Gordini at Gr.x is total BS.

[Pururut]

I know its not really a street car but when Vulcan and Sfr racing concept at n class it doesnt make any sense.

Gordini should be an N class car not Gr.x.

 

[Epic B]

And we have a classic Mini and a 356 that I'm pretty sure are somewhat competition spec.

 

[Pururut]

And we have a classic Mini and a 356 that I'm pretty sure are somewhat competition spec.

Yep. Pd logic as finest.

 

[kembro]

Yep I can't understand it either. It should be in the same class as the 356. It is an amazing little car for its hp, along the lines of Lotus tradition.

Gordini or The Sorcerer, was a master tuner at the time, being an ex F1 driver and engineer. He teamed up with Simca to make an F1 car, before working with Renault and forming his own tuning division, now a part of Renault Sport.

Driving it for me has a bit of a feel of an old F1 car with the well balanced rear engine and great handing.

 

[MIE1992]

I wonder if it's something to do with street legality?

I've also had a hypothesis for some time that the S-FR Racing Concept and Vulcan would be put into Gr.X if they were added to the game today. But I think the two were in the N-Series at launch because PD wasn't 100% sure where to place them, and I think this is also why the Vulcan is "dumbed-down," in a sense. And this would be why the Zonda R and P1 GTR were put in Gr.X when they were added. I'm unsure if PD can retroactively change the class of a car, either. But yeah, I think the Vulcan and S-FR Racing Concept would be put into Gr.X if the category system in GTS returns in the next game.

As for the R8 Gordini, I'm not entirely sure if it was street legal, whereas I think the Porsche 356 and the Mini Cooper S may be in the N-series due to their street-legal status.

 

[Epic B]

I wonder if it's something to do with street legality?

I've also had a hypothesis for some time that the S-FR Racing Concept and Vulcan would be put into Gr.X if they were added to the game today. But I think the two were in the N-Series at launch because PD wasn't 100% sure where to place them, and I think this is also why the Vulcan is "dumbed-down," in a sense. And this would be why the Zonda R and P1 GTR were put in Gr.X when they were added. I'm unsure if PD can retroactively change the class of a car, either. But yeah, I think the Vulcan and S-FR Racing Concept would be put into Gr.X if the category system in GTS returns in the next game.

As for the R8 Gordini, I'm not entirely sure if it was street legal, whereas I think the Porsche 356 and the Mini Cooper S may be in the N-series due to their street-legal status.

I think the S-FR would fit more realistically as a Group 4.

 

[Scaff]

I wonder if it's something to do with street legality?

I've also had a hypothesis for some time that the S-FR Racing Concept and Vulcan would be put into Gr.X if they were added to the game today. But I think the two were in the N-Series at launch because PD wasn't 100% sure where to place them, and I think this is also why the Vulcan is "dumbed-down," in a sense. And this would be why the Zonda R and P1 GTR were put in Gr.X when they were added. I'm unsure if PD can retroactively change the class of a car, either. But yeah, I think the Vulcan and S-FR Racing Concept would be put into Gr.X if the category system in GTS returns in the next game.

As for the R8 Gordini, I'm not entirely sure if it was street legal, whereas I think the Porsche 356 and the Mini Cooper S may be in the N-series due to their street-legal status.

It was road legal, built as a rally car.

 

[Volksauto]

It was classified as a race car in GT6 so it makes total sense why it's in Gr.X but it really shouldn't belong there.

 

[Beezer215]

The lack of common sense portrayed in the decision making for this title is beyond mind numbing.
Who is approving these decisions? Is this all Kaz himself or is it just a cluster eff?

 

[ShiftingGears]

BuT kAz Is A pErFeCtIoNiSt

 

[Sander 001]

It would’ve taken work for PD to test and determine out all the BoP values

 

[GT_Alex74]

The R8 Gordini is a perfectly street legal car. It's the very same sort of car as the 356 we have in game. The fact it was classified as a race car in GT6 already amde no sense. You see them driving on public roads with license plates all the time (well, not anymore, they've became quite a rare sight nowadays since they went really high up on value but I used to spot them regularly as a kid).

Yes, they were rally / race ready (there was even a monotype cup with these, which saw most of the best french drivers of the old times competing as rookies), but they're just road cars with a tuned engine and a piece of roll cage, like a modern day GT3 RS.

 

[MIE1992]

My other hypothesis was that even if it was street-legal, perhaps there was some other factor that put it into Gr.X, likely to do with balancing issues. Maybe there’s something about the R8 Gordini that makes it hard enough to balance with other N100 cars insofar that it was placed into Gr.X.

 

[Volksauto]

Maybe there’s something about the R8 Gordini that makes it hard enough to balance with other N100 cars insofar that it was placed into Gr.X.

Maybe. But the Fiat 500F has 16 horsepower and that somehow makes it N100 even though it's literally impossible to win any races with it.

 

[GT_Alex74]

My other hypothesis was that even if it was street-legal, perhaps there was some other factor that put it into Gr.X, likely to do with balancing issues. Maybe there’s something about the R8 Gordini that makes it hard enough to balance with other N100 cars insofar that it was placed into Gr.X.

1) N classes are unbalanced by design
2) The R8 Gordini could be a close match to the 356 without any BoP (still has to be thoroughly tested). With BoP I can even see the old Mini thrown into the mix.

 

[snowgt]

Having the Gordini in GrX is a really bad idea. That group is for either road cars that have some quality that prevents them from being properly BoP’d, like EV’s or hybrids with a high electric capacity, or for race cars that don’t fit into one of the existing classes. The Gordini can definitely be BoP’d in N-classes, and it’s road legal, so that’s where it should be.

Actually, the same is true for a car like the 250GTO. Just saying.

 

[The Cake]

The lack of common sense portrayed in the decision making for this title is beyond mind numbing.
Who is approving these decisions? Is this all Kaz himself or is it just a cluster eff?

its the ai

 

[OJT6627]

Gordini at Gr.x is total BS.

Fixed

No, seriously. I understand why Chapparal 2X or Tomahawk X are in Gr.X. Okay, fair enough

But some cars being in Gr.X is just taking away the fun. Nissan VGT is essentially a boosted GT-R with KERS, yet i can't race it in anything else than One Make races (unless one of the 5 GT League events or Open Lobby)

There are many cars in the class that deserve a better treatment IMO

 

[eran0004]

Having the Gordini in GrX is a really bad idea. That group is for either road cars that have some quality that prevents them from being properly BoP’d, like EV’s or hybrids with a high electric capacity, or for race cars that don’t fit into one of the existing classes. The Gordini can definitely be BoP’d in N-classes, and it’s road legal, so that’s where it should be.

Actually, the same is true for a car like the 250GTO. Just saying.

The R8 is a rally car and the 250GTO is a race car. They don’t belong to the N class. I’m sure they could be BoP’d to fit reasonably well though.

 

[GT_Alex74]

The R8 is a rally car

No it's not. It's a road legal car that has been entered in rally and circuit racing. there was a R8 Gordini Cup in France, first in rally, then on circuit, which is famous for being the first racing experience of many notorious french drivers. It was popular litterally because you could literally enter with your daily driver, and tuning was actually prohibited :

 

[BlazeTheCat05]

I honestly wonder if we could do something about this. One of us should try reaching out to Kaz, because this has to be the most wasted potential of a car in the game. The R8 Gordini would have been absolutely phenomenal in N100.

 

[eran0004]

No it's not. It's a road legal car that has been entered in rally and circuit racing. there was a R8 Gordini Cup in France, first in rally, then on circuit, which is famous for being the first racing experience of many notorious french drivers. It was popular litterally because you could literally enter with your daily driver, and tuning was actually prohibited :

No, it’s definitely a rally car. And rally cars are generally road legal, even group B monsters.

 

[GT_Alex74]

No, it’s definitely a rally car. And rally cars are generally road legal, even group B monsters.

No, Group B cars that ran in actual rally events are not road legal, which is why they built road legal versions of them which were not used in races. Renault has sold exactly 11,607 R8 Gordini as road cars. There were not 11,607 R8 Gordini racing. You could see them all the time on public roads when they weren't worth 40k. 100% road car - unless you consider a Mégane or Clio RS as a rally car that should be put in Gr.X as well.

Also the video I posted literally has Amédée Gordini saying the cars being raced are road cars.

 

[Beezer215]

its the ai

Asinine Intelligence for sure.

No, it’s definitely a rally car. And rally cars are generally road legal, even group B monsters.

Are you seriously doing this? It's a road car that was entered into rally. Are you trying to defend putting a car in Gr. X? I've heard of playing devil's advocate but come on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_8_and_10

 

[MidFieldMaven]

1) N classes are unbalanced by design
2) The R8 Gordini could be a close match to the 356 without any BoP (still has to be thoroughly tested). With BoP I can even see the old Mini thrown into the mix.

I'll test the R8 later or tomorrow at Tsukuba and we'll see how it does.

 

[daan]

No, Group B cars that ran in actual rally events are not road legal,

Yes, they are. Rally cars are driven on public roads between stages and service parks. They have to be registered and road legal.

Note how all of these cars have number plates.

And Marcus Gronholm was stopped from continuing in Rally GB one year as the police wouldn't allow his 3 wheeled car to be driven on the public roads.

Another classic Rally GB moment came in 2003, when double world champion Marcus Gronholm was pulled over by the Welsh police, who wouldn’t let him continue driving on public roads due to the fact his Peugeot had a damaged wheel.

The incident would go down in history as the police officer repeatedly forbids Gronholm from continuing, despite the Finn’s protestation that he does, in fact, know what he’s doing.

Police would spell trouble for other drivers that year too, as part of a country-wide crackdown on speeding. Between the stages, rally drivers are required to drive on public roads to reach specific points by certain times or else they face points penalties.

The cops were having none of it. A total of 17 drivers were fined by Welsh police in 2003, with Colin McRae and Richard Burns among them. According to reports from the time, a total of four of those drivers were issued with driving bans.

 

[snowgt]

The R8 is a rally car and the 250GTO is a race car. They don’t belong to the N class. I’m sure they could be BoP’d to fit reasonably well though.

What belongs or doesn't belong to the N-class is simply a matter of (arbitrary) definition. In my opinion one goal should be to give every car the best chance of being used competitively against opposition of similar speed. Of course, the N-class seems to be the road car class (I'll not go into PD's decision to put the S-FR Racing Concept in there), but you could make the argument that both the Gordini and the 250GTO were perfectly street legal and if you so wanted in the 60s, you could drive them on their own set of wheels to a race and home again. They also didn't use slicks in those days (even in races), which is reflected in the default tyres in the game (SM for the Gordini, SS for the 250GTO).

For me, that's a strong case for assigning them to N-class and not to Gr.X. It's not a matter of being right ("But, but...they were race cars!!!"), but of what's best for the game.

 

[StirlingMoose]

All rally (not rallycross) cars have to be road legal because they have to be driven on road between special stages. That's what rallying is.
Not saying that the Gordini shouldn't be N class though. It's just mad PD logic. I tried it in the French series in the campaign and it performs well stock at well below the N100 power limit. But because it's clasified as GR.X you don't get the car handicap bonus.

Edit - Beaten to it by Daan.

 

[snowgt]

No, Group B cars that ran in actual rally events are not road legal, which is why they built road legal versions of them which were not used in races. Renault has sold exactly 11,607 R8 Gordini as road cars. There were not 11,607 R8 Gordini racing. You could see them all the time on public roads when they weren't worth 40k. 100% road car - unless you consider a Mégane or Clio RS as a rally car that should be put in Gr.X as well.

Also the video I posted literally has Amédée Gordini saying the cars being raced are road cars.

That all rally cars have to be road legal has already been mentioned. Just wanted to add that the reason they built road versions was in the regulations, i.e. that you had to build a certain number of cars for homologation, and it made no sense to build e.g. 250 actual rally cars. Therefore they built 250 slightly nerfed versions instead.

Rest about the Gordini is certainly true.

 

[eran0004]

No, Group B cars that ran in actual rally events are not road legal, which is why they built road legal versions of them which were not used in races. Renault has sold exactly 11,607 R8 Gordini as road cars. There were not 11,607 R8 Gordini racing. You could see them all the time on public roads when they weren't worth 40k. 100% road car - unless you consider a Mégane or Clio RS as a rally car that should be put in Gr.X as well.

Also the video I posted literally has Amédée Gordini saying the cars being raced are road cars.

No, group B homologation is not because there needed to be a road legal version of the car, it’s because a certain number of cars needed to be produced.

The rally cars had to be road legal because they drove on public roads between the special stages. That’s why you see license plates on these cars.