Gr.1 problem...
- Thread starter rex1825
- 62 comments
- 11,536 views
- 3,832
- Philippines
- GBalao888
- GBalao888
Some of the Group C prototypes need to have their realistic specs. There's no way that they got bumped up to horsepower and torque levels like that in real life. These would make them untouchable on the straights somewhat and the other Gr. 1 cars cannot keep up.
Some of the hybrid prototypes will also need their realistic power (including electric power) shown. It seems as if their horsepower figures in the game are only from the combustion engine and not also their hybrid power.
The next update should recalibrate their specs and physics to the following:
Group C:
Jaguar XJR-9 '88: 749hp, 575.7lb/ft
Mazda 787B '91: 690hp, 448.4lb/ft
Mercedes Benz Sauber C9 '89: 710hp, 578.6lb/ft
Nissan R92CP '92: 788hp, 578.6lb/ft
Hybrid:
Audi R18 (Audi Sport Team Joest) '16: 990hp (must be 4WD)
Nissan GT-R LM NISMO '15: 1250hp
Porsche 919 Hybrid (Porsche Team) '16: 900hp
Toyota TS030 Hybrid '12- 830hp
Toyota TS050 - Hybrid (Toyota Gazoo Racing) '16: 986hp
Vision:
Audi Vision Gran Turismo: 1274hp
Peugeot L750R Hybrid Vision Gran Turismo 2017: 750hp
Some of the hybrid prototypes will also need their realistic power (including electric power) shown. It seems as if their horsepower figures in the game are only from the combustion engine and not also their hybrid power.
The next update should recalibrate their specs and physics to the following:
Group C:
Jaguar XJR-9 '88: 749hp, 575.7lb/ft
Mazda 787B '91: 690hp, 448.4lb/ft
Mercedes Benz Sauber C9 '89: 710hp, 578.6lb/ft
Nissan R92CP '92: 788hp, 578.6lb/ft
Hybrid:
Audi R18 (Audi Sport Team Joest) '16: 990hp (must be 4WD)
Nissan GT-R LM NISMO '15: 1250hp
Porsche 919 Hybrid (Porsche Team) '16: 900hp
Toyota TS030 Hybrid '12- 830hp
Toyota TS050 - Hybrid (Toyota Gazoo Racing) '16: 986hp
Vision:
Audi Vision Gran Turismo: 1274hp
Peugeot L750R Hybrid Vision Gran Turismo 2017: 750hp
- 508
- New Jersey
- AMS_Windfire
- 384
- Crete
The main difference betweeen hybrids and non-hybrids is of course acceleration and top speed. Hybrids have a superior acceleration but they lack the top speed of the regular non-hybrid cars. But besides Le Man very few circuits have straights long enough in order for the non-hybrids to really benefit from their top speed advantage , while hybrids can use their acceleration advantage in any track (basically the reason why we don't see conventional LMPs from the top teams anymore)
The obvious solution is the seperation of the current Gr.1 class into hybrids and non-hybrids , but knowing PD , i don't see this happening anytime soon.
The obvious solution is the seperation of the current Gr.1 class into hybrids and non-hybrids , but knowing PD , i don't see this happening anytime soon.
- 324
- Germany at Nürburgring
I partly agree with you. But if you want realistic Power, the Nissan GT-R LM Nismo should have only 550hp and pure FWD.
They never got the Electic engine to work and only had their Petrol Engine as the only power source.
That's why it was 20 secounds of the pace of the Porsche 919 in Le Mans and even the LMP2 cars where faster overall.
Nissan could never proof the car really had 1250hp as it never worked in reallife.
- 1,605
- Greece
- Giorgos_Ferrari
- 49
- Roodepoort
Hi. Im using the R92CP in GR1 and the porsche 919 is left looking for parking. A good understanding of car setup is all it takes to make the group C cars handle.
- 667
- Raleigh, North Carolina
- dawson864
I just want to chime in here to agree that these cars need to be split up. It's absolute nonsense to include the VGTs with rear race cars. Pick one or the other, not both.
- 49
- Roodepoort
The worst one of them all is that thing with flaps that keep popping up and down. Reminds me of a lizard.
- 3,954
- Laguna
- Alpha_Cipher1
Luckily Race C this week allows tuning so maybe, maybe you can tune the cars to have a slightly better chance against LMP1-Hs. But then again you can tune the latter as well. Most of the time you can't even tune them in the first place
No one is using a Group C in the top 10 leaderboards for a reason.
TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
- Australia
If PD dont want to do that sort of grouping granularity then they should make events that only allow certain cars instead of a just a "Group 1" umbrella.
I see no reason why they cant do a Group C festival with the four cars we have.
Maybe then a LMP1-H race with only the newest hybrid cars and so on.
I see no reason why they cant do a Group C festival with the four cars we have.
Maybe then a LMP1-H race with only the newest hybrid cars and so on.
- 1,371
- Serbia
- Warlock__SRB
@TonyJZX that is one solution for sure.
Another week is here, another Race C is here, and guess what, it is Gr.1 race. And new problems arise. VGT cars are not competitive here, since it is a R18 event as everyone can see... and do you guys know why is it like that? Because someone over there in PD said, let's make all cars have same fuel amount. 919 should have around 63l, and R18 should have around 54l, that would made change and rivalry between those too. But no, it is what it is.
But problem that I wanna discuss today is why LMP1 and odler LMP1 cars cannot be in same group. So it is fight between R18 16' and 908 10'. Both are diesel cars, so they are economical right. But there are differences, R18 is made by newest rules, while 908 is old school with proper V12.
And here is data from my MPG testing: R18 16' ~285km; 908 10' ~270km. By this data it seems that R18 has better chance in this race.
Let's take BoP in calculation: R18 16' 100% Power, 100% Weight, so no changes, still ~285km; 908 10' 90% Power, 100% Weight, so this changes a bit consumption to ~282km, so now they are almost even, or are they?
R18 gives constant 527hp and has 1929lbs, 908 has 630hp (BoP) and 2050lbs, so it is heavier but has more constant power, but peak power goes to R18, since it's hidden eV part that should have around 300kW additionally.
So all in all, R18 seems as better solution right? Well, I am not best driver in the world, but with both cars I can achieve approximately same lap times around LeMans, so you ask what is the problem?!?!
Look at those two pictures now:
First one is R18s, second one is 908s. Problem that R18 has it needs to rev all the way up to limiter in order to get that max power output, while 908 doesn't need (shifts at around 5500-6000), but can. This means that 908 can fuel save a lot and not loosing lap times at all. And all this is because PD chooses to make MPG calculations on AT transmission with BoP included, so everyone is happy and can play the game.
And in this weeks Race C, you need when in good group to drive R18 hard, and use up apporx 165-170l of fuel, while you can do same thing in 908 with 110-115l. Now if both cars can do same lap times (at least I can do approx same times with custom setups, around 3:22s) this means that R18 will lose a lot of time refueling. So, why would I choose R18 over 908, to get that boost at start and constantly hope for more boost after every corner, yet track is power oriented with long straights?!
There are more of these examples, but 908 is in it's own class with this. Simple older LMP1 cars cannot be in same group as newer ones. Same goes for VGTs and Gr.C.
What's even worse, all Gr.C cars must be revved in order to get at least some good times, and by revving you lose a lot in pits. Higher revs, more fuel is needed.
This needs to be addressed ASAP.
Another week is here, another Race C is here, and guess what, it is Gr.1 race. And new problems arise. VGT cars are not competitive here, since it is a R18 event as everyone can see... and do you guys know why is it like that? Because someone over there in PD said, let's make all cars have same fuel amount. 919 should have around 63l, and R18 should have around 54l, that would made change and rivalry between those too. But no, it is what it is.
But problem that I wanna discuss today is why LMP1 and odler LMP1 cars cannot be in same group. So it is fight between R18 16' and 908 10'. Both are diesel cars, so they are economical right. But there are differences, R18 is made by newest rules, while 908 is old school with proper V12.
And here is data from my MPG testing: R18 16' ~285km; 908 10' ~270km. By this data it seems that R18 has better chance in this race.
Let's take BoP in calculation: R18 16' 100% Power, 100% Weight, so no changes, still ~285km; 908 10' 90% Power, 100% Weight, so this changes a bit consumption to ~282km, so now they are almost even, or are they?
R18 gives constant 527hp and has 1929lbs, 908 has 630hp (BoP) and 2050lbs, so it is heavier but has more constant power, but peak power goes to R18, since it's hidden eV part that should have around 300kW additionally.
So all in all, R18 seems as better solution right? Well, I am not best driver in the world, but with both cars I can achieve approximately same lap times around LeMans, so you ask what is the problem?!?!
Look at those two pictures now:
First one is R18s, second one is 908s. Problem that R18 has it needs to rev all the way up to limiter in order to get that max power output, while 908 doesn't need (shifts at around 5500-6000), but can. This means that 908 can fuel save a lot and not loosing lap times at all. And all this is because PD chooses to make MPG calculations on AT transmission with BoP included, so everyone is happy and can play the game.
And in this weeks Race C, you need when in good group to drive R18 hard, and use up apporx 165-170l of fuel, while you can do same thing in 908 with 110-115l. Now if both cars can do same lap times (at least I can do approx same times with custom setups, around 3:22s) this means that R18 will lose a lot of time refueling. So, why would I choose R18 over 908, to get that boost at start and constantly hope for more boost after every corner, yet track is power oriented with long straights?!
There are more of these examples, but 908 is in it's own class with this. Simple older LMP1 cars cannot be in same group as newer ones. Same goes for VGTs and Gr.C.
What's even worse, all Gr.C cars must be revved in order to get at least some good times, and by revving you lose a lot in pits. Higher revs, more fuel is needed.
This needs to be addressed ASAP.
TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
- Australia
That reflects real life. The Peugeot 908 is a phenomenon even today (FAP Power lol!).
The diesel twin turbo 5.5 litre V12 has the power at the low revs and has exceptional fuel economy.
I have no issues at all with an intermediate 2000-2010 class of LMP, hell I even think this may be the true golden age of LMPs being new enough that you arent saddled with a 5 speeds and you have both n/a motors, diesels and turbo gasoline engines without the hybrid nonsense.
The diesel twin turbo 5.5 litre V12 has the power at the low revs and has exceptional fuel economy.
I have no issues at all with an intermediate 2000-2010 class of LMP, hell I even think this may be the true golden age of LMPs being new enough that you arent saddled with a 5 speeds and you have both n/a motors, diesels and turbo gasoline engines without the hybrid nonsense.
- 622
- Malaysia
- bazet_mpower
This is a fia approved arcade game ranked online racing 
- 748
- Canada
- hypershock12
I find it odd that they included the Group C cars with the other Gr.1s. They seem so out of place and primitive in comparison. I expected them to create another category named Gr.C for the Group C racers, but that didn't happen. The Group C racers have better top end speed(I think) but the LMP1s and other Gr.1 racers have better cornering capabilities. In a lot of the tracks, cornering speed is everything. That leaves the 787B, R92CP, C9 and the XJR-9 at a disadvantage.
- 49
- Roodepoort
Racing fun is a what it should be about. Having a group c car running 4th amongst lmp1 cars, to me is fun. Actually the best car to use for clean races.
Veinz
Premium
- 4,853
- Ontario
Mixing all these cars was a mistake. Not only are they unbalanced but it kind of ruins the authenticity of the game when you have LMP1, group c & VGTs together in one class.
They just created more of a headache for themselves bu having to balance all these cars, which they will never achieve.
It’s like putting the F1500 and W08 into their own seperate group category. Makes no sense.
They just created more of a headache for themselves bu having to balance all these cars, which they will never achieve.
It’s like putting the F1500 and W08 into their own seperate group category. Makes no sense.
- 3,954
- Laguna
- Alpha_Cipher1
It is, don't get me wrong. But it's really hard to be competitive with those cars because of the way they are. I really want to have fun with them, but I can't
SestoScudo
(Banned)
- 3,000
- Australia
- Decepticon 47
Please split Gr1 i dont want apologists saying its all fine.
Group C cant compete with LMP1-H. VGT should be GR1. VGT
If we get the Audi R10 how is it going to compete in the GR1 class when it would get whacked by the newer machines.
GR1 is my favourite class but has its potential sapped due to mixing of so many cars.
Group C cant compete with LMP1-H. VGT should be GR1. VGT
If we get the Audi R10 how is it going to compete in the GR1 class when it would get whacked by the newer machines.
GR1 is my favourite class but has its potential sapped due to mixing of so many cars.
Last edited:
- 5,844
- On the run
- NaveekDarkroom
I'm not advocating for splitting the current Group 1 roster into different classes. But the hybrids, or at least the 919 and '16 R18, need to be nerfed. The problem with the hybrids (Including the 919, 2016 R18, TS030, TS050; the Audi VGT and Peugeot L750R aren't so threatening) is that the power of the motors isn't listed, just the seemingly weak internal combustion output, meaning BOP doesn't affect them at all, aside from the Audi VGT and Peugeot L750R, which I wouldn't exactly call dominant regardless. The 919 especially has ridiculous low end acceleration. Though of course the hybrids just die at higher speeds.
- 1,371
- Serbia
- Warlock__SRB
250km/h (155mph) is eV part limiter so to say, even if they have more juice they don't utilize it after that speed...
- 1,371
- Serbia
- Warlock__SRB
...if PD is true to the real life counter parts, R18 should have approx 300kW and 919 should have approx 290kW, which brings those two to 930hp and 900hp respectively. ...and that is a lot of power!
- 1,371
- Serbia
- Warlock__SRB
...maybe slower depletion of battery and nerf on ICE would be better solution
- 434
- Australia
I'm hearing a lot of talk about Audi and Porsche's 2016 LMP competitors, but what about the Toyota TS050? Right now it's very bad in the corners, with its apex speeds nowhere near the likes of what its LMP1 rivals are capable of. Even acceleration and top speed are meh, so the only way it stands out is with great fuel consumption.
The problem in Gr.1 is that it is unbalanced and some cars don't deserve to be there. It should be separated into Gr.C, Gr.1 and Gr.1 H, or perhaps also adding Gr.1 VGT and Gr.1 VGT H to further organise the current roster of cars (plenty of cars to go around in each proposed group).
The problem in Gr.1 is that it is unbalanced and some cars don't deserve to be there. It should be separated into Gr.C, Gr.1 and Gr.1 H, or perhaps also adding Gr.1 VGT and Gr.1 VGT H to further organise the current roster of cars (plenty of cars to go around in each proposed group).
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