Forza 5 physics vs GT6 аnd other sims

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Fezz_ST
Clio Sport and Honda Fit, haven't driven any MR cars, I don't believe they would suffer the degree of Lift off oversteer that an FF car would, since you know, there is a much greater weight over the rear axle.
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MR cars are known to have a more violent lift-off steer especially if you mishandle the car, should be easy to see in GT6.
 
Saidur_Ali
MR cars are known to have a more violent lift-off steer especially if you mishandle the car, should be easy to see in GT6.
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But you shouldn't have to mishandle the car, it should happen because of physics, not because you man handled it to do so
 
Saidur_Ali
You don't need to manhandle car for it to do so.
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Things I've learned about GT over the years is it represents real life. If you put cars in ridiculous situations. It's like the sounds, if you spend another grand on surround sound they become half bad.
 
Question: I drove Forza 4 a lot, and found almost all stock FF cars to have huge lift off oversteer, to the point that it felt heavily exaggerated to me (driving smoothly with a wheel). Has Forza 5 changed this behaviour in any way?
 
I don't believe it was over exaggerated, you have to remember that you're on the limit when on track, no where near what you would be on the road, enter the corner properly (downshifting and braking in a straight line, slow in fast out) and you'll not get the slightest hint of lift off oversteer.

A good setup would also eliminate this as shown in this video I made a while ago

 
Fezz_ST
What a ridiculous statement, go on.....tell us how GT does a better job if you're just going to come off with generic statements and not explain why you believe it's wrong
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what do you want me to explain, most cars feel the same way like they float not stick.

I struggle to lose the rear in real life yet in the game every turn is as if its formula d, supra has no grip and feel like a boat. I dont know what mkiv they based their physics on but I can guarantee you its not reality based.

The supra feels like its suspension is made of spaghetti, lifts way to much and time you touch the steering.

The car handles like a ****** old muscle car nothing remotely close to reality, even in the rain in a empty parking lot she does not want to lose grip. I used to swing the ass on my is300 on any rain or snow day it was wicked fun losing the tail. I cant do it in the sups, she refuses.

The car is hell bent on maintaining grip, no surprise really in testing she beat the 3000gt corvettezr1 300zx Viper and rx7 and 911, beat then on the slalom and skidpad.
 
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King1982
No. He starts of with he hates forza, then the old rubbish 'floaty' excuse comes out and then we all know what time it is now dont we?
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lol lack reading comprehension.

I plainly said I hate its physics, I actually own F5 limited ed $80 and enjoy the hell out if it.
 
Imari
To be honest, I had the same thought the moment I got to "more arcade than sim".

That accusation can't rightly be levelled at either game, and to do so is a pretty strong indication that the person making it is not thinking particularly critically about what they're feeling from the games.

"Floaty" is another slightly dodgy one. It's used fairly generically as a "car don't feel right" sort of thing, ignoring the fact that real road cars when pushed hard do get a bit floaty. The combination of soft suspension, lower tyre pressures, relatively high ride heights and disconnected steering feel (by definition if you're playing with a controller you have no steering feel) mean that a car *should* feel at least a little floaty.

Couple this with the known fact that most of GT's tyres are far, far too grippy for any reasonable road tyre and there's very little substance to the argument presented at all. It may be a knowing troll, or it may simply be a poor attempt to explain what the user is feeling without a proper understanding of what is "correct".
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Hey if any of you actually can compare a car in GT6 and F5 to reality then please feel free. GTs overly grippy tires better simulate what the Supra does in reality then F5 interpretation of the car, it just is that simple.

And I will shat talk either game as much as i see fit, given i am a owner of both and reserve every right to point out their deficiencies. And iv bitched about GT PD and that nissan fanboy KAz plenty.
 
MKVSupra
The car is hell bent on maintaining grip, no surprise really in testing she beat the 3000gt corvettezr1 300zx Viper and rx7 and 911, best then on the slalom and skidpad.
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Have you got any links for that? I'd like to see.

Particularly the FD RX7 and the 911 are renowned drivers cars. Supras are amazing value for what they are, they go like stink and handle remarkably well but I'd be surprised if stock and on similar tyres the Supra substantially outperformed all those cars. If only for the simple reason that the Corvette and the 911 have far more rubber on the road with wider tyres.

And I'm sorry, but if you can't get the back coming around in your Supra in real life you're doing something wrong. I can get the back coming around in a Miata. It's tough and I have to be overdriving it pretty hard, but it can be done. I've looped it a couple of times going too hard through a corner (on a track day, before anyone asks). Depending on your model, you've got between two and three times the power to work with that I have. Surely it's possible.

Edit: You may want to use the edit button instead of multiple posting, the mods tend to get uppity. :)
 
Imari
Have you got any links for that? I'd like to see.

Particularly the FD RX7 and the 911 are renowned drivers cars. Supras are amazing value for what they are, they go like stink and handle remarkably well but I'd be surprised if stock and on similar tyres the Supra substantially outperformed all those cars. If only for the simple reason that the Corvette and the 911 have far more rubber on the road with wider tyres.

And I'm sorry, but if you can't get the back coming around in your Supra in real life you're doing something wrong. I can get the back coming around in a Miata. It's tough and I have to be overdriving it pretty hard, but it can be done. I've looped it a couple of times going too hard through a corner (on a track day, before anyone asks). Depending on your model, you've got between two and three times the power to work with that I have. Surely it's possible.

Edit: You may want to use the edit button instead of multiple posting, the mods tend to get uppity. :)
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http://i41.tinypic.com/2hheqro.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/1zvsev7.jpg

add the nsx to the list of victims.

Car wants to grip nothing wrong with that, its no 800hp beast. To many people opinions of the supra are based of high hp monsters who's vids are all over the net.
 
Fezz_ST
I don't believe it was over exaggerated, you have to remember that you're on the limit when on track, no where near what you would be on the road, enter the corner properly (downshifting and braking in a straight line, slow in fast out) and you'll not get the slightest hint of lift off oversteer.

A good setup would also eliminate this as shown in this video I made a while ago

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Yes, a good setup can cure the lift off oversteer, but I was finding the propensity of FF cars in the game is to oversteer quite dramatically as stock, to the extent that I can't believe they would do that in real life as it would be very unsafe.

Lift off oversteer is only supposed to happen with exaggerated release of the throttle while making aggressive steering movements. I don't expect to get it when smoothly releasing the throttle, especially when left-foot braking and overlapping pedal use. But even under those conditions, the oversteer is very present unless you really only brake in a straight line. That's why I feel it's exaggerated.

Am I being unrealistic in my expectations?
 
MKVSupra
http://i41.tinypic.com/2hheqro.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/1zvsev7.jpg

add the nsx to the list of victims.

Car wants to grip nothing wrong with that, its no 800hp beast. To many people opinions of the supra are based of high hp monsters who's vids are all over the net.
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Fair enough, I assumed modernish, ~2000 911 and ZR1 (somewhat foolishly), not late 80's models. With all cars available in 1993, yeah there's probably nothing that can beat the Supra. It'd still be interested to see what tyres the cars were on, but you can't have everything. :)

I maintain you should be able to get it loose if you want to though. No car is immune to weight transfer. Brake hard, turn in sharply and plant your foot and any car will go around.
 
Imari
Fair enough, I assumed modernish, ~2000 911 and ZR1 (somewhat foolishly), not late 80's models. With all cars available in 1993, yeah there's probably nothing that can beat the Supra. It'd still be interested to see what tyres the cars were on, but you can't have everything. :)

I maintain you should be able to get it loose if you want to though. No car is immune to weight transfer. Brake hard, turn in sharply and plant your foot and any car will go around.
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Car is not set up for that, though I got to look for my fun in the rain vids:D.
 
MKVSupra
http://i41.tinypic.com/2hheqro.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/1zvsev7.jpg

add the nsx to the list of victims.

Car wants to grip nothing wrong with that, its no 800hp beast. To many people opinions of the supra are based of high hp monsters who's vids are all over the net.
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I like when these topics get into car comparisons, gives me motivation to drive!

MKVSupra, out of curiosity what is your best GT5/6 time on Laguna Seca with your Supra? I was curious, using FastestLaps.com laps as targets, so I took a couple cars out on Laguna Seca in GT5 and FM5 and on my first GT lap in a Corvette Z06 (cold sports hard) I was able to kill the track record in a Z06 (1:35), not able to touch in the record (1:40:90 05' Z06) in FM5 (1:43). This is by no means an indicator of what can be done with this car, this track, very little practice, in either game but based on my feeble skills with a controller (sold my Fanatec) FM makes you work more, and the Z06 feels more "alive", to get close to the track records. Just curious how your GT Supra would replicate real track times (94' Supra RZ record 1:45:87).

To me, most of the cars I have driven IRL and FM5 feel similar after factoring out the seat-of-the-pants feel, FM cars are anything but floaty, if so then I would say both games are "floaty". I think we all get use to a game and base opinions on familiarity/muscle memory.

I would like to try the Supra myself in GT5 (GT6 soon) but I can't find it anywhere to buy.
 
MKVSupra
what do you want me to explain, most cars feel the same way like they float not stick.

I struggle to lose the rear in real life yet in the game every turn is as if its formula d, supra has no grip and feel like a boat. I dont know what mkiv they based their physics on but I can guarantee you its not reality based.

The supra feels like its suspension is made of spaghetti, lifts way to much and time you touch the steering.

The car handles like a ****** old muscle car nothing remotely close to reality, even in the rain in a empty parking lot she does not want to lose grip. I used to swing the ass on my is300 on any rain or snow day it was wicked fun losing the tail. I cant do it in the sups, she refuses.

The car is hell bent on maintaining grip, no surprise really in testing she beat the 3000gt corvettezr1 300zx Viper and rx7 and 911, beat then on the slalom and skidpad.
Click to expand...

Funny, my friend has a TT Manual Supra and says even the standard power scares him at how easily it breaks traction, unsure on his tyres, bud I'd say they'll be something to compliment the Work Emotions he has on it
 
FuzzyFassbender
I like when these topics get into car comparisons, gives me motivation to drive!

MKVSupra, out of curiosity what is your best GT5/6 time on Laguna Seca with your Supra? I was curious, using FastestLaps.com laps as targets, so I took a couple cars out on Laguna Seca in GT5 and FM5 and on my first GT lap in a Corvette Z06 (cold sports hard) I was able to kill the track record in a Z06 (1:35), not able to touch in the record (1:40:90 05' Z06) in FM5 (1:43). This is by no means an indicator of what can be done with this car, this track, very little practice, in either game but based on my feeble skills with a controller (sold my Fanatec) FM makes you work more, and the Z06 feels more "alive", to get close to the track records. Just curious how your GT Supra would replicate real track times (94' Supra RZ record 1:45:87).

To me, most of the cars I have driven IRL and FM5 feel similar after factoring out the seat-of-the-pants feel, FM cars are anything but floaty, if so then I would say both games are "floaty". I think we all get use to a game and base opinions on familiarity/muscle memory.

I would like to try the Supra myself in GT5 (GT6 soon) but I can't find it anywhere to buy.
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On 🤬 tires I was 3ish seconds apart, faster in GT6 which to me has the more realistic Supra.

How do you choose same tire ? GT6 has way more options. What would be most similar.

Also Keep a look out at power differences, GT6 Supra is more like real life where they make more torque then Hp. In F5 even with mods she'll have more Hp then torque, another sign of physics being of ? or some other type mistake ?

Fezz_ST
Funny, my friend has a TT Manual Supra and says even the standard power scares him at how easily it breaks traction, unsure on his tyres, bud I'd say they'll be something to compliment the Work Emotions he has on it
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Maybe your friend should drive a eco box then. Cause stock supra is tame as a puppy, you got to rid the cats free up breathing and up the boost for it to get a little scary. **** tires could be to blame, or he just cant drive fast.
 
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MKVSupra
Also Keep a look out at power differences, GT6 Supra is more like real life where they make more torque then Hp. In F5 even with mods she'll have more Hp then torque, another sign of physics being of ? or some other type mistake ?
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Uh...



Seems about right to me, using the US/Euro spec engine that produces more power.

http://www.kudosprime.com/gt6/car_sheet.php?id=983

GT6 version is about the same, bar being likely the JDM version so a little down on power.
 
MKVSupra
On 🤬 tires I was 3ish seconds apart, faster in GT6 which to me has the more realistic Supra.
....
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I was wondering how your GT time in the Supra compares to the track record. If your time is well below the Laguna Seca Supra record (1:45:87), and I would bet it is, then maybe FM's lack of perceived grip representation is not that far fetched and GT representation may be too forgiving (very stable, lots of grip). We all push these virtual cars WAY past what we would do IRL and doing so can reveal characteristics not normally felt in our real cars.
We don't have any loosing-it fear or seat-of-the-pants feel in our virtual cars. My virtual BMW 135i feels much less stable than my IRL 135i but I am pushing it WAY past it's limits in the virtual world.

BTW, I did pick up a copy of GT6 (Anniversary Ed. for $39) today. While GT5 wasn't my favorite by a long shot I still hope to find some redeeming qualities and the price was right. Maybe I can find the Supra in GT6, couldn't in GT5.
I do like to try them all (console and PC racing titles) to understand the inevitable debates.
 
Be sure to drive the Supra RZ with at least comfort medium in GT6 if want to get close to realistic representation and ditch all aids, especially the ones that make the car lap faster.
Almost everyone always used default tire in GT6 as a reference to stock real world tire, they are not as PD always fitted higher grip tire as stock on road cars to cater casuals, for almost all cars will need to go down at least one or 2 or even 3 grip level. I even have to fit comfort medium on Diablo GT ( 90's Pirelli P Zero Summer tire, the latest P Zero would be comfort soft IMO, sports hard is for the likes of semi slick Advan Neova AD08R)
 
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Imari
Uh...



Seems about right to me, using the US/Euro spec engine that produces more power.

http://www.kudosprime.com/gt6/car_sheet.php?id=983

GT6 version is about the same, bar being likely the JDM version so a little down on power.
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Seems right going by manufacturer numbers sure. In reality the car made more then that, one would think PD or TT are not stupid enough to base their cars of fake numbers but dynos. Try the supra in GT6, see what it says once its in the garage (more then 320hp/315lbft. PD seems to be using real world power.

Think about it stock supra with gas (depends how much) and a driver lets easy 150lbs(id say more) would run 13.4 and trap 107mph.
 
MKVSupra
Seems right going by manufacturer numbers sure. In reality the car made more then that, one would think PD or TT are not stupid enough to base their cars of fake numbers but dynos. Try the supra in GT6, see what it says once its in the garage (more then 320hp/315lbft. PD seems to be using real world power.

Think about it stock supra with gas (depends how much) and a driver lets easy 150lbs(id say more) would run 13.4 and trap 107mph.
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I don't have GT6, so you'll have to help me out. What does it say?

Besides, it's a known fact that all the 276hp JDM cars of that era produced more. Significantly more in some cases. But as far as I know the US/Euro models didn't have the gentleman's agreement going on, so why is ~320hp wrong for that?
 
FuzzyFassbender
I was wondering how your GT time in the Supra compares to the track record. If your time is well below the Laguna Seca Supra record (1:45:87), and I would bet it is, then maybe FM's lack of perceived grip representation is not that far fetched and GT representation may be too forgiving (very stable, lots of grip). We all push these virtual cars WAY past what we would do IRL and doing so can reveal characteristics not normally felt in our real cars.
We don't have any loosing-it fear or seat-of-the-pants feel in our virtual cars. My virtual BMW 135i feels much less stable than my IRL 135i but I am pushing it WAY past it's limits in the virtual world.

BTW, I did pick up a copy of GT6 (Anniversary Ed. for $39) today. While GT5 wasn't my favorite by a long shot I still hope to find some redeeming qualities and the price was right. Maybe I can find the Supra in GT6, couldn't in GT5.
I do like to try them all (console and PC racing titles) to understand the inevitable debates.
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I ran 149 on the worst tires in GT6, 152 in F5, did just a lap in each. Not that my lap time or yours will mean much, this is a game you'll always run faster then reality. There is no threat of crashing or death to hold you back. Then you got temp and wind speed and what ever direction its going screwing with numbers.

If any one wants to chime in if their car more realistically represented in F5 or GT6 them please do. My opinion is the Supra in GT6 is far more like the real one. As iv said the cars in F5 seems way to floaty, and the sups is a prime example.

Can any one actually compare the two games to real life ?
 

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