Gordini at Gr.x is total BS.
- Thread starter Pururut
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- VS & 74 (France)
- GT-Alex74
@eran0004 You're wrong on so many levels. Rally cars have special authorizations and special plate numbers, and are only allowed to drive on specific roads during a specific time. A 205 T16 Evo is NOT allowed to drive freely on public roads during the whole year. A 200 series 205 T16 is allowed to to that, just like a R8 Gordini can.
Actually, this is even becoming an issue in Switzerland because some regions don't want to deliver rally plates anymore because they were being abused.
Actually, this is even becoming an issue in Switzerland because some regions don't want to deliver rally plates anymore because they were being abused.
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- Rave2Grave
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- GTP_daan
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- VS & 74 (France)
- GT-Alex74
That's in UK, a country where you can put an engine on a couch and register it. Try that anywhere else in the world. Better know some people and put a lot of money in the right hands to pass it as a one off special homologation. The fact is I actually know someone who owns a 205 T16 Evo 2. It is NOT road legal and will never be.
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- StirlingMoose
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That 205 T16 is on the french side. Ask yourself why you can't put headlights and signals on a F1 car and put plates on it. You'll get your answers.
For the old Mini, I honestly don't know if the rally spec versions were built road cars or not. If built road cars, then surely no problem. Gr.Bs will be definitely out forever in Switzerland though, they HATE agressive aerodynamic features such as splitters and wings. Well, actually you can modify your car and have them registered on the car's title, but you have to get your parts tested and approved individually (unless someone else went through that hassle and did everything to get that specific part officially approved, then you can just order a certificate).
Bodywork parts are especially painful to get approved, because they have to be tested to destruction - which means you have to buy several identical ones. It's still not a guarantee though as they're super edgy about pedestrians safety. Canards and sharp splitters are an automatic no go. They even care about what your rear wing would do to a pedestrian if that guy were to be hit and go over your roof. Fun fact : because of this, the Escort Cosworth was sold without its famous wing in Switzerland. Some decided to fit one afterwards but have to remove it before going through inspection. There are also two aftermarket add-ons which makes that wing road legal in Switzerland, both consists of filling the "hole" either with a solid piece or a grille (that's 100% ugly and thus extremely rare).
For the old Mini, I honestly don't know if the rally spec versions were built road cars or not. If built road cars, then surely no problem. Gr.Bs will be definitely out forever in Switzerland though, they HATE agressive aerodynamic features such as splitters and wings. Well, actually you can modify your car and have them registered on the car's title, but you have to get your parts tested and approved individually (unless someone else went through that hassle and did everything to get that specific part officially approved, then you can just order a certificate).
Bodywork parts are especially painful to get approved, because they have to be tested to destruction - which means you have to buy several identical ones. It's still not a guarantee though as they're super edgy about pedestrians safety. Canards and sharp splitters are an automatic no go. They even care about what your rear wing would do to a pedestrian if that guy were to be hit and go over your roof. Fun fact : because of this, the Escort Cosworth was sold without its famous wing in Switzerland. Some decided to fit one afterwards but have to remove it before going through inspection. There are also two aftermarket add-ons which makes that wing road legal in Switzerland, both consists of filling the "hole" either with a solid piece or a grille (that's 100% ugly and thus extremely rare).
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I'm surprised.. Switzerland's always been such a proponent of motorsport.
Wrong. Nearly nonexistent even. They outright ban motorsports since the crash that happens 69 years ago.
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I'd give up Daan. Everyone knows you're right and GT_Alex74 knows everyone is wrong! (I once did the LeMans 24hr weekend as a passenger in an ex_works 6R4. Noise and Fuel were big issues, legality wasn't.)
Anyway, the only issue I have with the Renault R8 is the need for a seperate dealership. Renault and Renault Sport share the same showrooms in real life and even the same brochures. I fail to see why PD feel a need to separate them.
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- Autavia
Well...
Legality, in this case, is a matter of locality.
Since motorsport parts, such as the M-Sport rally kit for Fiestas, are only very rarely type approved for road use, legality is a matter of national legislation. Even within the EU there are differencies regarding after market modification of motor vehicles.
It varies from very liberal views on, to full prohibition of, any form of tuning that is not type approved by either the manufacturer of the vehicle or an authorized institution.
The UK, for instance, have a more liberal legislation than Germany.
Well apologize if the Swiss Motorsport Ban isnt anyone's common knowledge enough to be an unmarked sarcasm...
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Scaff
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It does indeed, but if a car is legally registered for the road in one European country, then its legal to drive in any European country.
One very good example of this seeming contradiction was the 'ring setting Radical SR8, which was driven to the 'ring back in 2005 prior to setting the production car record despite the fact the car at the time could not be legally registered for the road in Germany.
Its why a large number of rally cars carry UK or French registration, as it then allows them to be quite legally driven in Europe even if they would not be able to be legally registered in a specific country.
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- GTP_daan
Exactly.
Which is why I'm responding to someone who says things like this...
...while basing most his points on a country that doesn't exactly have a liberal attitude to motorsports.
And as @Scaff says above, a car registered here in the UK, which would include Group B/WRC etc can legally be driven on roads across Europe (for the time being, anyway...)
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- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Seeing as there is a "Renault Classic" plate on the car, I'm thinking maybe that Renault specifically licensed the car to PD as separate from "Renault Sport" (which would kinda be period correct as Renault Sport was only a Motorsport branch at the time that car existed as opposed to the current performance division that sells modified versions of the road cars like it is now). I'm probably wrong on that but at the same time, I'm not sure its up to PD as to what brand a certain Model falls under as that would be up to the Manufacterers they are getting the car from.
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- GT-Alex74
Well you are basing yourself on a specific unique case in a country where laws are notoriously very lenient regarding what you can drive. Thing is full on rally cars are by default not road legal, about everywhere in the world. Yes you could drive that one through EU on UK plates. Move permanently anywhere else in EU though, and now you have to register it in your new country, which is not gonna happen, unless Ford (not M-Sport) decides to provide a CoC. Spoiler : they can't. And before someone goes this route : no, opening a company just so you can drive a car on garage plates doesn't count as making a car road legal.
And I don't even know why this is debated here because it is not the original subject. Subject is "was that car built as a road car or as a race car". Answers are simple : road cars for Gordinis, race cars for WRC / Gr.B, plain and simple.
They banned circuit racing. Rally, slalom and hillclimb has always been legal, with pretty iconic events being held. Also, the ban has been officially removed, which is why Formula E in Zurich id happening. Switzerland still lacks a permanent racetrack though, closest thing would be the TCS test center between Lausanne and Neuchâtel, where they already improvised a drift course.
Also, technically, Switzerland is more friendly to tuned cars than France. The only reason why it feels like the opposite is that nobody knows / care and enforce the laws in France / everything seems to fall under grey areas, until you're involved in a crash with casualties and someone suspects something is not OEM on your car. Technically, you would need to go through the homologation process for the whole car again after fitting a strut bar or a turbo kit if you want to be insured in a crash. Switzerland will just require you to have the part tested if it hasn't been done already, otherwise you just have to get a stamp on your title. People are complaining because testing parts yourself is expensive and because it prevents them from doing stupid unsafe mods, but at the end of the day you can triple the power of your car and have nobody being able to annoy you for it.
And I don't even know why this is debated here because it is not the original subject. Subject is "was that car built as a road car or as a race car". Answers are simple : road cars for Gordinis, race cars for WRC / Gr.B, plain and simple.
They banned circuit racing. Rally, slalom and hillclimb has always been legal, with pretty iconic events being held. Also, the ban has been officially removed, which is why Formula E in Zurich id happening. Switzerland still lacks a permanent racetrack though, closest thing would be the TCS test center between Lausanne and Neuchâtel, where they already improvised a drift course.
Also, technically, Switzerland is more friendly to tuned cars than France. The only reason why it feels like the opposite is that nobody knows / care and enforce the laws in France / everything seems to fall under grey areas, until you're involved in a crash with casualties and someone suspects something is not OEM on your car. Technically, you would need to go through the homologation process for the whole car again after fitting a strut bar or a turbo kit if you want to be insured in a crash. Switzerland will just require you to have the part tested if it hasn't been done already, otherwise you just have to get a stamp on your title. People are complaining because testing parts yourself is expensive and because it prevents them from doing stupid unsafe mods, but at the end of the day you can triple the power of your car and have nobody being able to annoy you for it.
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Scaff
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News flash, no cars are by default legal to drive any place in the world.
As someone who has worked with CoC's before its not that cut and dried.
As an example, the Renault Maxi Megane had specific CoC's for them, I know because back in the day I issued a number of them for export purposes when I worked for RUK.
You are also moving the goal posts, as the discussion was if they could be legally driven on the road, nothing more.
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Yeah, it's very similar to GT6. The only cars under Renault are the Gordini, the R5 Turbo, the Avantime, and a pair of Megane models. Otherwise, everything else is under Renault Sport, including any Megane with "RS" or "Trophy" in its name, as well as the rally-spec version of the R5 Turbo.
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- StirlingMoose
Got into the points at Monza in the Nostalgic Cup. It handles rather horribly on RS tyres with the stock set-up. Proper jellycar actually. Rolled it three times on my first attempt. Got to stay off those sausages. Entertaining though.
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Well...
Rally cars are an exception, built to specific standards and m i g h t be allowed to be driven through the EU if it’s on EU plates and if it is driven while competing.
Unfortunately there is no EU law that allows any vehicle To be driven through the union as long as it is registrerad and considered legal in any one member state.
Strictly unmodified cars, yes. They cannot be restricted, as that would constirute a trade restriction and a breach to the principles of free mobility,
Still, there’s been a lot of UK trackday enthusiasts who have been handed tickets from Germanys finest for modifications considered unsafe in Germany.
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