. I've always felt that IGN.com's review was very accurate, 10/10 simulation, 5/10 video game.
     
  7. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    :banghead:

    How does the music industry have any relation to the gaming industry. Please use some sense instead of saying nonsensical analogies that have no coherence, just to downplay GT5. It doesnt take someone clever to counter your analogy using the same method: "Just like Michael Jackson's fanbase. He must make some good music, eh?"

    Racing is a relatively small market in the gaming world, when compared to shooters, action adventures and even rpgs. Sim racing, especially on consoles is even more rare. The fact that such in such a niche market a game like GT5 sells so well should please all sim racers as it shows that sim racing is increasing in popularity, however it is clear some Forza fans turn sour and hate GT5 for its success.

    I know your going to say it sells for its brandname. You would be correct, but think to yourself in how and why it got that brandname. You might then say thats due the older Gt's but then think if GT5 was as bad as some you make it out to be then why are there still over a million people playing the game, downloading the dlc, a year one. No other racer has that. Surely the "bad reviews" and standard cars would stop people from buying or playing it. Is everyone still playing GT5 a GT fanboy? It is clear that Gt5 is a quality racer, many will agree with me ( not here as this is Forza planet) and that is why GT will continue to sell.
     
  8. Luminis

    Luminis

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    That is precisely what I mean when talking about the features not being finished. Honestly, it seems like basically nothing is actually implemented properly throughout all of GT5.
    I wouldn't agree with the 10/10 simulation bit, though. Bot GT and Forza have a certain amount of arcadiness to them.
     
  9. Luminis

    Luminis

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    I can only talk for myself, but the standard cars are one of the main reason why I'm not a GT fan anymorer. I mean, it does make sense, right? Those who have an issue with the standard cars leaving the GT franchise behind, I mean.
    And then, they make you run endurance races on lots of tracks that don't have either weather or changing time of day. Doesn't make sense, does it?
    See, I'm different. Just like the headtracking example, I would like PD to actually finish one feature properly before cramming more and more stuff into their game. I mean, it's not like weather and day/night are the only half finished features.


    • Headtracking is half finished.
    • Dynamic time transition is half finished.
    • Weather is half finished.
    • Leaderboards are half finished.
    • Track 'editor' is half finished.
    • The car roster is half finished.
    • Race modifications are half finished.
    • Youtube uploads aren't finished at all.

    Now, to mme, GT5 would've been twice the game it is if they just decided to drop half of those features and do the other half properly.

    I thought it was rather easy to understand. Sales do not indicate quality. That's all there is to it, and Justin Bieber is the perfect example for this.
    I'm afraid it's not my fault if you're not getting the point here, is it?
    You're just proving my point further. Sales don't indicate quality. That's all. And why is that the case? Because sales are affected by a lot of things outside of quality. Such as marketing and brand awareness. Which I'd hold in GT's favour. By far.
    For what success? From where I'm standing, it's more than sufficient if T10 sells enough copies to keep the franchise running. I actually hope they don't get to the point where Dan starts to claim that they don't care about the competition anymore. I'd rather see them sell less per game (more frequently, though, plus, a lot more DLC) and keep developing their game further, instead of taking a step back from the predecessor (GT4 vs. GT5 being the prime example).

    Basically, yes. That, the hype sourrunding GT and the PR mashine that is Sony. As well as selling as bundles and stuff.
    Not a lot of competition for people who only on a PS3 would be one explanation for that. Also, people who won't venture out of the GT franchise.
    I'd actually interested in seeing how much DLC FM3 sold, for example. I'd imagine it to be quite a lot of DLC packs...
    Quality is the exact opposite of what I've seen in GT5. GT5 is quantity. And whether it will remain as popular as it was remains to be seen. I'll go out on a limp and say that GT5 did more worse than good for the franchise's reputation. I can't remember a GT5 being discussed this controversly.

    But, to someone to whom sales figures are the indicator for quality, I'd recommend the Need for Speed franchise. It outsells both GT and Forza by a large margin. So, NFS > GT and FM, right?

    I do hope that this one is easy enough for you to grasp at first try.

    /edit:
    Sorry for the double post.
     
  10. I'm Motarded

    I'm Motarded

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    O.K lets compare it to Modern Warefare 3 then instead. Huge fan base; great launch day sales figures; Great game? hmmm

    Just because a game sells well doesn't make it great. It could mean the franchise has gained momentum based on previous performance. or blind buying or even blind faith.

    Considering GT5 sold nearly 6.5 million. Is 1 million DLC sales that impressive?
     
  11. t.o.

    t.o.

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    And back in the 70's over a million people bought "Pet Rocks". I'm sure quite a few of them had kids.
     
  12. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    Common sense. Time constraints or maybe they did not even plan for all tracks to have it due to it being too much work.

    Rather pessimistic opinion considering most racing games do not even have half of those features let alone done properly.

    Again your argument is invalid.....sales do not equal quality I understand your view however Justin Beiber is no where close to an accurate comparison.

    There is a reason Michael Jackson's thriller is the number one sold album of all time......is it got to do with Michael Jackson's fanboys/ girls or maybe just maybe its because the music is actually amazing. Which one?

    On topic, Forza 4 had a lot of advertising, and still its sales are the same as Forza 2/3. Gt has such a large brand awareness because it is very close to the motor industry. It sponsors a lot of events, like D1 or N24 and has grown to be part of the automotive industry, helping create cars and also showcasing them. No racing game has the involvement in the motor industry like Gran Turismo Series.

    Kazunori never said he does not care about the competition....he said he does not acknowledge or compare to them because he wants his game to be compared to real life. If you think GT5 is a step back from Gt4 than it is sufficient to say that you have lost it. Your opinion is even less reputable.

    About DLC, looking at Forza 4 it is clear that what Turn 10 want is money. Charging for stupid things like season passes, paying to unlock cars, and even releasing Ultimate versions are all pretty pathetic. However, the most pathetic excuse of all is DLC pre-planned less than two months after the game releases.

    Why could they have released those 20 extra cars on the disc when the game launched and even if they weren't modelled they could have easily delayed the game and released it around december with the cars. In fact there sales would have probably been better if they did as it is closer to the christmas period with less games coming out. Oh and the aventador, a fan favorite happens to be in the first car pack, even though images of its gauges were leaked several months before release suggesting Turn 10 wanted ot model it or were already modelling it.

    Sony is a PR machine :lol: I bet you do not recall Dan Greenawalt saying that Forza 3 will be the definitive racing game of this generation six times before the game was released and before this generation was even halfway through. What is funny is how he said that Forza's physics engine was on the cutting edge of science :lol:

    Whats even more funny is how Forza is the most bundled game of this generation or one of the most with over 13 different bundles.

    What about people who only play on Xbox....likewise there is not much competition yet Forza still does not make a fraction fo the impact GT5 does.

    I wonder why they wont venture outside of the Gt series.....

    Would probably be no where close to Gt5.......Forza 4 sold around a million in one month....I would reckon about 200,000 bought the DLC.



    In a generation of gaming where fanboys are common, it is certainly common that one Sony's biggest exclusives get hated on by fanboys. Some complainers may have been genuine though.

    :lol:

    Each GT iteration sells over 10 million, GT3 selling 13 million and GT5 had sold 6.6 million in about two to three months. NFS games recently, do not sell no where as good as GT5 and as I said i was talking about the sim market not just racers.
     
  13. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    You see I'm the point at which this argument doesn't always work. You may want to take a look at my posting history and activity back over at GT Planet to see how many hours I invested in past GT titles (hundreds in developing the tuning guides alone).

    I wanted GT5 to be great, I don't care about the standards, I don't care about the cars that made the premium cut (in fact I loved the fact the Mazda AZ-1 is premium); what I wanted was a solid physics engine with a solid range of tuning options under it. Some of which I got (however the lack of gear ration tuning for months drove me mad and made real in-depth tuning difficult), however it was buried beneath what I would describe as a mess of a game.

    FM4 offered a better physics engine overall (particularly in regard to tyre modelling - the issues with which are well documented over at GTP) and a better range of tuning options, add in a good range of cars (that could be better - but DLC is bringing that, rather than just RM versions of existing cars) and a reasonable range of tracks and I was sold.

    You see I'm not one of the 'sour grapes' over GT's sales, I just want the most rounded sim package on a console and right now, in my opinion, that's FM4.


    Scaff
     
  14. Bogie 19th

    Bogie 19th

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    I am in the same boat as Scaf. I have been a GT fan since GT1.....Forza was my sloppy seconds with Forza 1.
     
  15. Luminis

    Luminis

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    So, it's common sense to

    1. Start a project that you can't possibly finish.
    2. Create assets for a specific use.
    3. And still put other assets to the same use.
    Yeah. Whatever.

    I could reverse that, as well. The list of finished features would be rather short, though. FM4 does come witth a lot of features, and most of them aren't as lacking as GT5's. Top Gear integration, for example.
    Why? Because he sells well and the sales could be down to anything, quality or otherwise? Would you prefer it if I used Britney Spears instead?
    Might be down to quality. All I'm saying is, you can't tell whether GT5's success comes from being a Micheal Jackson or a Justin Bieber. You'll probably get mad at me for saying that, but that's why I'm saying sales aren't in any ways, shape, or form a measure of quality: You can't tell why a game sells well.
    Plasterin cars with the Gran Turismo logo is just that, advertising. Is there much of that racing involvement to be seen in GT5? Looking at what they made out of their NASCAR, Super GT and WTCC licenses, not much. Looking at how PD seem to think that one driver has to drive a 24H race all by himself, I'd say there's not much that to be found, at all. It's cool that GT5/PD/Sony are in touch with the automotive industry. Now, it'd be nice if they actually put that relationship to use.
    Just look at what GT3 and 4 were like. They were basically untouchable by what competition was around. They were far more ahead of their time than GT5 is now. Plus, neither of them was released as an unfinished product to anywhere near the same degree. PD seems to have forgotten the meaning of words like 'consistency' in the meantime. Which I can't blame them for, since it has been quite a while.
    If you think that PD is any different, you must be a very naive person.
    Because, having the option to buy all of that is worse than not having these options, I assume. Question is, how did you like GT5's DLC cars, given that they were merely modded versions of cars already in the game, after waiting for them for a year, no less? Oh, don't worry, I know the answer - perfectly fine, and I assume you'll tell me why soon.
    Partially to promote buying the LCE (which has some worth to it, by the way), partially to deter second hand sales, partially because some developers actually seem to care about delivering and finishing a product in time. It's a bit old-fashioned, but I like punctuality.
    Yup, and guess which game is still waiting for the Aventador, even though it received DLC well after the release of the Aventador. You can rage about the frequent DLC all you want, but it got to FM4 fast and it actually brings new content to the game. Quite a bit of it.
    Do I have to remember you of the hype preceding the GT5 hype, when PD was clean to keep standard cars from everyone's eyes for, well, quite a long time? Stuff like "thousand cars" being advertised on TV, while only premium cars appeared in the actual ad? Alö the advertising GT is getting at all kinds of racing events? The huge aadvertising campaign that is GT Academy?
    I suppose it's because most people who've been into that genre have been drawn into GT quite a while ago. The GT franchise got itself established quite a while ago, without as much of a direct competitor as FM is facing currently. That'd lead us back to sales numbers don't indicate quality, though.
    Depends on the person, I'd say. Some, because they genuinly like it better. Some, because they're of the opinion that GT has to be the best period, and everyone who says otherwise has no clue what he's talking about. Usualy the kind of people that played Forza for a grand total of 10 minutes.
    Just a reminder, FM3 had, what, 10 DLC packs? 200,000 would be a damn good number, then, wouldn't it?
    Funny that GT only gets hated by fanboys, not defended and loved by fanboys. Which I do see happen quite a lot. There are even people who specifically come to a Forza centric forum and who's only post are about defending GT5 from criticism, justified or otherwise. I wonder, who's looking like a fanboy here...
    The NfS franchise is the best selling racing franchise, period. Outselling both Forza, GT, the F1 games, what have you. Should indicate how meaningless sales are, but given how you're still rambling on about it, I guess you won't get that any time soon.
    Many of us are in that boat, I'd think... I know I am.
     
  16. MagpieRacer

    MagpieRacer Premium

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    I have not read and don't intend on reading every post in this thread, got to page 3 and realised I had heard it all before. What I will say though is this:

    How on earth can anyone think GT5's sounds are better? I mean, seriously?
     
  17. Northstar

    Northstar Premium

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    So far, T10 has had 2 major partnerships in FM4 with BMW and Hyundai. Both have heavily involved community interaction, would rather have that than a concept car partially designed by the studio that has no real community input.

    3 Discs, that is how many copies of GT4 I went through because I played it so much. I also went through 2 PS2's because it was constantly playing GT4 and the drive burnt out. Than there were the 4-5 times I started over because I wanted to try different paths. I had no problem paying the extra money for 2 new copies of the game and an entire console because of how much I was getting from the game.

    So far with GT5 I haven't really finished it. Not because there is too much to do, there just isn't incentive. There is no car I can only get by doing one of the 24 hour races, no real incentive to get the licenses, no real incentive to do anything really. GT1-4 constantly had something calling me back to the game. That's not to say I never play GT5, but it's not the same "I can't escape it's grasp" type of thing the previous ones had going.

    At least I got a cool model and a nice book.:lol:

    You wanna take that back?

    It's a crappy translation, but it seems it will include the DLC.

    I'm not a fan of it either, but that is the current landscape of gaming, it's not exclusive to anyone, even Sony does it.

    It's called talking your product up, every company does it.

    IIRC GT4 was bundled with wheels, consoles, cockpits and pretty much everything else they could tape it too. GT3 was also similar.

    GT1-4 sold a crap load because they were genuinely great games, GT5 currently is on track to be the worst selling full console game of the series(currently at about 6.8 million, doubt it will be selling another 3 million before the next GT game).
     
  18. Killer46

    Killer46 (Banned)

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    You mean the 2011 Ka...
    [​IMG]

    And the Boss 302 Laguna Seca is already being rumoured as DLC.

    Easy, they either drive vacuum cleaners for a living or have never heard a real car in their life.
     
  19. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    Honestly, I could care less about the rest of your post, but this...this is both counter-intuitive and contradictory. Allow me to tell you why:

    1. Criticizing Forza for having you pay to "unlock" cars is a bit on the uninformed side, especially when GT5 had you doing exactly that. The new Kart vehicles...yeah, they were available in Arcade Mode before the DLC was officially released. You had to pay if you wanted to use them anywhere else.

    2. Isn't PD/Sony re-releasing GT5 in Spec II trim?

    3. Weren't we (and by "we" I mean people playing both GT5 and FM4) charged for new paints? Paints. Yeah...$1.99. Henceforth, any argument pertaining to, or likened to that of "money grabbing" is hereby invalid for that very reason alone.


    It's common knowledge, as Turn 10 themselves have stated, that the DLC is planned even before the game is printed and released. Just because an image leaked doesn't mean the pack itself was finished. By that logic...where's the FT-86 II that popped up in that GT5 trailer months ago. I didn't see that in the DLC for GT5, did I?
     
  20. Shut down :" lips are zipped
     
  21. OLDSKOOLACURA

    OLDSKOOLACURA

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    agreed with LUMINIS

    The reason I bought GT5 is because of the hype and I kinda liked GT4. I bought GT5 and a DFGT wheel. I loved it for a couple weeks and it started getting old fast. I now hate and will never buy their junk again.

    I am, and always will (if they keep it up) a FORZA fan.

    GT5 was good at the surface but became a joke really fast. If you want a "SIM" play IRACING




    P.S. - IRACING is great, I just wanted to clear that up. I am a member and will stay one
     
  22. artboy76

    artboy76 (Banned)

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    Firstly just want to clear something up, Turn 10 as are Microsoft a business. I never saw anything anywhere saying that they were charities.
    People have to get paid to get things done so they sell a product, a product that i happen to WANT to buy, its entertainment and in this world of bills and such like its one of the nicer things for my money to go on.......

    So lets back off with the "Turn 10 just want your money" clap trap, because if someone sells a product and you dont want or cant afford it, then step away, simple as that.
    I cant afford a Ferrari but i dont sit there crying at Luca for selling his cars so expensive!!!

    Grow up.
    Every time i pay for any DLC i do it because i wanted to, no one forced me.:banghead:

    The other point is that the thread is called "FM4 vs GT5" so theres no point in GT5 fanbois comming on here and expecting the same level of OTT back slapping for Kaz and his half ar5ed game.

    Truth is some of the folks who buy a PS3 buy it cause its like one of those brands which you HAVE to own to fit in.

    Bare with me here, what i mean is its a brand like having an iPhone not a HLC, or a Samsung LCD not a Walmart / ASDA own brand. People will buy a PS3 who dont even like gaming!!!
    At work when i say i have XBOX they will shout about PS3 being the best then they will say they own GT5......but these are folks who just HAD TO HAVE IT.

    Like a label......

    dont forget the amazing thing PlayStation did, they made gaming, "normal", and at the same time made "playstation" the genral word to use to describe gaming....like "hoover" and "selotape", thats impressive.....

    But it has created a monster within its core fam base and one which reaches into its core platform only titles, like GT5.

    GT5 was a let down, but its PS3 game and its by Kaz and he races cars in real life, and its called the "real driving sim" so it must be .......right?
     
  23. artboy76

    artboy76 (Banned)

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    You got any video clips of paint drying?

    :banghead:

    Also as an aside night racing is one of my lesser requirements for a driving game, really not interested. And if i wanted to see day night cycles i'll look out my window or shock horror, leave my house and drive a real car around.

    Fact is what it comes down to always for me is that leave the day night cycle and give me all cars with in car view please and all cars premium...simple. For every video like that of GT5, theres a pic of a standard car like this...:lol:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  24. artboy76

    artboy76 (Banned)

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    p.s....this is from forza 2....still better than GT5 standard.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. t.o.

    t.o.

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    WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! HOLD UP!!! You mean that GT5/Sony/PD was actually charging 2 bucks for paint? Am I missing something here in the translation but did you say PAINT?!? Is this real money you're talking about here or some in-game credits.
     
  26. Luminis

    Luminis

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    No, it's actual, real world cash to buy some new in-game paint chips. That's why there's no colour palette and/or livery editor in GT5, one could think.
     
  27. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    :lol:

    You cannot be serious. Please elaborate on how heavy these partnerships were because form what I saw it was just an advertising collaboration between the companies. What you say....you made a livery for a car....yes that is a heavy partnership.

    I will give you a taste of an actual partnership. PD working with Nissan to actually help design the on board computer in their GTR, pD releasing a modified 350z in game which Nissan then released in real life due to its popularity. In fact I cannot be asked to list it all here is a link:

    http://www.polyphony.co.jp/products/collaboration.html

    Are you purposely omitting out the truth, like other members on here regarding the same issue. Forza 3 Ultimate collection had exclusive DLC that you could not get anywhere else apart from purchasing the game. Spec 2 release is just an updated version of GT5 on a disc....it has no exclusive dlc.

    :tup:

    :lol: I am sorry but I do not see PD making as many totally wild and to be honest stupid claims as that. Also do not even get me started on how Dan Greenawalt trash talked PD. I have lost all respect for that man since.....I still admire any dev or designer in the gaming industry especially the smaller ones.


    VGchartz is not a reliable site by any means.:tdown: GT5 was not the worst....it sold 6.5 million in two months. The figures stopped there. Sony or PD have not updated their figures from December 2010....it is now December 2011 so we can see how inaccurate your claims are.:dunce:

    [​IMG]

    Please come back to me when Forza 4 can handle 12 cars on the track let alone 16......it only has 16 in multiplayer.

    Standard cars are inferior obviously because they ported from ps2's. That argument is just a waste of time. However it is clear that GT5's premium cars far exceed the graphical quality of Forza's cars.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  28. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    Are you purposely harping on past events that are, as of Forza 4, completely and utterly irrelevant simply to prove a point that negates itself?


    No, they just talk up features that never make it in to the final product. Or, display certain things (in the Apex book) that you simply CANNOT do in the actual game. Or, how about this...displaying things on the game sleeve that still aren't in the game. How does that work?


    Despite my best intentions of doing otherwise, I have to retort: U Mad?

    Via your recent (double) post: Ugh, Forza can handle 12, 16, or an endless amount of cars on track at the same time. I'd imagine an informative chap such as yourself surely knows how to use the "Edit" button?
     
  29. Luminis

    Luminis

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    And you're trying to show of GT5's graphical quality with post processed images because...?

    Also, yeah, FM4 uses a higher LoD when the car is in photo mode. However, photo mode also hides a lot of the jaggy shadows and pixelating smoke in GT5, as well as the screen tearing. Both games look better in photos than they do in motion.
     
  30. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    If you saw the GIF you would know the only reason it can handle 12 cars is because the models of cars are replaced with inferior versions where the cockpit is blacked out form the outside. Forza does not have 16 player SP for a reason.....it cant handle it. GT5 does.

    If you are referring to the track day mode then I am sorry but you have to be joking. It is simply an illusion of having an infinite number of cars....the cars you have passed or way ahead of you are just ignored or not shown. If it was true then the entire map should show all cars on the track and you should be able to see more than 12 cars at any time.

    Off topic, really sorry about my double post :indifferent:, did not notice at first. Thanks for editing it for me.:tup: