Forza 5 physics vs GT6 аnd other sims

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 5' started by shved111, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Is that 1:49 on comfort hard ? did you change the oil ? on comfort medium, it might hover around 1:45 on a conservative clean driving - not like bat out of hell :)
     
  2. MKVSupra

    MKVSupra (Banned)

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    Stock supra's dynoed near 290 factor in loss and 320 does not add up.
    The overall weight (car fuel driver) trapping 107 does not add up to 320 either.

    GT6 has it at 340


    Pd has her at 340 once in your garage.


    yahh I put the worst hard tires, i didnt really try just ran a lap one game after another.
    nahh no oil change I know it adds lol.
     
  3. Fezz_ST

    Fezz_ST

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    Even if he couldn't drive a car to save his life how would that affect how easily the car breaks traction?!

    Maybe your Supra isn't boosting right or loosing power somewhere because everyone I know with a TT Supra says they are quite a wild beast in stock form
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  4. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Wild beast on cheaper tire maybe :lol: Fit something decent like Advan Neova AD08R or Potenza RE11, it would have better traction and grip so much better in corners.
     
  5. Fezz_ST

    Fezz_ST

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    I don't believe that is the case either, my twin charged Ibiza Cupra will spin the wheels in 2nd, what @MKVSupra is saying is that a twin turbo supra with ~300bhp won't be anything other than a joyus grip fest if you fit the right tyres, which simply isn't true.
     
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  6. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    You do have to take into account how wide the rear tires are on the Supra he's referring to :) If he fitted 275 rear tire with something like I posted above, the Supra would stick very well on the road. How wide is the front tires of a Cupra ?

    I know that R33 GTS25T with 280PS at the wheel and 265/40 18 inch rear Trampio summer tires would spin in 1st if launched hard, and spin a little on 2nd as well after that. With powerful FR cars, it really depends on the driver too, drop the clutch any higher than 4500rpm, I am pretty sure the Supra RZ would light up the rear unless on drag semi slick like Nitto ?
     
  7. Fezz_ST

    Fezz_ST

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    I'm talking about stock tyres though, Im not entirely certain what width the Supra tyres are stock but I don't think they are more than 235, the tyres on my Cupra are 215.

    Lets set things straight, I'm talking stock cars with tyres that came on the car from factory, no upgrades
     
  8. MKVSupra

    MKVSupra (Banned)

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    Well if he sucks at shiftin and letting the clutch out, thats how.

    Boostin hard enough to rip the intercooler pipes at a joint.

    My supra span the wheels in 4th, but cold tires and -10c might have had a little to do with that.

    But i can also launch the hell out of her on warm tires and nice warm summer road, add a little throttle modulation and nice dig and its a rocket.

    255 front 285 in the back :sly:

    Supra is 20 years old, good luck finding tires that old to fit your "from the factory" plus seeing a supra on stock rims is akin to seeing a unicorn.

    235/255 stock size
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  9. Fezz_ST

    Fezz_ST

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    You're clutching at straws, I'm not going to waste my energy arguing with you.
     
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  10. MKVSupra

    MKVSupra (Banned)

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    Did your friend tell you that you know the one you know which one.

    Its no arguing when you got nothing of merit to add but somebody else's opinion.
     
  11. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    I just bought Supra RZ, no oil change, 325HP, 392.6 ft lb, fitted comfort medium, bone stock, ran it at Laguna Seca - test drive from garage, drive cleanly and managed low 1:47s. The tires grip quite well on straight from 2nd gear last corner exit, the cornering also pretty good, low 27 sec 1st sector. The Supra drives like heaven compared to GT5, I can feel the tires grip under braking even with the stick, no slippery ice feeling. I do not use any assist with 9/3 brake balance. Someone with a wheel surely will pull 1:45 easily with comfort medium, as for me, I can see another half a second with less mistakes ( 1:46s )

    What surprises me most, is how the tires putting down power, I can sense traction :D
     
  12. Fezz_ST

    Fezz_ST

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    Do me a favour, launch your supra in GT6 on a flat road full revs and launch, no steering input, do the same thing in your supra in real life and then post pictures of your accident
     
  13. MKVSupra

    MKVSupra (Banned)

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    do us all a favor, go drive a real sports car with proper tires and post about your experience.

    or go ask your friend about his, so you can post what he said.
     
  14. MKVSupra

    MKVSupra (Banned)

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    Sounds about right, now if you try F5 youll think you are driving a two ton muscle car on leaf springs.
     
  15. Fezz_ST

    Fezz_ST

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    What a coincidence, I will be driving an R8 V10 at Silverstone this year

    Your move.

    Edit

    And for the record, I've driven lots of sports cars on proper tyres
     
  16. MKVSupra

    MKVSupra (Banned)

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    Cool, it sure explains why you are to inept to see F5 inferior physics.
     
  17. BoneSawTX

    BoneSawTX

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    The only thing inept I've seen is GT ability to recreate real world traction. Launching the 2000 Fbody in GT will result in a nice smooth straight path, I do the same in FM5 and it wants to do a 180. Now when i've done the same in my Z/28, 275 in front and 315 in back, it behaves identical to FM5 with the same setup.

    To add to it my brother that has worked on Supras, I drove a few myself when they were new thanks to my buddies dad being the head guy at a dealership. We have plenty of friends with Supras from stock to 1000HP. His first words after reading this is that the suspension in that car is crap. If you're struggling to lose the rear you are full of it or your car is in serious need of help. He said start by popping the hood, your turbos might be missing.
     
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  18. VXR

    VXR

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    How inept do you have to be to prefer a game where jumping off throttle and trying to pitch the car into lift-off oversteer does nothing more than make the car plough on, dead straight as if it was on rails? I tried this with the stock GT500 and gave up trying to weight shift at that point.
     
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  19. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    I suggest you try his example & you'll clearly see which one is inferior. GT5 & now 6 still have an outdated tire model that allows you to full throttle from a stand still, spinning the wheels in a straight line without so much as ever having to touch the steering. For someone that says he has a car like a TT Supra, you should know full well that would never work in real life; the car's rear would kick to the side as the tires look for grip, not shoot forward with no steering input.

    As for this statement that your car doesn't want to lose grip, even in the rain, that's either a lie or you baby the throttle which is what I'm expecting. The car makes well over 300Hp at the crank, in a FR setup, more than enough to lose grip in the rear.

    I did like that you tried to use statistics obtained by professionals to prove your point that your car's rear won't come around, though. Obviously in such cases, that's going to part of the challenge to achieve such figures, so it doesn't prove your point because any 300Hp+ RWD car can maintain grip with the right amount of throttle input. Give your car near full throttle through a turn next time. There's enough in it to break traction easily.
     
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  20. Hermanvongerman

    Hermanvongerman

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    So just played forza 5 at a friends place, and after playing GT6, I found FM5 to be un-drivable.....Now I know alot of you are going to be upset by my comments but hey imo physics in GT6 are by far and away the best on any console currently for driving feel > best on anything would be iracing or assetto corsa.

    imho GT6 has better handling characteristic's overall, if you use "comfort" series tyres which are the equivalent of your street cars wheels you will see what I mean, I do still believe the racing tyres on GT are waaaaay too grippy as are sports medium and above.

    I used to love the forza series, and even ranked quite highly on most leaderboards for grip and was formally No1 in the world on every drift leaderboard on FM3, so I'm not making the above statement lightly. Forza's graphics for the tracks are exceptional, the cars are all really well modeled however the physics for the cars make it feel like your driving a boat....... yes yes your car launches awesomely, something good for your drag nuts, however the cornering is abysmal and under braking the cars are just awful.
     
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  21. Tornado

    Tornado

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    One time, quite a few years ago, I was given the keys to my uncles car that he rented from Hertz. He was going on his honeymoon, and he's absolutely loaded anyway, so he figured what the hell and went all out. Convertible. Slushbox. The works. I only got maybe 10 minutes of seat time with it before my dad took it back. We were in an Aldi's parking lot, back when they were still closed on Sundays. I was only 18, so I was pretty stupid inexperienced behind the wheel.

    [​IMG]

    It was one of those. Now, you know the reason I only got 10 minutes of seat time? Because I wanted to try a hard launch after a few minutes of just kinda puttering around messing with the buttons and revving the engine. I lined the wheels up straight. Grasped the steering wheel tight. Put the top down. Put my foot on the brake, and stomped the throttle. The rear tires lit up in the most glorious way. And then the thing spun out. And it continued to spin until I let off the gas completely. And it scared the :censored: out of me, to the extent that it didn't seem so appealing to drive anymore.





    Of course, that's not a real sports car, I'm sure.
     
  22. Symtex

    Symtex

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    You need to sit down and spend more than a few minutes on a none-tune car to appreciate how good Fm5 physics are. You also need to learn how to throttle and break easy or you will spin/lock up the wheel. Cornering is fine. I drive a Mustang V6 (302hp) performance package with Pirelli p-zero and I do auto cross. When I auto cross, I often ride with certified driving instructor. So I know a thing if two about driving a performance car under challenging cornering course
     
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  23. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    Agreed. There's definitely a small learning curve to FM5's new physics even if you've had a ton of seat time in FM4. I don't understand these "floaty" & "boat" comments though, unless people are referring to the fact the cars have some actual weight to them. I assume that they feel floaty because it can be easy to get the cars (esp. the S2000 or Genesis you start with) to fish tail when you're not used to physics & those with controllers will find themselves flicking the analog back & forth trying to get straight. I don't think new users are accustomed to just how sensitive the analog & triggers are which can make it a bit frustrating. But, it's definitely above FM4. After playing 5, it's apparent just how easy it was to control the higher horsepower cars with no driving aids & how easy it was to recover the car starting to become upset mid-turn in 4. Driving cars like the LaFerrari or a 500Hp Exige S can end up being a challenge as you try to find the right throttle inputs, which seems to be a good reflection of how one would expect them to react in real life. In FM4, it would have been more than easy to just half-throttle through every corner & lift a bit if you felt the rear breaking lose without actually creating oversteer.

    According to some, GT6 apparently either has no lift-off throttle, or is highly exaggerated depending on the tires. I'll agree with someone who said you shouldn't have to change the tires in the game to get a more realistic feel of how the car should react than how the car is by default.
     
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  24. BoneSawTX

    BoneSawTX

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    The floaty comments are just recycled garbage people repeat because they have heard it before. When I went from GT5 to FM4 there was a learning curve. Now going from FM4 to FM5 there is a much bigger curve, going from GT6 to FM5 is an even larger gap. What they don't like is the "Feel" of a realistic tire model and not being able to whip around in high HP cars with little consequence with heavy braking and going WOT.

    i see the same thing from people in flight combat sims i play, guys coming from something that has a generic flight model complain about stalls, climb rate and turn rates. people don't like learning curves.
     
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  25. Khyber

    Khyber

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    Picked up gt6 today too. Traded the awful cod ghosts towards it. Buying a ps3 game while owning a ps4 and xbox one was wierd. Time to make my own comparisons with forza 5.

    As much as I tried to pass on gt6 I couldn't resist at 39.99.
     
  26. Imari

    Imari

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    I'd be interested to hear what people who think FM5 is floaty think of other games. Most useful would be modern PC sims, or even older ones at a pinch.

    If you think FM5 is floaty, what do you think of:
    -iRacing (as far as I know three months free is still available https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/iracing-promo-codes-updated.131900/)
    -Assetto Corsa
    -Netkar Pro
    -rFactor 2/rFactor
    -Sim Raceway (F2P)
    -Raceroom Racing Experience (F2P)
    -GTR2
    -GTL
    -GPL
    -Probably more that I've forgotten.


    Each game has a distinct feel, and being able to match up what you consider floaty handling with other game will narrow down what's causing that, even if you're unable to explain what's causing the sensation well in your own words.
     
  27. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    I reserve the term "floaty" for a game that exhibits such wacky and artificial pivoting/lateral motions that it's difficult to pin down how exactly the car is in contact with the road surface. Especially if the suspension modelling is numb or its motions are pre-animated or something, instead of modelling weight transfer. There are relatively few games that qualify for this -- even Ridge Racer, which is insane enough to allow you to drift a corner while spinning the wrong way, is snappy and makes the line between grip and slip pretty clear. Classic threshold-understeer-all-day arcade-style racers, like much of the NFS series and actual coin-ops like the Cruisin' series, are also pretty straightforward in communicating what the car is doing (going straight, turning, or not turning enough). The best examples I can think of for a "floaty" game would be older Codemasters titles and Initial D Arcade Stage. If you want to talk bars of soap with wheels, that's IDAS.

    To use the word "floaty" to describe "inadequate grip" or "too much oversteer" is an unnecessary obstacle to proper discussion, IMO. There are actual terms for this stuff.
     
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  28. 1241Penguin

    1241Penguin Premium

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    I can assure you guys that there is torque steer in GT6 for rear-wheel drive cars (not FWDs). When launching the One-77 on the Goodwood track for example, the back end will swing around.
     
  29. Fezz_ST

    Fezz_ST

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    It was established some time ago that, that reaction at Goodwood is due to curvature in the road and it has also already been proven that torque steer does not exist in a video posted a few pages ago.

    Edit

    My mistake it was the other FM v. GT thread

     
  30. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    When I discovered that I to was excited at the prospect, but the unfortunate fact of the matter is that's an isolated incident. Take the One-77 to Route X or Tokyo R246 and I guarantee it'll steer as straight can be without a fuss.