Gran Turismo 6 AI discussion

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plenty of other racing games have career mode & difficulty settings. It's not rocket science.

Especially if they actually design the races with restrictions (tyres, weight, HP, model) like actual racing.

Well if you consider GT's career mode like an RPG MMO game, then you can see why it's not as easy as having an Easy, Medium, Hard difficulty system...

The people on easy, will have more cars, credits etc
Everyone would just go easy, to avoid the grind etc
 
Unfortunately, not being able to catch the rabbit is not proper indication of an acceptable AI level in any way. When you start 12th from a rolling start, you shouldn't be expected to catch the leader in 2-3 laps. Not to mention you were in a tuned nissan overtaking faster supercars in corners like they were fiats .
I think thats why they implemented this "chase the rabbit" formula in the first place, they knew the AI was to slow and easy if everyone got a fair chance with a normal fixed start, so changing it to the rabbit thing would give the ilusion you were actually having a "race"...

It only serves to fustrate you even more tough, because it's just a hasty race against the clock to be able to catch the first bot that mostly drives away from all the other zombies whilst you are working your way through them...
 
Well if you consider GT's career mode like an RPG MMO game, then you can see why it's not as easy as having an Easy, Medium, Hard difficulty system...

The people on easy, will have more cars, credits etc
Everyone would just go easy, to avoid the grind etc
Easy; give less PP and credits according to the difficulty level you select...
 
plenty of other racing games have career mode & difficulty settings. It's not rocket science.

Especially if they actually design the races with restrictions (tyres, weight, HP, model) like actual racing.

Exactly. To me there's no excuse in not having difficulty settings in GT.

ASpec and Seasonals are nothing more than 5 lap overtake challenges. You can make it as challenging as you want by using a lesser car, downgrading tires etc... But you don't ever race the AI, only the clock.
 
Long post coming, sorry. Partly responding, partly just opining.


Well if you consider GT's career mode like an RPG MMO game, then you can see why it's not as easy as having an Easy, Medium, Hard difficulty system...

In what way? Many RPGs (even some MMO's) use various versions of a "hard" mode to make the experience more enjoyable for people who want more of a challenge(or just longer combat duration and more grinding).

This is a completely different situation anyway. There is no reason whatsoever that competent racers should not have the option to have AI that drives competently, and which does not require you to race them with a car that shouldn't even be remotely competitive in order to have any challenge at all(aliens notwithstanding - there are a small few who will probably never get challenge enough). There is also no reason this needs to affect a "ramping-up" effect where the opponents become more difficult as you progress further in your career, if you believe such a thing is even really necessary.

There is also no reason that you shouldn't have the option to race with a field of cars in which every car has a chance to win instead of 1-2 fast cars followed by a progressively slower series of backmarkers who have zero chance of catching and passing the car in front and 1-2 cars at the back who are ten or more seconds per lap slower than the next car up the order. If all the cars are roughly equal, qualifying becomes a much more valid option as well(and championships take on a whole new life). If the AI's speed can also be adjusted to suit the player, you can have a competitive race from start to finish at a variety of skill levels rather than a traditional video game styled pass-the-obstacle-cars test as you chase a rabbit.

Of course you can make these things optional to suit each gamer's tastes. Any major variations in gameplay of course do require additional balancing and testing.

The people on easy, will have more cars, credits etc
Everyone would just go easy, to avoid the grind etc

There is proof that "everyone" would do this? Some people will always take the easy road, that's their choice and their right. Some people will not. Some people made GT5 as difficult as it could possibly be even to the point of quitting races when they felt their "user-created" diffculty level was too low, even if this meant making the game take much longer with no tangible benefit.

This issue is also easily mitigated by the very common technique of introducing a varying level of rewards so higher difficulties and more challenging options mean greater rewards, which has the added benefit of encouraging people to go beyond what's comfortable and try the more "advanced" settings.



Of course, none of this will happen in GT6, PD clearly doesn't agree that any of it is necessary. The best we can hope for is that the AI's lines will be a little better to reduce the likelihood of braking on corner exits and perhaps that they'll do a little something to eliminate the "idiot spots" like the Cape Ring loop, and that they'll further refine their player-avoidance to cut down on the parking.

They particularly need to completely eliminate the "parking while directly in front" behavior that makes even complete newbies with no knowledge of racing technique go crazy and turns even those casual players off of the game. I would not recommend GT5 to anyone who wants to play offline for that single issue, as I've seen it myself frustrating a non-gamer who was excited to try until that happened repeatedly through no fault of her own. Forcing seasoned and competent players to put up with such an annoying non-optional technique which destroys any semblance of "racing" for the presumed purpose of making the game friendlier to lower-skill players is bad enough, but when that technique frustrates and alienates the lower-skilled and unfamiliar players you've clearly done something quite wrong.

The sad thing is that whether or not there are actual improvements in the current AI over the AI at launch, they are masked by the horrible flaws introduced and there is no question that the GT5 AI before it was updated was clearly superior because of that. Even after the update the bots will still ram right into you from behind or alongside in nearly every case they would have before, and if the "parking" was meant to make them function better when being lapped(on the rare occasions that is possible) it fails miserably at that as well as it does not reflect how it really happens and actually makes passing lapped traffic much harder than it originally was, at least for the player - it does seem to help the bots a little.

GT5's AI is certainly an impovement, each game seems to get a tiny bit better. Note that "improvement" here means more competent, not necessarily faster -- that's a different issue. The "improved GT5 AI' however was a serious regression over its original form. GT6 will hopefully be a tiny bit better again, but it needs to be more than a tiny bit better and they need to completely re-address what they did when they patched GT5. AI is difficult to get right and there are limited resources for getting it right, but there are a few things that just have to be right... and adjustable difficulty can help with the rest.
 
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For me GT5 is a big time trial. The other cars are only there for you not to run alone, since they offer no resistance. What i found extremely disappointing was the fact that the game prioritized the race against the clock and not against opponents. It's a question of you always try to lower your time, which eventually becomes frustrating because everything becomes boring and monotonous, since basically it becomes a matter of trial and error, and you spend so much time on it. Is exhaustive in some cases.

The career mode is a big joke, even if you choose a inferior car, due to the passivity of the AI still you will have no trouble in winning. I think they should seek a balance between the challenging and the fun, because there's no way enjoy GT6 if the AI continue submissive like this. And i think they should bring back the restrictions to the races too.
 
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I don't know how representative of the final game this AI is, but it looks to be no faster/more human than GT5. That lap was riddled with driver errors, and the player was still at least a second faster than the AI, who were in the same cars.

 
Which begs the question, why don't we have the same AI for A-spec races if they proved they can do it (at least to an extend)? Maybe they actually want the AI to be crap for some weird twisted reason.

Or else they could extend arcade mode to allow custom championships and qualifying sessions.....
 
I'd be intrigued to learn what people want from an "improved" AI. My guess: being chased by the AI while still being able to win the race easily. Before you answer take a second to look into your heart. Deep down, you know, you can't really stand losing. Especially if the AI pulls some "dirty" moves like defending the line or dive bombing you.

Please, take another second to question yourself: would you be able to seriously race by the standards you would like to see from the AI? I mean really? Giving room, show "appropriate" aggression without jeopardising the race?

Thirdly, do you race with damage set to "high"? Would you? Would you risk loosing a two hour race just because you pushed too hard on the final corner?

I'm of the opinion that what people want and what they say they want are two different things.

Within reason, the only "one size fits all" approach would be rubberband AI. Gives the impression of a close chase, but is essentially scripted. Do you really want that? Deep down, you know?
 
I'd be intrigued to learn what people want from an "improved" AI. My guess: being chased by the AI while still being able to win the race easily. Before you answer take a second to look into your heart. Deep down, you know, you can't really stand losing. Especially if the AI pulls some "dirty" moves like defending the line or dive bombing you.

Please, take another second to question yourself: would you be able to seriously race by the standards you would like to see from the AI? I mean really? Giving room, show "appropriate" aggression without jeopardising the race?

Thirdly, do you race with damage set to "high"? Would you? Would you risk loosing a two hour race just because you pushed too hard on the final corner?

I'm of the opinion that what people want and what they say they want are two different things.

Within reason, the only "one size fits all" approach would be rubberband AI. Gives the impression of a close chase, but is essentially scripted. Do you really want that? Deep down, you know?

That's why AI strenght and damages realism are tweakable on real simulators
 
as an example, if you select maximum opponent strenght in GTR2 (a game from 2006), chances of winning the race starting from the bottom line are ZERO, and still very low if you start from pole position
 
but still nowhere near good enough. PD's crappy AI was ok when you only had PS1 digital controllers, but even then people complained they were too simplistic. Forgivable perhaps on the PS1, but honestly it has barely improved since.
Frankly, I haven't been more impressed by other games' bots, so it's a YMMV thing.

I'd be intrigued to learn what people want from an "improved" AI. My guess: being chased by the AI while still being able to win the race easily. Before you answer take a second to look into your heart. Deep down, you know, you can't really stand losing. Especially if the AI pulls some "dirty" moves like defending the line or dive bombing you.

Please, take another second to question yourself: would you be able to seriously race by the standards you would like to see from the AI? I mean really? Giving room, show "appropriate" aggression without jeopardising the race?

Thirdly, do you race with damage set to "high"? Would you? Would you risk loosing a two hour race just because you pushed too hard on the final corner?
I'll be honest. While I do want damage on high, in GT5 it's barely implemented, so I just leave it off rather than let it make my car look ugly instead of damaged. Most likely, since it sounds like the same sort of damage build for GT6, I'll do the same thing. I race in Forza 4 with sim level damage, but that's mostly for the credits because the bots are murderous bratty tards, so it becomes a handicap and a reason to do-over rather than something that makes racing better.

In GT6 I want a steady progression through the game until those last enduros. When I beat the game to my satisfaction rather than slog through all the endurance races, then I'll race it with a "come what may" attitude. It's how I race in Arcade Mode. I use a Seasonal event to farm for credits. But I agree with you that most people want a challenge until they can't win. That would vex me too, or a game in which you had to race 99% perfectly to make first. A race I would have to do fifty times or more to beat would make me sell the game. I don't need that level of frustration.
 
I'd be intrigued to learn what people want from an "improved" AI. My guess: being chased by the AI while still being able to win the race easily. Before you answer take a second to look into your heart. Deep down, you know, you can't really stand losing. Especially if the AI pulls some "dirty" moves like defending the line or dive bombing you.

Please, take another second to question yourself: would you be able to seriously race by the standards you would like to see from the AI? I mean really? Giving room, show "appropriate" aggression without jeopardising the race?

Thirdly, do you race with damage set to "high"? Would you? Would you risk loosing a two hour race just because you pushed too hard on the final corner?

I'm of the opinion that what people want and what they say they want are two different things.

Within reason, the only "one size fits all" approach would be rubberband AI. Gives the impression of a close chase, but is essentially scripted. Do you really want that? Deep down, you know?

What I want? A challenge.

If the race is long enough that you're not forced to take every passing opportunity, I enjoy racing cleanly. It's an added challenge and it makes the replays look better. Although if you've only got 3 laps to get past a whole field of cars, you're kind of forced to pass however you can, clean or not.

Yeah, I race with damage on.

Yeah, I want AI that will defend, will attack aggressively if I leave the door open, will find another way around when I get defensive. Isn't that the point? Isn't that the fun of racing?

Ultimately, I need to know that I have a chance to win each race. It's no fun if you lose because you couldn't win. I have no problems with losing a close and well fought race though. If I spend the whole race fighting back and forth for third, I've probably had more fun than if I was in first after the second corner.

But that's just me. I've been racing online for years. I'm not an alien, and I've learned to deal with the fact that when I'm racing other people I end up mid-pack at best. I can enjoy that, and it's not very hard to transpose that mindset into offline play.

Racecraft is what I enjoy, not proving how big my wang is by beating PDs rubbish AI. But each to their own.
 
How hard can improving an AI be?

I'm thinking a proper AI would be driving with the same physics as the gamer. And should probably be an algorithm that actually drives a virtual car. Now if you imagine your self driving at the limit ... looking at apexes, anticipating other cars, feeling the grip, managing braking, amount of steering, throttle control, recovering from slips and slides, etc. This is what we would expect from the a good AI and it would be a heck of a big and complex algorithm. I do not think it would be easy at all.

My background in programming has nothing to do with AI so I'm not really sure.
 
For me there's more to GT6 then the AI, sure I'd like to see some sort of improvement but it's not something that will stop me buying the game nor enjoying it.
 
I have no problems with losing a close and well fought race though. If I spend the whole race fighting back and forth for third, I've probably had more fun than if I was in first after the second corner.

This x100. I'd rather come 5th and win nothing but having a great close race than win racing car xxx that costs millions after a boring race against myself.

There's simply no reason to have AI cars if they're going to behave passively. Might as well remove and replace them with target times to beat.
 
strategic ability, driving skills, likelihood to error, and inclination towards putting the player under pressure

That would certainly make for a more dynamic races experiences, but especially the likelihood to making errors would, if overdone, make the game more or less a lottery. It worked in Grid very well I think, but still it can be a bit random at times.

I watched some GT endurance lately, I think it was the BritishGT on Silverstone that was on, and just as I finished commenting the carnage on screen as "there's too many egos with too much money on the track right now" an interview came up with a driver who said "the driver of the Ginetta has just caused a 70.000 pounds accident because he couldn't stand being beaten fair and square by me.".

I didn't feel like watching another 2 hours of this nonsense and switched off.

What I would like to say with this is: even if you manage to capture all of what you said an put it into a game AI, what if it turns out to be like in this real life race in Silverstone? I guess the perfect AI would have to be better than real life itself. Tough call if you ask me.

Second point: I don't see anything major wrong with GT5 Arcade AI, and would be happy if it returns with some tweaking.

I'm not even sure a few gameplay decisions, like having a handicap for the human player (weight, restrictor plates, lesser tyres, whatever) and bumping the field from 12/16 to 36 or 48 opponents (yeah, I know, a man can still dream, can't he?), rewarding the player not only for 1st place finishes, etc. could drastically change the way how the AI is looked upon.

That, or cut the whole comedy and switch to rubberbanded AI. Tricky.

That's a rather tough call, and with all the experience I have with GT5 AI, it's gameplay decisions that makes the experience fall short (lack of customization of the opponent's cars/the grid, individual skills, some rather dumb breaking points, dodgy tyre choices, dodgy pit strategy).

Frankly, I haven't been more impressed by other games' bots, so it's a YMMV thing.


I'll be honest. While I do want damage on high, in GT5 it's barely implemented, so I just leave it off rather than let it make my car look ugly instead of damaged. Most likely, since it sounds like the same sort of damage build for GT6, I'll do the same thing. I race in Forza 4 with sim level damage, but that's mostly for the credits because the bots are murderous bratty tards, so it becomes a handicap and a reason to do-over rather than something that makes racing better.

In GT6 I want a steady progression through the game until those last enduros. When I beat the game to my satisfaction rather than slog through all the endurance races, then I'll race it with a "come what may" attitude. It's how I race in Arcade Mode. I use a Seasonal event to farm for credits. But I agree with you that most people want a challenge until they can't win. That would vex me too, or a game in which you had to race 99% perfectly to make first. A race I would have to do fifty times or more to beat would make me sell the game. I don't need that level of frustration.

I see the AI as part as the racing experience as well, just that it's one element of may to make a race exciting, rewarding and - fun.

As I mentioned, I watch a lot of (GT) racing, and as GT racing is dominated by gentleman drivers, there are, in some series, just too many half-wits with too deep pockets and not enough skill by far. It's a pain watching this.

Being an endurance racing fan, there are many who race to a schedule and Audi who just throws money at the races to secure a win in the end because it doesn't matter how many cars they wreck in the process of getting to the top of the podium.

I often had the feeling the AI in GT5 raced to a schedule, they usually were much more kind to their tyres than I was. But this didn't pay off, because the races were either too short or the tyre wear was not quite balanced.

What I'm trying to say: "real life" doesn't give one a good racing experience. Staging races by using rubberbanded AI does, and it can accomplish a "one size fits all approach". But I'm not saying the gameplay of GT can be tweaked to make (short) races much more "fun".

I was seriously surprised so many struggled with the original expert seasonals, because all it took was some dedication and basic racing skills. And I'm not even racing competitive anymore, just for fun and laughs. An AI that would challenge me (and remember, I'm neither that fast nor arrogant) would put off the majority of your everyday GT player. And these are those who pay the bills at the end of the day.
 
Personally, I'd like to see the AI have different personalities. What I've noticed in GT5 is that the all the AI cars break practically at the same spot, and give the same amount of throttle going into corners. I would like to see more variation in personalities of AI Drivers. For example have some passive drivers, which would break early and be more easy on the throttle. Then you could also have more aggressive drivers which try to break late and try to give as much throttle in a corner as possible. I want to see the AI make mistakes sometimes. For example, an aggressive driver breaking way too late and simply going off track, or giving too much throttle in a corner and having to catch a slide or spinning out.

Seeing AI mistakes would add a greater sense of human feeling to the AI, and they simply won't be seen as dumb bots. Plus it will be nice seeing all the different personalities of the AI.
 
I would literally cry if GT6 comes out and they haven't bothered improving the AI. If we have to deal with the same blind bots that come to a halt in the middle of slow corners, and 'surrender ' to you if you pass them, combined with the chase the rabbit formula we had in GT5, will you go out and buy GT6?

Also for the lucky few that actually had the chance to try GT6 @ E3, have you noticed any difference in the AI? This as no one that wrote a report about it seems to have mentioned it so far.

I think thats why they implemented this "chase the rabbit" formula in the first place, they knew the AI was to slow and easy if everyone got a fair chance with a normal fixed start, so changing it to the rabbit thing would give the ilusion you were actually having a "race"...

It only serves to fustrate you even more tough, because it's just a hasty race against the clock to be able to catch the first bot that mostly drives away from all the other zombies whilst you are working your way through them...

Vastly improved AI is one of the biggest changes I'm looking for over GT5.

Around the time of GT5's launch, all I was interested in was what could be done in online mode. I hosted regular on-line championships with races lasting 2 hours or more. That's what mattered to me. I really wasn't interested in a 'career' or slogging my way through A-spec, earning credits and buying cars. I've since changed my tune. Sort of.

While I like GT5 and I still think it's the best racing game on the PS3, I quickly began to grow disillusioned with many things:
- the ridiculously overboosted slipstream effect that completely killed any serious racing
- Racing tires that offered super-hero levels of grip
- Tires that lasted only a fraction of the time they should
- Frustrating lag
...I could go on.

Eventually I gave up and moved on to PC sims. And after playing Rfactor, GTR, and finally iRacing, I was forced to admit, for somebody whose ambition with racing sims, was the most realistic, the most life-like experience possible, GT5 simply fell short in many ways. It was and remains the best sim-like racing experience available on the PS3. But compared to the PC world, it wasn't even close.

One of the biggest eye openers for me, was how it's possible to race in an iRacing lobby with 30~40 other players from thousands of kilometers away, and have an amazingly clear, smooth, and lag free experience. You're able to race side by side lap after lap, in ways that simply isn't possible in GT. It was a life time ago, but I originally came from an IT background, and I had spent an inordinate amount of time trying to understand the P2P connections in the PS3 world. I'd played various racing games, from Ferrari Challenge, Supercar Challenge, Grid, Dirt2, Superstars V8, etc, and all seemed to have their issues. After numerous calls to the help hotline, mostly talking to people who do nothing but run down a list, I was eventually able to get some candid, off the record comments. And I finally came to the conclusion that the real problem is not necessarily the game (be it GT5 or any PS3 racing game) but the PS3 itself and the limitations of the PSN. And that's something which isn't going to change between GT5 or GT6.

To be fair, you simply can't compare a PC based racing game that uses a pay to play model and makes use of dedicated servers to host races to the free online system of the PS3. And I understand that. But by simply unplugging my CAT5 cable from the PS3 and plugging it into the PC, I was able to have a remarkably different online experience. GT was a great game and had many fine qualities. But it's also a bit crippled by the hardware and the PSN itself. And I have no reason to believe that GT6 is going to change.

So that all said, aside from the necessary physics, tire model and slipstream improvements we've been promised, a completely revamped AI is what I'm hoping for. To be blunt, the AI in GT5 is awful. And you're right, the chase the chicken format of most online events, serves only to highlight just how poor it truly is. There are times when I just don't have the time to run a race in iRacing. And if you're out of practice, you get eaten alive. So here and there I come back to GT to do some offline hot lapping. But I've given up running off line races. It's ridiculous that you have to choose a car that's considerably slower than the competition, and maybe affix sport tires vs the AI on racing tires, just to get some feeling of a level playing field.

In short, I'll stick with iRacing for my online racing. But I'm hoping for some decent offline 'racing' in GT6.
 
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ItsHim:

Once again, there's a whole scale of grays between a frustrating over-developed AI and those annoying trains of lobotomyzed bots that GT got us used to over the years. It's not asking much imho, we're definitely not asking for miracles here, we'd just like -at least- some minor signs of improvement, which seems legit, given that nothing has changed so far in ten years ;)
 
Morgoth mentioned what is the absolute worst AI tendency. Braking on exit. At the bare minimum this irritating behavior needs to be eliminated. I used to run heavy damage on my 'Ring Arcades until I got so tired of rear ending a braking AI. Just as I'm accelerating on exit, BAM! Braking OUT of a turn, just no.

I can deal with dumbing down my tires as I'm of the opinion GT5's default tires have gotten too grippy. But needing to drive in an unnaturally defensive trailing manner has got to go.
 
I'd be intrigued to learn what people want from an "improved" AI. My guess: being chased by the AI while still being able to win the race easily. Before you answer take a second to look into your heart. Deep down, you know, you can't really stand losing. Especially if the AI pulls some "dirty" moves like defending the line or dive bombing you.

Please, take another second to question yourself: would you be able to seriously race by the standards you would like to see from the AI? I mean really? Giving room, show "appropriate" aggression without jeopardising the race?

Thirdly, do you race with damage set to "high"? Would you? Would you risk loosing a two hour race just because you pushed too hard on the final corner?

I'm of the opinion that what people want and what they say they want are two different things.

Within reason, the only "one size fits all" approach would be rubberband AI. Gives the impression of a close chase, but is essentially scripted. Do you really want that? Deep down, you know?

When credits apply, sure. There is no time for second place.

When racing for fun no. Yes I want to lose, Yes I want to come in last place because I drove flawlessly until the last corner. That's racing, and it's hard to find in GT.
 
Morgoth mentioned what is the absolute worst AI tendency. Braking on exit. At the bare minimum this irritating behavior needs to be eliminated. I used to run heavy damage on my 'Ring Arcades until I got so tired of rear ending a braking AI. Just as I'm accelerating on exit, BAM! Braking OUT of a turn, just no.

Yes, I would have to second this. Along with the fact that they brake too early going into the corner as well. And the fact that they sort of hang at the apex. And from time to time, they'll come off the throttle on a straight line for no apparent reason. It's madness.

In very general terms, the AI simply drive much too slowly. They don't drive like real racing drivers. They don't push. They barely know how to take corners. It's like racing a bunch of drivers who, at the most, have a few track days under their belt and they're being ridiculously over cautious. Unless you're using a car that's severely crippled vs the competition, racing the AI becomes an exercise in accident avoidance. You can't actually 'race' them like you can real people online. They are nothing more than mobile chicanes. Except, as others mentioned, for the one lone rabbit, who has a natural advantage because it starts so far out front and manages to pull a bigger lead while you try to drive around the cars in between while they somehow fall all over themselves.

I'm hardly the fastest guy out there but even at the highest setting in Arcade Mode I don't find it a challenge at all.
 
One thing that wish could fix, when the AI passes you at the end of a long straightaway, coming into a turn, it dives in front of you and then hits it's brakes.
 
ItsHim:

Once again, there's a whole scale of grays between a frustrating over-developed AI and those annoying trains of lobotomyzed bots that GT got us used to over the years. It's not asking much imho, we're definitely not asking for miracles here, we'd just like -at least- some minor signs of improvement, which seems legit, given that nothing has changed so far in ten years ;)

The only issue I have is that, constantly, the AI in GT5 is given less credit than it deserves in Arcade mode on a '10' setting. I'd be the first person to want a '15' or even '20' setting, too.

But I can't help but feel that only blaming the AI is not enough. Indeed, it might distract even from GT5 being a not very well balanced game in the first place.

I and many others had numerous outstanding races. I jumped through a lot of loops to coax GT to cough up a challenging grid. There are posts spanning 20 or more pages of records of those races and recommendations how to recreate them. This is getting tiresome and I feel the lack of a race creator is only because Sony was so desperate to force people going online the only means provided for "new" races are the seasonal events. And even the good ones, where a certain amount of race craft is needed, was eventually dropped because they were considered too hard for the masses. This is a guess, but a reasonable one I think.

Race craft is also: lapping to a schedule, navigating traffic.

For goodness sake, in real life we had this shambles at Abu Dhabi where gentleman drivers were forced to run predetermined laptimes and were penalized for being too quick. BoPs not only ensure a spectacle for spectators but also make sure everybody wins in a while. Because they are paying big money for it.

I'd be more than happy if, once, AI behaviour could be seen as one of many variables that make racing "fun". And I hope that PD reconsiders it approach to game balancing and indeed game play design. AI is one of the things to improve, but if it would be possible to have multi-class racing with 32 opponents, GT5's AI would be adequate. The PS3 can't do that obviously, but we would be discussing a whole different subject.

When credits apply, sure. There is no time for second place.

When racing for fun no. Yes I want to lose, Yes I want to come in last place because I drove flawlessly until the last corner. That's racing, and it's hard to find in GT.

You and me maybe, but would that be enough? Kaz is blamed for making a game he likes. And it still sells millions of copies. If we were to design a game, we could be more than happy to shift a few hundred copies. We would have the ultimate racing experience, to our tastes, but would have paid 50000 Euros a copy ;)
 
If the game will include "1000's" of custom parts. I'd like to see tunned/customized AI vehicles. They could be presets made by PD, including: Custom Paint, Rims, Aero and Custom transmission that matches track and car performance.

In GT5 all AI vehicles have a dull stock look. :ill:
 
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