Gene Haas' new American F1 team

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Roo, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. SVT Cobra GT

    SVT Cobra GT

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    That's all very true, he's quoted as knowing within 4 weeks or so whether they'll start in 2015. So I guess the only thing we can do is play the waiting game. Surely he's got to be looking at this seasons' engines to decide which to go for next year. As it's been said before, McLaren's Mercedes contract would be the best bet. Unless Honda create a better engine than Mercedes.
     
  2. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    The FIA is allowing some form of development on the engines. Even with the development freeze, Renault have said they know where the problems are and how to go about fixing them. Obviously they can do something about it. I think the FIA will have a temporary freeze for the year to prevent manufacturers from constantly developing the engines. At the end of the year, the manufacturers will probably be able to submit proposals for intended development, which the FIA can approve or reject as they see fit.

    Because the teams knew how complex the engines are, and there was always a risk that they would get caught in the freeze with a bad engine and waste seven years.
     
  3. Dragonwhisky

    Dragonwhisky Premium

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    No data to back this up but, I suspect, if Haas does get Ferarri power, it'll be a deal done so Ferarri can have another data set to help them figure out why their PU is so peeyew. If I was Haas, and wanted to be competitive the first year, I'd be hunting contracts with Mercedes for their PUs. Alas, I am not Haas. They (meaning Merc) appear to have it dialed in this year. It's always possible that next year could be different. It's not like the FIA is averse to rule changes that attempt to level the field out some more.

    It is my hope, that Haas get's his poop in a pile, comes in next year with a top 5 car contender and a top 3 team contender. We all know about hopes however.
     
  4. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Do you honestly believe that Haas can somehow come in with no prior experience and beat more than half the grid in one fell swoop?
     
  5. Dragonwhisky

    Dragonwhisky Premium

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    I didn't say I believed he could. I'm pretty sure I said hope. Do you really believe hope = belief?
     
  6. SVT Cobra GT

    SVT Cobra GT

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    To be fair. It is kind of on the same wavelength.
     
  7. Dragonwhisky

    Dragonwhisky Premium

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    Not hardly. Hope is a wish of expectation. Belief is expecting that wish to come true.
     
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  8. joetruckv8

    joetruckv8

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    Talking about engines Honda & BMW plus Ford/Cosworth are talking about their returning motor programs. Depending on what happens this year I wouldn't just buy a motor from anyone other then Mercedes right now!

    If Haas wants to atleast fsll inyi a 10th place position anything short of a Mercedes motor wont alliw that to happen. It takes 5yrs just to get a Championship Point, with these new reg's its not about chassis and downforce, anymore its about your motor package 1st now!
     
  9. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    And in this case, both believing and hoping that Haas can make the top five in their debut season is a fool's errand.
     
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  10. ukfan758

    ukfan758

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    Though I am really glad that Haas will be in F1 soon, I am really concerned about many things. First of all, he's looking at Dallara being the chassis builder, you cannot have a company build a chassis for you if you want to be successful. Haas does not understand that F1 is not a spec racing series. The car chassis ARE NOT THE SAME and making some generic chassis will make you the worst in the field (remember HRT?). Secondly, he is looking at Ferrari Engines. Ferrari is currently struggling being competitive. Why not Mercedes, they are dominating the field and have had the best reliability engine wise. Thirdly, he is sponsoring HIS OWN CAR. To succeed in F1, you need sponsors to help pay for development of cars, pay the teams, etc. If you are having no income from anyone besides the team owner (unless it's Bill Gates), you're going to go under FAST. I have a feeling that the car is going to look very similar to HRTs: but with HRD all over it.
    [​IMG]
    I would say good sponsors would be Chevron, ExonMobil, Microsoft, Comcast, PNC, Chase,etc.
    Finally, he says he wants to do it cheaply. You must spend lots of money to do well in F1. Formula One, unfortunately, has always been about who has the most money. For Haas to have a high finishing team, he will have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars. Only in NASCAR and other spec series can you do it cheaply because money doesn't matter there, Kurt Busch was in the lowest budget team in NASCAR and won several races. If you do the cheap way in F1, you're guaranteed to be like Marussia, Caterham, or Lotus. I really hope Haas doesn't screw this up. If he is successful, F1 could possibly become one of the most popular forms of motorsport in the US. It is already 3rd, I think it could become 2nd with Haas and maybe even 1st if NASCAR keeps going down hill.
     
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  11. Grand Prix

    Grand Prix Premium

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    Hilarious headline. :lol:

    They might do better than the bottom teams because of their experience, but probably not quite enough to match the upper midfield teams. It will be a few years at the earliest before they will be will be in any position to win GPs.

    I doubt very much they are going to achieve Locomobile or even Eagle levels of success right off the bat. Even they had to wait for a few years before they got their first wins. Shadow had a GP win, although as a British team, technically speaking, and Penske also had a win. Those two had to wait a few years for their wins as well.

    History shows that it has always been a bit of a struggle for American teams and cars to succeed in Grand Prix racing. Would love to be proven wrong though. :lol:
     
  12. joetruckv8

    joetruckv8

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    I dont watch a lot of Nascar, but I Didn't know they were going down hill,. Heck they just built a new generation car, lol!
     
  13. ukfan758

    ukfan758

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    Attendance rates and viewership rates have been going down.
    [​IMG]
    (2013 Food City 500, first year of gen 6 car)


    [​IMG]
    (2007 Food City 500, 1st year of Gen 5 car)
     
  14. joetruckv8

    joetruckv8

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    Wow, this is going to suck for the Nascar fans, but hopefully for me since Nascar bought Tudor USCR that, that's where all the hype is going too. Is America finally ready 4 straight up GT racing?!,.
     
  15. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Don't make the mistake of assuming that because HRT had a bad car, Haas will, too. When HRT employed Dallara, it was a low-budget arrangement, and development of the chassis stalled when HRT did not pay on time. When Colin Kolles took over, he ended the partnership early.

    We are yet to see what the FIA will do about engine development. Given the expense and the complexity of the engines, they will likely allow some degree of change. Besides, last year, Mercedes had the best-performing engine, but a Renault-powered car dominated.

    Haas has said that he is considering both Ferrari and Mercedes right now, but more importantly, he can want a Mercedes engine until he is blue in the face - but do Mercedes want Haas? He has already been forced to deny reports Mercedes have already said no.

    He will no doubt find more sponsors. For now, he is putting his own money in to get the project off the ground. As USF1 demonstrated, it is very difficult to get sponsors without a car.

    Do those companies want to be involved? And if so, to what extent?

    The sport is in a financial crisis. It needs to cut costs, and soon.
     
  16. Ganon83

    Ganon83

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    Racing has always been about spending a lot of money to make a little of it. If the sanctioning body tries to make some ruling, it's either going to negatively effect the racing, change nothing, or teams will get around it. Just look at a few years ago when the NASCAR Truck series banned tires and fuel being changed on the same pit stop to save on money. It resulted in just as many pit crews but now they had to do two stops every caution- one for fuel, one for tires. It was a mess.
     
  17. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    And if teams continue to spend $400 million each year, the sport will go bust.
     
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  18. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    Who has managed to spent £400 million in a season when testing was banned?

    Testing is back this season but it is very limited in comparison to what teams used to do.
     
  19. Wilbur

    Wilbur

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    I'm just kind of curious about the whole Nascar debate and Kurt Busch....which team was he low budget on and won races? He has only been on one that did things on any budget. Roush/Penske both are big players and Furniture Row was pretty much a RCR car who had shop else where with him in it.

    He is already building the shop and I don't think he is taking this lightly by any means, he just is trying to get the ball rolling by funding it (which shows me he is willing to invest big bucks) and I think that shows alot to companies who might want to take a risk. There were some companies interested in his team, Subway was one of them...
     
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  20. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    JPM think Haas is mad.
    The teams aren't willing to talk about it, but Red Bull are believed to have spent close to that much.
     
  21. BHRxRacer

    BHRxRacer (Banned)

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    Where did you hear that from? I could swear BMW denied it.
     
  22. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    All the BMW spokesperson said was that they would "continue their current motorsports strategy". Which could mean anything.

    But I doubt they would team up with Haas. If they intend to enter, then I would expect them to buy Lotus.
     
  23. SVT Cobra GT

    SVT Cobra GT

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    As much as I love Lotus, if they did fall into administration that would be great!
     
  24. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Showing pictures really doesn't prove anything especially since the year you've just quoted as being full of people was when NASCAR took a sharp decline as mentioned in the "what would I change about nascar thread". Also that past couple of races this year have been sold out (e.g. Darlington this past weekend)
     
  25. BHRxRacer

    BHRxRacer (Banned)

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    Their current motorsports strategy doesn't involve F1. They implied it's not impossible, but they denied. BMW has been going to **** for years now, I doubt they'll make what I think is the right call and go back to F1.
     
  26. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Are you a senior executive at BMW?

    If not, then I am very curious as to how you know details of their strategy. But then, I have noticed that you have a bad habit of making broad, sweeping generalisations without evidence.
     
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  27. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    There is some circumstantial evidence that Genii are looking to offload the team. Their general under-performance means that someone like BMW could pick them up relatively cheaply, and the Enstone facility is fairly decent. The biggest problem is that they have lost all of their key technical and managerial personnel, so any incoming owners would have to work hard to recruit.

    Of course, all of this assumes that BMW have an engine in development. Going by Honda's approach, they need at least two years to bring the project to fruition, so BMW would have somehow managed to keep everything a secret for over a year now, which would be a remarkable achievement. That said, an engine unit is easy enough to build, and they have experience with ERS-K. So they only thing they would really need to develop is the Heat Motor Generator Unit, and it is possible that they could source that.

    There is one alternative that might be viable: the acquisition of PURE. The project stalled when they ran out of funding, so they could be picked up cheaply - and an alliance with a car manufacturer would really work for them. PURE pretty much evaporated into thin air, which is very unusual for a business like that. If they collapsed, their assets would have been sold off, because they would be of interest to any car manufacturers interested in energy recovery. Craig Pollock said that the terms of their deal meant that the funding for the project had to come from somewhere in Europe.
     
  28. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    How have BMW been going to crap for years now, that sounds very subjective yet acts as if it is some sort of fact, so how exactly are they?

    Insiders claimed at the end of last year that Ferrari spends 250 million euros a year on the F1 campaign. Of course Ferrari denied this because why would they agree when they were blown out of the water by a Drink Company and beat by a group that came to (re)join F1 in 2010. This year they'd even play it down more so because they're loosing worse than last year.

    Though 250 million Euros a year is closer to 350 million USD, PM may be talking about the drink company that spends as much if not more. Even without testing teams use wind tunnels, CFD and other tools as if they're candy to make winning cars.
     
  29. doblocruiser

    doblocruiser

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  30. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    I am.

    Seriously, anyone who is spending more than $200 million a year is spending too much. Ideally, that figure could come down to less than $100 million - or about as much as they win in prize money from FOM.