Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 4' started by hennessey86, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. t.o.

    t.o.

    Messages:
    2,414
    AGAIN , I find myself posting this information. The Ring is FM4 was designed that way ON PURPOSE to encourage better online racing. That's the simple truth. For their purpose , Turn10 did a great job of the Ring.
     
  2. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    So its not the Ring, its Ringish? More excuses.
     
  3. cuco33

    cuco33

    Messages:
    1,732
    Don't know about you guys but when I'm on the 'ring in Forza, I know I'm on the 'ring in Forza. I don't think I'm on Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Hockenheimring, etc. It's not 'ringish'... it's the 'ring.. it's Nordschleife.. T10's version. I know I'm on the green hell. GT5's version is better in my book but that's not saying that Forza's is bad. And Forza's version isn't 'copy and paste' job like is being implied. There are details on Forza 4's Nord. This is a personal shot I took:
    [​IMG]
    and these trees don't look like the same 2D cutouts that you see in GT5 on the norm:
    [​IMG]


    I don't get why GT fans always bring the 'ring trump card to play on the norm??? Yes it's a great track modeled really well but it's not the only track in the game and it doesn't paint the picture of the overall game. Many tracks in GT5 are very poor in quality in comparison and look like HD updates rather than a track done this gen from scratch. This is also on par with the quality in the car models. You can't discuss about how great the cars look in GT5 when the bulk of them, 80%, 800+, are standard ports where many have poor 2D texture texture slaps, jaggies, missing filled models, etc. And I still stand by my comment that when the stars are aligned in GT5, with a premium car, on a 'premium' track or in photo travel, no other racer looks as good as GT5. Sadly that isn't the norm but rather the exception...
     
  4. t.o.

    t.o.

    Messages:
    2,414
    It's kinda of stupid to call something purposely done an excuse. An excuse is "we didn't have time so we....." or "we didn't have the talent so we...". But if one says "We felt it was better to ....". It's not "more excuses" it's a reason. And It's the ONLY reason I've read. So I don't know where the "more" part fits in other than to look cute on the internet. It's the same Ring only scaled up.
     
  5. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    Who's watching the trees on The Ring in GT5?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. t.o.

    t.o.

    Messages:
    2,414
    Sure you can, it's called wearing....

    [​IMG]
     
  7. rocketcaron

    rocketcaron

    Messages:
    141
    Yeah I got that. I like the Nordschleife in Forza. A lot. And just to be clear, its my opinion that FM4 is better than GT5 at almost everything.

    Its just that I happen to agree that the 'Ring is better in GT5 and thats it.:rolleyes:
     
  8. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    Is that you in front of your XBOX?
     
  9. cuco33

    cuco33

    Messages:
    1,732
    When you stop to take pics, you start noticing the details more. In motion it's not as noticeable but even the above pic, the trees lined up on the left of the track are 2D cutouts...

    In my book, it's sacrifices like these that allows the dev to make other things work better or look better. But when you stop to take a shot like that it kind of stinks because it stands out more than anything. It's worse with the cars and pic taking. I really like a lot of the standards in GT5 and sadly I can't take them to photo travel locations and the issues are more noticeable when you switch to photomode. I love the mk1 VW Rabbit GTI and every single time I take a pic of it in GT5 I'm saddened by jaggies, low quality 2D textures slapped on, etc. And then when I take a shot of a premium car I'm stunned at how jaw dropping it can look, photo realistic even. My current PS3 wallpapers that I cycle through are all shots of premiums in GT5, but not a single standard. Consistency is seriously lacking in GT5 and I hope the message was made loud and clear to never, ever, follow this suit for any other GT release.
     
  10. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    Its what happens with the publisher forces the studio it owns to put out software years early.

    I'm too busy driving the car to stop and look at trees anyway. That's just a blur going past. To say that is why FM>GT is laughable. Especially when you say that Turn 10 dumbed down one of the most famous tracks in the world. Kaz actually brought GT5 with him to practice when he did the N24 race. And the Peugeot team was running Sarthe prior to Le Mans on GT5. That's the realism many want.

    https://www.gtplanet.net/gtplanets-...cars-dlc-and-the-future-of-polyphony-digital/


    https://twitter.com/#!/simonpagenaud/status/65879830377410560

     
  11. t.o.

    t.o.

    Messages:
    2,414
    It sure is. Keeps me from getting nauseated everytime I glance over at my dust-caked PS3 and thinking about the fact that I actually SPENT MONEY on it in anticipation of GT5.

    "More excuses"
     
  12. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    Fact. But maybe if Kaz had made up his own version of Nurburgring or didn't include night maps or weather he could have had more time to make more premium models. Glad he didn't go that route.
     
  13. Colorshow

    Colorshow

    Messages:
    6
    I've made this point before elsewhere, but if GT5 had come to market with 250 premium cars with the option to download as many as 800 "standard" cars from the GT4 catalog would the same criticisms still be levied against it? I think this is just one of the many things that PD botched with the release of the game.

    It's like the band Tool. They don't pop out albums like Nickelback, but when they do they're usually amazing. Sony and the fans pushed for the release of this game before Kaz was ready. Subsequently the game feels rushed and incomplete; hence all of the patches. I hope that they get back to the old way of doing things. Until they do, I'm looking forward to comparing FM4 to GT5 for myself. Christmas can't get here soon enough!
     
  14. cuco33

    cuco33

    Messages:
    1,732
    Years early? See this is one of the arguments I've read on the norm that PD were forced to push out GT5 and that's why we got GT5 in it's state at launch and then all the patches and updates. These are excuses. There was no need for a Prologue, and PD should have managed resources better by growing the team or outsourcing. PD handled many non game related projects amongst the whole GT5 development. Things like 4K tech demos most likely pushed by Sony (to a degree 3D as well), numerous auto makers works like the GT-R hud, Nismo body kits, prototypes and promotional work for various other automakers, etc. You can only blame PD (and to an extent Sony) for the issues and it's not PD being forced to push out the software years early. PD even has a lot of this stuff listed on their own website!


    I believe GT4 was also used by some race teams, but not because of the 100% realism of the physics or the 100% accuracy of the modeled tracks. It was more so to keep the tracks fresh on drivers minds with a really good system. Some teams use custom PC sims/rigs but the cheapest means would be to use a console and game that does a really good job in comparison. I could be wrong but I thought I read that drivers using GT4 stated it was solely to keep the track fresh in their heads.
    BTW, Kaz's team competed directly with 5 other cars (6 in total in his class at N24) and Kaz was the 4th driver. Pretty cool that the head of PD did actual racing and I do feel some of his experiences carried over to the game. With enduros though you have multiclass racing and driver swaps, and car setups are monitored for tires and tire pressures on the norm by the teams. Most of this isn't in GT5 even after all the updates. GT5 expects 1 driver to do full 24 hr races (4, 9, etc too but you get the point). I think that both FM and GT games do it right and wrong in this regard to enduros.
     
  15. t.o.

    t.o.

    Messages:
    2,414
    If the 250 Premiums were all worth a damn then probably no. But when you're wasting precious slots on things like Cappuccino machines and Nazi Transporters then yeah, criticisms will be leveled against.
     
  16. cuco33

    cuco33

    Messages:
    1,732
    That would have made all the racing event issues and UCD car purchase issues non-issues. There's a reason why the FGT remains on the OCD after every update, because there's no other way to get this car to do the FGT race in GT5 unless you get lucky enough where an FGT pops up in the UCD. I've seen the FGT pop up once in the UCD, early on in my game career when I didn't have the money (nor the xp) to buy the car. The game's structure would have changed dramatically. It still would not have resolved the lower quality modeled tracks though.

    I also think that GT6 won't suffer in quality and inconsistency like GT5 did. The ground work is there so it should be much easier and most of the resources should be spent on modeling the cars and tracks to this HD gen level, premium level, that we expect out of PD/GT games.

    Don't forget the freakin PREMIUM Toyota Prius when a Bugatti Veyron, today's most iconic automobile, remains a standard... :censored::censored::censored::censored:
     
  17. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    I've said this before elsewhere. Kaz and team spent an inordinate time getting over the memory limitations of the PS3 to get the modeling they wanted to achieve. 5 years, $70 million wasn't enough. But to say they should have spent more? I don't think Sony would have stood for it. Kaz wanted 2 more years for whatever reason. Its why the past year has been spent upgrading GT5 to Spec 2.0, closer to what he wanted to release. Obviously you rush out as complex a game as this you end up with shortcuts. I would take fewer premium models over not having accurate real tracks and no weather or night racing. And as Kaz has said repeatedly, some standard cars most likely will end up as premiums. Kaz could have abandoned the game a year ago. Lets see how much more improved FM4 is in a year, or if Turn 10 will just add cars, no tracks or different game play.


    Iconic? It drives like a rhino and looks like a suppository. And the Prius is a popular car, best seller. People like driving their cars in games.
     
  18. t.o.

    t.o.

    Messages:
    2,414
    Yet even more excuses.
     
  19. ShylockHolmes

    ShylockHolmes (Banned)

    Messages:
    591
    Remember when PD tried to BS us that GT5 would be in 1080p? What ever happened to that? Low res with wobbly FFB.
     
  20. cuco33

    cuco33

    Messages:
    1,732
    You keep neglecting everything PD was doing WHILE developing GT5 that wasn't game related, and they never grew the company nor outsourced the work. That's resource mismanagement and taking on way more which affected PD's core business. Like mentioned, it's mostly PD's fault to blame for how GT5 was released and patched up. Very ambitious game for sure but the bulk of content are lower quality ports, from the cars to the tracks.

    Based on FM2 and FM3, T10 will add more cars and tracks. FM2 saw 2 DLC tracks and a few car packs whereas FM3 saw 1 track pack and roughly 10 car packs (they missed a month for their 1DLC/month claim). There's the rivals mode which has monthly community based events as well as T10's own community driven racing events (from paint competitions to racing to photo events, and they've already done some of these only 6 weeks since launch.)
    I just hope that T10 doesn't go on a year from now releasing an Ultimate Collector's Edition with exclusive content for this like they did with the FM3UC. :censored:


    It is a heavy car in real life but I think PD got it completely wrong in terms of the data and performance. Based on Stig's Top Gear lap time with it, so take it for what it is, it's 12th fastest of all cars tested. The way it drives in GT5 is a heavy pig that can't turn for the life of it. :irked:
    The Prius is crap, overhyped, purchased vehicle by the blinded faithful who were milked lies thinking they are doing this planet a great service. There is no racing pedigree with it and the only thing it does in terms of performance is good fuel economy (not the 80mpg that Toyota claims). And PD charged you money racemods of existing cars where the Prius was one of them in their last DLC :lol:
     
  21. I'm Motarded

    I'm Motarded

    Messages:
    674
    No not really. It's just that line is (always) to be expected in these 'vs' threads. It's not a personal thing it's just you were the first to say it lol

    Funny you should mention not looking at the scenery. Then post a photo which has no use when racing :lol: And as Cusso says the 2D trees stand out terribly bad in that shot. as do the 2D people everywhere else.

    I'd love an 110% accurate 'Ring' in forza (without the 2005 Spec 2D assets of course). But as T.O said it was a conscious decision (I have to take his word as nobody ever provides a link) but also one I hope they will reassess in the future along with the addition of the full 24hr track which I'm sure they are considering to add by now. Maybe the 24hr version as the 100% realistic version and the original as the 'playability' version. best of both worlds.

    For sure GT5's ring is nice, but I can live with fm4's for now too. I lap there almost every day with no real complaint.
     
  22. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    Like you were there and knew anything that was done during development. :lol: How about posting links to those accusations of which I have seen zero from you. Quotes from PD or Sony would suffice. Not some forum where someone is guessing.

    And there is nothing demanding on the Top Gear track with its long straights to suggest that the Veyron wouldn't have a top time.

    And like I said, people like to drive their own cars in games, the Prius has been the number one selling car in Japan, no matter what you think of it. Oh and PD is in JAPAN.

    http://www.shiotsu-autotrade.jp/blog/toyota-prius-bestsellingcarinjapan.html

    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...-bugatti-veyron-a-complete-piece-of-junk.html

     
  23. Luminis

    Luminis

    Messages:
    9,294
    Location:
    Germany
    I always love this. You know, people always excuse the issues GT5 has by saying "Oh, but PD has such a small team! And they keep everything inhouse!". Then, someone comes around and turns that whole thing back on the GT crowd by saying "Hey, it's a pretty dumb decison to do that!" and all of a sudden, it's not as much of a 'fact' anymore.

    In my opinion, they either have a small studio, which makes it understandable that they took so long for GT5, which still has loads of issues. In that case, it'd be a dumb decision to not enlarge the studio as needed. They could also have a big studio, because they weren't dumb enough to leave it at its original size, but didn't utilize it to its full potential. Neither option makes them look good, in my opinion. And both could be considered to be mismanagement of their resources.

    This also goes for their side projects. Nothing wrong with a few of them. But, if you cling to those, even though you are missing the deadlines of your main project than that is, again, pretty much mismanagement.

    You can only make so many excuses, you know.
     
  24. I'm Motarded

    I'm Motarded

    Messages:
    674
    I would take that with a pinch of salt. Why? Because Ron Dennis doesn't own a large amount of shares in Buggati. And he also did have a Buggati being launched in the next 12 months on which his company partially depends on to do well. He does own Shares in Mclaren and he has just spent 40million on building the factory needed to build the MP4-12. (Staff not included).

    http://mp4-12c.over-blog.com/article-the-factory-source-autocar-70918918.html

    Ron needs to sell those 4500 cars a year. And by any means necessary :lol: Snide remarks about the competition is Marketing 101. Even more telling is who he made the remarks to.
    'Arabian Business'
    You Sly Fox Ron. you sly old fox :lol:
     
  25. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    Well, I don't know what the situation was at PD. But I am not sure its in its final form yet either and would not be surprised if before its done its at Spec III level with more totally new features...for free.

    What I do suspect is that its easier to make a game for a platform when its the third in the series on that system vs the first.
     
  26. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    Yeah because they never make stuff up on Top Gear. :lol:
     
  27. I'm Motarded

    I'm Motarded

    Messages:
    674
    Where did I say they didn't? I said take the comments with a pinch of salt. As if Ron would admit the veyron was a better car even if it was. He would be much less vocal though.
     
  28. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

    Messages:
    527
    You couldn't tell by how the F1 blew the Veyron away for most of the 1/4 mile? That spoiler deploys at 140mph so it probably was longer than a 1/4 mile. And against a car that's 20 years old no less. So yeah, if you got miles of straight road, its an iconic car, lol.

     
  29. Luminis

    Luminis

    Messages:
    9,294
    Location:
    Germany
    And it will probably be two or more years old, at that point. That's probably when it's going to get its second DLC pack, too.
    So, T10 got that first one on the Xbox360 done, as well. They finished FM2 on the brand new Xbox360, which they had as much experience with as PD had with the PS3 and finished FM3 before we had the final version of GT5.

    So, really, that point is absolutely moot, isn't it? It, in fact, makes PD look worse, in my eyes. Plus, there was also GT5: Prologue, which supposedly was a 'work in progress' thing, but did a few things better than the main game itself.
    Seems like you're mixing up the words 'performance' and 'iconic'. Whether the Veyron is the best performer doesn't really matter, it's one of the most iconic cars around right now. You can ask most people out there, they'll be more likely to habe heard of the Veyron than, say, the 458 Italia, the Aventador or the MP4-12C.

    Also, it seems like you're missing the point of the Veyron. Third fastest production car ever made, insane power and thus, some nice performance, while it's still pretty much a land yacht loaded with all the luxury it needs to please the people who can afford it: Filthy rich people.

    I dare say that most of them would be bothered more by a lack of luxury than by being outrun by a Radical around the TG Test Track.

    The Veyron, then, is a statement of what today's engineering is capable of: Delivering a luxurious car, that's usuable on a day to day basis, well capable to go past the 400km/h barrier. It is a status symbol if there ever was one, too.

    So, really, you can argue against it being a true performer all day long, and I won't even disagree with you. However, GT5 does have a premium Prius, and I'd think you'd be hard pressed how that could be justified in thee performance department, if you're giving the Veyron such flack.

    Oh, and that's coming from someone who doesn't even like the Veyron, to boot.
     
  30. Koenigseggfan

    Koenigseggfan

    Messages:
    55

    One note here : Hammond has stated that he did not use the Veyron's launch control for that race, in order to make the race more interesting.
    ( source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron in the section Reviews - Top Gear ).

    If the Veyron had the launch control enabled, it would have beat the Mclaren much more easily. ( And we must not forget that the Mclaren had the Stig driving it ).