Forza Motorsport 4 - General Discussion

[Bogie 19th]

Cool, and it will be a million times better if it didn't exist.

It doesn't exist, which is what we are talking about.

 

[Prosthetic]

Exactly. He obviously made that video to point out meaningless items in the game to make it seem "flawed". Steering Sim turns it off, and until I have the demo or game in my hands, I wont believe otherwise.

Lol..... Direct steering input is meaningless?

Most of us at Forzacentral are actually posting the opposite of what you are saying. Even better you should visit racesimcentral forums, as well as insidesimracing.tv and the forums over at Car and Driver. Tons of praise for the optional removal of steering assist.

The great news is that it's there and works in spades.

I don't see a need for you to call people stupid. I am sure that kind of talk isn't permitted here.

Yeah, and plenty of people are posting exactly what he was in the exact same thread. Of course a lot of Forzacentral is saying that, its full of Forza fanboys.

I never called anyone anything. I never said "Hey Bogie, you're stupid".

It doesn't exist, which is what we are talking about.

Except it does, watch the video.

 

[theotherspongey]

Except it does, watch the video.

Yes, let's judge it from a video that appears to be 240p and the guy doesnt even show us his wheel settings, and he's using an automatic.

Let's all go with the video!

 

[Evian]

900º degree 👍

 

[Prosthetic]

Yes, let's judge it from a video that appears to be 240p and the guy doesnt even show us his wheel settings, and he's using an automatic.

Let's all go with the video!

He used a camera, but you can still see the assist while everything is turned off. And it doesn't matter if its automatic or manual, he used auto so he can film it at the same time. He uses manual if hes actually playing the game, but this was a demonstration.

 

[Hotspitta]

First off:

But why can't it be all the way removed? Why can't Turn 10 just keep their word and do what they said they would. This is supposed to be a simulator, not a arcade racer. Why does there have to be any assists whats so ever? Why can't they just do what every past Sim racer has done and have direct steering.

Your friend is pretty questionable considering all the livefeed we can see poppin up all over the net. The reviews that are coming in are completly inconsistant with your false claims and assumptions. The telemetry doesn't prove the existance of the steering assist in the first place.
Move along now...

We dont believe you you need more people

 

[Luminis]

I wouldn't put it as drastic as Hotspitta, but I, for one, am gonna wait for a while to see the videos popping up of the retail version. Something that shows what's being done clearer and also gives some more information about what the assist is doing under normal conditions - eg. not someone sawing away at the wheel in an attempt to provoke it.

No disrespect to anyone, I'd just like to know what's going on when I'm actually playing the game, not specifically testing a supposed driving aid.

 

[Prosthetic]

Your friend is pretty questionable considering all the livefeed we can see poppin up all over the net. The reviews that are coming in are completly inconsistant with your false claims and assumptions. The telemetry doesn't prove the existance of the steering assist in the first place.
Move along now...

We dont believe you you need more people

The telemetry shows the position of the front wheels.

Why does it matter how many people believe what.

If you take a thousand people and only one of those people believe that the world is round. Does that mean the world is flat? Or does it mean that 999 people are wrong. The amount of people doesn't change the facts.

 

[Luminis]

The amount of people doesn't change the facts.

It just shows how noticible it is. Which isn't changing a thing about the claim in the first place, but changes a lot about what kind of people will care about the issue.

That's why T10 should just hide that stuff. Nobody knows what's going on under other games' hoods, so they're just rated on how they feel. FM4 could now feel pretty much perfect, but people know there's something to keep an eye out for...

 

[Bogie 19th]

I never called anyone anything. I never said "Hey Bogie, you're stupid".

You are calling everyone STUPID that knows that you can remove the steering assist.

Except it does, watch the video.

Not only did I watch the video, I have actually played the game

This is a good video though:

900º degree 👍

Nice All part of the new improved steering.

The amount of people doesn't change the facts.

Indeed. Which is why we are glad they allow us to remove the steering assist. A fact confirmed by the developers of Turn 10.

 

[buttsneeze]

900º degree 👍

This is using a glitch that breaks the linearity and makes it useless for regular driving. Also, it's STILL assisted. Though, it's way way better than regular unglitched simulation steering. In regular simulation steering all you have to do is turn maybe 90 degrees to get full opposite lock; at least this uses the full 720 (tested, it only goes up to 720 even though my wheel is set to 900)

FYI, I'm Prosthetic's friend and I've thoroughly tested the demo with my Fanatec wheel. The exact same counter steer assist as Forza 3 is back even when it's set on simulation steering. It's invasive and actually makes driving HARDER because it often overcorrects and sends the car flying the other way in situations where, had the steering been direct, it wouldn't have happened. I don't understand why they can't just give direct steering. The physics are fine. The game isn't fun when I know it's constantly trying to 'help' me, often making it worse. It's disconcerting when you know how a real car will react in an oversteer situation, you apply a certain amount of opposite lock, and the game suddenly decides it's going to go full opposite lock regardless of how your wheel is turned and send your car spinning the other way.

 

[Prosthetic]

It just shows how noticible it is. Which isn't changing a thing about the claim in the first place, but changes a lot about what kind of people will care about the issue.

That's why T10 should just hide that stuff. Nobody knows what's going on under other games' hoods, so they're just rated on how they feel. FM4 could now feel pretty much perfect, but people know there's something to keep an eye out for...

But why can't there be a setting for it being perfect. Its stupid.

 

[PzR Slim]

This is using a glitch that breaks the linearity and makes it useless for regular driving. Also, it's STILL assisted. Though, it's way way better than regular unglitched simulation steering. In regular simulation steering all you have to do is turn maybe 90 degrees to get full opposite lock; at least this uses the full 720 (tested, it only goes up to 720 even though my wheel is set to 900)

FYI, I'm Prosthetic's friend and I've thoroughly tested the demo with my Fanatec wheel. The exact same counter steer assist as Forza 3 is back even when it's set on simulation steering. It's invasive and actually makes driving HARDER because it often overcorrects and sends the car flying the other way in situations where, had the steering been direct, it wouldn't have happened. I don't understand why they can't just give direct steering. The physics are fine. The game isn't fun when I know it's constantly trying to 'help' me, often making it worse. It's disconcerting when you know how a real car will react in an oversteer situation, you apply a certain amount of opposite lock, and the game suddenly decides it's going to go full opposite lock regardless of how your wheel is turned and send your car spinning the other way.

What's the glitch then?

 

[Bogie 19th]

This is using a glitch that breaks the linearity and makes it useless for regular driving. Also, it's STILL assisted. Though, it's way way better than regular unglitched simulation steering. In regular simulation steering all you have to do is turn maybe 90 degrees to get full opposite lock; at least this uses the full 720 (tested, it only goes up to 720 even though my wheel is set to 900)

FYI, I'm Prosthetic's friend and I've thoroughly tested the demo with my Fanatec wheel. The exact same counter steer assist as Forza 3 is back even when it's set on simulation steering. It's invasive and actually makes driving HARDER because it often overcorrects and sends the car flying the other way in situations where, had the steering been direct, it wouldn't have happened. I don't understand why they can't just give direct steering. The physics are fine. The game isn't fun when I know it's constantly trying to 'help' me, often making it worse. It's disconcerting when you know how a real car will react in an oversteer situation, you apply a certain amount of opposite lock, and the game suddenly decides it's going to go full opposite lock regardless of how your wheel is turned and send your car spinning the other way.

Is there a thing in the AUP about blatant lies?

 

[buttsneeze]

What's the glitch then?

I'll link you to it: http://drift-central.com/forza-motorsport-4-demo-drift-review-onboard-gameplay-video/

It's utterly useless for regular driving, since you have to turn almost 180 degrees for a slight turn due to the broken linearity (no, it can't be adjusted, not on the wheel nor ingame).

Also it's STILL assisted. Sometimes when I'm sliding it'll just jerk the steering irrespective of how my steering wheel is turned, and I can feel it, and it usually makes my car spin out. I can see it in the telemetry too.

 

[Hotspitta]

The telemetry shows the position of the front wheels.

Why does it matter how many people believe what.

It doesn't matter but on the other hand your video doesn't prove anything either. The telemetry does not show the position of the front wheels nor steering angle. The little steering wheel left bottom only shows the direction the rotation is aplied too. Second he is clearly drifting the car and at one point he loses the back. Thats about the only thing that video proves. You really think you'r that smart hey.

Here's a guy who apparently knows what he's talking about.

 

[Prosthetic]

Is there a thing in the AUP about blatant lies?

Try posting something positive for once.

 

[PzR Slim]

I'll link you to it: http://drift-central.com/forza-motorsport-4-demo-drift-review-onboard-gameplay-video/

It's utterly useless for regular driving, since you have to turn almost 180 degrees for a slight turn due to the broken linearity (no, it can't be adjusted, not on the wheel nor ingame).

Also it's STILL assisted. Sometimes when I'm sliding it'll just jerk the steering irrespective of how my steering wheel is turned, and I can feel it, and it usually makes my car spin out. I can see it in the telemetry too.

So I've just sat at the start line and got the telemetry up and turned my fanatec wheel, which is set at 900 degrees, from lock to lock. Guess what the wheel on the telemetry screen goes from it's lock to lock to position as my fanatec does. My fanatec doesn't get to 90 degrees and the on screen wheel then stops.

And when I do the glitch my wheel behaves in exactly the same way as it did before. Absolutely no difference.

 

[Luminis]

But why can't there be a setting for it being perfect. Its stupid.

I don't know, nor do I care in particular. You know, it's like the recent discovery of neutrinos possibly moving faster than light. To some people, this is a big thing. Einstein was possibly wrong, the reaction might precede the cause and everyting we thought to know was horribly wrong.

To most people, it won't change a thing about how they get on with their lives.

What I'm saying is, even if it's there (which I'll judge when the game's out and some more people went about testing it), what's more important? Whether it feels good, or whether there's an assist somewhere?

Much like with the neutrinos, there are those who care. And those who don't give a damn as long as it doesn't make itself felt too much.

I, for one, am in the middle. It's annoying that it's there, but I mostly won't care if the game still feels good. In fact, I'm mostly annoyed by it because a lot of people will focus so much on it that it's going to be all the game's "feel" is reduced to. Which is a bit of a shame, really.

I'm not saying you or your friend are wrong, by the way. It's perfectly fine to be annoyed by that - much as it is fine to be in an uproar because neutrinos may be moving faster than light. Just don't expect most people to agree with you when it doesn't bother them 95% of the time.

But, to answer the question directly: Because perfection is in the eye of the beholder and, thus, can't be achieved. Ever.

 

[buttsneeze]

So I've just sat at the start line and got the telemetry up and turned my fanatec wheel, which is set at 900 degrees, from lock to lock. Guess what the wheel on the telemetry screen goes from it's lock to lock to position as my fanatec does. My fanatec doesn't get to 90 degrees and the on screen wheel then stops.

So you didn't read my post. I said it changes the steering rate if you're counter steering. Normal turn-in feels okay but as soon as you start to slide it goes to opposite lock from the tiniest amount of steering input.

It also greatly decreases in rate as you wind it out, and pretty much stops doing anything past 540.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

I don't know, nor do I care in particular. You know, it's like the recent discovery of neutrinos possibly moving faster than light. To some people, this is a big thing. Einstein was possibly wrong, the reaction might precede the cause and everyting we thought to know was horribly wrong.

To most people, it won't change a thing about how they get on with their lives.

What I'm saying is, even if it's there (which I'll judge when the game's out and some more people went about testing it), what's more important? Whether it feels good, or whether there's an assist somewhere?

Much like with the neutrinos, there are those who care. And those who don't give a damn as long as it doesn't make itself felt too much.

I, for one, am in the middle. It's annoying that it's there, but I mostly won't care if the game still feels good. In fact, I'm mostly annoyed by it because a lot of people will focus so much on it that it's going to be all the game's "feel" is reduced to. Which is a bit of a shame, really.

I'm not saying you or your friend are wrong, by the way. It's perfectly fine to be annoyed by that - much as it is fine to be in an uproar because neutrinos may be moving faster than light. Just don't expect most people to agree with you when it doesn't bother them 95% of the time.

Wow. He just went Einstein on you lol.

Faster than light neutrinos FTW

 

[buttsneeze]

It doesn't matter but on the other hand your video doesn't prove anything either. The telemetry does not show the position of the front wheels nor steering angle. The little steering wheel left bottom only shows the direction the rotation is aplied too. Second he is clearly drifting the car and at one point he loses the back. Thats about the only thing that video proves. You really think you'r that smart hey.

Here's a guy who apparently knows what he's talking about.

This guy is using A CONTROLLER. Completely irrelevant. Also, the steering wheel in the telemetry is an EXACT representation of how the front wheels are turned. Stop making **** up to try and justify your argument. You haven't played the demo with a Fanatec wheel. I have. The assist is INVASIVE, ANNOYING, and in many cases makes the game unnecessarily difficult and unpredictable.

 

[Prosthetic]

It doesn't matter but on the other hand your video doesn't prove anything either. The telemetry does not show the position of the front wheels nor steering angle. The little steering wheel left bottom only shows the direction the rotation is aplied too. Second he is clearly drifting the car and at one point he loses the back. Thats about the only thing that video proves. You really think you'r that smart hey.

Here's a guy who apparently knows what he's talking about.

You notice that he always over correcting, because he isn't used to being aided by the computer. That video doesn't prove anything because you can't see how much he is counter steering and how much the computer is.

Try posting without the big attitude it helps.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

@Luminis

Feeling good and feeling right are two different things, but regardless, whatever feels right is going to feel more better, especially factoring in when a game is trying to emulate real life, as that becomes your direct comparison of what feels good.

So this is hugely important than some random 95% number you throw out there.

 

[buttsneeze]

@Luminis

Feeling good and feeling right are two different things, but regardless whatever feels right is going to feel more better, especially factoring in when a game is trying to emulate real life, as that becomes youu direct comparison of what feels good.

So this is hugely important than some random 95% number you throw out there.

yeah, and the steering assist makes it feel wrong. I know how a car should react when I counter steer, and the cars in Forza are hugely unpredictable and unnatural because the steering input I put in isn't actually how the front wheels are turning. It's far easier to drift in a more hardcore PC sim like Live for Speed just because the steering is direct. If Forza 4 had direct steering I could drift all day, no problem, but with the assist it applies too much opposite lock too early and makes the car snap the other way.

 

[Luminis]

Wow. He just went Einstein on you lol.

Faster than light neutrinos FTW

Let's turn the universe upside down, eh?

@Luminis

Feeling good and feeling right are two different things, but regardless whatever feels right is going to feel more better, especially factoring in when a game is trying to emulate real life, as that becomes youu direct comparison of what feels good.

So this is hugely important than some random 95% number you throw out there.

So, you suppose most people can actually judge what feels realistic when, I assume, most of them haven't driven a single car on a track, let alone the majority of cars on the majority of tracks in-game?

Let's be honest here, in most cases, feeling 'realistic' just means that the game does what people expect. That's why you see people go 'WTF unrealistic' when they're experiencing severe understeer in a modern rear-wheel driven sports car. It's how they set up IRL for safety reasons, but people expect them to oversteer all over the place so don't think of an understeery RWD car as realistic.

So, your "feeling right" is completely pointless as most people are completely not in a position to tell the difference.

 

[buttsneeze]

Let's turn the universe upside down, eh?



So, you suppose most people can actually judge what feels realistic when, I assume, most of them haven't driven a single car on a track, let alone the majority of cars on the majority of tracks in-game?

Let's be honest here, in most cases, feeling 'realistic' just means that the game does what people expect. That's why you see people go 'WTF unrealistic' when they're experiencing severe understeer in a modern rear-wheel driven sports car. It's how they set up IRL for safety reasons, but people expect them to oversteer all over the place so don't think of an understeery RWD car as realistic.

So, your "feeling right" is completely pointless as most people are completely not in a position to tell the difference.

So your only argument is that I might not know what I'm talking about? Having played just about every decent PC sim with my wheel, I know damn well what feels right and what doesn't. Forza is the odd one out for counter steer behavior because of the invasive assist.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Let's turn the universe upside down, eh?

I understand the implications of the discovery; but it is insanely over my head lol. I am only in College Physics 1 lol. I am a Biology freak 👍

Much less do I understand Quantum mechanics (and "God" forces) or anything at that level. Props to you if you comprehend it.


Sorry for off topic conversation.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I am amazed at the people grasping for straws. Oh well, their loss

 

[MoGoSpeed]

@ Luminis Wow. Horrible.

I'm sure all of these Race Car game developers are trying to make it as real as possible. You have plenty of people who have had track time, and play these simulation games, And choose their best of what's more realistic in relation. PC or Console. (Tracking is expensive BTW). I guess it just hasn't been that prevalent in the Forza community because of the obvious assists. So youre obviously unaware. Also developing Race Car Drivers out of a simulation based game adds more to the realistic nature of these games.