Gran Turismo 6 coming to PS3

[aronh17]

GT5 Prologue was "early" build of GT5 - it looks better, loads better and runs better.



Maybe online runs better, but anyway it's very inconsistent in GT5 + huge tearing. For me - anything but rock-solid 60 fps are not allowed in GT.

Prologue was a stable game release that you pay money for, not a demo. To be honest, running 1280x720 with 4xMSAA is an incredible feat. Forza runs 1280x720 with 2xMSAA which allows them to spare performance and screen tearing. They do not have any higher rendering resolution than that for in-game. GT5 and Prologue have another resolution you can render in, which is 1280x1080 (not the native 1920x1080) with 2xMSAA. An amazing feat for a console game with it's graphical capabilities. I'm assuming to make it look better, in the demo they have it set to the max car poly count when driving on the one player demo. If they're using a new rendering engine that's effectively better on the PS3's hardware then the only acceptable excuse will be toned up visuals just for show.

 

[grashopper]

So what you're saying is the sounds are still awful correct? Literally no changes from GT5?

How did you get that from what you quoted? He was in a loud room and couldn't hear the game well enough to give a opinion.

 

[machschnel]

Early-build. E.a.r.l.y - B.u.i.l.d. of the game.

Surely GT6 isn't too far away from being put on disc, can't really see how 6 months from release is considered early. Unless of course we are in for the trademark Polyphony delays....

 

[Synwraith]

I thought that Maz was saying the one before the latest revision was the super buggy one, and his one was good..

Yes that's right, the pre-final build was quite buggy and some of the items on the menu were laid out differently, some buttons were different etc...in other words it was an obvious work in progress where every iteration was bringing something to the table. At no stage did I feel I was looking at the finished product. It was obviously a build being put together for use at the event and revised last minute to improve as much as possible. One thing more I remember is that the final build appeared to have better reflections and tarmac appearance than the pre-final build. There was much more of an accurate glare or reflection of sunlight off the track surface. I don't know if that had anything to do with pre-final build local track time being 12:00 and final build time being 13:00.

To give a weak analogy, another of my hobby interests is collecting vintage robot figures and new high-end collector-aimed robot figures. Quite often prototypes and test-shots of figures find their way onto the open market and obviously collectors go crazy for them as they get an 'advanced screening' of the product they're looking forward to owning. However the manufacturers hate that these protos and samples get out of the factories because they are never a completely accurate or worthy representation of the final consumer product that must tick all the boxes. They are manufactured for a specific purpose, to test a mould, to colour check, for a board meeting, to sample an iteration or evolution of a part etc or even to have a hand painted hard copy for display at an event or show. The GT6 demo to me needed to be appreciated as such, a build produced for the event that was being worked on up to the last minute that is not completely representative of where the final game's development is at this time. It also needed to be compact enough to be installed super fast on a lot of machines in a short space of time and be easily adjustable if necessary. Although I do accept that with the world's media there, what was being shown and run had to be of a certain quality - and I really felt it was.

I actually derived more enjoyment out of GT5P than GT5 over their respective life spans, but what I experienced of GT6 was very positive and I would love to have more time on the demo, just because thrashing that GT3 SLS around Silverstone was so awesome

I don't like how it smells...Frame-Rate problems (again) can be solved by sacrificing graphical quality, let alone absence of cockpit shadows and very aggressive LOD (4:46 on first X-bow video)

See above, I had no worries that the final game would have a frame rate as we saw in the demo. I'm confident that even the final build was better than the pre-final build in this respect.

Question for Maz:

Were any of the quick drivers coasting at the apex?

I'm not sure if I'm missing an in-joke or reference to something here, but just about every car I drove, I found it most effective to have done all the turning and braking/coasting before the apex and to already be on partial throttle by the apex and modulating it for optimal exit. The most satisfying corner was Stowe because the braking basically had to be done in the straight line approach, then lift off for turn in and coast, when the nose was pointing in you got on the gas and made a late apex with gradually reducing steering and full throttle. Just lovely and quite hard to nail perfectly.

I don't expect it to run worse than GT5.

Neither do I, I fully expect it to run smoothly and for this demo build to be accepted as just that.

So what you're saying is the sounds are still awful correct? Literally no changes from GT5?

Not at all, you need to take what I said at face value instead of reading into it too much. When I was testing the demo it was during a lot of the event set up. Upstairs in the main hall there was drilling, vacuuming, loads of construction and commotion during setup so the sound was regularly drowned out. I even missed a number of shifts as a result. Testing downstairs in the garages next to the track, there was also a lot of background noise so I couldn't always hear properly. There's a reason why at the Academy national finals when they use these pods, drivers are given headphones.

They know the PS3 now, development should be faster than GT5. It will be 3 years between GT5 and GT6 once it is released, sounds like a reasonable development time to me.

About the presentation, I felt it was just the rough outlines, there weren't much detail so I'm sure they've got more to share.

I've been out of the loop a little in terms of detailed tracking of GT6 progress, but I must admit I was genuinely surprised to hear them say GT6 was due for release in the next 6 to 7 months. I remember remarking to Jordan after the presentation that it was interesting to hear the admissions Kazunori was making about (or rather the tone) GT5's shortcomings, seemed they were aware of what they had to improve.

He did also say he'd love to say more but they wanted to keep things aside for E3 etc.

All the best
Maz

 

[VYPA-SQUAD_Ace]

Thanks for clearing some stuff up Maz.

One question though, for the GT Academy/GT6 Demo, do you think its gonna be the next build including the cars that was listed for the Silverstone demo with a couple more tracks; including a mode for GT Academy instead of the build used at Silverstone?

 

[TokoTurismo]

Surely GT6 isn't too far away from being put on disc, can't really see how 6 months from release is considered early. Unless of course we are in for the trademark Polyphony delays....

Well early yes, but not GT5 early. Basically a demo that PD can slightly tweak up a bit, such as fixing bugs and stuff that are minor.

So no delays are needed at all.

 

[Scaff]

I've been out of the loop a little in terms of detailed tracking of GT6 progress, but I must admit I was genuinely surprised to hear them say GT6 was due for release in the next 6 to 7 months. I remember remarking to Jordan after the presentation that it was interesting to hear the admissions Kazunori was making about (or rather the tone) GT5's shortcomings, seemed they were aware of what they had to improve.

He did also say he'd love to say more but they wanted to keep things aside for E3 etc.

All the best
Maz

A couple of quick questions if I may.

1. How is the FFB in comparion to GT5, Jordan mentioned getting a lot more feedback from the suspension, tyre grip levels and breakaway progression?
2. I've always found low-speed physics to be a bit iffy in GT5, how were they in GT6?
3. DId you run any FWD cars? Would like to see if we have lift-off oversteer in them
4. Did you try a standing start at all? If so do we now have some degree of torque steer off the line causing them to sidestep?

 

[arora]

I've always found low-speed physics to be a bit iffy in GT5, how were they in GT6?

This is something very important to some of us, probably part of the reason Rob asked what he did.

Maybe you can help me Scaff(as much as it might pain you) there was a kat on here that made a very insightful post about slow driving physics and I can't find it to save my soul. He seemed to know quite a bit about coding and such.

 

[dr_slump]

which is 1280x1080 (not the native 1920x1080) with 2xMSAA.

QAA and not MSAA

Only the 720 mode uses MSAA.

 

[Synwraith]

Thanks for clearing some stuff up Maz.

One question though, for the GT Academy/GT6 Demo, do you think its gonna be the next build including the cars that was listed for the Silverstone demo with a couple more tracks; including a mode for GT Academy instead of the build used at Silverstone?

If the July demo is going to be similar to the GT5 demo for the second GT Academy, then I expect it to just contain the Academy combo (wouldn't be surprised if it was multiple Nissan cars) - or something that you have to continually update via small downloads if they're going the multi-stage route like last time.

I would certainly expect it to be much-updated build, something they are happy for people to have on their home consoiles as a good representation of the product, compared to a build being updated up to the last second meant only to be experienced for a handful of hours at an event and then taken away and not left in anyone's hands.

I'd be very surprised if they included anything other than Nissans in the downloadable demo, especially if the sole purpose of that demo is to co-promote the Nissan GT Academy and drum up interest in the upcoming GT6. It's still quite well-remembered by the PR group handling GT Academy in the UK that the GT5 demo had 2 million downloads, and I had expressed my opinion to them that those massive numbers at the time had a lot to do with people wanting an opportunity to test out GT5 physics as opposed to being directly interested in the Academy (obviously they would have come to the same conclusion by themselves without my input).

I'd be surprised if they didn't include a Silverstone configuration in the demo, they often have wanted to put people on combos that were unfamiliar to all generally - be it Indy or the Eifel created tracks.

A couple of quick questions if I may.

1. How is the FFB in comparion to GT5, Jordan mentioned getting a lot more feedback from the suspension, tyre grip levels and breakaway progression?
2. I've always found low-speed physics to be a bit iffy in GT5, how were they in GT6?
3. DId you run any FWD cars? Would like to see if we have lift-off oversteer in them
4. Did you try a standing start at all? If so do we now have some degree of torque steer off the line causing them to sidestep?

Regarding FFB, I'd find this a little hard to answer because I'm personally quite sensitive to hardware changes, so running at these events on the Thrustmaster wheels is immediately different for me compared to the G27 I use at home. I drive almost exclusively with FFB set to 1 on my home setup, so I may not be the best judge of this parameter. Also, I almost always find it harder to catch slides and spins on the Thrustmaster wheels than the Logitech ones. Having said that, I think my initial difficulty in finding the limit was a lot more down to unfamiliarity with the International layout at Silverstone because both Alex and I were able to push boundaries in cars and corners quite well after the initial time spent on the demo.

I found the racing hard tyres a bit more challenging than before, and the lower grip comforts and sports I really enjoyed. The Dino and Countach were so obviously different with the Countach's understeer on entry quite different to the Dino's more slidy and delightful manageable oversteer. I could feel more grip sensations - that's not to say there was MORE grip - I could just sense more, but making some kind of sense of that and manipulating it would probably take me some getting used to.

What is it specifically that you found iffy about low speed physics in GT5? Maybe if you can elaborate a bit more on the specific issues I can give some input. From my own memory and experience, I didn't have any bad feelings about the low speed GT5 physics.

I didn't run any FWD cars sadly, just the Countach, Dino, SLS GT3, Nurb GTR and 370Z, also didn't try any standing starts. I just fell into the regrettable WRS-running habit of ghost-chasing, lap-time chasing and restarting after a poor 1st corner

All the best
Maz

 

[arora]

The low speed physics in gt5 are complete rubbish, do you even drive a car bro?

No offense Anne

 

[Scaff]

What is it specifically that you found iffy about low speed physics in GT5? Maybe if you can elaborate a bit more on the specific issues I can give some input. From my own memory and experience, I didn't have any bad feelings about the low speed GT5 physics.


All the best
Maz

Maz

Thanks for the above and to elaborate more.

At speeds under 35mph tyres in GT5 (particularly in higher torque cars) don't break away in anything close to a progressive manner, its as if the switch between grip and no-grip is digital rather than analog, no overlap seems to exist as you transition from one to the other.

Its best seen when trying to do a standing start launch (and I believe PD are aware of the issue - hence the number of rolling starts) the tyres don't spin up and catch anything like they should (and certainly don't sidestep the car). Its better when moving but at lower speed the same issues still seem to exist.

Having dug out GT5 and started playing around with it a lot more of late its one of those things that does seriously break the immersion for me, I've never driven a car that behaves like GT5 off the line or at lower speeds (and I've driven a lot).

Its an area that sim developers have always struggled with, but most have now resolved it (for the most part) but PD still seem to be working on getting it right.

 

[eran0004]

What is it specifically that you found iffy about low speed physics in GT5? Maybe if you can elaborate a bit more on the specific issues I can give some input. From my own memory and experience, I didn't have any bad feelings about the low speed GT5 physics.

One thing that's awkward with low speed (like, close to 0) physics in GT5 is that the car slides a lot. Sometimes when reversing slowly the car moves more sideways than backwards. Not a big deal, but it would be interesting to see how the new tyre model deals with that.

 

[Adam41]

Good to hear from you Maz. Thanks for the feedback. 👍

 

[VYPA-SQUAD_Ace]

Maz, thank you for your input and answers to these questions.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Hi Maz

I do feel that the demo we got to play is what we will get in July as it is meant to be GT6 Demo and also have GT Academy event. It was quite telling it was still in early stages so maybe that is why it is coming out in July and not earlier.

I am surprised you and Alex struggled to get to grips with it early on, I didn't do many laps but I felt at one with it quite quickly. T500RS seems quite brutal though coming from G27 as well. I probably did less than 6 laps on total with wheel, 2 of which on GP track so made sure to try and get comfortable with oversteer as in Academy finals, we only got one lap to get used to the wheel which isn't enough to be confident to push.

My final go on GT6 was with the SLS GT3, I was trying to also get oversteer on that and also tried drifting it. That car had loads of grip, was surprised to beat whatever best time was set at time as I was throwing car left and right on straights.

Here is video of my second lap around Silverstone GP circuit using wheel, I wanted to like find out what settings were being used on this pod. I don't know if you can remember settings, that is if you helped set it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBH3E7emNQ0

I should have probably gone over to Nissan area more, didn't know you had a bit of competition going on there. I suppose at least got to spend time with a Polyphony Digital employee for most of the day and also chief engineer of GT86, not often you get chance like that. Quite secretive as expected though (PDI Employee) although I heard something interesting about video trailer they showed. I don't know if you aware of it or if I should say about it though.

 

[RcWr]

although I heard something interesting about video trailer they showed. I don't know if you aware of it or if I should say about it though.

Oh, that's just brutal.

 

[screp RC]

Hi Maz

although I heard something interesting about video trailer they showed. I don't know if you aware of it or if I should say about it though.

Well, teasing ain´t the way my friend, now you will have to tell or else people will go crazy on you here on GTPlanet

 

[Grand Prix]

I'm not sure if I'm missing an in-joke or reference to something here, but just about every car I drove, I found it most effective to have done all the turning and braking/coasting before the apex and to already be on partial throttle by the apex and modulating it for optimal exit. The most satisfying corner was Stowe because the braking basically had to be done in the straight line approach, then lift off for turn in and coast, when the nose was pointing in you got on the gas and made a late apex with gradually reducing steering and full throttle. Just lovely and quite hard to nail perfectly.

It's a bit of a joke yeah, Dion says in GT5 the fastest way is to enter like a boss and coast. Wondering if the same is still true in GT6. Your last couple sentences here confirm that it is, in some cases at least.

Would be interesting to see if they improve the slow speed physics at all. Try parking a car on the Daytona banking in GT5 and see what happens.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Oh, that's just brutal.

Well, teasing ain´t the way my friend, now you will have to tell or else people will go ceazy on you here on GTPlanet

Yep, I don't know much about it though. I will just say for now that they cut some footage from trailer of two car manufacturers last minute, I know at least one of them still features in trailer briefly somewhat though so don't know reason why. That is as interesting as it gets, maybe will see some of that footage in another game event and something they are saving.

 

[Scaff]

Yep, I don't know much about it though. I will just say for now that they cut some footage from trailer of two car manufacturers last minute, I know at least one of them still features in trailer briefly somewhat though so don't know reason why. That is as interesting as it gets, maybe will see some of that footage in another game event and something they are saving.

Did they happen to mention who the two were?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Did they happen to mention who the two were?

They did, and looking back at trailer, it looks like both manufacturers are shown briefly (Edit: I am not sure on one of them now). I don't know if I should mention which ones they were though unless Maz thinks it is OK as I don't want to get in trouble about it if it is meant to be secret or not but as I understood, anything about GT6 was under embargo until 5PM that day.

 

[screp RC]

@ Saidur,

Without wanting to push to much (other guys will do it for sure) are those manufacturers all new to the franchise or just two manufacturers that simply didn´t appear on the trailer?

 

[gtracedriver1]

If the July demo is going to be similar to the GT5 demo for the second GT Academy, then I expect it to just contain the Academy combo (wouldn't be surprised if it was multiple Nissan cars) - or something that you have to continually update via small downloads if they're going the multi-stage route like last time.

I would certainly expect it to be much-updated build, something they are happy for people to have on their home consoiles as a good representation of the product, compared to a build being updated up to the last second meant only to be experienced for a handful of hours at an event and then taken away and not left in anyone's hands.

I'd be very surprised if they included anything other than Nissans in the downloadable demo, especially if the sole purpose of that demo is to co-promote the Nissan GT Academy and drum up interest in the upcoming GT6. It's still quite well-remembered by the PR group handling GT Academy in the UK that the GT5 demo had 2 million downloads, and I had expressed my opinion to them that those massive numbers at the time had a lot to do with people wanting an opportunity to test out GT5 physics as opposed to being directly interested in the Academy (obviously they would have come to the same conclusion by themselves without my input).

I'd be surprised if they didn't include a Silverstone configuration in the demo, they often have wanted to put people on combos that were unfamiliar to all generally - be it Indy or the Eifel created tracks.



Regarding FFB, I'd find this a little hard to answer because I'm personally quite sensitive to hardware changes, so running at these events on the Thrustmaster wheels is immediately different for me compared to the G27 I use at home. I drive almost exclusively with FFB set to 1 on my home setup, so I may not be the best judge of this parameter. Also, I almost always find it harder to catch slides and spins on the Thrustmaster wheels than the Logitech ones. Having said that, I think my initial difficulty in finding the limit was a lot more down to unfamiliarity with the International layout at Silverstone because both Alex and I were able to push boundaries in cars and corners quite well after the initial time spent on the demo.

I found the racing hard tyres a bit more challenging than before, and the lower grip comforts and sports I really enjoyed. The Dino and Countach were so obviously different with the Countach's understeer on entry quite different to the Dino's more slidy and delightful manageable oversteer. I could feel more grip sensations - that's not to say there was MORE grip - I could just sense more, but making some kind of sense of that and manipulating it would probably take me some getting used to.

What is it specifically that you found iffy about low speed physics in GT5? Maybe if you can elaborate a bit more on the specific issues I can give some input. From my own memory and experience, I didn't have any bad feelings about the low speed GT5 physics.

I didn't run any FWD cars sadly, just the Countach, Dino, SLS GT3, Nurb GTR and 370Z, also didn't try any standing starts. I just fell into the regrettable WRS-running habit of ghost-chasing, lap-time chasing and restarting after a poor 1st corner

All the best
Maz

Thanks for the feedback 👍

The low speed physics in gt5 are complete rubbish, do you even drive a car bro?

No offense Anne

I though most people drive in low speed in real life too. No ?

No one drive the same speed in real life as in racing games

PS: stupid question = stupid answer

 

[gt5 brad gt5]

They did, and looking back at trailer, it looks like both manufacturers are shown briefly. I don't know if I should mention which ones they were though unless Maz thinks it is OK as I don't want to get in trouble about it if it is meant to be secret or not but as I understood, anything about GT6 was under embargo until 5PM that day.

Just a quick guess for one of the manufacturers: Aston Martin?💡

Only appears once at the start.

If you can't answer due to confidentiality thats fine buddy I was just taking a guess.

 

[arora]

I'm not sure I understand, do you have a question or a point to make?

Of course we drive slow in real life, that is the point. GT doesn't do slow driving physics right at all.

If you are simply posting to defend Maz, then you should step off, I've been friends with him forever and I'm pretty sure he knows I was not being a dick to him. If you want to be a blind pd fanboi so be it.

 

[Mush_nz]

I'm backing Saidur on this one. Watch this:



It has a lot more footage that looks like it was cut from the trailer we got.

 

[Grand Prix]

Hairpins in particular are pretty slow no matter what car you are driving, unless it is a fantasy Red Bull car. So slow speed physics do matter quite a bit. Also in standing starts, tight chicanes, etc.

 

[sems4arsenal]

C'mon agent Saidur

 

[Scaff]

I though most people drive in low speed in real life too. No ?

No one drive the same speed in real life as in racing games

PS: stupid question = stupid answer

What an odd thing to say. I've driven at racing game speeds in real life on many occasions.

Hairpins in particular are pretty slow no matter what car you are driving, unless it is a fantasy Red Bull car. So slow speed physics do matter quite a bit. Also in standing starts, tight chicanes, etc.

This.

As this map of Silverstone shows, low speeds are come across on tracks quite a bit (and most of the cars in GT are not F1 cars capable of these speeds - which are in km/h).