Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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My personal view is that all this stuff should only be in the FH series, that should be their car collecting, carpg, whatever game, and FM should be an e-sports title. Otherwise FM just becomes the same game as FH but with real world race tracks instead of an original environment, and that is frankly just a pointless game concept.
The problem with FH is that the driving is dull when I compare.
And this is a game for the fun, you run through the fields, some walls, I want a game for the love of the cars (and the stock ones too) with a gameplay with good physics and clean driving.

Enthusia was a good example, and Gran Turismo is the original game for me, I loved 2 and 4.
FM4 was like a good sequel to these.
 
The problem with FH is that the driving is dull when I compare.
And this is a game for the fun, you run through the fields, some walls, I want a game for the love of the cars (and the stock ones too) with a gameplay with good physics and clean driving.
There has been an attitude for a long time that "sim = difficult to drive" and "arcade = easier to drive, fun", but I've never agreed with it. Everyday people are able to drive real cars with no problems. I even saw a TV program where they put everyday people into an F1 car, and they were quickly able to judge the limit of grip on corners and corner at speeds similar to pro F1 drivers. There's no reason why FH6 should have any worse physics than FM, there's nothing difficult to drive about the cars in FM, indeed I find them easier to drive precisely because they drive more realistically.

The thing is, if we have:
FH series = open world, car collecting, carpg, weekly chores to unlock cars
FM series = race tracks, car collecting, carpg, weekly chores to unlock cars
then I see a 3rd game as being necessary:
3rd series = race tracks, true e-sports title with fair competition and equal access to equipment.
Otherwise I can't see there ever being a Forza game to compete with iRacing and ACC.

what you described as a pointless game concept is basically what made the success of GT then Forza Motorsport until 4
No, no, there was no Horizon series then. It's only pointless when you have another game that already has it in. If people want that same stuff in a game with real world tracks, just add those tracks into Horizon.

I'd also argue that the car collecting elements weren't what made the success of GT. When GT was released, it was simply the best driving game ever, regardless of the car collecting elements. I would have bought it on the day of release just the same if it gave you all cars at the start. In terms of real life friends at the time who also had the game, I didn't know a single person who thought the car collecting elements were anything other than a negative, an element that reduced their ability to enjoy the game. They played the game in spite of those elements, not because of those elements.
 
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Even Horizon release doesn’t make the old motorsport formula pointless ; we had open world racer already with TDU and yet forza and gt were still success.

I think what made more for those game far more than collecting was the large car choice and the fact you can tweak them, no other game had that feeling of making the cars your own and having your own garage.
 
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Besides, Horizon is the game you play when you just want to chill and enjoy the cars and countryside. If the physics was too realistic then off road and cross country would be no fun - you'd end up with a game close to mud runner which definitely wouldn't allow you to take any car you like and go anywhere.

And just look at the player numbers - Horizon is much more suitable for a large audience than Motorsport's track racing. So let the two of them have their own thing and just enjoy them both!
 
Asking for motorcycles in a Forza game is like asking pigs to fly.
He isn't just merely hanging onto this idea. This is a

SI_WiiVC_SuperHangOn_image1600w.jpg
 
There has been an attitude for a long time that "sim = difficult to drive" and "arcade = easier to drive, fun", but I've never agreed with it. Everyday people are able to drive real cars with no problems. I even saw a TV program where they put everyday people into an F1 car, and they were quickly able to judge the limit of grip on corners and corner at speeds similar to pro F1 drivers. There's no reason why FH6 should have any worse physics than FM, there's nothing difficult to drive about the cars in FM, indeed I find them easier to drive precisely because they drive more realistically.

The thing is, if we have:
FH series = open world, car collecting, carpg, weekly chores to unlock cars
FM series = race tracks, car collecting, carpg, weekly chores to unlock cars
then I see a 3rd game as being necessary:
3rd series = race tracks, true e-sports title with fair competition and equal access to equipment.
Otherwise I can't see there ever being a Forza game to compete with iRacing and ACC.


No, no, there was no Horizon series then. It's only pointless when you have another game that already has it in. If people want that same stuff in a game with real world tracks, just add those tracks into Horizon.

I'd also argue that the car collecting elements weren't what made the success of GT. When GT was released, it was simply the best driving game ever, regardless of the car collecting elements. I would have bought it on the day of release just the same if it gave you all cars at the start. In terms of real life friends at the time who also had the game, I didn't know a single person who thought the car collecting elements were anything other than a negative, an element that reduced their ability to enjoy the game. They played the game in spite of those elements, not because of those elements.
Most FM fans (probably all, but I don't have the stats haha) don't want FM to drive like FH

Turn 10 doesn't want FH to drive like FM. I'm betting the majority don't want it to drive like FM either.

Turn 10 isn't trying to compete with iRacing or ACC with FM.
 
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Most FM fans (probably all, but I don't have the stats haha) don't want FM to drive like FH

Turn 10 doesn't want FH to drive like FM. I'm betting the majority don't want it to drive like FM either.

Turn 10 isn't trying to compete with iRacing or ACC with FM.
Up to FM7, the driving models between the Horizon and Motorsport games felt closer, so transitioning between games was easier. Not so with their current iterations: FM on the gamepad feels so different, and things like brake fade, weight transfer, and tire degradation are real. Those really need not be a part of FH games, but honestly, its physics are fine by me for the most part.
 
There has been an attitude for a long time that "sim = difficult to drive" and "arcade = easier to drive, fun", but I've never agreed with it. Everyday people are able to drive real cars with no problems. I even saw a TV program where they put everyday people into an F1 car, and they were quickly able to judge the limit of grip on corners and corner at speeds similar to pro F1 drivers. There's no reason why FH6 should have any worse physics than FM, there's nothing difficult to drive about the cars in FM, indeed I find them easier to drive precisely because they drive more realistically.

The thing is, if we have:
FH series = open world, car collecting, carpg, weekly chores to unlock cars
FM series = race tracks, car collecting, carpg, weekly chores to unlock cars
then I see a 3rd game as being necessary:
3rd series = race tracks, true e-sports title with fair competition and equal access to equipment.
Otherwise I can't see there ever being a Forza game to compete with iRacing and ACC.


No, no, there was no Horizon series then. It's only pointless when you have another game that already has it in. If people want that same stuff in a game with real world tracks, just add those tracks into Horizon.

I'd also argue that the car collecting elements weren't what made the success of GT. When GT was released, it was simply the best driving game ever, regardless of the car collecting elements. I would have bought it on the day of release just the same if it gave you all cars at the start. In terms of real life friends at the time who also had the game, I didn't know a single person who thought the car collecting elements were anything other than a negative, an element that reduced their ability to enjoy the game. They played the game in spite of those elements, not because of those elements.
I know that, for me with the wheel, it is more natural with FM than FH. The dull side is because the tracks are like flat in FH (and in FM7 it is somewhat flat too but not the same feeling).

When the first FH came out, the physics were less detailed than the FM ones.
I think the open world takes more processor power, maybe the physics frequency is not the same (and it has impacts on the bumps).
And FH wants to be a fun game (not fun for me, it feels like false youth). I want a game for… gentlemen drivers ? Clean, precise, and the smell of all these beautiful cars, the feeling on the road or track.
I dont want to cut through fields, jump at 100m, I would prefer realistic damages because of the thrill, because of the clean driving it requires.
 
Turn 10 doesn't want FH to drive like FM. I'm betting the majority don't want it to drive like FM either.
To me, FM's physics is simply better in every way than FH5. It's more realistic and as a result easier to drive the cars, I can't understand why anyone would prefer FH5's physics to FM's if they tried both. When FM7 was current, the FH series clearly needed different physics, because FM7 had horrible physics with completely unrealistic fake difficulty. But they have fixed that with FM, it has massively better physics than FM7, and the cars are now easy to drive, just like cars in real life. Some of the stock tunes are still quite bad, they could do more work on those, but that applies to both FM and FH, neither series should have bad stock tunes for cars.
 
Could be quiet interesting to see how (or even if and then how far) they adapt FMs new physics to FH6. The new handling is one (probably the most important, maybe for some the only) good part of FM even with it's flaws (off-track handling f.e.).

FH also came a long way even handling was always fine. FH1 didn't even had tuning and you could only exchange parts but it still was absolutely fine on most cars.
 
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I think Forza Motorsport handles fine for the most part.

I would not want that handling in a Horizon game.

I would be totally happy if Forza Horizon 6 handled like Forza Horizon 5, and simply rebalanced the PI system so that different builds could get to meta.
 
I would be totally happy if Forza Horizon 6 handled like Forza Horizon 5, and simply rebalanced the PI system so that different builds could get to meta.
The thing I really hate in FH5 is how cars go into a slide going into corners and don't re-gain grip. It's just so completely fake difficulty. FM's behaviour under braking into corners is so much better - much more realistic and much easier to drive. Also, the input lag in FH5 is sky high. People who play it a lot might not notice because they've adapted to it, but FM's input lag is significantly better. I had a friend try FH5 on my PC and he just couldn't deal with the input lag in the time he spent trying it, he was constantly holding his inputs too long because he was waiting to see the car doing what he wanted it to do, but by that time it's too late because of the input lag. It would be nice if they could get FM's input lag down even more from where it is, as it's still noticeably much worse than ACC's input lag.
 
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I would personally love to see FH with the exact same handling model that FM2023 has, that road up the mountain in FH5 would be a blast on a wheel with the FM handling model. Failing that, any improvements to wheel handling in the next FH will be welcome, driving with a wheel was fun enough, but in contrast to FM2023, it was just too hard for me to drive fast with a wheel, and I ended up reverting to controller anytime I needed to be fast. Also I feel like with the popularity of Assetto Corsa touge and cruising maps, there is certainly an appetite for this.
 
I would personally love to see FH with the exact same handling model that FM2023 has, that road up the mountain in FH5 would be a blast on a wheel with the FM handling model. Failing that, any improvements to wheel handling in the next FH will be welcome, driving with a wheel was fun enough, but in contrast to FM2023, it was just too hard for me to drive fast with a wheel, and I ended up reverting to controller anytime I needed to be fast. Also I feel like with the popularity of Assetto Corsa touge and cruising maps, there is certainly an appetite for this.
I've personally such a hard time enjoying FH5 now that I've gotten used to FM '23 on my wheel. Many of the roads are great in FH5, like the volcano and the Devil's Pass, on the rally expansion map. But the physics, and feeling/ffb, just feels so flat and undetailed in comparison.

Because of this I really long for a Togue-/Mountain map in Forza Motorsport. The rumoured return of Fujimi Kaido, or Hakone Mountain Circuit as it perhaps will be called this time, would be such a delight with the new physics.

I found this today in ConnerSpeed6's comments section:
Screenshot_20240227-143625_YouTube.jpg

Allegedly a former T10 employee has told him that Fujimi Kaido will make a return in FM '23. For now it's all speculation and rumours, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.
 
FM on the gamepad feels so different, and things like brake fade, weight transfer, and tire degradation are real. Those really need not be a part of FH games, but honestly, its physics are fine by me for the most part.
To be clear, when I talk about "physics", I'm talking about the code/equations, rather than parameter values. So the improved tyre model with more contact points modelled, and the higher frequency at which the physics runs, those are the kinds of thing I'm talking about when I say FH6 could use FM's physics. The better tyre model and higher frequency should make it handle uneven ground in the FH series much better. Chris showed in one of the live streams how much better it works over uneven kerbs with the greater number of contact points and higher frequency, and those same improvements should also benefit off-road driving in the FH series, even more so, really, due to how much more often uneven terrain is encountered. I don't think anyone would see those things as worse than how they are in FH5, as they would just give a more detailed, more intuitive, more enjoyable driving experience.

Things like tyre degradation, or grip level on grass, are just parameter values that could be made different in FH6, e.g. set tyre wear to zero, while using the same code/equations as in FM.

People I know in real life who casually play driving games are always primarily interested in the driving experience - realistic graphics, and it feeling like driving a real car, so my belief is that these people would appreciate more realistic physics, even in the FH series. I've never known a single person in real life who has ever talked about wanting to spend time obtaining cars or making upgrades available, they just want to enjoy the driving experience.
 
When you put it like that, the underlying physics engine being incorporated into FH6 along with improvements to the accuracy of the Xbox controller that we get in FM23 would be very welcome indeed.

As you point out, FM7 with the controller felt less accurate than FH4/FH5, but FM23 feels more accurate than any older Forza game. That iteration is good to see and should make it to FH6.
 
The new FM has some amazing physics but I do still have problems with the lack of Turn in.
It is just hard for me to imagine that a car like the F8 Tributo would have so much problems with turning into a corner at 80 km/H.

What I do really like is the feeling of weight transfer while cornering. A good example is the last Chicane of Mugello.


Despite being disappointed about the game (Mostly Graphics) I have clocked a lot of hours into it. There is some addicting magic going on in the handling model.
 
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The new FM has some amazing physics but I do still have problems with the lack of Turn in.
It is just hard for me to imagine that a car like the F8 Tributo would have so much problems with turning into a corner at 80 km/H.
Yes, the new physics have improved in a lot of areas but tire bite is one area it is still off in and it heavily impacts turn in. That's why we still have to run very unrealistic setups that follow the same sort of "philosophy" we were using in FM7.

I do wonder if it's a bit of a design choice for the game being primarily made for controller drivers. I know from trying to use the controller on games like PC2 and AC that the first thing I generally did setup-wise was try to dial out that bite and make it less pointy.
 
My Brother says that the physics in GT7 are Better then in FM, i don't think so.
I find there is not much difference on both Games.
We play with Controllers and he says that the GT7 is more responsive...
 
My Brother says that the physics in GT7 are Better then in FM, i don't think so.
I find there is not much difference on both Games.
We play with Controllers and he says that the GT7 is more responsive...
Any extra responsiveness could be down to PS5 controllers featuring haptic feedback. If so, then it's nothing to do with physics. Xbox are due to release an updated haptic controller according to a leak last year.
 
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