Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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Techlet
But that success doesn't come from your effort to overcome a challenge. You're just handed "success" after getting lucky once. And no, there's no pity system with the roulette wheel. If there were it would have been discovered after the bonanza.

That's a problem of PD's own making. I don't recall players begging for MTX to be implemented in a AAA racing game.

Perhaps progression shouldn't be limited to any one specific path. It's a game, give players multiple options.

For those who want a challenge, add some challenges or seasonal events centered around certain manufacturers or car types that reward tickets.

For those who just want to build up their garage, add tickets as Collector Level rewards.

For the creative players, reward reaching X number of likes on shared designs/photos with tickets.

And those who want to feed their gambling addiction can always spin the old roulette wheel for tickets.

There's any number of ways to do that's not just pure luck.
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Skill isn’t a necessity to have Fun, there can be a mix of different ways in one game to result in fun.
But if you want, you can see patience as the required skill for this kind of mechanic.
 
GlamFM
Baseless assumption. What good are posts like this for?
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There's usually a post on the PlayStation Blog with the main update features, this hasn't been put up yet on that page so I'd at least wait for that to see if it is only VR being added.
It is normally posted the day before the update
 
synon
The prizes also aren't truly random, as has been said before they're predetermined most likely from a list, and any large variation can easily be avoided when it's constructed
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You don't have GT7... You wouldn't be saying lies like these if you had.
synon
You haven't really given a reason why getting prizes in a random order is such terrible game design. Previous games had random prizes too IIRC.
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Ignorance is bliss I guess.

I'm going to assume "gambling" (or any sort of luck based mechanic) is what you are referring to. In which case, I don't disagree with you, because that can be implemented well. Many games have it after all.

But we are talking about GT7's case, I mean, isn't this damn forum and thread about GT7 in the first place?

In the case you are actually telling us that GT7's specific implementation is not bad, I suggest you do a little search on how the roulette tickets work, and also on what their odds are.
Details are important... If you don't know them, then don't blindly try to argue with people who know about it, in a way to defend something you are biased to.

First of all, before I give you any sort of knowledge, I would like you to tell me, why is this specific implementation not bad.
 
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Will Once
So now it's "effort" that's required, eh?
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Yes? It's a racing game. A "real driving simulator". Not a "being driven simulator". You don't start a race and watch a roulette spin to determine your result. You have to actually drive.

At the base level, effort = reward. All the systems in the game should reflect that in some way. A "special" car, therefore, should be something for the player to work towards. A daily RNG spin is not something that players can work towards. It's not engaging. It just...happens.
Will Once
The effort that's required to earn the purchase price of each car. Isn't that effort enough?
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For most, it is. So, why bother with the invite system in the first place? Just let players earn the credits and buy the cars.
Will Once
You want multiple options? In the same way that there are multiple ways of getting a 20 million car? Or getting most used cars? Or most new cars?
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There's multiple ways of getting 20 million credits to buy a car. Cars can also be awarded by completing the menu books and missions and license tests. There was one instance where you could get one of the invite cars by completing a championship. That was good. They should do more of that.
Will Once
the invitations work just fine.
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All that really needs to be said:
Famine
To repeat, the invitation system as it stands is bollocks.
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synon
Presumably in that case some people didn't manage to get cars they wanted through lack of time or lack of skill. That doesn't seem like great game design either.
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It's much better than pure luck as you have something to work towards yourself that is attainable yourself. With a completely luck based system with very low odds you aren't working towards a specific goal, you are just waiting on blind luck favouring you.

It's terrible design that one player can win a La Ferrari on day 1 and someone else might never win one or get an invitation to buy one (assuming that they bought the game after the invitations bonanza).

I understand there will be people like yourself and @VinylRichie who like the system, but at the same time the polls and overall feedback suggest that you guys are the outliers here. That's not to say you aren't entitled to it, but you have to also understand it's not a popular mechanic where feedback has been measured.
synon
You haven't really given a reason why getting prizes in a random order is such terrible game design. Previous games had random prizes too IIRC.
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I have quite clearly given a reason, it's based on blind luck, not skill or progress in the game. It's not something you can objectively work towards, it's just something that at some point might happen or it might not. The random prizes in previous games were nothnig like the way they are in GT7. At worst you'd have to complete an event to have a 25% chance of winning a specific car and you could do that event as many times as you wanted in a day. But even then, most prizes in GT history were 50% odds or better for things you could repeat at your leisure.

As we have it, it's terrible odds on a once per day ticket you can win with almost no effort. There are literally people who just whiz along SSRX get the daily ticket, redeem it and log off. That's on them, sure, but that's what the mechanic boils down to, it's terrible. A few people may enjoy it, perfectly fine for them, but just some people enjoy it doesn't make it a great system. I enjoy my mothers cooking, but accoridng to my wife, she can't cook :eek:. We haven't told my mother yet and it's been 13 years.
 
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So I just turned the game on and the first screen I got was the PlayStation logo when we get a new update. But nothing has been downloaded/updated. Very weird.
 
Whookid570
So I just turned the game on and the first screen I got was the PlayStation logo when we get a new update. But nothing has been downloaded/updated. Very weird.
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Update comes on the 21st, so next week.
 
Whookid570
So I just turned the game on and the first screen I got was the PlayStation logo when we get a new update. But nothing has been downloaded/updated. Very weird.
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Yeah it's next week mate:lol:
 
Grimm6Jack
You don't have GT7... You wouldn't be saying lies like these if you had.
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Eh? What did I say that was incorrect? I understood it's generally accepted they are pre-determined.
05XR8
Yeah, but this game is different. There’s a thread that shows you’d never, as of now, acquire all parts by the end this game’s shelf life or ever, in our own lives. Who does that?:lol:
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The calculation I saw that said it would take centuries to get all parts is completely incorrect, though it would take a fair amount of time lol, but I was referring to the invitations specifically.
Dave A
It's much better than pure luck as you have something to work towards yourself that is attainable yourself. With a completely luck based system with very low odds you aren't working towards a specific goal, you are just waiting on blind luck favouring you.

It's terrible design that one player can win a La Ferrari on day 1 and someone else might never win one or get an invitation to buy one (assuming that they bought the game after the invitations bonanza).
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But players may not attain a goal that requires a certain level of skill either, players now at least are on a level playing field everyone has the same chances
 
Techlet
Yes? It's a racing game. A "real driving simulator". Not a "being driven simulator". You don't start a race and watch a roulette spin to determine your result. You have to actually drive.

At the base level, effort = reward. All the systems in the game should reflect that in some way. A "special" car, therefore, should be something for the player to work towards. A daily RNG spin is not something that players can work towards. It's not engaging. It just...happens.

For most, it is. So, why bother with the invite system in the first place? Just let players earn the credits and buy the cars.

There's multiple ways of getting 20 million credits to buy a car. Cars can also be awarded by completing the menu books and missions and license tests. There was one instance where you could get one of the invite cars by completing a championship. That was good. They should do more of that.

All that really needs to be said:
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We are going to have to agree to disagree. We both bought a console game. That console game has a feature which you don't like and which I don't mind. We can both argue until we are blue in the face but that isn't going to change anything. I am not going to persuade you to change your mind and you won't get me to change mine.

All that really needs to be said ... someone else's opinion?

Let's agree to disagree.
 
synon
But players may not attain a goal that requires a certain level of skill either, players now at least are on a level playing field everyone has the same chances
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Sure you could argue it's a fair system as it levels the field, but that doesn't by default make it a good one IMO. Is the best system a game could use one that simply has no challenge because then every player can complete it, or a game that is already completed when you first start it up? Would a game with no challenge not be boring for most people?

Now there are people who like that type of game, where there are no goals and nothing to unlock, and you just choose what bits of content in the game you want to play around with. And that's fair, it's a different approach to Gran Turismo and Forza but it's one that works for a lot of people. But then there are people who enjoy a game where they can feel like they are making progress through it, it's like a journey of going from the bottom to the top. There are different pro's and cons to each approach.

But while leveling the field for all players might be true, you are at the same time taking progress out of the players hands. Therefore, to me, it becomes the worst of both worlds. For one, the content is locked away from you and secondly there's nothing specifically you can do to unlock it, just have to wait for lady luck to ping and gift you what you specifically want.

Is it poor design that some of the Missions are tough? Or some of the Circuit Experiences are hard? Afterall, they are important parts of the game. You can make something too difficult, but locking content behind progress with the right balance of challenge (or where players can select the level of challenge that they want) is considerably better than a 1/2000 chace the prize you really want will drop, and the odds on some of the prizes are considerably lower than that.
 
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Dave A
But while leveling the field for all players might be true, you are at the same time taking progress out of the players hands. Therefore, to me, it becomes the worst of both worlds. For one, the content is locked away from you and secondly there's nothing pecifically you can do to unlock it, just have to wait for lady luck to ping and gift you what you specifically want.
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Exactly right.

Nevermind the fact that the roulette wheel is not a level playing field. It's biased against players who can't drum up the motivation to engage with the game on a daily basis.
 
Techlet
Nevermind the fact that the roulette wheel is not a level playing field. It's biased against players who can't drum up the motivation to engage with the game on a daily basis.
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Output is better if i do it every day? Really?
 
KAlex122
Output is better if i do it every day? Really?
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The only way to get roulette tickets after you're done with the Cafe Menu is through the daily mileage rewards. So, technically, yes. Your will have a 100% better chance of getting a ticket if you play every day.
 
Ok. So no, it's not biased. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Techlet
It's biased against players who can't drum up the motivation to engage with the game on a daily basis.
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People who want to proof that something is silly, by saying silly things.

Sorry don’t want to be rude here against you, but this is an argument you could bring against any game if you want and is also very subjective.
For me the daily mileage and the prices I could earn trough it, are a source of motivation for example.
So it can speak to people or it don’t, but that doesn’t mean it’s biased. Again this could be said about any game mechanic were at least one person isn’t motivated enough to take the challenges demanded to achieve specific rewards.
 
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VinylRichie
People who want to proof that something is silly, by saying silly things.

Sorry don’t want to be rude here against you, but this is an argument you could bring against any game if you want and is also very subjective.
For me the daily mileage and the prices ces I could ein trough it, are a source of motivation for example.
So it can speak to people or it don’t, but that doesn’t mean it’s biased. Again this could be said about any game mechanic we’re at least one person isn’t motivated enough to take the challenges demanded to achieve specific rewards.
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If the daily roulette motivates you to play then IMO that suggests the game isn't good enough.

You shouldn't need that to feel motivated to play GT7 today, yet that's how a lot of GT7 players are, they log in, complete their daily marathon, claim the prize, turn the game off. That is not indicative of a good game, it's a mechanic designed not for the betterment of players enjoyment, but to make people feel like they are missing out if they don't log in every day.

It would be less of an issue if the prizes for the daily marathon were all things you could obtain elsewhere in the game, but the real issue is locking content behind this lottery mechanic and with some shockingly low odds as well.
 
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Dave A
If the daily roulette motivates you to play then IMO that suggests the game isn't good enough.

You shouldn't need that to feel motivated to play GT7 today, yet that's how a lot of GT7 players are, they log in, complete their daily marathon, claim the prize, turn the game off. That is not indicative of a good game, it's a mechanic designed not for the betterment of players enjoyment, but to make people feel like they are missing out if they don't log in every day.

It would be less of an issue if the prizes for the daily marathon were all things you could obtain elsewhere in the game, but the real issue is locking content behind this lottery mechanic and with some shockingly low odds as well.
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So you want to suggest that I shouldn’t have fun doing that?
 
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