Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 4' started by hennessey86, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    A point I stand by, but it would appear that a slightly humorous reply has got you more than a little worked up.



    My words?

    No I'm quite happy to leave your own words to do that. Now I believe that you will struggle to make me the cause of the outstanding replies to these...

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8298519#post8298519

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8298563#post8298563


    And most recently......

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8491398#post8491398

    ...a thread in which you opened by trying to imply that GT5 held a locked 60fps even with rain...

    ...getting rather irate when it was pointed out that was not the case, you then attempted to prove this point using a video without rain to show the progress PD had made on frame rates (which they have - when you don't have rain).

    I don't need to put words in your mouth at all, nonsense finds its own way out already.


    Also would you mind letting us know again how many hours you've logged on FM4 to speak with so much authority on it?

    Or will you simply be not posting again for a while?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  2. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    What I was thinking as well, because it in no way looks as bad as that person is trying to portray it as. My tv also lets me use different settings for each input I use.
     
  3. Tornado

    Tornado

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    I still want to know what the actual point behind posting a video of a car with a glitched exhaust and claiming it was indicative of how GT5 sounds "in a real multichannel setup" was supposed to be if the responses to that were twisting words from the initial meaning.



    Or the actual point behind saying one of the major idiosyncrasies of rear engined cars, which Porsche engineers have worked on sorting out for 50 years now, are simply a result of Scaff's personal interpretations of physics concepts.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  4. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    A slightly more balanced (and actually technical) look at AA in FM4

    Source - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-analysis-forza-motorsport-4
     
  5. Zer0

    Zer0 (Banned)

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    Thanks for the link:
    Vs
    See the differences? that is a perfect example of what I was talking in my previuos post. You alter the reality and end thinking that I said what you said, often exagerated and distorted to your own arguments benefict.

    The rest was anecdotical to the discussion. I don't remember exactly but I think that I was discussing how an equalized mixing(throught 1, 2 or 5.1 speakers) would bring to life all the muted details that get lost in a direct captured video, often seen in YT or put as an example of how dull are the GT5 sounds. The X-530 example just prove how the same sound is perceived "on air" versus the direct videos in yt, and how a re-mix over the actual sounds can improve the result. I think that you get stucked insisting of discuss the word "audiophile" that was just meant as an example of better quality sound, same as better image quality discussed early.

    And again, see the differences?
    Vs
    Regarding this:
    I can stay here correcting your "my non-senses" all the day but I have not the time near don't feel like it. I was not supposed to stay now here in front of the screen writting but hey, just for you.

    Oh and Scaff, you are the one that stated that almost never plays GT5(at least up to the latest updates) and for long times you just booted to test barely the changes and go back to Forza games. That doesn't stop you to discuss to others that play GT5 daily and know every bit that have changed between time to time or have more experience in the game.

    ================================================

    There is another:
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-forza-horizon

    At full screen and 720p
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  6. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    You clearly stated it was an example of a real multichannel set-up.

    Its not. That is not a point for opinion or conjecture. Its is not a system capable of producing true (i.e. real) multichannel output from a PS3. The second part of your statement (the part you put in bold) is irreverent if the first part (that you chose to not highlight) is false. None of which changes the reality that anyone with a good AV system knows that while it helps GT5's audio, it also helps FM4's audio, which makes it a moot point in that regard. Oh and your made-up 'audiophile quality sound' is still just that, a meaningless term you are using to try and justify a point you can't substantiate.



    Yes a comment you made after your implied 60fps was corrected. Which does nothing that change the statement you made originally. I also fine it very unlikely that you would have clarified that on your own, why else would you go to great lengths to point out that GT5 is the only console title that can do rain and 60fps! A claim that GT5 can not maintain.




    The difference is that anytime I want to do so I can, and what a way to actually avoid answering the question (but no real surprise from you).

    However one thing I can assure you (and anyone on my PSN list can validate) is that in the last few weeks I've most likely spent more time on GT5 that you have on FM4 in total. As I chose to restart GT5 with a clean save around three weeks ago.

    What's your time spent on FM4 again?


    Another what?

    Did I ever deny that AA issues exist with Forza?

    That would be a no, and the key difference here. You repeatedly ignore issues (implying things GT5 can't actually achieve) forcing them to be pointed out again and again.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  7. Tornado

    Tornado

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    So, nothing then? Not even a mention; or an indignant claim of being "picked on"? I legitimately would like to know what the "intended" meaning was for at least the first link if it wasn't that; but it seems it will once again go ignored.


    What a surprise.


    And you're the one who has repeatedly used videos of Forza games other than FM4 to prove points about FM4, even physics issues; then defended the practice when called on it.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  8. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    I know your hopeful for an explanation from him.. But come one its been three months, I thinks past point to assume that you'll ever get one :lol:

    On a side note, I'm sick of editing my iPhones automatic corrections, so just deal with it I guess
     
  9. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    Well it is Scaff's personal interpretations of physics concepts and it is quite flawed in the case you linked. It should be quite easy to understand why; you don't even have to be a vehicle dynamics expert to figure that one out so I will see if someone can figure out why. You don't even need to know anything about GT5, just reality is enough to know why and should be quite obvious.
     
  10. Tornado

    Tornado

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    How about you enlighten us instead. It's so obvious, so you shouldn't have any trouble; and Zer0 certainly doesn't seem to want to explain it.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2013
  11. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Actually its not my personal interpretation of the physics involved, a rear engine car under acceleration will initially understeer while cornering, that's not a personal interpretation of anything.

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7188635

    Its based on the fundamental basics of vehicle dynamics, including load transfer and the amount of grip created by the mU value and load on the tyres (front vs the rear) and the slip angles (a product of overall vehicle yaw and individual tyre yaw).

    I've cited numerous sources for this one (including Porsche themselves - but what would they know), provided my own experience (which of course is worthless in the face of your zero experience) and explained exactly how the physics underlying it all works.

    To counter this you have provided nothing at all.

    So make your next post a detailed explanation of exactly how the physics involved work, detailing what forces are at work to illustrate how a RR car will not understeer when cornering under acceleration. Oh and please be sure to cite the sources you use.

    Please note that I am asking you to do nothing more than I have already done.
     
  12. Lock2Lock

    Lock2Lock Premium

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    Scaff, you are talking about how the CTR Yellowbird should under steer on initiation to the corner right? And not with the throttle wide open right?
     
  13. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    I'm talking about all RR cars behaviour on a steady increase of throttle. What I'm after from SA is not a link to conjecture but a detailed breakdown of why that component handling trait should not be understeer, and with many RR cars out will remain the dominant trait even on a wide open throttle.
     
  14. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    You explain it rather well!
     
  15. avens

    avens

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    Only problem now is I want to read that whole book. Very engaging writing style.
     
  16. shved111

    shved111

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  17. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    What does that video prove?

    Forza has some silly exploits as well, some of which have been carried from as far back as the original.
     
  18. SlyNine

    SlyNine

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    Ya, but at that point Forza's minor aliasing problems should be small compared to the scan line mismatches and blurry stretched frames. This sounds like a hideous way of fixing a problem, in my opinion.
     
  19. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    None of that happen on my TV, even my brother couldn't make out the difference with 100% screen + just scan on the TV at 1080i VS 94/96% + 16x9 at 1080i. The TV might have good upscaling.
     
  20. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Guys, if you're noticing or seeing too many jaggies in FM4, you need to adjust your screen; either tone down the sharpness, sit farther away from the screen, or use edge enhancements/blurring, to see if that helps. Though I'm not a fan of using any kind of enhancements, while gaming.

    I sit about 6-8 feet from my 40" screen, and the jaggies are not noticeable, or anything to complain about. Now, if you're expecting to get the same fidelity as PC games, then friend.. you're in the wrong league!

    Also, make sure you're using your TV's native resolution, and have 1:1 pixel mapping enabled. Essentials, to getting the most out of your TV.
     
  21. rtsbasic

    rtsbasic

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    Just to add, there's so many outputs the 360 can use, it's difficult to say what's best for picture quality. Eg. My living room 52" plasma is great with hdmi, but my desk 32" which is much higher specification and what I use with my wheel shows a far better picture through a vga cable. Possibly as it processes full 4:4:4 croma through vga. No doubt GT5 has better anti aliasing, Forza really prefers a slightly softer picture to really enjoy. It's much more particular to the tv's calibration as well, owing to its wider use of HDR in the lighting I think. Far more sensitive to black/white crush than practically any other racing game I'm aware of.

    1:1 pixel mapping and native res are a great place to start :)
     
  22. Stephanos82

    Stephanos82

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    I haven't read all 137 pages but all I want to say in responce to some comments is Fanboyism does not help at all! Why do some people (don't want to mention names) persist that either on of the two titles is faultless! By doing that you hurt the same game you think you are supporting!
    I love the GT series, and I will buy gt6 no matter what, but that doesn't change the fact that some things about it are totally off! (progression from grip to slip, the fact that there's no tyre pressure adjustment, braking and abs, clutch ..etcetc ! ) -> my main complaint with the GT series bring the tyre physics - sadly nothing has changed in gt6 demo IMO! (love the new suspension)
    Now Forza in the other hand, I find quite LFS-ish and I consider to be much higher in my sim list than Gt! The only reason why I might not buy F5 is financial difficulties!
    Please don't hate! My main point is, if we do make it clear that we want our beloved title to become a real sim, we need to make ourselves heard!
    Lots of respect to Scaff - I'm one of your biggest supporters - I love how you explain things related to the two games! Keep up the good work!
     
  23. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    @Stephanos82: :cheers:

    Have you ever heard of Enthusia Professional Racing? If you like Live for Speed and you have a Playstation 2, you owe it to yourself to give EPR a try. :tup: To this day it remains the closest thing to LFS for consoles that I've ever played. Like GT/Forza, it has a bunch of licensed cars, and the track list includes the Nürburgring and Tsukuba (the rest are fictional), which certainly sets it apart from LFS.
     
  24. Tornado

    Tornado

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    Wolfe has provided more advertising for Enthusia in the intervening years than Konami did when it actually came out.

    :p
     
  25. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    Bah. I save it for individuals I'm pretty certain would enjoy it. So I've not only done more advertising, I'm better at targeting it. :p

    There's no point in recommending EPR to someone who's solidly convinced that either Forza or Gran Turismo is a perfect simulator. Which they're not. There, I'm on topic. :sly:
     
  26. Bellus505

    Bellus505 (Banned)

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    I prefer Forza 4 and here is why.

    What Forza 4 Does better

    Better Sound
    More Car Variety
    Better Damage Modeling
    Cars actually react when hit (may not matter to some people)
    Player made Paint Designs
    Better Multiplayer
    More Tuning optoins/customization options for added exterior components to your car

    What GT5 Does better

    Weather for every track
    Course editor
    Better tracks
    Night Racing

    As for graphics, the difference is very small. I think they are about equal.

    http://kotaku.com/5852641/which-looks-better-gran-turismo-5-or-forza-4/


    Forza 4 is better than GT5 in more aspects.
     
  27. iRevelationz

    iRevelationz

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    I'll try to help with any flaming issues.
     
  28. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

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    It was fairly obvious that it was his opinion. Although, the weather thing I understand.
     
  29. iRevelationz

    iRevelationz

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    True, but the last statement "Forza 4 is better than GT5 in more aspects" could've caused some confusion.

    I don't know where all GT5 tracks having weather came from.
     
  30. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    To add a bit to what ImaRobot said, Bellus505 did preface his post with, "I prefer Forza 4 and here is why." :lol:

    Just picking on you, iRevelationz. As can be seen from the rules for the thread in the OP, opinions presented as fact are a recurring problem for this sort of topic. :cheers: