Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 4' started by hennessey86, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Killer46

    Killer46 (Banned)

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    Obviously you're misinformed.

    A game with serious framerate and tearing issues is not "handling" anything.

    Forza never drops a frame with the only exception being view changes.

    GT5 rarely hits it's targeted 60fps...
     
  2. I'm Motarded

    I'm Motarded

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    You say that as if GT5 doesn't suffer from it. Does GT5 hold a steady 60fps with 12+ cars on the track in the same conditions as FM4?

    I'm sure all GT5's 2D trackside objects are helpful too.
     
  3. artboy76

    artboy76 (Banned)

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    "Standard cars are inferior obviously because they ported from ps2's. That argument is just a waste of time. However it is clear that GT5's premium cars far exceed the graphical quality of Forza's cars."

    lol... so you throw that in there casually that a so called pinacle next gen game like GT5 that took 6yrs to make just used 800 odd cars from a PS2 game!!!!
    That argument is a waste of time yet yours isn't?
    You then go on to show some premium cars that look nice on photos..... Every single car in FM4 is created with the upmost respect to its customers. OK theres some errors in places, but the fact remains PD in GT5 absolutely took their customers for mugs....

    800.... 80%!!! of its cars (its a CAR game...) are last gen , PS2 ports (your words)........never mind it being a waste of time to mention it.... its should of ruined their reputation with every single purchaser of that game, it should be one of those massive moments in business where a company shoots itself in the foot and goes under because of taking its customers for fools, but sadly alot of PD's customers are exactly that....

    but the blinkered "GT5 is real driving" set cant see through the dark of being up Kaz's backside........

    pathetic.....
     
  4. t.o.

    t.o.

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    Blah blah blah.... Hold the phone man. Get back on to this topic where PD is charging 2 REAL WORLD DOLLARS FOR PAINT. Oh man I got something cooking for this one.
     
  5. omgitsbees

    omgitsbees

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    Those of you who love GT5 so much, what are some of your own personal experiences with the game that make you keep coming back to it? All i'm seeing are the same talking points over and over again, getting worked up over minor details. I want to see personal experiences with GT5.

    With GT5, the best I could come up with for why I was pretending to like the game, was saying things like "well it has night time racing!" and "ooh wow, randomly generated race tracks! No other game has that!" But that doesn't mean I was having fun with the game, not even close, in fact I was bored to tears. There was just nothing to do with any of this content or features.
     
  6. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    hahahaha what a reply....you couldnt even comment on the GIF :lol:
    You sir...
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Luminis

    Luminis

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    So, you're attacking him for not answering your point while you, yourself, avoid the whole standard car debate, you're ignoring the points that are being made about GT5's performance issues (which make it look a lot worse than in motion than it does in pictures), you're ignoring the points that are being made about PD selling even paintchips to their customers, you're ignoring the points that are brought up about features not being in the game that have been advertised on the back of its box.

    Sorry, but you, of all people, shouldn't be calling him out on that. Besides, I answered the .gif already, which you are conveniently ignoring.
     
  8. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    I am not ignoring them...I just cannot reply to all of them. I mean this is a GT5 vs FM4 debate, but to be honest it is in the Forza planet so it is pretty one-sided. In fact I think I am one of the few that think GT5 is better than FM4 in this thread.

    Answering your questions? Since you summed it nicely in one post I will.
    There is no debate to be had in standard car department. They are inferior to Forza's cars yes but only graphically. In terms of gameplay, I mean physics they are a blast especially some of the B - rally cars.

    GT5's does not have horrible performance issues. It stays around 60 FPS soem times and frequently drops to around 50-55 FPS. Yes it does go to 45FPS sometimes but that is only when there are 16 premiums and it is raining and in cockpit view. You can say GT5 has bad performance when its engine has to deal with so many more things that the Forza engine.
    • 16 premium cars ( not 12) and does not replace models
      Premium cars have working wipers, headlights, backseats, mirrors do not run at 30FPS and the driver is better modelled ( animations of his leg, gear changes etc). Oh yeah and actual windshields.

      It has a weather system that takes into account temperature, moisture on the track etc.

      It has dynamic lighting system, not pre-baked shadows, which few racers have.

      It has more particle effects such as greater smoke output, sparks flying, snow, and rain particles, dirt or sand, and grass blades flying when your on the grass.

      Finally, it has 3D which is hugely taxing for the engine.

      Also you have to take into account that this is PD's first official Gt game in the ps3, where as Forza has had three tries on the 360. Therefore it might be true that their code is not optimised properly. This is true a if any of you play Spec 2 the smoke and dirt no longer cause excessive blocks

    Selling paint chips....errrrr so what....the whole concept of DLC is that it is optional. I dont know if you know this but many people willing paid for paint chips and these aren't ordinary paints. They have special properties, like neon, shifts in colour, different chromes etc. IT IS OPTIONAL.

    Features on the back of the cover not in game..... how the :censored: am I supposed to know ask PD.

    What did you say bout the GIF, I didn't catch it?
     
  9. X-Power

    X-Power

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    At the risk of violating the AUP... you are a massive GT5 fanboy who can't accept the truth. GT5 is an unfinished game, it's not a terrible game, but it is inferior to Forza 4. I'm willing to give Polyphony Digital one more chance to impress me, but after the debacle that was GT5, I doubt they will be able to. I personally think Polyphony have lost their special touch and are now becoming a second-rate developer.

    As for the rest of your post...

    That is an outright lie. This occurs with the player's car in-game and you can check it yourself by watching a replay, pausing it, selecting photomode and looking at the interior up close, you'll find the interior is low-detail. GT5 does use lower detail models in-game and you cannot deny this fact.

    Yes, and the result of that is flickering, glitchy shadows which ruin the games visuals. That is not a positive.

    No it isn't. Gran Turismo HD and Gran Turismo 5: Prologue were both PS3 games and they worked perfectly fine.

    So... you think it's perfectly fine when Polyphony charge REAL MONEY for new paint chips... but you think Turn 10 are being greedy when they charge money for completely new cars? Your logic is flawed.

    How exactly is it acceptable for PD to not include advertised features? It isn't.

    Why, exactly, are you on a Forza forum? You clearly don't like the Forza series and are clearly a massive GT5 fanboy. Let me guess... you came here for an argument, or to troll. If you'd have come here for an un-biased, impartial debate then I'd have gladly participated and I might have even agreed with some of your more rational points. However, all you have done is insulted Forza and Turn 10 and praised Gran Turismo and Polyphony Digital. Your argument is not rational or well thought out... it's just a bunch of contradictory, false, silly statements from someone who is desperate to defend a VIDEOGAME. I'm out of this topic, it's not worth trying to have rational, impartial debate with you, since you're clearly not capable of that.
     
  10. @Maxrelaxing

    He's got 9 posts...all in the FM vs GT thread. Hmm....
     
  11. ChromeBallz

    ChromeBallz

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    Too much flaming.

    GT5 and FM4 both have their strengths. It takes a really thick blindfold to ignore either game's strong points. I've said most of my piece in a previous post, no need to repeat.

    However, i do agree that GT5 feels unfinished. This is part Sony (RELEASE :censored:!!!!!) and part PD (Kaz makes proper decision making difficult). I was rather surprised at one thing though - GT5 Prologue felt like a finished game, despite a lack of content. Everything was polished, even the menus, which is a rarity for PD. I wonder why they didn't take GT5P's menu structure into GT5, with some adjustments it would have worked perfectly and looked awesome.

    I'd also agree that standard cars should not have been in GT5. Either proper premium or nothing at all, this is something that GT5P did right aswell.
     
  12. Luminis

    Luminis

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    One of the few, yes, probably. Is there a chance that there is a reason for it? Well, looking at, say, Metacritic, it seems there is one.
    Sorry, but 'gameplay' should mean a bit more than how a car drives. That's the physics engine, nothing more. Gameplay, in my opinion, includes various things. Upgrading the car, for example. But even if it's purely about driving the car, I can't even drive a standard car from a proper cockpit view. Dunno, maybe you're using bumper view exclusively. However, when I've played GT5, the gameplay I've experienced was dramatically influenced by whether I was driving a standard car, or a premium one.

    So, the standard cars are inferior graphically, in terms of gameplay and, as is the case with most cars in GT5, soundwise.
    Just watch the 'Lens of Truth' video of GT5 and Forza 3. GT5 goes below 50FPS on a sunny Tsukuba track with a fistful of other cars in sight, while in bumper view. Forza stays at 59, dead, 95% of the time. Tearing in Forza? Zero. Tearing in GT5? Constantly there. You can argue about it all you want, GT5 has its performance issues. Granted, the frame rate drops aren't that noticible very often. The screen tearing, however, is, as are the shadows and the smoke.
    • You do realize that that is exactly what I've been saying, right? Cram less tuff into your game = good performance. And I would've liked them to do just that.


      So, GT5 Prologue only counts as an official release when it comes down to excusing GT5's long development cycle, I guess? :odd: Also, T10 might have released more games, but they hardly had more time to do so.
    Wow, so all of a sudden, DLC IS OPTIONAL!!!!11oneone, but when you were talking about the Forza DLC, you seemed to be pretty annoyed, because big, bad MS is only after your hard earned cash. You know, this very bit basically proves the double standards you're appyling here.

    PD/Sony charging money for paint chips? That's fine, it's optional. T10/MS charging for new cars? How ddare those damn, greedy greedy moneygrabbers do such a thing!

    Sorry, but seriously, go and read what you wrote about GT5's DLC just now and the accusations you wrote about FM4's DLC and tell me with a straight face that the difference between your reactions to those two isn't just you being heavily biased.

    What you're supposed to do? How about not getting at people's throat for saying that the game was unfinished when it's :censored: obvious that they are right. Also, you might want to rethink spouting nothing but praise for GT5's oh so ingenius features, when half of them arenn't implemented thoughout the game properly, or aren't even in the game at all.
    Reading is tech. At this point, though, it seems like you're out to start argument after argument, instead of having an actual debate. And, thus, I'm not really suprised you're only catching what you want to catch.
    Yop. The corresponding threats should be easy to find on GTPlanet. I think all you need to do is search for 'model swap', or something.
    I'll agree with most of your post. GT5:p did have a feeling of polish about it that's lacking in GT5. Which is suprising, as I always considered GT5:p, or the Prologue titles in general, to be a work in progress version of the actual, full game. This also shows that the amount of content isn't necessarily an indicator as to whether a game is finished or not.

    I'm also with you on the standard cars. Having a few of them on the track with you makes the game look half as good as it does with nothing but premiums. Not having access to the lot of standard cars would've also forced PD to rethink their car list, I think. We might have seen a better list of premium cars, if the standard cars weren't acting as fillers.

    The thing I'm disagreeing with is Sony being the bad guys here. First of, Kazunori himself is quite a high ranking guy at Sony, which makes it hard for me to think that he would be forced to do anything if it wasn't for a valid reason. That reason being that the cost and time which went into GT5 got out of hand. It's already one of the most expensive games in tthe video games history (number two or three, I think) and the development time that went into it was huge, as probably anyone who's actually been waiting for the game would agree.

    They had to release the game somewhen. I guess that if it wasn't for Sony stepping in, we'd still be waiting for GT5. The fact that the game was released unfinished, then, isn't as much the fault of Sony forcing a release, but more a fault of Kazunori's OCD-like approach in designing and developing the game. Mismanagement, if you will.
     
  13. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    :lol: I knew there would be someone like this here. Just because you cannot accept the fact or get emotional when someone says GT5 is better than FM4 you decide to call them a fanboy. :lol:
    This is a debate right. I joined this forum to partake in this debate labelled GT5 vs FM4 suggesting that there are two sides. People who think Gt5 is better and people who think FM4 is better. If I was not here it would be just a bunch of pro-FM4 guys debating which game is better and coming to the obvious conclusion of FM4.

    Please do not reply when you do not know what I was talking about. I was referring to the GIF I posted earlier were models are swapped in FM4 to manage 12 cars on track.

    Again you do not know what I was talking about. Dynamic shadows require more work from a graphics engine then pre-baked shadows.

    Official, meaning a different iteration....GT3, GT4, GT5 etc.

    :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
    You decide to reply to me yet you have no idea what I am talking about. I am fine with any DLC....it could be the most silliest thing but it is optional so it is OK. What I do not agre with is releasing DLC a month after a game releases, and that DLC being pre-planned.

    True, but why are you asking me....what answer are you seeking from me :boggled:

    :lol: Again, God forbid someone who does not like Forza in comparison to GT.

    Says the person who replies without even realising the context of my words, or who I replied too, doesn't even point out my contradictions and then ironically claims that I defend a videogame when he was doing the same thing. In fact, I dont think you understand the point of an argument. An argument is not a place were everyone agrees and says Forza 4 is better and praises Forza 4 etc (or vice versa). I understand it is a videogame, this whole site is based off a video game....gaming is one of my most popular hobbies and I am not desperate enough to call people fanboys to invalidate their comments about game Z being better than game X.

    :)
     
  14. OLDSKOOLACURA

    OLDSKOOLACURA

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    ^

    wow you are so closed minded I don't know what to say
     
  15. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim Premium

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    Quick question. Do you own a copy of FM4 and if so what is your gamertag and what level have you got to?
     
  16. X-Ray-Cat

    X-Ray-Cat

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    I respectfully disagree. Using my fanatec 911 turbo S wheel, I personally found that while premium cars felt super lively, fluid and really showed off the physics engine. Every time I drove a standard car, for lack of a better word they always seemed to feel "flat" and not as lively or fluid as the premiums. I read somewhere that when originally taking data points for GT4, only something like 10% of the data points were taken compared to what was measured for the gt5 premium cars. This could have something to do with why the standards just dont feel as good to drive (atleast in my experience, Its also possible that Im not getting the desired experience because im not using an oficially supported wheel)
     
  17. Crispy

    Crispy

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    How are we supposed to know, if your too daft to indicate what your talking about? We don't want someone who will blindly follow a game. I understand the faults about Forza, and the faults about GT5.

    By the way, don't try and justify GT5's long release time. Turn 10 released three games in the time it took PD to release one. (Considering you don't count GT5P, GTHD as games in the series)
     
  18. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    As was purchasing the Forza 3 Ultimate Edition. See how your own defense begets the logic you presented earlier?

    The fact is, regardless of their "properties", you were charged $1.99 for paints... That you can only use once, that's "1". If you wanted to use them again then you had to spend another $1.99. Even if you brought the combo pack for $11.99, you still had to pay an additional $1.99 should you want more than one of any of the paints.

    And let us not forget the abysmal excuse passed off for why the DLC was offered the way it was, only to be retracted sometime later promising to do the very thing they claimed couldn't be done in the first place.
     
  19. ChromeBallz

    ChromeBallz

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    Might be a good idea to lock this thread rather than let it go out of hand...

    Whether one or the other is better or not doesn't matter at this point, especially if the discussion keeps going like this. All the important questions have already been answered for anyone looking to get either or both of the games and it seems more discussion is just feeding the flames more than anything else.
     
  20. Luminis

    Luminis

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    What?! The paint chips actually disappear? I mean, seriously? I don't even... :lol:
     
  21. Zoom!Zoom!

    Zoom!Zoom!

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    It's better just to state why you like each game and not to argue someone who already made up their mind. There are things I like and dislike about both games.
    I don't agree Gt5 was unfinished as there are always improvements that could be made with any game. Gt5 is not the only game that had features that didn't make it in the final release. I've seen many games through the years that had features that was dropped because they ran out of time or/and couldn't get a feature to work right.

    After all the problems Eutechnyx ( not as big) had trying to get NTG 2011 to run especially online gave me more respect to both PD and Turn 10. (Of course they have Sony/Microsoft backing them. )
     
  22. t.o.

    t.o.

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    WHAT!?!!? Are you freaking kidding me?!?! See now I think you're lying. NO WAY a company would have the nerve to do this and it's fanbase follow along like lemmings. I mean it's impossible for people to actually go along with this. You have to be pulling my leg.
     
  23. omgitsbees

    omgitsbees

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    You underestimate the GT5 fanboys.
     
  24. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Staff Emeritus

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    Not defending the paint chip one-time use garbage, but there is an effective work-around; duping. Of course, that'd eat up two of your (also silly) daily trades since you'd have to send it to one account, then back, from the same machine. It'd only take up one of them whenever the new update comes along that supposedly makes the DLC on a system available to all users.

    Which still strikes me as a strange complaint now that I'm familiar with the world of XBL.
     
  25. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    They do.

    I assure you, I absolutely am not pulling your leg. There must be a screen capture of it somewhere on the 'net.

    If not, I have no problem taking a picture.


    Really? I was under the impression you couldn't dupe anything from the DLC.
     
  26. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Staff Emeritus

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    Okay, you can't dupe the chips, but you can dupe a car painted with the colours. The Photomode prizes have all been painted special DLC paints for a few weeks now, and I still have a full set :p

    It's still ridiculous, but it does mean you could, with enough patience, have as many cars painted eye-searing neon green as you'd like.
     
  27. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    That's 1 (2 if you know when the trade limit is reset) per day...that's still tedious.

    Why? Why!?
     
  28. imported_JJ72

    imported_JJ72

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    The troll is well fed! Please, no lollygaggin', move along. :D
     
  29. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    I'd like to address the "fanboy" aspect popping up in this thread.

    Gran Turismo 3 introduced me to the technical details of cars and transformed my childhood interest into an automotive passion. I loved that game and played it to death. I was young, but I thought it was perfect. Until I played Live for Speed for the first time, I thought it was the most realistic driving game ever. I went back and tried Gran Turismo 2, and that was actually better in a few ways. So many neat cars, particularly older ones!

    What did the Forza series do for me?
    Forza Motorsport = I hated the slippy tires, the dodgy physics in general, worthless "ABS off" option, Crayola-colored tech-demo-looking graphics, etc. Never even a tidbit of interest in this game.
    Forza Motorsport 2 = I still hated the tire model, physics, ABS-off, graphics, etc...but it was the only game of its kind for tuning and customization. I grudgingly added it to my collection. I built cars but never really drove them.
    Forza Motorsport 3 = Promised new physics, better graphics, and a host of other improvements. I bought it for a lack of anything else like it, played it for about two months...and just stopped. The tires were like superglue, and the singleplayer content was a joke. I felt like a fool for wasting my money.

    You know, I was FIRST IN LINE at my local Gamestop for Gran Turismo 4 on release day. Unfortunately, that was a mistake. There's so much stuff, all of this quantity...and the physics were absolutely worthless!! After the "new" wore off and I discovered its faults, I couldn't for the life of me enjoy playing that game, no matter how I tried. And the whole time, all of that awesome quantity was there, mocking me.

    I felt betrayed. And I never bought a PS3. But come winter 2010, I'm calling every rental store within 20 miles to net a copy of Gran Turismo 5. They couldn't possibly screw it up, right? They've had years to work on it. It's the most anticipated racing title ever. It has a laundry list of amazing features. I GOTTA TRY IT...

    Fast-forward to September 2011. I was asked what I wanted for my birthday. I thought, "hey, wasn't Forza Motorsport 4 supposed to be coming soon?" I had no idea. Its October release totally flew under my radar. I put it on my list, confident that with the Top Gear track and all the tuning/customization I always liked, it was at least worth receiving as a gift...

    Even after the debacle that was GT4, I wanted to believe GT5 would fix everything. That I'd have a reason to borrow my sister's PS3 to play it. I knew it'd be flawed and quirky (c'mon, it's Gran Turismo), but if the physics were the real deal I wouldn't care. I was still a Gran Turismo fan. I'd just been burned once.

    After FM3, I was about fed up with Forza. I never really liked any of the games.

    So why do I unequivocally believe FM4 is the superior game (and simulator) over GT5? Obviously, I'm just a Turn 10 fanboy.

    Ah, you got to this before me. Jeez this thread exploded.

    Standard cars in GT5 do not take advantage of the new physics engine the way Premium cars do. I felt the same thing, and it's clear they didn't get as much time or attention. That's the one thing that really killed the game for me. My garage was already full of older cars (my preference), all Standards. Suddenly, their existence seemed superficial.
     
  30. X-Ray-Cat

    X-Ray-Cat

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    I believe what he is referring to is the fact that there are features printed on the box, that despite being printed on the box, a year later are still not in the game.

    I personally feel there is a HUGE difference between cutting features because you run out of time/money/ambition/whatever (Thats normal) and approving a design for a box with a list of features on it that you KNOW are not in the game. Then the game is incomplete. In my opinion anyway.