Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[LeGeNd-1]

Some people will complain no matter what about GT. The updates lean hard on the AC type of physics with more understeer. GT still feels better since the balance of the car can be shifted a lot better with steering input and throttle and can still induce oversteer when rebalancing the momentum. AC suffers from the cars not being snappy enough on throttle. Progression to the loss of traction is too slow and there is an absence of quick steering input to correct the cars. I messed around with a lot of mods. The GR86 feels great in AC, but drives better in GT. However, there is too much low quality content and vanilla car physics are meh.

Just for context, I've been playing GT since 1998 when the first game came out. I only played AC since 2016. I would be the first person to congratulate PD when they get physics/FFB right. But right now, it's still far off AC/ACC, and even vintage sims like LFS (and RBR if you count rallying). Even rFactor with RealFeel FFB still feels better to drive than GT, and that base game came out in 2004.

Everything you said feels backward to me. Current GT physics has too much understeer compared to AC. I can drive a car with the throttle in AC (old cars on bias ply tyres especially). I just drove the 250 GTO in GT yesterday and there's no feeling of tyre squidge, the suspension feels tied down, no body roll, 4 wheel drifting feels very unnatural. You lose the back end coming off the brakes (which IRL would transfer more weight to the rear and reduce oversteer). It's backwards and unnatural. Drive the same car in AC and everything just flows as it should.

Drifting in GT also feels unnatural. It's hard to drift anything other than CH tyres. AC meanwhile is basically a drifting game if you look at online lobbies.

I have like 2600 cars in AC atm. Yes there are loads of crappy built mods, but the real good ones and the base Kunos cars are way beyond anything in GT in terms of feel. I mean if you look at the Bugatti Chiron in GT7, it has front downforce only and zero rear downforce. This is a car that's supposed to be ultra stable at high speeds and the high speed balance is opposite what it should be. They can't even get something like that right and you want me to believe PD makes good physics/FFB?

I think this update improved overall a physics that was better than AC one even before this last patch.
The truth Is that there are a lot people with "elitist" attitude. They invested so much ego and money too,in something that have to be better than this "arcade game for masses" ,that now they can't admit that gt7's physics Is good.

I'm playing AC on a laptop from 2014 with Logitech G25 just so you know. I spent more money on my PS4 Pro, TV, T-GT, GT7 25th Edition and PS+ subscription. So no, if I'm elitist I would be defending GT instead. And I would never call GT arcade or simcade. It's a sim, but one with flaws (whether intentional or non intentional, is up for debate) because it's aimed at mass market.

Ironically, AC is like the second most popular car game on Steam after Forza Horizon 5, despite being an "elitist hardcore sim". Why? Because the driving physics and FFB is second to none. It's got decent graphics, and you can virtually drive anything anywhere. This is what GT could've been if PD didn't get sidetracked with WipeOut VGTs and music rally.

https://steamdb.info/app/1551360/charts/

https://steamdb.info/app/244210/charts/

If I really hated Gran Turismo, I wouldn't have grinded 1 billion credits and raced in almost every FIA season since 2019. I love the quirky cars, presentation, graphics, menu music, creativity of the community with photomode/liver editor. I love the convenience of online racing and accessible physics while still maintaining some semblance of realism. But if I want to know what a car really feels like to drive, I boot up AC. I never done a single career mode or online race in AC. It's basically my test drive sandbox game. They both occupy different niches for my needs. But in terms of physics/FFB, GT is not as good as AC. At least not yet. Nothing to do with elitism, just saying it like it is. There are people in the forum who race extensively IRL and have engineering degrees who will tell you the same.

I'm not trying to convert you into an AC fan either, just sharing my POV and clearing up things for others reading this thread.

Now I go back to lurking until the next physics update in 6 months

 

[ScottPuss20]

One thing I hadn't yet done since the update was drive a front-wheel drive car. So I drove my '95 Integra with a widebody and it was fantastic. It was soo easy to drive and handled the Tsukuba Circuit beautifully without fuss. The car is well tuned for some spirited driving, unlike the Mazda 3 which I drove straight after. That car felt more cumbersome and didn't handle the course as well. You can tell that it's not a particularly sporty car. Then I drove my tuned C8 Corvette around Grand Valley. Now before the update the car was a bit of a diva because it struggled in the low speed corners. It was quite unstable at times but that's no longer an issue. I was soo impressed with the way the car drove because it felt soo natural. I got a heap of feedback from the car and I genuinely felt like I had more control over it. The feeling was absolutely wonderful; unlike anything I've ever experienced. I didn't want to stop driving. This physics update gets a massive tick of approval from me.

 

[Omiyup]

I'm using controller, am I the only one who don't like the new physics?
All car are understeering crazily, tried to turned the initial and accel on diff, even make it worse (rear diff). Turned down all front diff also doesn't help. Turn the sensitivity up to max (from 6) still no result. Did I make mistake on how I tuned cars?

I got faster lap time on 1.30, much worse on 1.31, what happened?
Anyone can help me?

 

[Iso Octane]

I was soo impressed with the way the car drove because it felt soo natural. I got a heap of feedback from the car and I genuinely felt like I had more control over it. The feeling was absolutely wonderful; unlike anything I've ever experienced. I didn't want to stop driving. This physics update gets a massive tick of approval from me.

I just had this exact same revelation. And I think it's not limited to how the tires behave at the limit. There is much more sense of immediacy, linearity, accuracy, and just damn connection with the car and the road than ever before, everywhere. Yes maybe there is indeed changes like how the tire carcass responds, or the "geometry changes" has affected how the whole system responds for the better. And the great thing also about this is that it's enhancing the differences in feel between different cars as well; they've always felt different, but somehow it's all more intense and addictive bouncing from car to car to feel them out.

So just now I was mock playing "in real life" driving on Grand Valley. Previously I was struggling to keep the car in the lane (silently stuggling and without much further thinking as to why). Especially in the tunnel curves it just felt hard to hold a constant radius, and then in the slow tight middle bits of the track I kept blowing the turns. Well... you know what I'm going to say... after this update those struggles went away. No problem staying in my lane, pushing it here and there, stepping the tail out here and there. It was fantastic.

Let's make sure I'm not imagining things. Hopped on over to the Nordschleife. First off, I do NOT know the Nordschleife. Never been my thing. Too long. Never had the patience for it. I'd casually take a spin now and again, but always crash lots and I have never completed a full lap in GT7, and can probably count the number of full laps I've ever done in my history of SIM driving on 1 hand. Took the Alfa 8C out and lapped the Tourist layout within 8 ish minutes or thereabouts I think, and only went off the track twice, no wall hits, checking the course map constantly. I was driving on intuition and the course map, and it was fine, it was even fun, and I had never ever done this before so successfully. And I credit it to this update.

Re-reading what I just wrote it sounds so ridiculously far fetched, like I'm a GT fanboy, but this really is my experience. And for the record, I passionately dismissed GT4 and GT5 because I hated the physics. Got bored of GT6 quite quickly. I was the snob who loved Live For Speed and Netkar Pro (pre Assetto Corsa for the young'uns). Now I'm loving GT7.

 

[Firestone]

Current GT physics has too much understeer compared to AC.

I find this the quite opposite. Cars like the GT86 have way too much understeer and scrub. On throttle understeer isn't correct as the car is actually snappy irl. One thing I noticed about the ffb response to tire slide and slip with oversteer correction is that it is too slow. When the back end brakes traction, there should be a snappy response to a quick countersteer similar to the video I posted, literally being able to saw at the steering. I get none of that from AC. I can't even break traction on eco tires in 3rd gear which you should be able to do with a controlled slide. In AC, the car just breaks slowly when it does and self aligns slowly. It's just not correct. This is a very basic car. These issues roll across to cars like the Mustang GT and other cars that can get squirmy. The Mustang GT handles rather flat.
AWD seems like a bust also. GTR Nismo feels like it has no presence of an active diff working. No off throttle yaw movement at lower speeds; no feeling of individual wheel braking while trail braking. It doesn't flow. The driving line need to be sharp and "square" in the game. Does not feel natural. I just can get myself to invest a lot of time in AC and all the Evo X mods feel horrible.

You lose the back end coming off the brakes (which IRL would transfer more weight to the rear and reduce oversteer). It's backwards and unnatural.

Sounds more like trail braking oversteer.

THE TRUTH ABOUT TRAIL BRAKING 2: THE PHYSICS OF TRAIL BRAKING

As a follow-up to my last article, The Truth About Trail Braking, I wanted to take deeper look into the physics behind trail braking. In this article, we'll explore the reasons we trail brake as well as when and how it should be done.

www.paradigmshiftracing.com

"On the other hand however, the basic trail braking control inputs of releasing brakes while increasing steering can cause a transient balance shift toward oversteer. "

Basically based on the traction circle, when you load the front tires under heavy braking you reduce the capacity of the tires to turn. Front and rear tires need equal lateral force for balance. When you brake hard and let off the brakes too quickly while turning in, before the rear tires load to equalize lateral grip, there is a moment where the front tires gains more lateral turning force in the tires before the rear tires can load and that causes you to lose the rear after lift. This is totally natural.

Too many people make AC a baseline of their car control knowledge. It's not the best baseline to go by.

 

[wheelhp]

@Iso Octane are you playing on the dualsense or a sim rig? Which tracks and cars are you favourite now after the update

 

[kilesa4568]

There's a nice balance and weight to road cars in the last update making driving a touch more enjoyable over the previous version. But...

I'm not a fan of the huge torque increase as you go up a class to race cars, though. My previous 4-2 feels at least double that and I've lost a lot of detail (clipping) as the downforce goes up as a result. Not to mention how hard my T300 is working in anything Gr related. Genuinely worried about it's durability running that high. Tried using 2 torque, which you'd think would be half of my too heavy to use 4 but it drops off to practically nothing and feels horrible to use. Settled on 3 because of me mainly using road cars but it would be great if we could have our preferred one setting for all car classes back, like it was in GTS. As it is, I'm going to avoid everything above Gr3 to preserve my wheel.

 

[Iso Octane]

@Iso Octane are you playing on the dualsense or a sim rig? Which tracks and cars are you favourite now after the update

I'm using a G29. All assists off of course and abs set to lowest.

Too soon for me to pick a favorite car, as I'll need much more time with them.

As for tracks I like for feeling out cars, it's Tsukuba as a way to feel out a car's balance in entry and steady state cornering. Then Streets of Willow to feel out transitions, stabilty, abrupt inputs, and decreasing radius type turns.

Nurb GP and Barcelona are fine too but I don't like long straights for road cars. (Ruins my imagination of pretending that I'm at a track day, which would never happen on an F1 scale track. Lol)

 

[Raf997]

Any FFB improvements with the last update?

 

[djolliea]

Any FFB improvements with the last update?

Yes. It's a lot better now. Much more detailed and with the new physics more realistic.

 

[Goldin]

There's a nice balance and weight to road cars in the last update making driving a touch more enjoyable over the previous version. But...

I'm not a fan of the huge torque increase as you go up a class to race cars, though. My previous 4-2 feels at least double that and I've lost a lot of detail (clipping) as the downforce goes up as a result. Not to mention how hard my T300 is working in anything Gr related. Genuinely worried about it's durability running that high. Tried using 2 torque, which you'd think would be half of my too heavy to use 4 but it drops off to practically nothing and feels horrible to use. Settled on 3 because of me mainly using road cars but it would be great if we could have our preferred one setting for all car classes back, like it was in GTS. As it is, I'm going to avoid everything above Gr3 to preserve my wheel.

You will be fine with FFB 3 for all categories, FFB4 is too much for cars with racing tyres.
I run on 4 with road cars (comfort and sport tyres), and switch back to 3 for race cars. I don't mind switching to be able to have so good feedback.

 

[Td04]

I find this the quite opposite. Cars like the GT86 have way too much understeer and scrub. On throttle understeer isn't correct as the car is actually snappy irl. One thing I noticed about the ffb response to tire slide and slip with oversteer correction is that it is too slow. When the back end brakes traction, there should be a snappy response to a quick countersteer similar to the video I posted, literally being able to saw at the steering. I get none of that from AC. I can't even break traction on eco tires in 3rd gear which you should be able to do with a controlled slide. In AC, the car just breaks slowly when it does and self aligns slowly. It's just not correct. This is a very basic car. These issues roll across to cars like the Mustang GT and other cars that can get squirmy. The Mustang GT handles rather flat.
AWD seems like a bust also. GTR Nismo feels like it has no presence of an active diff working. No off throttle yaw movement at lower speeds; no feeling of individual wheel braking while trail braking. It doesn't flow. The driving line need to be sharp and "square" in the game. Does not feel natural. I just can get myself to invest a lot of time in AC and all the Evo X mods feel horrible.

Sounds more like trail braking oversteer.

THE TRUTH ABOUT TRAIL BRAKING 2: THE PHYSICS OF TRAIL BRAKING

As a follow-up to my last article, The Truth About Trail Braking, I wanted to take deeper look into the physics behind trail braking. In this article, we'll explore the reasons we trail brake as well as when and how it should be done.

www.paradigmshiftracing.com

"On the other hand however, the basic trail braking control inputs of releasing brakes while increasing steering can cause a transient balance shift toward oversteer. "

Basically based on the traction circle, when you load the front tires under heavy braking you reduce the capacity of the tires to turn. Front and rear tires need equal lateral force for balance. When you brake hard and let off the brakes too quickly while turning in, before the rear tires load to equalize lateral grip, there is a moment where the front tires gains more lateral turning force in the tires before the rear tires can load and that causes you to lose the rear after lift. This is totally natural.

Too many people make AC a baseline of their car control knowledge. It's not the best baseline to go by.

Man, you are the only one here who seems to play the "same" AC that i play.

 

[kilesa4568]

You will be fine with FFB 3 for all categories, FFB4 is too much for cars with racing tyres.
I run on 4 with road cars (comfort and sport tyres), and switch back to 3 for race cars. I don't mind switching to be able to have so good feedback.

3 torque is too high in Gr1, 2 and single seaters, though. Lots of clipping going on while the wheel deals with the excessive weight. It actually feels like the power steering has been completely turned off.

 

[krsch27]

I am using a controller , with default settings, and no TC . Is there something I can change in "counter steer assist" that will nullify or diminish the changes that apparently offer "improved realism"?

 

[PirovacBoy]

Quite interesting and maybe most important physics change so far no one has mentioned or talked about…
The low speed acceleration/ low speed on throttle curve.
Something which was utterly broken since GT Sport and PD wasn’t , couldn’t or maybe just neglected to fix due to the dulled Tire Model we previously had to deal with since 2017.
It’s fixed.
Yes, it’s been finally fixed.
@Lord Protector my old friend it’s fixed, unbelievable but PD made the impossible possible.
No idea how you guys feel about it or if it even was something that was upsetting you, but THIS single fix to the tire model shows to me how groundbreaking the updated tire Model is.
Overall I must admit that the current Physics/Tire/ForceFeedback implementation seems to be the most advanced Triangle Simulation we ever had in a GT Game.
It’s a very well balanced combination of Chassis/ Suspension Dynamics paired with a finally plausible Tire Compounds Simulation which is simulated perfectly and communicated in a very authentic way.

So yes, I’m very impressed with the updated physics and as someone who already has put in way over 1500 hours behind the Wheel in GT7 ( no stupid Grinding) and as someone who tries to drive and test ALL available cars across all sorts of tire compounds and I’m very nitpicky when it comes to subtle FF Details , I have to salut PD and thank them for making a good game even better and more enjoyable then before.
Good Job Kaz thumbs up PD 💪🏻

 

[ScottPuss20]

I can't get enough of these new physics. It's absolutely addictive. Pretty much all the cars I drove yesterday were characterful and provided unique experiences that beat Assetto Corsa in my opinion. I took an E92 M3 and a De Tomaso Pantera around the Nurburgring and they were fantastic cars to throw around. The physics are soo communicative compared to before - you instantly know when you've gone into a corner little too fast or jumped on the throttle too early. It feels like a proper simulator now. I can't wait to see what's coming next.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

Quite interesting and maybe most important physics change so far no one has mentioned or talked about…
The low speed acceleration/ low speed on throttle curve.
Something which was utterly broken since GT Sport and PD wasn’t , couldn’t or maybe just neglected to fix due to the dulled Tire Model we previously had to deal with since 2017.
It’s fixed.
Yes, it’s been finally fixed.
@Lord Protector my old friend it’s fixed, unbelievable but PD made the impossible possible.
No idea how you guys feel about it or if it even was something that was upsetting you, but THIS single fix to the tire model shows to me how groundbreaking the updated tire Model is.
Overall I must admit that the current Physics/Tire/ForceFeedback implementation seems to be the most advanced Triangle Simulation we ever had in a GT Game.
It’s a very well balanced combination of Chassis/ Suspension Dynamics paired with a finally plausible Tire Compounds Simulation which is simulated perfectly and communicated in a very authentic way.

So yes, I’m very impressed with the updated physics and as someone who already has put in way over 1500 hours behind the Wheel in GT7 ( no stupid Grinding) and as someone who tries to drive and test ALL available cars across all sorts of tire compounds and I’m very nitpicky when it comes to subtle FF Details , I have to salut PD and thank them for making a good game even better and more enjoyable then before.
Good Job Kaz thumbs up PD 💪🏻

Question is the issue where in specifically FF cars the rev limiter just bounces like crazy is 1st gear? Is this the Low speed acceleration your talking about?

Vtec sound title aside just consider the fact when the car is on standstill and while it accelerate's the tires begin to spin and you can see the RPM slowy raise up instead of bouncing off like crazy. Sorry for using Forza as an example since I cannot find any video demonstrating this.


I did notice while on controller with traction controll off driving the Civic ek9 and several other FF cars on a stand still it did not bounce on the rev limiter as previous time's but instead made a distinctive "waaaaaaah" while the tire spins in order to gain traction (if I explained this correctly?)

Previously the car would just start bouncing off the limiter like crazy. I own a scion TC in real life and I can say the FF cars in GT7 now have a very similar reaction when you take off if this made any sense if what your explaining.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Question is the issue where in specifically FF cars the rev limiter just bounces like crazy is 1st gear? Is this the Low speed acceleration your talking about?

Vtec sound title aside just consider the fact when the car is on standstill and while it accelerate's the tires begin to spin and you can see the RPM slowy raise up instead of bouncing off like crazy. Sorry for using Forza as an example since I cannot find any video demonstrating this.


I did notice while on controller with traction controll off driving the Civic ek9 and several other FF cars on a stand still it did not bounce on the rev limiter as previous time's but instead made a distinctive "waaaaaaah" while the tire spins in order to gain traction (if I explained this correctly?)

Previously the car would just start bouncing off the limiter like crazy. I own a scion TC in real life and I can say the FF cars in GT7 now have a very similar reaction when you take off if this made any sense if what your explaining.

Nope, that’s not what I meant or said.
The issue was the following.
Although trying to accelerate and the rpm going up, the tires just refused to grip.
No matter what, applying gas slowly and gently or more progressive and linear, the tires just didn’t grip.
Engine Rpm went up but the car refused to accelerate.
You could even go so far and stay in 1st gear in high rpm holding it at let’s say 8k rpm with a steady throttle application and the tires just simply didn’t respond how they would in real life.
It was a well known issue since the beginning days of GT Sport.
No matter what tire/suspension/physics updates introduced by PD over the years.
It never changed.
This time though, well, this time they obviously seem to have completely rearranged the underlying tire physics as the issue is gone. Completely.
I was quite shocked to be honest as I immediately knew that THIS Update had some fundamental changes to the tire model and the way it’s been communicated.

 

[Lord Protector]

Quite interesting and maybe most important physics change so far no one has mentioned or talked about…
The low speed acceleration/ low speed on throttle curve.
Something which was utterly broken since GT Sport and PD wasn’t , couldn’t or maybe just neglected to fix due to the dulled Tire Model we previously had to deal with since 2017.
It’s fixed.
Yes, it’s been finally fixed.
@Lord Protector my old friend it’s fixed, unbelievable but PD made the impossible possible.
No idea how you guys feel about it or if it even was something that was upsetting you, but THIS single fix to the tire model shows to me how groundbreaking the updated tire Model is.
Overall I must admit that the current Physics/Tire/ForceFeedback implementation seems to be the most advanced Triangle Simulation we ever had in a GT Game.
It’s a very well balanced combination of Chassis/ Suspension Dynamics paired with a finally plausible Tire Compounds Simulation which is simulated perfectly and communicated in a very authentic way.

So yes, I’m very impressed with the updated physics and as someone who already has put in way over 1500 hours behind the Wheel in GT7 ( no stupid Grinding) and as someone who tries to drive and test ALL available cars across all sorts of tire compounds and I’m very nitpicky when it comes to subtle FF Details , I have to salut PD and thank them for making a good game even better and more enjoyable then before.
Good Job Kaz thumbs up PD 💪🏻

Ferrari F8 Tributo 0-100 km/h

Real life: ~2.6s
GT7: ~3.8s

I’m not as convinced as you are

 

[BigSarj]

A top split player's take:

 

[redbullfix]

"Top Split" driver talking about setups, and using TC
Interesting take, as Top Split are BOP only races

 

[PirovacBoy]

Ferrari F8 Tributo 0-100 km/h

Real life: ~2.6s
GT7: ~3.8s

I’m not as convinced as you are

Nitpicker 😁
Actually 2.9s is more true to life and on top of that I can’t confirm your results
I tested it myself and managed 0-100 times between 2.66s to 2.91s which obviously covers it’s real life acceleration very accurate.
No idea where your 3.8s come from 😅

 

[BigSarj]

"Top Split" driver talking about setups, and using TC
Interesting take, as Top Split are BOP only races

I'm just going by what he is saying. My bad if I got it wrong.

 

[Lord Protector]

Nitpicker 😁
Actually 2.9s is more true to life and on top of that I can’t confirm your results
I tested it myself and managed 0-100 times between 2.66s to 2.91s which obviously covers it’s real life acceleration very accurate.
No idea where your 3.8s come from 😅

Stock car and stock tyres?

 

[PirovacBoy]

Stock car and stock tyres?

Yes 100% stock car fresh outta dealership

 

[redbullfix]

I'm just going by what he is saying. My bad if I got it wrong.

Not at all, just an interesting take from the guy
No top split driver uses TC that I've ever seen, unless it rains, or for grid starts, and nearly all online races are BOP
Not saying his point are invalid

 

[Lord Protector]

Yes 100% stock car fresh outta dealership

I don’t understand then mine’s stock as well, tested on SSRX in the tunnel (no wind). I tried with both TC0 and TC1 and fastest I got was 3.8

 

[BigSarj]

Not at all, just an interesting take from the guy
No top split driver uses TC that I've ever seen, unless it rains, or for grid starts, and nearly all online races are BOP
Not saying his point are invalid

I stopped watching at the setups section so I didn't catch that. Most reviews have been pretty positive and look forward to future updates.

 

[UnkaD]

Does anyone else feel like full wet tires are more useless than before the update? I remember on inters you would hydroplane over 120 mph in the third bar of surface water, but that doesn't happen now. With how quickly the rain dries once it stops falling I've found that inters are the only real choice.

 

[Lord Protector]

Does anyone else feel like full wet tires are more useless than before the update? I remember on inters you would hydroplane over 120 mph in the third bar of surface water, but that doesn't happen now. With how quickly the rain dries once it stops falling I've found that inters are the only real choice.

I really hate how everything is sped up when it comes to weather effect 😏