Forza Motorsport 4 - General Discussion

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mr Latte
  • 4,624 comments
  • 376,856 views

What Version Do You Intend To Buy

  • Limited Collectors Edition

    Votes: 224 68.3%
  • Standard Edition

    Votes: 61 18.6%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 43 13.1%

  • Total voters
    328
The reason this is so frustrating is because the physics in Forza 4 are so damn good, but they're ruined by the buggy, invasive steering assist. If we just had direct, linear, unassisted steering (like every other goddamn game on the face of the planet) it'd be perfect.
 
So you didn't read my post. I said it changes the steering rate if you're counter steering. Normal turn-in feels okay but as soon as you start to slide it goes to opposite lock from the tiniest amount of steering input.

It also greatly decreases in rate as you wind it out, and pretty much stops doing anything past 540.

Need to test the first more. The second part I've just tested by travelling at a constant speed of 7 mph in circles on one of the big run off areas and by altering the steering by 20 - 30 degrees across the range of the lock it does affect the turning circle across the whole range. So I don't buy your figure of not much happening after 540.
 
Bogie 19th
I am amazed at the people grasping for straws. Oh well, their loss ;)

We knew this sub-forum was going to turn into a flame fest the closer it got t launch.

What is funny is everyone basing their conclusions off of a demo with 5 cars and 1 track lol.
 
We knew this sub-forum was going to turn into a flame fest the closer it got t launch.

What is funny is everyone basing their conclusions off of a demo with 5 cars and 1 track lol.

With presumably final physics and control code. There is no 'not representative of the final product' disclaimer anywhere in the demo.
 
Woops. Quoted when I should have edited. Lol

buttsneeze
The reason this is so frustrating is because the physics in Forza 4 are so damn good, but they're ruined by the buggy, invasive steering assist. If we just had direct, linear, unassisted steering (like every other goddamn game on the face of the planet) it'd be perfect.

And I commend you for running tests. I really do. I haven't experienced it because I am using a controller.

But complain to the right people. No one here has the power to implement anything in the game.

Take it to the ForzaMotorsport.net forums and make sure the T10 staff knows that you and the simulation community are not happy with it.
 
Need to test the first more. The second part I've just tested by travelling at a constant speed of 7 mph in circles on one of the big run off areas and by altering the steering by 20 - 30 degrees across the range of the lock it does affect the turning circle across the whole range. So I don't buy your figure of not much happening after 540.

Great that you don't buy it, but that doesn't make it not true. You might get maybe 1 or 2 more degrees of steering past 540 but the rate drops off so much it's irrelevant. The main problem is the counter steer assist. Press up on the D-pad to see your telemetry and watch the steering wheel icon. About 95 degrees is full lock. Watch how it correlates to your actual wheel when normally turning versus counter steering. You'll see that just the tiniest bit of counter steer applies full opposite lock.
 
Take it to the ForzaMotorsport.net forums and make sure the T10 staff knows that you and the simulation community are not happy with it.

They set my posts to 'moderated' before I even got the demo, for no reason, so I can't post anything about it. They won't approve any of my posts informing people about the steering assist, presumably as a kind of 'damage control'. Still, others have noticed it, posted about it, and nobody seems to care. It's too bad most people are too stupid and complacent.
 
Regardless, this is a Forza sub-forum, I'm sure he can discuss the game anywhere here.
 
buttsneeze
They set my posts to 'moderated' before I even got the demo, for no reason, so I can't post anything about it. They won't approve any of my posts informing people about the steering assist, presumably as a kind of 'damage control'. Still, others have noticed it, posted about it, and nobody seems to care. It's too bad most people are too stupid and complacent.

Then have someone who is a VIP in the community forums post it for you. They moderate all of the new members. I would do it for you but I am not VIP in the forums.

The more people complain the more attention it draws. There is just no point in arguing here about it.

If there is a steering assist I want it GONE before my CSR arrives.
 
Then have someone who is a VIP in the community forums post it for you. They moderate all of the new members. I would do it for you but I am not VIP in the forums.

The more people complain the more attention it draws. There is just no point in arguing here about it.

If there is a steering assist I want it GONE before my CSR arrives.

Why don't you post about it? I don't know any VIPs.
 
Great that you don't buy it, but that doesn't make it not true. You might get maybe 1 or 2 more degrees of steering past 540 but the rate drops off so much it's irrelevant. The main problem is the counter steer assist. Press up on the D-pad to see your telemetry and watch the steering wheel icon. About 95 degrees is full lock. Watch how it correlates to your actual wheel when normally turning versus counter steering. You'll see that just the tiniest bit of counter steer applies full opposite lock.

I don't buy it because I can see I'm getting more than 1 or 2 extra degrees of lock in game when I go past 540. And I tried the glitch and drove some laps but honestly it just felt like it messed up the steering with not enough lock being represented in game for what I was inputting with my wheel around the middle 180 degrees. Will check the counter steering now.
 
buttsneeze
Why don't you post about it? I don't know any VIPs.

I am still a "new member" so my posts are moderated just like yours.

I tried posting on a rivals mode glitch that stops the AI cars from "spawning" allowing you an open track to complete your time on. I haven't seen it posted yet.


And for anyone wondering NO I am not disclosing the details on this; damn cheaters.
 
The Turn 10 PR machine is despicable. They make sure no dissenting opinions are allowed to thrive. They delete or lock posts that point out problems with their game, instead of addressing the problems.

They still won't respond to any of my PMs asking why I was put on the moderated list, either. They're incredibly unprofessional and most of the moderators are rude and abuse their power.
 
Great that you don't buy it, but that doesn't make it not true. You might get maybe 1 or 2 more degrees of steering past 540 but the rate drops off so much it's irrelevant. The main problem is the counter steer assist. Press up on the D-pad to see your telemetry and watch the steering wheel icon. About 95 degrees is full lock. Watch how it correlates to your actual wheel when normally turning versus counter steering. You'll see that just the tiniest bit of counter steer applies full opposite lock.

But you will find that others are not experiencing what you are claiming, so that is the issue.
 
But you will find that others are not experiencing what you are claiming, so that is the issue.

No, ONE other is not experiencing what I'm claiming. There are quite a few people with Fanatec wheels and the demo who can verify everything I've said, both on Forzacentral and the official forums.
 
I understand the implications of the discovery; but it is insanely over my head lol. I am only in College Physics 1 lol. I am a Biology freak 👍

Much less do I understand Quantum mechanics (and "God" forces) or anything at that level. Props to you if you comprehend it.


Sorry for off topic conversation. :)
Physics are more of a hobby, so my knowledge is pretty limited, due to being self-tought, but that stuff was intriguing, so I looked intoo it a bit. And it is indeed interesting. If true, that is. But it also doesn't change a thing about our day to day lives, so yeah :lol:
So your only argument is that I might not know what I'm talking about? Having played just about every decent PC sim with my wheel, I know damn well what feels right and what doesn't. Forza is the odd one out for counter steer behavior because of the invasive assist.
No, my argument is that the majority of people wouldn't be able to tell good feeling (aka. feeling like they expect) from realistic feeling, because they don't have the experience to tell what's actually realistic.

I doubt I ever said that you (or anyone else specifically, for that matter) are part of that majority. I'm not defending Forza right now, by the way. I don't see the need to do so just because of one video of the demo. I might bother when we get some more stuff from the retail version, where all the options (not just race options) are fully available and someone shows their wheelsettings, as well.

Until then, I'm just debating basics. And in this case, I'm saying most people lack the experience to tell good feeling from realistic feeling. That's all. If you feel you belong to the minority of people that know what the car should feel like, that's cool.

@ Luminis Wow. Horrible.

I'm sure all of these Race Car game developers are trying to make it as real as possible. You have plenty of people who have had track time, and play these simulation games, And choose their best of what's more realistic in relation. PC or Console. (Tracking is expensive BTW). I guess it just hasn't been that prevalent in the Forza community because of the obvious assists. So youre obviously unaware. Also developing Race Car Drivers out of a simulation based game adds more to the realistic nature of these games.
What? Have you looked at how many people are buying games like GT5 and FM4? We're not talking about the relatively small bunch of hardcore PC simmers, but about communities as GTP, where only a rather small percentage of people has actual experience with driving a car on a track. Let alone all the people who're just buying the game. Hell, the majority of people isn't even playing with a wheel (just look at the wheel sales, should be obvious enough), so I still stand by my comment: Most people don't know the difference between feeling good and feeling right.

Granted, there are the few people who go for the most realistic experience. But I wonder: Do they actually keep an eye on Forza or do they just go with iRacing, rFactor and such? Because, as we probably all know, most games on consoles aren't that realistic.
 
I have a Fanatec, albeit the shifter is no longer working. But the wheel to wheel rotation and assist (or lack of it) is indeed accurate.

There are MANY others also experiencing similar results both on Forzacentral as well as insidesimracing.tv

Oh well, what ever floats your boat. I'm just glad it's working fine for those of us who haven't had a similar issue.
 
Another issue that compounds the steering assist problem is that cars in Forza 4 oversteer much more easily than Forza 3, so the assist is much more readily seen and felt.
 
I have a Fanatec, albeit the shifter is no longer working. But the wheel to wheel rotation and assist (or lack of it) is indeed accurate.

There are MANY others also experiencing similar results both on Forzacentral as well as insidesimracing.tv

Oh well, what ever floats your boat. I'm just glad it's working fine for those of us who haven't had a similar issue.

Test the counter steering, like I said. You'll find it jerks the front wheels to opposite lock irrespective of your steering input.

Also, bring up the telemetry when you turn lock to lock. You'll see around halfway it starts slowing down and at 540 it all but stops.
 
Yup, this guy has a different copy as well, lol.

Test the counter steering, like I said. You'll find it jerks the front wheels to opposite lock irrespective of your steering input.

I had a 20 minute laps due to all the testing I have done. And that is just one lap of many laps that I have been testing the new steering assist removal, the turn to turn and counter, the new damage (and where it has been improved or hampered).
 
Yup, this guy has a different copy as well, lol.



I had a 20 minute laps due to all the testing I have done. And that is just one lap of many laps that I have been testing the new steering assist removal, the turn to turn and counter, the new damage (and where it has been improved or hampered).

Then I'm very sorry you're not good at noticing things. It's there, fact, period, end of discussion. Whether or not you have the mental faculties to NOTICE it is another topic. There's hardly even a difference between 'normal' and 'simulation' steering. Simulation just applies even MORE opposite lock, causing it to artificially overcorrect without you telling it to. I think the only wheel users gushing about simulation steering are the people with no real concept of how a car drives.
 
Actually, they are not, fact, period end of discussion. But feel free to believe that.

Good luck ;)
 
Actually, they are not, fact, period end of discussion. But feel free to believe that.

Good luck ;)

Test again. Press up on the D-pad to bring up the telemetry. Turn your wheel 90 degrees. The on-screen wheel in the corner should turn maybe 30. Now get into a slide, and apply 90 degrees of opposite lock. The on-screen wheel will now be turned 95 degrees to full opposite lock.

Once again, I apologize that you're too stupid to notice it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 
Oh well buttsneeze. Atleast you saved yourself £60.

It could be worse.
 
Oh well buttsneeze. Atleast you saved yourself £60.

It could be worse.

I can't imagine it would be fun going around spreading FUD though. Sounds like a waste of time to me.

Still no demo for you?!?! You need to get in on the group rival stuff during the demo! We NEED you ;)
 
Bogie 19th
Still no demo for you?!?! You need to get in on the group rival stuff during the demo! We NEED you ;)

I'm gold live member. Should be up tomorrow I think. I've heard tuesday too.

Gotta get some Forza fix I'm waiting on shoulder surgery in November so I guess I'll be doing liveries with a pad then lol.
 
Spagetti69
I'm gold live member. Should be up tomorrow I think. I've heard tuesday too.

Gotta get some Forza fix I'm waiting on shoulder surgery in November so I guess I'll be doing liveries with a pad then lol.

Monday for Gold subscribers Friday for everyone else.
 
Test again. Press up on the D-pad to bring up the telemetry. Turn your wheel 90 degrees. The on-screen wheel in the corner should turn maybe 30. Now get into a slide, and apply 90 degrees of opposite lock. The on-screen wheel will now be turned 95 degrees to full opposite lock.

Once again, I apologize that you're too stupid to notice it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Ok, so I tested the counter steering and it does appear to go to full lock. Only seems to happen for me at extreme car angles hence why I haven't noticed it with general driving as I don't tend to rag the car. Maybe a demo issue as this has only surfaced since the demo and not heard anything about it from those with green discs.
 
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