Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)
- Thread starter TorqueHappenS08
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Maybe racing softs have so much grip that it could happen, it seems to tip at just over 150mph with half brake force applied where you would think it would just over the crest. is the suspension stock?
Anyway does anyone notice the physics changing after the 1.02 patch, ive recently restarted the game and cant seem to get the stock honda fits back to step out on turn 1 of willow springs at top end of 4th gear like i could when the game came out. i may be imagining things but it seems like i can feel as many things through the wheel anymore...hope its just me
nasanu
(Banned)
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- Australia
- nasanu
- nasanu
Take a look at the patch notes for any PC sim. You will see that they always do these sort of tweaks car by car. That is a large part of the reason why people think PC sims are so realistic, they only have a couple of cars in the games and they patch the physics car by car. PD can not do this with a thousand cars.
- 926
- machschnel
- 3,070
- Norway
I've browsed through this thread to see if anyone has mentioned the aero bug on SSRX and found nothing.
I let my nephew drive the C7 Stingray there (he's 3 and doesn't know how to steer yet).
The car steadily accelerated to about 370 km/h (230'ish mph).
When I ran the "Like the wind" race there with the Huayara it still got a massive tow from the other cars.
So draft is an extra force, not a reduction in drag?
I also tested the C7 on La Sarthe 2009 no chicanes and got up to about 340 km/h, so there's drag there.
I let my nephew drive the C7 Stingray there (he's 3 and doesn't know how to steer yet).
The car steadily accelerated to about 370 km/h (230'ish mph).
When I ran the "Like the wind" race there with the Huayara it still got a massive tow from the other cars.
So draft is an extra force, not a reduction in drag?
I also tested the C7 on La Sarthe 2009 no chicanes and got up to about 340 km/h, so there's drag there.
- 2,979
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
So finally picked up GT6, first thoughts, The physics engine absolutely demolishes GT5, well done PD.
- 111
Hehe, they definitely did the MiTo wrongly. It may certainly having somethng to do with extrapolating the dynamic mass distribution from less extreme situations (less braking at a lower speed) and in the process the error margin has been increased in the wrong direction.
Luckily the issue is not present on all cars, thus making it not a fundamental mistake in the physics engine, but just an individual mistake of the combination of the physics engine and the parameters of the particular car.
I'm going to try it on my Fiat 500 now with a heavy front-biased static weight distribution...looks fun.
Luckily the issue is not present on all cars, thus making it not a fundamental mistake in the physics engine, but just an individual mistake of the combination of the physics engine and the parameters of the particular car.
I'm going to try it on my Fiat 500 now with a heavy front-biased static weight distribution...looks fun.
- 6,793
- United Kingdom
I just did the Rainmasters event (International A) in Pagani Huayra 15th Anniversary version, stock apart from putting some heavy wet tyres on, used no driving aids. Anyway I found it quite awesome in feeling, so progressive, quite a lot of fun.
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
Don't waste Cr next time. Normal tires work just as well if not better in the rain.
I don't think they're as good in the rain as GT5 but still way better than they should be.
Oh flipped the Amuse GT1 on Tokyo r246 today...still trying to figure out how that was possible.
- 97
- Kansas
- honeydear
I think the tire physics are off to. British light weights, every time I get some tire squeal the car spins like its on ice. I don't think sports tires are THAT bad.
- 1,742
- Olympia, WA
- GTP_BrokenVow, zmikedz
I used a stock Elise 111R for British lightweights and it was a beautiful experience. Using a ds3 I didn't spin once. I love the way you can steer the cars with throttle.
Anyone note the handling of the GT-R to be significantly changed? In GT5 it was rather unrealistic in that lifting off at the limit caused absolutely nothing to happen in corners, and trailbraking felt oddly constrained despite only using ABS 1, and steering angle seemed to have zero effect on torque distribution when it greater steering angles should dramatically decrease the amount of torque sent to the front wheels.
- 211
- Va
- 47
- United States
- 2,979
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
Good thing they fixed MR handling, much better now.
- 7,527
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
They can certainly fix the abominations in the game this way though (Like GT5 Speed 12, or the Viper ACR). In fact they have, In the GT5 section there is a list of cars with modeling issues, some of which have been fixed over time.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/master-list-of-cars-with-incorrect-specifications.193920/
I don't own any PC sims, but are these patches to car physics or car modeling. It might be the latter, which is simply changing the stats of the cars leaving the physics engine untouched.
In any case I disagree that the number of cars in GT is a problem. The majority of issues I've seen have come from a not-that-good physics engine.
Note: I haven't played GT6 much
I've been lingering around here for quite some time now.
A few words of introduction. I've been racing on amateur level since 2006, mainly in rally sprint type events, I've also done some track days and been to a couple of advanced driving schools. I can safely say I'm addicted to motorsport and cars, much to the detriment of my quality of life. I'm a broke loser with delusions of becoming a competition driver one day. Flat Out, Flat Broke. Or die trying.
As for the virtual world, I think I played pretty much every racing sim since Grand Prix Legends. Problem is I suck at games
Anyway...
I have to say I am very dissapointed with GT6. There are some big improvements, and kudos to PD for that. But the 'Fox Chase' race format and AI pretty much stopping in the corners are just painful.
Aaaaand...
Let's just say my opinion is that suspension/handling tuning is completely broken at the moment. Do you know what a 'sway bar sweep' is? It's setting the sway bars at their extremes (0 front, max rear and vice versa) and running some test laps/stages. I can feel NO effect of sway bar sweep in GT6. This is just an example. I see no effect of any tuning apart from LSD, ballasting and camber. Well, even with rear camber at 10 the Delta refuses to rotate into the corner, it just sort of twitches now and then.
Regarding the physics itself what really winds me up is this assumption that WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION completely and finally dictates the way a car handles. NO, IT DOES NOT. Nowhere is this more evident than in FWD cars. Trust me, I've owned and raced a couple of Frogs (little French hatchbacks). ALL of them are extremely tail happy if you enter a corner off throttle and all of them can be throttle steered through corners ad infinitum to your heart's desire. Not in GT6 (or 5). Come on Kaz, even a Peugeot 206 HDi (with a 2.0 turbo diesel lump under the bonnet and 0,5 degrees of POSITIVE camber at the front) WILL happily rotate into a corner. The front end will wash out at corner exit, sure: THIS is caused by weight distribution, yes. For me the only way to replicate real-ish handling of FWD cars is to put two compounds harder tires at the back, but even then it's not perfect. As things are now, even some legendary cars like the RS4 (understeer even when kicking the throttle around hairpins, SERIOUSLY???) are simply not worth driving in GT6: all you need to do is to look at the weight distribution on the tuning screen and *bang* you already know how it will drive.
A few words of introduction. I've been racing on amateur level since 2006, mainly in rally sprint type events, I've also done some track days and been to a couple of advanced driving schools. I can safely say I'm addicted to motorsport and cars, much to the detriment of my quality of life. I'm a broke loser with delusions of becoming a competition driver one day. Flat Out, Flat Broke. Or die trying.
As for the virtual world, I think I played pretty much every racing sim since Grand Prix Legends. Problem is I suck at games
Anyway...I have to say I am very dissapointed with GT6. There are some big improvements, and kudos to PD for that. But the 'Fox Chase' race format and AI pretty much stopping in the corners are just painful.
Aaaaand...
Let's just say my opinion is that suspension/handling tuning is completely broken at the moment. Do you know what a 'sway bar sweep' is? It's setting the sway bars at their extremes (0 front, max rear and vice versa) and running some test laps/stages. I can feel NO effect of sway bar sweep in GT6. This is just an example. I see no effect of any tuning apart from LSD, ballasting and camber. Well, even with rear camber at 10 the Delta refuses to rotate into the corner, it just sort of twitches now and then.
Regarding the physics itself what really winds me up is this assumption that WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION completely and finally dictates the way a car handles. NO, IT DOES NOT. Nowhere is this more evident than in FWD cars. Trust me, I've owned and raced a couple of Frogs (little French hatchbacks). ALL of them are extremely tail happy if you enter a corner off throttle and all of them can be throttle steered through corners ad infinitum to your heart's desire. Not in GT6 (or 5). Come on Kaz, even a Peugeot 206 HDi (with a 2.0 turbo diesel lump under the bonnet and 0,5 degrees of POSITIVE camber at the front) WILL happily rotate into a corner. The front end will wash out at corner exit, sure: THIS is caused by weight distribution, yes. For me the only way to replicate real-ish handling of FWD cars is to put two compounds harder tires at the back, but even then it's not perfect. As things are now, even some legendary cars like the RS4 (understeer even when kicking the throttle around hairpins, SERIOUSLY???) are simply not worth driving in GT6: all you need to do is to look at the weight distribution on the tuning screen and *bang* you already know how it will drive.
nasanu
(Banned)
- 1,429
- Australia
- nasanu
- nasanu
No car physics. iRacing once even mentioned adding grip at high speed and taking grip away at low speed for the MX5. All sims are a patchwork of code. There is no one single theory of everything for car physics, devs either pick one of two common ways of modeling a car then hack and patch many specific cases where these models break down. Its why you see cars in GT games slide when on a steep hill, because all of the models break at low speeds, PD does not seems to patch that though. It is also why most physics bugs are nothing to worry about. Most of them actually don't affect normal driving, those bits of code are simply not running most of the time.
GT6 has its bugs, I have seen Formula cars in Assetto Corsa bounce like bunnies and cars spin in the air like in a vacuum (which makes me very much suspect assetto corsa is not modeling the air at all...
). iRacing RUFs flip if you turn them too fast with tight suspension at low speeds... Search 'physics fail game name' on youtube, all games have bugs with their physics. While most PC sims have only a few thousand players at best finding such bugs in only a few cars, GT games have millions of players and a thousand cars, naturally more will be found.
nasanu
(Banned)
- 1,429
- Australia
- nasanu
- nasanu
I've been lingering around here for quite some time now.
A few words of introduction. I've been racing on amateur level since 2006, mainly in rally sprint type events, I've also done some track days and been to a couple of advanced driving schools. I can safely say I'm addicted to motorsport and cars, much to the detriment of my quality of life. I'm a broke loser with delusions of becoming a competition driver one day. Flat Out, Flat Broke. Or die trying.
As for the virtual world, I think I played pretty much every racing sim since Grand Prix Legends. Problem is I suck at games
I have to say I am very dissapointed with GT6. There are some big improvements, and kudos to PD for that. But the 'Fox Chase' race format and AI pretty much stopping in the corners are just painful.
Aaaaand...
Let's just say my opinion is that suspension/handling tuning is completely broken at the moment. Do you know what a 'sway bar sweep' is? It's setting the sway bars at their extremes (0 front, max rear and vice versa) and running some test laps/stages. I can feel NO effect of sway bar sweep in GT6. This is just an example. I see no effect of any tuning apart from LSD, ballasting and camber. Well, even with rear camber at 10 the Delta refuses to rotate into the corner, it just sort of twitches now and then.
Regarding the physics itself what really winds me up is this assumption that WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION completely and finally dictates the way a car handles. NO, IT DOES NOT. Nowhere is this more evident than in FWD cars. Trust me, I've owned and raced a couple of Frogs (little French hatchbacks). ALL of them are extremely tail happy if you enter a corner off throttle and all of them can be throttle steered through corners ad infinitum to your heart's desire. Not in GT6 (or 5). Come on Kaz, even a Peugeot 206 HDi (with a 2.0 turbo diesel lump under the bonnet and 0,5 degrees of POSITIVE camber at the front) WILL happily rotate into a corner. The front end will wash out at corner exit, sure: THIS is caused by weight distribution, yes. For me the only way to replicate real-ish handling of FWD cars is to put two compounds harder tires at the back, but even then it's not perfect. As things are now, even some legendary cars like the RS4 (understeer even when kicking the throttle around hairpins, SERIOUSLY???) are simply not worth driving in GT6: all you need to do is to look at the weight distribution on the tuning screen and *bang* you already know how it will drive.
If you cant feel the difference in suspensions settings then... Well I don't know what would help you. It is night and day between 0 and 6 on the anti-roll bars or softest and lowest suspension settings. Now I believe PD needs to address settings, I don't think they all work like they should (personally I wish they would get rid of tuning entirely) but to say they don't make a difference is absurd.
Oh and about the FF cars, most of the recent FF cars just understeer. Even some of the newer hot hatches. I was watching a Fifth Gear epp a while back and I can't remember if it was a new Golf GTi or a new Renault but even Tiff Needell could not get the back out without the handbrake.
