Gene Haas' new American F1 team

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Testing was banned until this season, and that is the real money burner, Wind Tunnel use been limited for a while and CFD is now limited. I don't see how anyone could spend that much money.

We have all heard rumoured numbers from various sources but what is it all being spent on if not the already limited stuff?
 
Testing was banned until this season, and that is the real money burner, Wind Tunnel use been limited for a while and CFD is now limited. I don't see how anyone could spend that much money.

We have all heard rumoured numbers from various sources but what is it all being spent on if not the already limited stuff?

It made be limited but it doesn't stop the massive amounts of investing that goes into them along with the simulators, and though you don't see how it can, that's not the point. They are doing it and doing it on these key items as well as other technologies. Also I doubt they'll tell you detail for detail what they're spending it on because in doing so they'd have to address how much they spent.
 
Are you a senior executive at BMW?

If not, then I am very curious as to how you know details of their strategy. But then, I have noticed that you have a bad habit of making broad, sweeping generalisations without evidence.
How have BMW been going to crap for years now, that sounds very subjective yet acts as if it is some sort of fact, so how exactly are they?
Let me see. Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault. Hmm...Nope, no BMW.

Thanks for the laugh by the way. I don't rule you guys out going to a race with a suitcase full of documents and "evidence" just in case any discussion comes up :lol:.

"BMW going to ****" is an argument for another thread, but I'll make it simple. Look at their road cars. Increased price, dead electric steering(from what I heard about the M235), increased weight and recently one of their officials said they're pushing for more shared platforms. All of those are the opposite of what BMW used to stand for. It's almost like BMW are becoming Audi, Audi are becoming Mercedes and Mercedes are becoming BMW.
 
Let me see. Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault. Hmm...Nope, no BMW.

You can list manufactures that are supplying engines right now...really doesn't prove anything.

Thanks for the laugh by the way. I don't rule you guys out going to a race with a suitcase full of documents and "evidence" just in case any discussion comes up :lol:.

Not sure what the hell you're talking about here or what you're on, must be quite potent.

"BMW going to ****" is an argument for another thread, but I'll make it simple. Look at their road cars. Increased price, dead electric steering(from what I heard about the M235), increased weight and recently one of their officials said they're pushing for more shared platforms. All of those are the opposite of what BMW used to stand for. It's almost like BMW are becoming Audi, Audi are becoming Mercedes and Mercedes are becoming BMW.


So you "hear", did you actually research it or find actual peer reviews articles expressing this? Also increased weight and pushing for shared platforms doesn't mean they're going to crap, that latter sounds like a good business plan to make even more money (e.g. VW). Also I don't see how any of that is true in your last statement but you tend to be whimsical and dramatic with this type of stuff, so I doubt you'll explain in any great or logical detail.
 
You can list manufactures that are supplying engines right now...really doesn't prove anything.
Clearly F1 hasn't been in BMW's motorsport strategy, otherwise we'd have at least heard otherwise since they left.

Not sure what the hell you're talking about here or what you're on, must be quite potent.
Every time one of you guys here bring up "evidence", or "citation" I laugh. I imagine watching a race with you, then suddenly you take out a suitcase full of documents and articles to "prove" your point in discussing what we see.


So you "hear", did you actually research it or find actual peer reviews articles expressing this? Also increased weight and pushing for shared platforms doesn't mean they're going to crap, that latter sounds like a good business plan to make even more money (e.g. VW). Also I don't see how any of that is true in your last statement but you tend to be whimsical and dramatic with this type of stuff, so I doubt you'll explain in any great or logical detail.
1) I heard, and many of the reviewers backed it up. As mentioned, I don't keep an archive of evidence to talk about these things, but I think Road&Track were the most critical of the 235i's steering. Personally, I hadn't been more excited for a new car in years. I put ahead plans to buy the 235i but it looks like I'll have to test drive it myself when our dealership brings it over.
2) VW's bit with making more money at the cost of customer satisfaction= going to ****. Be it by sharing platforms, or increasing prices.
3) I'm pretty sure BMW itself had once made fun of its German competitors for sharing platforms. It's one of the reasons BMWs used to be so much better to drive. Now they're doing the same. How is that not going backwards?


edit

It's not just the 235 by the looks of it, btw. The new M3/M4 is getting the same electric steering. I bring up the 235 because it's the only reasonable option where I live. The E92 M3 here cost as much as a 911 GT3, and the M4 looks to match the 991 GT3 in the price too. Just knowing that puts me off.
 
Clearly F1 hasn't been in BMW's motorsport strategy, otherwise we'd have at least heard otherwise since they left.

Why would we exactly? I'm not a shareholder I highly doubt you're one, so why exactly would they need to announce to the world that they are accessing F1? HAAS had supposedly been assessing for a while with his partner and he only announced wanting to join when it was actually relevant, which was a short time before submitting his financial review to the FIA late last year/earlier this year. I'm sure many groups make decisions on a weekly basis without going to the press.

Every time one of you guys here bring up "evidence", or "citation" I laugh. I imagine watching a race with you, then suddenly you take out a suitcase full of documents and articles to "prove" your point in discussing what we see.

Not sure what you do for a living, and at this point I couldn't careless. Yet the forum here states that if you're going to make a claim you need to prove it. Thus those of us who respect the forum rules do this, on or own or when asked to do so in the context of needing to. That is how intellectual debates/conversations work. If you don't like that then don't bother joining because you obviously don't want to follow AUP. It's a simple question, are you privy to the knowledge or just making up what you think? Because if you're doing the last bit, that is also against AUP.

1) I heard, and many of the reviewers backed it up. As mentioned, I don't keep an archive of evidence to talk about these things, but I think Road&Track were the most critical of the 235i's steering. Personally, I hadn't been more excited for a new car in years. I put ahead plans to buy the 235i but it looks like I'll have to test drive it myself when our dealership brings it over.
2) VW's bit with making more money at the cost of customer satisfaction= going to ****. Be it by sharing platforms, or increasing prices.
3) I'm pretty sure BMW itself had once made fun of its German competitors for sharing platforms. It's one of the reasons BMWs used to be so much better to drive. Now they're doing the same. How is that not going backwards?

Well this is the first I've heard of it and I never saw any massive recall on it so that's why I wanted an actual link or something saying this.

BMW has always been an expensive car to a degree, and actually they're not all that expensive so I don't know where or what model you're seeing this price leap. Also sharing platforms, especially a good one generally tends to bode well for everyone especially if it becomes a VW situation.

Because obviously BMW seeing some monetary loss in not doing it and thus the joke is then on them, being pretentious though cool to you doesn't make a competent group or car. Also BMW is still pushing technology and still going out and racing and trying new things, so I don't see how they lost their image at all.
 
Why would we exactly? I'm not a shareholder I highly doubt you're one, so why exactly would they need to announce to the world that they are accessing F1? HAAS had supposedly been assessing for a while with his partner and he only announced wanting to join when it was actually relevant, which was a short time before submitting his financial review to the FIA late last year/earlier this year. I'm sure many groups make decisions on a weekly basis without going to the press.
Why don't YOU, or the guy that started this, give a citation of some sort that indicates BMW are going back to F1. This was my original post. I simply asked where the guy heard the rumor.

The fact is, BMW cut off their involvement with F1 some time ago. MAYBE, just maybe, they're discussing going back internally. I haven't seen any statement or even legit rumor that says otherwise.


Not sure what you do for a living, and at this point I couldn't careless. Yet the forum here states that if you're going to make a claim you need to prove it. Thus those of us who respect the forum rules do this, on or own or when asked to do so in the context of needing to. That is how intellectual debates/conversations work. If you don't like that then don't bother joining because you obviously don't want to follow AUP. It's a simple question, are you privy to the knowledge or just making up what you think? Because if you're doing the last bit, that is also against AUP.
This isn't a court room, is it? I must be lost.

Quoting "sources" is easy, but do I have to do it every time I say the the earth isn't flat? If that's what the AUP states, I'm out :lol:

Well this is the first I've heard of it and I never saw any massive recall on it so that's why I wanted an actual link or something saying this.
Recall? Why would they recall the car??? The steering is simply lifeless, it's not like it's a glitch. I only hope they patch their software for the M3/M4 that I'm not planning on buying anyway.


BMW has always been an expensive car to a degree, and actually they're not all that expensive so I don't know where or what model you're seeing this price leap. Also sharing platforms, especially a good one generally tends to bode well for everyone especially if it becomes a VW situation.
German cars are cheap in the US, I noticed. How much is an M3 there, 60k? That can't even buy a Lexus IS300 here. I don't know if this has always been the case though. I used to think it was only in Bahrain, but people from Europe said the same happened to them. BMWs used to be the cheapest of the 3 (Audi, Merc). Now it's the most expensive. Especially in the middle east. Like I said, look up how much the 991 GT3 is priced where you live, and tell me it isn't ridiculous to spend that much on an M3.


Because obviously BMW seeing some monetary loss in not doing it and thus the joke is then on them, being pretentious though cool to you doesn't make a competent group or car. Also BMW is still pushing technology and still going out and racing and trying new things, so I don't see how they lost their image at all.
Either you haven't driven the last generation of the German trio, or you haven't been following professional reviews. The only complement that I can say about the 2005+ BMWs is the power delivery. Everywhere else they seems to have gone backwards.

edit

Excpet the steering. They're only going backwards now, starting with the 235.
 
Why don't YOU, or the guy that started this, give a citation of some sort that indicates BMW are going back to F1. This was my original post. I simply asked where the guy heard the rumor.

I'm not defending that guy nor did I make the claim they were come back or not coming back. In either case evidence should be provided. All I've asked is if you are going to state a fact give proof, as AUP dictates and because we as fans would probably like to know what to expect or not expect as a probability.

The fact is, BMW cut off their involvement with F1 some time ago. MAYBE, just maybe, they're discussing going back internally. I haven't seen any statement or even legit rumor that says otherwise.

Yeah we know that's the fact, but just like Honda cut ties they have returned and same can be said about the rumors that Ford may return and they've been gone even longer than BMW.

This isn't a court room, is it? I must be lost.

Quoting "sources" is easy, but do I have to do it every time I say the the earth isn't flat? If that's what the AUP states, I'm out :lol:

Bye then.

Recall? Why would they recall the car??? The steering is simply lifeless, it's not like it's a glitch. I only hope they patch their software for the M3/M4 that I'm not planning on buying anyway.

Because if the electric steering is out that is a major issue in the software of the car and something that dealership would fix. . Just recently with my Nissan, there was a electronic issue and a recall notice was sent out and last year I took it in to be safe. That's how automotive companies work.

German cars are cheap in the US, I noticed. How much is an M3 there, 60k? That can't even buy a Lexus IS300 here. I don't know if this has always been the case though. I used to think it was only in Bahrain, but people from Europe said the same happened to them. BMWs used to be the cheapest of the 3 (Audi, Merc). Now it's the most expensive. Especially in the middle east. Like I said, look up how much the 991 GT3 is priced where you live, and tell me it isn't ridiculous to spend that much on an M3.

Depends on your definition of cheap, and if you can find an M3 here for under 65k lucky you and that's with options which is not what you find when you go buy it at a dealership.

Either you haven't driven the last generation of the German trio, or you haven't been following professional reviews. The only complement that I can say about the 2005+ BMWs is the power delivery. Everywhere else they seems to have gone backwards.

I keep up with the cars all the time, I even made a thread here a couple years ago on the M3, reviews on handling are subjective and this is apparent when one professional group loves it and another doesn't. I haven't driven any of the newer BMWs and I don't see how me not driving them makes my point moot. Especially when it had nothing about driving in it.

edit

Excpet the steering. They're only going backwards now, starting with the 235.

Okay
 
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I'm not defending that guy nor did I make the claim they were come back or not coming back. In either case evidence should be provided. All I've asked is if you are going to state a fact give proof, as AUP dictates and because we as fans would probably like to know what to expect or not expect as a probability.
....? Why are you asking me for proof then? How can you prove something that isn't there? I'm not the one that proposed BMW were coming back.


Yeah we know that's the fact, but just like Honda cut ties they have returned and same can be said about the rumors that Ford may return and they've been gone even longer than BMW.
Ok? Again, maybe they're coming back. I'd like to know if they are, but so far I've seen nothing.

Bye then.
I considered ignoring the F1 threads after reading a few posts post-Malaysia qualifying, but I thought I'd see how it goes.

Because if the electric steering is out that is a major issue in the software of the car and something that dealership would fix. . Just recently with my Nissan, there was a electronic issue and a recall notice was sent out and last year I took it in to be safe. That's how automotive companies work.
It's not an issue with the software, it's the way they wanted it to be. They claim their test drivers didn't feel a difference to the hydraulic steering, but that's probably because they tuned it for their dry test track anyway. Hey, if they patch it up and make it as good as the new GT3's, it's all good.


Depends on your definition of cheap, and if you can find an M3 here for under 65k lucky you and that's with options which is not what you find when you go buy it at a dealership.
At bimmerpost a lot of Americans managed to buy it around ~65. That is relatively cheap. Obviously it's not Toyota echo cheap, hence "relatively".

I keep up with the cars all the time, I even made a thread here a couple years ago on the M3, reviews on handling are subjective and this is apparent when one professional group loves it and another doesn't. I haven't driven any of the newer BMWs and I don't see how me not driving them makes my point moot. Especially when it had nothing about driving in it.



Okay
How many professionals have you followed, prefer the E92 M3 over the E46 CSL? Or the new FXX M5 compared to any of the old ones?
 
....? Why are you asking me for proof then? How can you prove something that isn't there? I'm not the one that proposed BMW were coming back.

No, you were the one that said they weren't planning and coming back hence why this started. The other user actually had a claim because Minardi supposedly said they were looking to come back, thus the burden of proof false on Minardi and not users who are just quoting his word. Unless you have Minardi's number so I can grill him, I will not be asking the user to further prove BMW is coming back. However, I haven't seen anything supporting your claim hence why I'm asking. I'll ask one last time can I please get a source to this info?

Ok? Again, maybe they're coming back. I'd like to know if they are, but so far I've seen nothing.

I just gave you a person who made this claim.

I considered ignoring the F1 threads after reading a few posts post-Malaysia qualifying, but I thought I'd see how it goes.

Okay.

It's not an issue with the software, it's the way they wanted it to be. They claim their test drivers didn't feel a difference to the hydraulic steering, but that's probably because they tuned it for their dry test track anyway. Hey, if they patch it up and make it as good as the new GT3's, it's all good.

I'm just going off your info on this but you said the system failed, then you called it a glitch, and now you're saying it's a manufacture of design to do what it does that you don't like. So which is it because all three are quite different.


At bimmerpost a lot of Americans managed to buy it around ~65. That is relatively cheap. Obviously it's not Toyota echo cheap, hence "relatively".

Maybe it's where you live or what not, but it's quite arrogant to think that 65k is somehow cheap. I guess what you're trying to say is it's cheap compared to other markets it's sold in. That's how the idea of relativity works not the analogy you used.


How many professionals have you followed, prefer the E92 M3 over the E46 CSL? Or the new FXX M5 compared to any of the old ones?

I don't know it'd probably take me the next 3 to 5 days to dig through all my MT, R&T, Euro car, Automobile and Car and Driver to see exactly.
 
No, you were the one that said they weren't planning and coming back hence why this started. The other user actually had a claim because Minardi supposedly said they were looking to come back, thus the burden of proof false on Minardi and not users who are just quoting his word. Unless you have Minardi's number so I can grill him, I will not be asking the user to further prove BMW is coming back. However, I haven't seen anything supporting your claim hence why I'm asking. I'll ask one last time can I please get a source to this info?
It's either you have a terrible memory or you lack focus. This is the post I responded to:

Talking about engines Honda & BMW plus Ford/Cosworth are talking about their returning motor programs. Depending on what happens this year I wouldn't just buy a motor from anyone other then Mercedes right now!

---

I'm just going off your info on this but you said the system failed, then you called it a glitch, and now you're saying it's a manufacture of design to do what it does that you don't like. So which is it because all three are quite different.
..what? Read my posts again. I said "It's not like it's a glitch" and I never said the system failed. One of us is drunk.

Maybe it's where you live or what not, but it's quite arrogant to think that 65k is somehow cheap. I guess what you're trying to say is it's cheap compared to other markets it's sold in. That's how the idea of relativity works not the analogy you used.
...Yes. The same way an R35 is "cheap". It also has to do with the market here. A lot of cars have had their prices exponentially increased over the years.

I don't know it'd probably take me the next 3 to 5 days to dig through all my MT, R&T, Euro car, Automobile and Car and Driver to see exactly.
Please spare yourself. I genuinely feel sorry for you guys when put that much effort into these things. If you do so to compensate for memory, I guess it's ok, but don't bother in this case.

edit

I follow MT, CarandDriver and R&T. I can assure you they share my opinion about new BMW.
 
I don't rule you guys out going to a race with a suitcase full of documents and "evidence" just in case any discussion comes up
No, we just bother to read things before we post. We don't come into these threads making broad, sweeping statements, and nor do we make the mistake of thinking that because we have an opinion, we are somehow experts on the subject.
 
No, we just bother to read things before we post. We don't come into these threads making broad, sweeping statements, and nor do we make the mistake of thinking that because we have an opinion, we are somehow experts on the subject.
That's the problem with you. Too much reading and not much actually watching the events. Copy/paste job from what you read does not make you a professional fan. Trying watching an event and analyzing things on your own, it's more fun.

If you're referring to the BMW thing, god help you. It was you that made the proposition they're coming back, you provide the "evidence". Not me.
 
The way you do? All I have ever seen you do is post something inaccurate and/or generalised, then go on the offensive when people question you on it. That's not fun.
Ohh the irony. If I link a post where I say something accurate or not generalized will you stop this?
 
That's the problem with you. Too much reading and not much actually watching the events. Copy/paste job from what you read does not make you a professional fan. Trying watching an event and analyzing things on your own, it's more fun.

If you're referring to the BMW thing, god help you. It was you that made the proposition they're coming back, you provide the "evidence". Not me.

Um we didn't make that proposition...once again why do we have to provide evidence. And I already told you the source that said they were coming back, you obviously aren't paying attention even though supposedly we aren't.
 
It's either you have a terrible memory or you lack focus. This is the post I responded to:



---

I'm not talking about that I'm talking about this...you're obviously trying to deflect and change the subject because you don't have a source and are just making up what you may have heard on other forums that also weren't backed up with proof.
Their current motorsports strategy doesn't involve F1. They implied it's not impossible, but they denied.

..what? Read my posts again. I said "It's not like it's a glitch" and I never said the system failed. One of us is drunk.
"BMW going to ****" is an argument for another thread, but I'll make it simple. Look at their road cars. Increased price, dead electric steering(from what I heard about the M235)
Recall? Why would they recall the car??? The steering is simply lifeless, it's not like it's a glitch. I only hope they patch their software for the M3/M4 that I'm not planning on buying anyway.

IF it needs a patch then it is a glitch or error in the software/coding. So yeah you indirectly did even though you tried to say it wasn't. Not sure if you know how programming works. If it's dead that would mean there is a failure in the system...

You making the claim of one of us being inebriated is unnecessary and yet another deflection.

...Yes. The same way an R35 is "cheap". It also has to do with the market here. A lot of cars have had their prices exponentially increased over the years.

Once again correct rhetoric would make this go much smoother, if you had said compared on a market basis the cars sold in NA region are cheaper to others I wouldn't have questioned you. Also cars jump in price over the years due to economics. Hence why new cars don't sell for 4000 USD and more like 60k USD, so it's obvious cars have seen an increase...

Please spare yourself. I genuinely feel sorry for you guys when put that much effort into these things. If you do so to compensate for memory, I guess it's ok, but don't bother in this case.

Do so to compensate for memory? What? My memory is quite fine, and I have to do proving of this degree and higher all the time in the real world so not sure why you feel sorry for me when it's my living...

edit

I follow MT, CarandDriver and R&T. I can assure you they share my opinion about new BMW.

I listed more than that, and I'll read for myself, as @prisonermonkeys put it best you aren't something I'd recommend people take assurance from, no offense.
 
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Ohh the irony. If I link a post where I say something accurate or not generalized will you stop this?
Stop what? Asking you to hold yourself to the same standard as everyone else? You demand hard evidence from anyone who contradicts your inexpert observations, but you provide no evidence of your own to substantiate your posts. The end result is that you come across as a know-it-all and what should be a friendly discussion degenerates into mud-slinging.
 
Um we didn't make that proposition...once again why do we have to provide evidence. And I already told you the source that said they were coming back, you obviously aren't paying attention even though supposedly we aren't.
@joetruckv8 made that proposition, I asked for a source. I received none. If F1 was in BMW's strategy we would see BMW engines in F1, or at least get an official statement. Which, again, is what I asked for.


I'm not talking about that I'm talking about this...you're obviously trying to deflect and change the subject because you don't have a source and are just making up what you may have heard on other forums that also weren't backed up with proof.
"If F1 was in BMW's strategy we would see BMW engines in F1, or at least get an official statement. Which, again, is what I asked for. "

You don't need a source for that. Do you have a source that says the human species are not part of plan conducted by aliens?

Once again correct rhetoric would make this go much smoother, if you had said compared on a market basis the cars sold in NA region are cheaper to others I wouldn't have questioned you.
..And your explanation for directly misquoting me regarding the 235's steering?

You have a knack for reading my posts backwards.
Also cars jump in price over the years due to economics. Hence why new cars don't sell for 4000 USD and more like 60k USD, so it's obvious cars have seen an increase...
Do you never read between the lines? Do I have to explicitly mention everything and add sources too? I said BMW became the most expensive MORE THAN OTHERS. I know everything is getting more expensive, but some are much more than others. In the middle east (and apparently Europe), BMW are getting ridiculously overpriced.


Do so to compensate for memory? What? My memory is quite fine,
You misquoted/misremembered what I said. Also on numerous occasions you forget things that hard to believe someone could forget. The most recent one I recall is Rosberg's front wing falling in. It was only months ago and you confused it with another track with such confidence I actually doubted myself and looked it up to make sure.


and I have to do proving of this degree and higher all the time in the real world so not sure why you feel sorry for me when it's my living...

Then it must suck having to do it online too.
I listed more than that, and I'll read for myself, as @prisonermonkeys put it best you aren't something I'd recommend people take assurance from, no offense.
None taken.

Here, I'll help you with one.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/10-things-you-need-to-know-2014-bmw-m235i

"But I can tell you that you could hydroplane up a mountain pass at 80 mph in pouring, 33-degree-Fahrenheit rain and not even know that your front tires were floating above an inch-deep water-filled truck groove.

In fact, you’ll only know this later when your friend Mike, driving in the 12-year-old VW in front of you, calls on Bluetooth, laughing that his traction-control light hadn’t stopped flashing for a solid mile. You’ll be all, “Huh? There’s a rut there?” He felt it in his steering. Though he couldn’t see it, he knew exactly when he crossed over it. You didn’t even know it was there. You felt nothing."


OMG OMG I USED A SOURCE!
Stop what? Asking you to hold yourself to the same standard as everyone else? You demand hard evidence from anyone who contradicts your inexpert observations, but you provide no evidence of your own to substantiate your posts. The end result is that you come across as a know-it-all and what should be a friendly discussion degenerates into mud-slinging.
I mainly post in F1 discussions, and I honestly don't remember asking for hard evidence except maybe on couple of occasions. In BMW/F1's case, yes I did because I was genuinely interested in seeing where you guys got it from.

Oh and I don't think most of my posts need substantiation. If anything I was shocked quite a few times when I saw your reactions. I had thought I was stating the obvious. Things like "Driver said he had this issue" don't need a freakin' source. It was on TV. Do I have to go through F1 news websites, look for a transcript of some sort and use it as a source?

edit

Know it all? Really? How many times have I asked for info I may have missed?
 
@joetruckv8 made that proposition, I asked for a source. I received none. If F1 was in BMW's strategy we would see BMW engines in F1, or at least get an official statement. Which, again, is what I asked for.

Once again why would we? Things usually start as rumors, like Ferrari wanting to go back to the highest class of sports car racing and then they finally said "yeah we're thinking about it." For the third time I've given you the name of the source who claimed they were assessing a return. Beyond that @joetruckv8 doesn't have anything to prove.

"If F1 was in BMW's strategy we would see BMW engines in F1, or at least get an official statement. Which, again, is what I asked for. "

You don't need a source for that. Do you have a source that says the human species are not part of plan conducted by aliens?

If someone is trying to pass it off as fact then yes there would need to be a source hence why the smart ass analogy you used actually has an effort to prove the "ancient alien theory", which is more than you've done after stating something as fact then trying diligently to revert it back to an opinion while still trying to make it a fact...

..And your explanation for directly misquoting me regarding the 235's steering?

I didn't misquote you those are all things you've said, and my reply is a normal reply to how someone would see or understand what you are saying or perhaps implying. If I did misquote you I suggest you report my post. I would.

You have a knack for reading my posts backwards.

It must be a common trend, because you said the same thing of other users as well (e.g. PM)

Do you never read between the lines? Do I have to explicitly mention everything and add sources too? I said BMW became the most expensive MORE THAN OTHERS. I know everything is getting more expensive, but some are much more than others. In the middle east (and apparently Europe), BMW are getting ridiculously overpriced.

Should I have to, I didn't know this was a courting ceremony and I was trying to get you to go on a date with me. Also yes if you state BMW are more expensive than others you need to prove it, it needs to be quantified :lol:. You can't just shoot off random opinions as facts.

You misquoted/misremembered what I said. Also on numerous occasions you forget things that hard to believe someone could forget. The most recent one I recall is Rosberg's front wing falling in. It was only months ago and you confused it with another track with such confidence I actually doubted myself and looked it up to make sure.

Um you'd be wrong I myself wasn't sure and actually I went back and checked it to make sure you were right, I even have the post.
brake*

Didn't this happen to Rosberg in Korea last year, or was it different this time? Has anyone seen footage?
Yeah don't need the typo fix BHR, it's 6 am in the morning here and I'm just waking up for class...

And it did happen but I'm not sure if it was Korea...

EDIT:

Checked and it was

Yeah I sure did confuse it with another track, and look at the massive amount of confidence I have too.
FACEPALM.gif


Then it must suck having to do it online too.

Because you say so? I don't have to do anything but if people want to have an intellectual conversation on matter which is what GTP strives for (to me) then I expect it from others.

Here, I'll help you with one.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/10-things-you-need-to-know-2014-bmw-m235i

"But I can tell you that you could hydroplane up a mountain pass at 80 mph in pouring, 33-degree-Fahrenheit rain and not even know that your front tires were floating above an inch-deep water-filled truck groove.

In fact, you’ll only know this later when your friend Mike, driving in the 12-year-old VW in front of you, calls on Bluetooth, laughing that his traction-control light hadn’t stopped flashing for a solid mile. You’ll be all, “Huh? There’s a rut there?” He felt it in his steering. Though he couldn’t see it, he knew exactly when he crossed over it. You didn’t even know it was there. You felt nothing."


OMG OMG I USED A SOURCE!

Finally, was that so hard?

I mainly post in F1 discussions, and I honestly don't remember asking for hard evidence except maybe on couple of occasions. In BMW/F1's case, yes I did because I was genuinely interested in seeing where you guys got it from.

Oh and I don't think most of my posts need substantiation. If anything I was shocked quite a few times when I saw your reactions. I had thought I was stating the obvious. Things like "Driver said he had this issue" don't need a freakin' source. It was on TV. Do I have to go through F1 news websites, look for a transcript of some sort and use it as a source?

Well that's fine, and you'd be right to ask for a source from the user in question, but you don't ask for a source and then state something in return that also needs a source. And then when questioned throw your crayons against the wall as if getting picked on. You aren't anyone special and you don't get to play some double standard.

Um when did I ask you to provide a source for what a driver said on TV? Don't misquote me after crying wolf that me and another user are misquoting you. AT least I gave you the respect to go back and pull up your post and requote them to show you why I'm understanding things the way I am in regards to your writing.
 
Once again why would we? Things usually start as rumors, like Ferrari wanting to go back to the highest class of sports car racing and then they finally said "yeah we're thinking about it." For the third time I've given you the name of the source who claimed they were assessing a return. Beyond that @joetruckv8 doesn't have anything to prove.
Prove? What the heck? So if I came on and said Michael Schumacher is back up and signed a contract with Ferrari next year, you'll just consider it a rumor and not ask for a source? If it was just something he heard, he can say so and I'll let it go. I just wanted to know if there was a piece of news I missed. God forbid.


If someone is trying to pass it off as fact then yes there would need to be a source hence why the smart ass analogy you used actually has an effort to prove the "ancient alien theory", which is more than you've done after stating something as fact then trying diligently to revert it back to an opinion while still trying to make it a fact...
It is a fact that F1 isn't part of BMW's strategy and you don't need proof. I'm baffled. Are jet fighters a part of Lamborghini's strategy? No. Why? No ****ing Lamborghini jet fighters, and nobody announced they have plans to make any.


I didn't misquote you those are all things you've said, and my reply is a normal reply to how someone would see or understand what you are saying or perhaps implying. If I did misquote you I suggest you report my post. I would.
I don't like reporting posts every chance I get. It's amazing how trigger happy you guys are with these things.

Here's the misquote


you said the system failed,
When? By calling it dead? Dead steering is an expression that it doesn't provide feedback Mr. Expert.

then you called it a glitch,
Nope, I said it's NOT a glitch. Here:
Recall? Why would they recall the car??? The steering is simply lifeless, it's not like it's a glitch. I only hope they patch their software for the M3/M4 that I'm not planning on buying anyway.

-------------

It must be a common trend, because you said the same thing of other users as well (e.g. PM)
There's quite a few of you that always to either mis-read what I post or scream for proof, yes. PM is one of them.


Should I have to, I didn't know this was a courting ceremony and I was trying to get you to go on a date with me. Also yes if you state BMW are more expensive than others you need to prove it, it needs to be quantified :lol:. You can't just shoot off random opinions as facts.
Yes you have to, I made it pretty damn clear I took inflation under consideration. You chose to nitpick what I said by claiming I didn't.

The BMW discussion is way off topic here, as I said in my first response to you. I'm trying to minimize the discussion. Besides, it isn't something hard to quantify. If you look at most of their models side by side, you'll find that BMW > Audi = Merc. In the past BMW was noticeably cheaper. Either take that or don't. If you expect me to drive to the local dealers and ask them for pricing history, you're insane.


Um you'd be wrong I myself wasn't sure and actually I went back and checked it to make sure you were right, I even have the post.


Yeah I sure did confuse it with another track, and look at the massive amount of confidence I have too.
FACEPALM.gif
Ok, then it must've been another incident where you sounded confident. My bad. I was thrown off by niky's post in the Bahrain GP saying the Schumi/Barrichello incident happened at the wall of champions.


Because you say so? I don't have to do anything but if people want to have an intellectual conversation on matter which is what GTP strives for (to me) then I expect it from others.
There are certain topics and places where you can have "intellectual conversation". A grand prix, on an internet forum is not one of them. If it's your thing spending countless hours gathering "proof" and archiving it just so you can share an opinion(which does not require proof), go ahead. Whatever makes you happy. Really. Just don't expect me to do that. It's one of the reasons I don't post as much here unless I'm very tempted to. Such as when someone said "Lewis is in another league" in the Chinese GP thread. Things like that make me cringe.


Finally, was that so hard?
Did it really make that much of a difference to you? Honestly if every time I went out with a friend and said something, then got asked to provide proof, I'd have gotten a stroke a long time ago.


Well that's fine, and you'd be right to ask for a source from the user in question, but you don't ask for a source and then state something in return that also needs a source. And then when questioned throw your crayons against the wall as if getting picked on. You aren't anyone special and you don't get to play some double standard.
Earlier in the same post you said he doesn't need to provide proof. Now you're saying I was right to ask. Ok.

As for the the strategy bit, covered. Won't respond to it again. Sorry.

Um when did I ask you to provide a source for what a driver said on TV? Don't misquote me after crying wolf that me and another user are misquoting you. AT least I gave you the respect to go back and pull up your post and requote them to show you why I'm understanding things the way I am in regards to your writing.
I quoted your post too :) We happy?
 
Prove? What the heck? So if I came on and said Michael Schumacher is back up and signed a contract with Ferrari next year, you'll just consider it a rumor and not ask for a source? If it was just something he heard, he can say so and I'll let it go. I just wanted to know if there was a piece of news I missed. God forbid.

Once again I gave you the person who said it GIANCARLO MINARDI, so now it is clear that you most likely only skimmed my post if you're still asking I only said it 3 or 4 different times. And yes, if you said that rumor or not I'd ask where you got it from. I gave you the source of where his rumor was from.

It is a fact that F1 isn't part of BMW's strategy and you don't need proof. I'm baffled. Are jet fighters a part of Lamborghini's strategy? No. Why? No ****ing Lamborghini jet fighters, and nobody announced they have plans to make any.

That has to be the single most idiotic analogy I've seen from you and that's saying something. BMW participate in Motorsports and have nearly two decades of being apart of F1 at different times. To say you don't need proof is asinine either way because it is highly plausible that BMW see returning to F1 beneficial especially with claims that the engines are already helping real world.

I don't like reporting posts every chance I get. It's amazing how trigger happy you guys are with these things.

Here's the misquote



When? By calling it dead? Dead steering is an expression that it doesn't provide feedback Mr. Expert.


Nope, I said it's NOT a glitch. Here:


-------------

Well if I broke AUP then you should report me...it's how the forum keeps out the rift raft. I've never heard the expression dead steering hence why I thought what I did, you know there are people here of different cultures and expressions very from place to place.

I know you said it's not a glitch, and then you went on to say it needs a software patch which usually means there is an error or glitch in the system you don't send a patch just because. So it's a bit ironic now.

Also when did I say I was an expert, you really get emotional with this stuff it's almost comical.

There's quite a few of you that always to either mis-read what I post or scream for proof, yes. PM is one of them.

Ever think that maybe it's you? Since I tend to see you doing what you're doing now and people having to set you straight.

Yes you have to, I made it pretty damn clear I took inflation under consideration. You chose to nitpick what I said by claiming I didn't.

Wasn't intending to, this isn't the economics thread.

The BMW discussion is way off topic here, as I said in my first response to you. I'm trying to minimize the discussion. Besides, it isn't something hard to quantify. If you look at most of their models side by side, you'll find that BMW > Audi = Merc. In the past BMW was noticeably cheaper. Either take that or don't. If you expect me to drive to the local dealers and ask them for pricing history, you're insane.

Yeah I've been called worse. :sly:a

Ok, then it must've been another incident where you sounded confident. My bad. I was thrown off by niky's post in the Bahrain GP saying the Schumi/Barrichello incident happened at the wall of champions.

I doubt it was because that is the only place I talked about wing failures, I checked a couple times just to make sure.

There are certain topics and places where you can have "intellectual conversation". A grand prix, on an internet forum is not one of them. If it's your thing spending countless hours gathering "proof" and archiving it just so you can share an opinion(which does not require proof), go ahead. Whatever makes you happy. Really. Just don't expect me to do that. It's one of the reasons I don't post as much here unless I'm very tempted to. Such as when someone said "Lewis is in another league" in the Chinese GP thread. Things like that make me cringe.

Actually proof is archived to prove things not for an opinion unless that opinion tries to act as a fact or theory...an opinion would be me saying "I think Rosberg might have a chance to win the championship". If you said something similar about BMW this never would have started at least not from my end. If you keep planning on coming to these threads spouting off nonsense as if fact then yes I expect you too and many others if that is your childish issue not to follow rules then why join a forum.

They make you cringe because you have a biased hate for the guy, and can't accept reality but no need to change the subject as you tend to do.

Did it really make that much of a difference to you? Honestly if every time I went out with a friend and said something, then got asked to provide proof, I'd have gotten a stroke a long time ago.

Well one can only hope :sly:

Earlier in the same post you said he doesn't need to provide proof. Now you're saying I was right to ask. Ok.

As for the the strategy bit, covered. Won't respond to it again. Sorry.


I quoted your post too :) We happy?

I said he didn't need proof because I provided you the source he most likely got it from that was in recent F1 news. And even if it wasn't the exact source it is a source to support his claim, which is more than you've given on the matter.
 
Once again I gave you the person who said it GIANCARLO MINARDI, so now it is clear that you most likely only skimmed my post if you're still asking I only said it 3 or 4 different times. And yes, if you said that rumor or not I'd ask where you got it from. I gave you the source of where his rumor was from.
The other user didn't bring up Minardis user initially. Even after you brought it up, it changes nothing. BMW denied, saying their strategy hasn't changed. A bit of discrete mathematics may help you understand that.

That has to be the single most idiotic analogy I've seen from you and that's saying something. BMW participate in Motorsports and have nearly two decades of being apart of F1 at different times. To say you don't need proof is asinine either way because it is highly plausible that BMW see returning to F1 beneficial especially with claims that the engines are already helping real world.
What's your IQ? Seriously.

Also, highly plausible? Toyota was part of F1 recently too. Does that justify saying they're coming back? What kind of logic is that? This is seriously the last time I'll say this. Look up statement logic and see if BMW is coming back, given their last statement.

Well if I broke AUP then you should report me...it's how the forum keeps out the rift raft. I've never heard the expression dead steering hence why I thought what I did, you know there are people here of different cultures and expressions very from place to place.
I've heard Americans use it in the past as well and it's not like I invented the English language. It's not even supposed to be my native language.

Oh and I won't report you for breaking the AUP just because I feel like it. The mods handle these things. More on this in a bit.

I know you said it's not a glitch, and then you went on to say it needs a software patch which usually means there is an error or glitch in the system you don't send a patch just because. So it's a bit ironic now.
I'll just give this a rest and say it was a bad choice of words. Okay? Is "update" better?

Also when did I say I was an expert, you really get emotional with this stuff it's almost comical.
You said you archive all kinds of car magazines.

lol at emotional.

Ever think that maybe it's you? Since I tend to see you doing what you're doing now and people having to set you straight.
No no, I've been on internet forums long before GTP existed. I noticed a trend in people that don't like my behavior, and it's consistent now so I know it's not me.

Wasn't intending to, this isn't the economics thread.
:/ ok
I doubt it was because that is the only place I talked about wing failures, I checked a couple times just to make sure.
It wasn't about wing failures it was something else. I don't have the capacity to save details of these things, just the conclusions I got.

Actually proof is archived to prove things not for an opinion unless that opinion tries to act as a fact or theory...an opinion would be me saying "I think Rosberg might have a chance to win the championship". If you said something similar about BMW this never would have started at least not from my end. If you keep planning on coming to these threads spouting off nonsense as if fact then yes I expect you too and many others if that is your childish issue not to follow rules then why join a forum.
First of all, people join forums to discuss opinions not facts. React to facts/news, maybe. Not to copy paste articles every time you have something to say.

The BMW thing. Read above.

They make you cringe because you have a biased hate for the guy, and can't accept reality but no need to change the subject as you tend to do.
No. I don't like blind fanboyism especially when it's not deserved. Guys like Hamilton were already being shoved down my throat before he started his fist grand prix.

Well one can only hope :sly:
If there's anything that's blatantly against the AUP it's that. Pretty sure wishing harm upon another member is a no no. It's okay though, I forgive you :)


I said he didn't need proof because I provided you the source he most likely got it from that was in recent F1 news. And even if it wasn't the exact source it is a source to support his claim, which is more than you've given on the matter.
He DID need proof at the time I asked for it. Also I would've given a "source" to BMW denying it but PM already did that in his first response to me. Be it missing a few things IIRC.
 
The other user didn't bring up Minardis user initially. Even after you brought it up, it changes nothing. BMW denied, saying their strategy hasn't changed. A bit of discrete mathematics may help you understand that.

Until you provide something that says that then you're just shooting from the hip and hoping it sticks.


What's your IQ? Seriously.

Higher than yours perhaps if you cant solve simple syntax. Nice try with misdirection...

Also, highly plausible? Toyota was part of F1 recently too. Does that justify saying they're coming back? What kind of logic is that? This is seriously the last time I'll say this. Look up statement logic and see if BMW is coming back, given their last statement.

If there was someone that is with deep contacts saying that Toyota is coming back then sure, though history tends to show that a group either goes Prototype racing or F1. I'd question it but probably know more than me since I'm not immersed in F1.

I've heard Americans use it in the past as well and it's not like I invented the English language. It's not even supposed to be my native language.

Oh and I won't report you for breaking the AUP just because I feel like it. The mods handle these things. More on this in a bit.

That's great if you've heard Americans say that, hardly means anything since there are many different cultures and phrases in the U.S., something common in the South or East coast isn't in the southwest or west coast.

Mods are psychic...they're not going to know if infractions occur if you aren't proactive, they aren't superheroes that swoop down to take care of what you don't want to.

I'll just give this a rest and say it was a bad choice of words. Okay? Is "update" better?

Sure

You said you archive all kinds of car magazines.

If not throwing away years of magazines is archiving I guess I do...


No no, I've been on internet forums long before GTP existed. I noticed a trend in people that don't like my behavior, and it's consistent now so I know it's not me.

You tried to act as if I was stupid and then you go on and say ironic stuff like this... If there is a trend in people not liking your behavior to the point it is on a consistent basis then it most likely is you that has an issue.

It wasn't about wing failures it was something else. I don't have the capacity to save details of these things, just the conclusions I got.

Another broad sweeping generalization from you... I provided the post in question, and it showed you were wrong now you want to go backwards to save face instead of saying sorry for being wrong. Just because I've argued with you before doesn't give you credence to some claim now that you have no backing for.


First of all, people join forums to discuss opinions not facts. React to facts/news, maybe. Not to copy paste articles every time you have something to say.

Really because in all my 11 to 12 years experience on various forums and the internet at large people tend to come to forums due to get information on a mutual like they have that said forum provides.


No. I don't like blind fanboyism especially when it's not deserved. Guys like Hamilton were already being shoved down my throat before he started his fist grand prix.

He was probably talked about because he was fast and did well in a car, don't see why you hate a guy for that. And it's not blind he did a great job in bad conditions at a track that recently favors his team mate more and came out ahead making it look easy. Vettel got the same treatment last year when he would do that and it was well deserved.


If there's anything that's blatantly against the AUP it's that. Pretty sure wishing harm upon another member is a no no. It's okay though, I forgive you :)

How did I wish harm, all I see is me poking a joke at your figurative language.

He DID need proof at the time I asked for it. Also I would've given a "source" to BMW denying it but PM already did that in his first response to me. Be it missing a few things IIRC.

I already agreed he needed proof and thus I did something nice for him that I probably wont do again and that was provide the source to you. I couldn't find any claims to what you made, the only thing I found was a claim from BMW early last year around February saying they didn't have plans. However, Minardi's claims happened a week and a half ago, and I haven't seen anything new from BMW since saying they wont join. How it is somehow undeniable that they wont join to you is why you were questioned because you are making a factual claim, not an opinion.
 
(Comes in looking for info about Haas F1, sees argument, goes back to other forum)

Really though, not sure how Haas plans to pull this off. I doubt he'll sacrifice potential potential points just to say he has an American driver.
 
(Comes in looking for info about Haas F1, sees argument, goes back to other forum)

Really though, not sure how Haas plans to pull this off. I doubt he'll sacrifice potential potential points just to say he has an American driver.

I imagine it's one of those times when all other things being equal, he'd take the American over any other nationality. And rightly so.

But it's racing, and all other things are never equal. He'll take the best drivers he can get/afford, and then figure out some way to spin it so that they're attractive to an American audience.
 
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