Grade the "American Revolution."

  • Thread starter Thread starter JohnBM01
  • 241 comments
  • 7,554 views
Lethalchem
There was a Cobra in 2001, but 2002 was skipped. There was 2003 and 2004 (leftovers? No changes were made), and 2005 was skipped. Seems to be an intentional pattern, and only the Ford GT threw it off a year. I don't see that as the same thing as the Supra's situation.

That's because directly after 2001 models were sold out, 2003 models were released, meaning you could always get a new Mustang Cobra. Ask Chevrolet about the 1983 Corvette.

There's a difference between this type of release schedule and the way it is now, where they're still finishing the vehicle - same goes for the new BMW M5. The vehicle itself may not be dead but it isn't on sale yet, and I go by what's on sale, not what's likely to come soon.
 
Actually the Corbra will be out in 2007, I just read something about it.
 
M5Power
Seen Cadillacs lately? Or many new Chevrolets?

im unimpressed by the new chevys. pretty much all of them. truly middle of the road, and nothing revolutionary about them. the mazda 6 is a revolutionary product, because it looks good, performs very well, and created an immediate lift for the brand, even though it is a midsize bread and butter car. thats what i call a revolution. sadly i dont see any of that spark from any chevys; range vs my pick in that category/ price range
corvette 👍 vette
the SSR is nowt but an overpriced albatross that isnt selling well; a gimmick that didnt work. boxster. or something classic, like an old galaxie or cuda or something. no use spending 40K on a wanna be truck that can only tow a jetski.
the lumina/ monte carlo are just more of the same; not exactly the receipe for revolution. (bah humbug and 👎 to a V8 FWD.) chrysler 300
malibu compares nicely to a 5 year old accord. mazda 6, accord, legacy, camry passat, bus pass
cobalt doesnt take any luster away from the mazda 3 (my pick of compacts) or even the civic and corolla. and it looks dull. again. mazda 3, civic, corolla, forenza, focus
the aveo is cheap i actually like it, but i think suzukis are better value. close call to forenza or used civic
colorado. not quite. good effort frontier (new one) or tacoma
big suvs, tahoe and 'burban 👍 but thats old product armada clsoe second is 'burb.
silverado i dont like them since the more angular styling a few yewars ago. shoulda stayed the same. (i have no use for a full size pickup, but ifi did i would prefer the titan followed by the cummins dodge.)
chevy equinox 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 my pick of small SUVs although it hasnt really stolen the limelight from CRV and RAV4. escape still the sales king. equinox
trailblazer. yuck. especially the long wheel base models. murano, (new) frontier
HHR actually looks better in the flesh than in the pics. at least in 20 inch wheels, and fab paint car show trim. we will see how it does and compares. get a regular car or an actual classic.
venture. puke. odyssey, the kia minivan

bar the vette and equinox, there is a competing model that I would prefer in every category and price range. and a second or third in most other categories. as you can see ive listed some. and some i wouldnt touch with someone elses ten foot pole.

-----------------------------------------

as for the caddies, yeah, cadillac came out swinging. but im convinced the germans are still making superior product, albeit at a much higher price.

my ratings
cadillac escallade and EXT- no valid comparison
cadillac SRX.- porsche and X5 compare favorably against it, albeit them being smaller and more expensive. lame duck M class no compatition for SRX. 1) porsche 2) (tie) bmw and caddy
CTS- compares very favorably with C class, 3 series, S type etal, but its slightly bigger. not superior to Eclass and 5 series which are almost similar size and a lot mroe expensive. superior to Xtype, lincoln LS et al. 1) 3 series 2) cadillac 3) C class, or 1) Eclass 2) 5 series 3) CTS
STS.- compares favorably with 5 series and E class. 1)benz 2) BMW 3) caddy. not quite with S class XJ8 and 7 though. also a tweener when it comes to sizes likes its smaller sibling.
DHS (do they still make it?) please retire already. not quite the image cadillac is gonig for. i think.
XLR. less than competitors. not at SL, porsche 911, BMW Z8, spyder levels yet though. better than the dated XK and IMO about the same as SC430. great product in a niche led by outstanding products. 1) 911 2) SL500 and co 3) Z8 4) maserati spyder 5) (tie) XLR and SC430
 
neanderthal
im unimpressed by the new chevys. pretty much all of them. truly middle of the road, and nothing revolutionary about them. the mazda 6 is a revolutionary product, because it looks good, performs very well, and created an immediate lift for the brand, even though it is a midsize bread and butter car. thats what i call a revolution. sadly i dont see any of that spark from any chevys; range vs my pick in that category/ price range
corvette 👍 vette
the SSR is nowt but an overpriced albatross that isnt selling well; a gimmick that didnt work. boxster. or something classic, like an old galaxie or cuda or something. no use spending 40K on a wanna be truck that can only tow a jetski.
the lumina/ monte carlo are just more of the same; not exactly the receipe for revolution. (bah humbug and 👎 to a V8 FWD.) chrysler 300
malibu compares nicely to a 5 year old accord. mazda 6, accord, legacy, camry passat, bus pass
cobalt doesnt take any luster away from the mazda 3 (my pick of compacts) or even the civic and corolla. and it looks dull. again. mazda 3, civic, corolla, forenza, focus
the aveo is cheap i actually like it, but i think suzukis are better value. close call to forenza or used civic
colorado. not quite. good effort frontier (new one) or tacoma
big suvs, tahoe and 'burban 👍 but thats old product armada clsoe second is 'burb.
silverado i dont like them since the more angular styling a few yewars ago. shoulda stayed the same. (i have no use for a full size pickup, but ifi did i would prefer the titan followed by the cummins dodge.)
chevy equinox 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 my pick of small SUVs although it hasnt really stolen the limelight from CRV and RAV4. escape still the sales king. equinox
trailblazer. yuck. especially the long wheel base models. murano, (new) frontier
HHR actually looks better in the flesh than in the pics. at least in 20 inch wheels, and fab paint car show trim. we will see how it does and compares. get a regular car or an actual classic.
venture. puke. odyssey, the kia minivan

bar the vette and equinox, there is a competing model that I would prefer in every category and price range. and a second or third in most other categories. as you can see ive listed some. and some i wouldnt touch with someone elses ten foot pole.

-----------------------------------------

as for the caddies, yeah, cadillac came out swinging. but im convinced the germans are still making superior product, albeit at a much higher price.

my ratings
cadillac escallade and EXT- no valid comparison
cadillac SRX.- porsche and X5 compare favorably against it, albeit them being smaller and more expensive. lame duck M class no compatition for SRX. 1) porsche 2) (tie) bmw and caddy
CTS- compares very favorably with C class, 3 series, S type etal, but its slightly bigger. not superior to Eclass and 5 series which are almost similar size and a lot mroe expensive. superior to Xtype, lincoln LS et al. 1) 3 series 2) cadillac 3) C class, or 1) Eclass 2) 5 series 3) CTS
STS.- compares favorably with 5 series and E class. 1)benz 2) BMW 3) caddy. not quite with S class XJ8 and 7 though. also a tweener when it comes to sizes likes its smaller sibling.
DHS (do they still make it?) please retire already. not quite the image cadillac is gonig for. i think.
XLR. less than competitors. not at SL, porsche 911, BMW Z8, spyder levels yet though. better than the dated XK and IMO about the same as SC430. great product in a niche led by outstanding products. 1) 911 2) SL500 and co 3) Z8 4) maserati spyder 5) (tie) XLR and SC430

Man I wish I could go car by car, but I have no time and I won't be back to this hell for a week. So whatever. But you're wrong on most of that and you make some pretty big assumptions especially for a few of these things where it's clear you've never even driven the vehicle in question, let alone consulted the price lists.
 
Do you think the latest ZO6 (based on the C6) will spark any shockwaves in the American sportscar market? Or do you think Ford's sporty offerings will beat or highly surpass Chevy's offerings?

I just seen an Aveo earlier today. The car didn't feel roomy to me at all. I'm a 6-foot tall skinny dude at about 165 or 175 lbs. I hope to REALLY go to the 2005 Houston Auto Show here locally to maybe check out the SSR truck. Chevy has that HSR (am I right?) SUV that has retro styling, but I think it looks... pretty good. I really dig the SSR. I'm not really a truck person (don't hate me, please! Texas is big on trucks), but that SSR is being told to be a modern hot rod truck. I may remember the Willys trucks, but this is more like a modern Willys, and I like it. I'd sure like to see how the next Monte Carlo will look in NASCAR, based on the styling of the latest Monte Carlo. Based on what I tried to talk about last year's Houston Auto Show, I'm not going to make a thread about it because I don't want to get hounded on for not having pictures to share. But I'll surely look into Chevy's offerings and share some of my views to all you beautiful people here on GTPlanet. Pending that I actually get a chance to go there.
 
I can't believe people are still debating this.

Revolution:

A sudden or momentous change in a situation: the revolution in computer technology.

I hardly see anything revolutionary. I mean, they still rely on huge simple engines for their power.
 
Well, if your going to get all semantic about it, then we don't have any thread, do we? ;)

John: I can't understand why you'd be anxious to see the new NASCAR 'Monte Carlo', it will bear almost no resembalance to the production version at all. Just like the current one.
 
MrktMkr1986
I can't wait for the new SVT Cobra to come out! That's an American Revolution.
Me either. It's going to have to be something really special in the performance department for me to trade my 03 Cobra in on it though.

JohnBM01
Do you think the latest ZO6 (based on the C6) will spark any shockwaves in the American sportscar market? Or do you think Ford's sporty offerings will beat or highly surpass Chevy's offerings?

That's not as simple to answer as it may appear on the surface. The new Z06 is going to be an amazing car, and in certain circles (small) it will be nirvana. The problem is it's a car that has a select customer base and income. Due to these facts I think the "shockwaves" will be limited to ripples of fanatic enthusiasm.

Ford, on the other hand, is attempting to do something new (albeit retro, which is kind of an odd way of looking at it) by revitalizing a whole new energy into their car lineup. I think this move brings in a much wider range of customer. Not only the young crowd who likes performance cars, but also the older crowd who actually remembered driving the old pony cars "back in the day". I think the fact that the Fords will appeal to a larger population will swing the "shockwave" in their favor.

Basically, to answer your question, Ford won't have any vehicle to compete with Chevy's offerings in the performance department (Z06 only, actually) except for the expensive and limited Ford GT (unless they do something unexpected with the Cobra, which I don't expect to see), but I think many more people have been pumped up about the "new stang" than the vette.

I think Ford will spark more attention than Chevy's lineup. It's got nothing to do with my Ford background, I just think Ford is giving a wider spectrum of customers an opportunity to enjoy the new product (Base V6, V8 GT, potential Mach and/or Boss, SVT Cobra, and the Shelby versions). There will be a car and performance level for just about everyone.
 
Well, not so much anxious to see a newer NASCAR Monte Carlo, but more curious about them. I like the Late Model stock car styling, so that would be nice to see either.

The 2007 Camaro? I've seen pictures before, and I didn't really like it. You might, but I didn't.
 
M5Power
Man I wish I could go car by car, but I have no time and I won't be back to this hell for a week. So whatever. But you're wrong on most of that and you make some pretty big assumptions especially for a few of these things where it's clear you've never even driven the vehicle in question, let alone consulted the price lists.


you're assuming im going by driving experience and price? thats part of it. im also using things like class, and size. but mostly im going by how I like them relative to their competition. and that competition could be based on of the four; size, price, class, hows it drive.

ive driven most of them. few in anger. im just not impressed. the caddys are real good; i just dont think theyve reached german levels yet, although they have reached japanese and british. thats not to say that BMW and mercedes are still light years ahead; mre like they just ahve something that still separates them from the wannabes. could be i just want to see GM suceed and stay successful, like, for example, the germans, have done. call me biased against one hit wonders.

VWs top class interiors in the compact car class dont make me vote for them. nissans horsepower in most classes doenst either. my selections are more of a "the whole package" deal, and there, GM has fallen short.
not revolutionary.
 
lethalchem
i think youre right about the Z06s appeal being limited to a select fanatical few. projections are that the price is goin up a lot; getting close to the seventies. thats approaching porsche 911 money. but porsche is seen as a luxury/ aspirational brand, while chevy is ..................what exactly?
i think many of the unwashed masses will simply say "id rather get the porker," not recognising that the Z06 is a quality piece. i think that will limit its appeal. kinda like the ZR1. fortunately the "base" corvette is a great car already.

as for ford, i believe its greatest asset is that its making a pony car for everyone like you said. if they continue to make limited runs of focused, niche, halo models like the GT and GR1 and so on, i believe they could imbue thier brand with that joie de vivre that the mustang currently enjoys. but otherwise thier lineup is really really boring.
i think the super duty should have looked a lot more like the tonka concept from a few years back. the 500 is a "me too" avalon that just screams "old peoples car." we got cheated out of a new chassis for the focus, but most wont know. the little SUV is nice though. i just cant remember its name right now.

ultimately theres nothing really inspiring and attention grabbing in the lineup like the magum/ 300 duo, mustang aside. and i think thats thier biggest failing.
DC has the viper, magnum/ 300/ charger, SRT-4 triumverate. something for everyone, with a new corvette fighter supposedly on the way. what is fords riposte going to be? with no (affordable) SVT models currently in production? a well sorted neon could signal a seismic shift IMO. chrysler already has good buzz thanks to that (now tedious) HEMI engine and the 300/ magnum. if they come out with a quality small car; very good looks, nice interior (at least similar in feel and look to the japanese,) good all round performance and economy, and then cap it off with another well sorted SRT-4..... well, you can see.
 
Josh_101
I heard that GM might bring back the Camaro for 07. Anybody know anything about it?


This is false, I worked at both the truck mock-up and car mock-up at General Motors world headquaters in Warren, MI over the summer as an intern. I saw nothing and heard nothing that the Camaro would be back in 07. If it was going to back in 07 I would have at least seen a clay.
 
BlazinXtreme
This is false, I worked at both the truck mock-up and car mock-up at General Motors world headquaters in Warren, MI over the summer as an intern. I saw nothing and heard nothing that the Camaro would be back in 07. If it was going to back in 07 I would have at least seen a clay.

I have no doubts the Camaro will be built again at some point, but I'm kind of like you, I think we would have heard something if it was going to be coming out in 07, because they get released a little earlier (06). I think Chevy counted on the GTO to do better than it did, and now they're stuck out in the open with nothing to offer for the average buyer.
 
some cars have just come out of left field. developed in near top secret and then released to an unsuspecting world. only the carrera GT sticks to mind right now, althogh there have been otheres that were shown as concepts and went into production after a short gestation period.

lets hope thats the case.
 
neanderthal
you're assuming im going by driving experience and price? thats part of it. im also using things like class, and size. but mostly im going by how I like them relative to their competition. and that competition could be based on of the four; size, price, class, hows it drive.

ive driven most of them. few in anger. im just not impressed. the caddys are real good; i just dont think theyve reached german levels yet, although they have reached japanese and british. thats not to say that BMW and mercedes are still light years ahead; mre like they just ahve something that still separates them from the wannabes. could be i just want to see GM suceed and stay successful, like, for example, the germans, have done. call me biased against one hit wonders.

VWs top class interiors in the compact car class dont make me vote for them. nissans horsepower in most classes doenst either. my selections are more of a "the whole package" deal, and there, GM has fallen short.
not revolutionary.

Since I seriously doubt you've hit puberty judging by the content of your posts, I'm going to wave a BS flag on you driving most of the cars you've talked about.
 
Ghost C
Since I seriously doubt you've hit puberty judging by the content of your posts, I'm going to wave a BS flag on you driving most of the cars you've talked about.

im 32.

im in the tire industry. opportunities to go on "ride and drives" come several times a year.
what you got to say to that?
 
MrktMkr1986
Can I have your job?
A friend of a friend of mine owns a warehouse that sometimes holds the test cars they give to auto journalists in this reigon. Of course, the cars need to be broken in before the journalists get them. Guess who gets to do that? (No, him, not me.)
 
Emohawk
A friend of a friend of mine owns a warehouse that sometimes holds the test cars they give to auto journalists in this reigon. Of course, the cars need to be broken in before the journalists get them. Guess who gets to do that? (No, him, not me.)

Now that sounds like the ultimate job! 👍
 
neanderthal
some cars have just come out of left field. developed in near top secret and then released to an unsuspecting world. only the carrera GT sticks to mind right now, althogh there have been otheres that were shown as concepts and went into production after a short gestation period.

lets hope thats the case.

I will bet you a million dollars that there will be no production Camaro in 2007. I've seen quite a few cars and trucks that were classified by GM. I got to sit in a C6 Z06 before it was seen at the NAIAS. Believe me or not.

There might be a concepts in the works, I wasn't deep into the Design Dome at the Warren Tech Center.
 
BlazinXtreme
I will bet you a million dollars that there will be no production Camaro in 2007. I've seen quite a few cars and trucks that were classified by GM. I got to sit in a C6 Z06 before it was seen at the NAIAS. Believe me or not.

There might be a concepts in the works, I wasn't deep into the Design Dome at the Warren Tech Center.

That makes sense. Why would GM bring back the Camaro when the GTO is available?
 
Well the GTO isn't selling as well as GM hoped. For a base price of 32k you sort of lost the F-Body crowd. I mean you used to be able to pick up a low end V6 F-body for a reasonable new price. Plus for 32k you can pick up a BMW that handles better and has a better ride then the GTO.

If GM wants to keep the GTO competitive they really need to think about an actual design, rather then a rebadged Holden.
 
They'll probably bring it back for more competition with the Ford Mustang. Which will probably respond by making the mustang even more wicked than it already is.
 
Wow! Neanderthal just OWNED somebody.

I got full respect for the Camaro. Why so? It was the car that got me into cars. I used to think it was some supercar (especially the mid-late 1990s Camaros) when I was inexperienced. I think the one I liked the most was the Camaro RS with a sporty front bumper and subtle rear wing. I think the next Camaro should be one of two things:

1.) an evolution from the sweet F-Body Camaros and Firebird/Trans-Am
...or...
2.) a hark back to the Yenko Camaros that should challenge the newest Mustang in terms of retro styling and pure American power

Now sure, the Camaro is no Corvette. But it was still a sweet offering for those who wanted to take on other pony cars. America's version of Holden Commodore vs. Ford Falcon is Camaro vs. Mustang. Just like any college sports fan, such rivalries never die (I just can't wait to see Duke/UNC in college hoops). It will be interesting to see what GM will do with the Camaro to answer to Ford. Let's see if the Camaro will be "built for the road ahead" to battle the Mustang.
 
I didn't really like the styling of the last camaro...Something about the headlight and the nose bugged me. The headlights for some reason remind me of the Supra. The Audi TT even. If the camaro does start using retro styling, it will be huge. Like...I mean giant. And it will look more like the mustang as opposed to sleak and narrow like the last one.
 
neanderthal
im 32.

im in the tire industry. opportunities to go on "ride and drives" come several times a year.
what you got to say to that?

Okay, since you're 32, post a picture of your ID with a sign saying "Hi GTP" next to it. Blur out everything but the date of birth, if you want.

Wow! Neanderthal just OWNED somebody.

I'm sixty seven! Does that mean I just owned him? :rolleyes:
 
Back