Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT


  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
This is what Evo magazine said in regard to the phase 2...

"Above 60mph or so, if your commitment starts to waver mid-corner you become instantly aware there's a sting in that absurdly broad tail. When momentum starts to overtake you, things happen pretty sharply. In the split-second it takes to register with your brain, your palms already need a wipe on your thigh and you know you've only got one chance to gather things up. This isn't a car to take liberties with through high-speed corners."

...now keep in mind that's the Phase 2 that they describe as...
A friend of mine with a lot of racing experience described the Clio V6 in the same way. He found the older R5 Maxi Turbo even worse.

My point is the issue can be with the Clio itself and not the physics engine. The MR2 has a short wheel base, with 57% rear weight and has violent lift off characteristics. An example of one car can't conclude the whole batch.
Probably. The handling of the RR Porsches became much better during the last updates, but the - also RR '72 Alpine A110 - is still undriveable in GT7. Imo this proves that the handling of cars is reworked individually.
 
GT7 physics might be far from ideal, but overall I think it's pretty good overall. The Assetto Corsa for example, feels far from reality to me, to be honest, even if it has advanced physics calculations. Couple of months ago I went to a sim racing arcade, where they have these $2+K sim rigs and run AC, booked an hour and a half session. While the force feedback on the wheel was perfect, just like a real car, the cars behavior itself was questionable, especially the tire grip, or the lack of it. I ran couple of sessions with GR86 on Tsukuba, AE86 on Zandvoort and a drift 240SX on our local drift track which luckily was installed on their machines. The next day I went to that track in my 240. I'm far from being even somewhat experienced driver, however, drifting my real 240, which is less modified (less angle and stock engine power) is waaay easier than drifting it in AC. Same thing for grip driving.
I haven't tried GT7 with a wheel, but on a controller it feels pretty decent, except for some oversteer behavior, which is a bit exaggerated in certain cars.
Another sim that feels very close to real life to me is BeamNG.Drive.
Just my 2 cents.
 
Last edited:
Was hyped for C8 was hoping for it since the game came. Now, when tuned, the car feels as if it wants to take flight and wanders all over the place at high speed.

I can't feel any tell-tale sign of a sudden oversteer besides my car acting as if it suddenly unstuck itself
 
Was hyped for C8 was hoping for it since the game came. Now, when tuned, the car feels as if it wants to take flight and wanders all over the place at high speed.

I can't feel any tell-tale sign of a sudden oversteer besides my car acting as if it suddenly unstuck itself
Probably a result of the tuning? As the stock C8 drives a bit challenging, but very enjoyable imo.
 
Probably a result of the tuning? As the stock C8 drives a bit challenging, but very enjoyable imo.
For me. It shares the same issue that most mid engines have in the game.

There is no tell-tale sign of transition of grip into oversteer. I will be steering, tacked onto the road, like a bit of sandwich stuck to the roof of your mouth and then suddenly I oversteer. There is no definitive line to tell you when you go out, and I hate that and it shouldn't be that way, it makes it nigh impossible to play as you can't 'feel' for the edge, just that you need to reach the edge and remember subconciously not to even touch it.

There's no shift to the cars or slip angle. either grip or no grip and you're out.
 
Apparently we feel it differently. Compared to my IRL experience, MR cars are very (almost too) gentle in GT7. When I was a student my daily driver was a Porsche 914. Took it to 2 tracks, but found it very hard to drive on the edge. It used to surprise break-out, and with its low inertial moment, I needed to react with absolutely zero delay not to loose it.
I also owned a Matra, which was much more stable and even understeering in rainy conditions.

In GT7 the C8 is challenging indeed, but cars like the Clio V6 and R5 Turbo are way to gentle.
From the other side, some RR cars like the Beetle and '72 A110 behave in the game closely to my MR 914 IRL.
 
Last edited:
For me. It shares the same issue that most mid engines have in the game.

There is no tell-tale sign of transition of grip into oversteer. I will be steering, tacked onto the road, like a bit of sandwich stuck to the roof of your mouth and then suddenly I oversteer. There is no definitive line to tell you when you go out, and I hate that and it shouldn't be that way, it makes it nigh impossible to play as you can't 'feel' for the edge, just that you need to reach the edge and remember subconciously not to even touch it.

There's no shift to the cars or slip angle. either grip or no grip and you're out.
this has been discussed so much in this thread. It actually has improved through the patches and the last consensus is that it is much closer to real life now than at launch or around the 1.15 patch where the cars were too docile.

Something else is wrong with your tune is my guess, the stock C8 drives just fine, and better than the C7 for one
 
this has been discussed so much in this thread. It actually has improved through the patches and the last consensus is that it is much closer to real life now than at launch or around the 1.15 patch where the cars were too docile.

Something else is wrong with your tune is my guess, the stock C8 drives just fine, and better than the C7 for one
It has improved I will admit that. Way better than when the game first came out where you would violently snap oversteer. But I've been recently holding off the game a month or two at a time before going back at a new update to see how the same cars feel. And they definitely improved. Especially for front engined cars. They make gradual changes, so to me, I've been keeping off the game a month at a time and waiting for the next update or two before I got back to test the same cars and the new cars.

mid-engined, both stock and tuned feel borked where I'm suddenly skidding.

This is the same for every car, but the mid-engined cars are the most exaggerated. The physics are just not up to par compared to sims even the 90's and 2000's had correct
 
Last edited:
It has improved I will admit that. Way better than when the game first came out where you would violently snap oversteer. But I've been recently holding off the game a month or two at a time before going back at a new update to see how the same cars feel. And they definitely improved. Especially for front engined cars. They make gradual changes, so to me, I've been keeping off the game a month at a time and waiting for the next update or two before I got back to test the same cars and the new cars.

mid-engined, both stock and tuned feel borked where I'm suddenly skidding.

This is the same for every car, but the mid-engined cars are the most exaggerated. The physics are just not up to par compared to sims even the 90's and 2000's had correct
It has improved. In the meantime you can try tuning your cars individually. As many GT games in past, the cars never handle perfectly out the box. The game wants to be a sandbox but it's not all that accurate when it comes to overall car physics across the board, so tune em individually for understeer, mess with dampers, roll bars and lock the differentials when tuning.
 
I've driven close to a dozen different cars in the last week, from purebred racecars to engine swapped death traps and classic sports cars. What makes me really happy is just how different each vehicle is from one another. Assetto Corsa may have more realism under the skin but on a controller, the difference in feel is negligible. In fact I'm very much of the belief that GT7 is the better driving game, particularly when it comes to road cars and road tyres. Not so much with race cars and racing tyres though. That's where it seems to fall a bit short.
 
As many GT games in past, the cars never handle perfectly out the box.
There have been exceptions 'though, like the new Alpha.

Not only does it handle "perfectly" out-of-the-box, but it does so even after the full upgrades sans any tuning.
 
Last edited:
There have been exceptions 'though, like the new Alpha.

Not only does it handle "perfectly" out-of-the-box, but it does so even after the full upgrades sans any tuning.

Love the car for sure, but was a bit 'dicey' imo braking at speed/or lifting off throttle at speed before turn.

The praianos tune sorts that, and handles great with tcs0, but still need some level of care, hitting the throttle coming out of turns.
 
I have no idea re how realistic it is, but after a couple of months away from the game and returning, I'm loving it. FFB feels stronger, level of engagement/immersiveness is simply incredbible to my mind. Loving it.Really is superb imo. Racing around Daytona, Redbull R, Interlagos earlier.

Only downside was Willow Springs as can;t stand it and its numerous variations... god knows why PD released disproportionate number of events on that cirucit v actually decent circuits. to my laymans motor racing mind, some of the turns are simply horrendous, particularly when the race involves high pp cars. Plus really can't stomach its surroundings, in middle of the desert. At least Laguna Seca (similar surroundings) is a proper decent circuit. Spent hours randomly trialling different cars on that, unlike most of other tracks - almost sends me into some hynotic state, few other tracks do. Flows so well. Whover designed Willow Springs deserves to be shot :D. Well, being dragged down the home straight is probably more fitting...

Overall superb experience, particularly in more powerful road cars and classes above. I'm using Fanatec DD Pro and was bumper view before, but moved to cockpit. Please release full vr integration PD...
 
Last edited:
GT7 physics might be far from ideal, but overall I think it's pretty good overall. The Assetto Corsa for example, feels far from reality to me, to be honest, even if it has advanced physics calculations. Couple of months ago I went to a sim racing arcade, where they have these $2+K sim rigs and run AC, booked an hour and a half session. While the force feedback on the wheel was perfect, just like a real car, the cars behavior itself was questionable, especially the tire grip, or the lack of it. I ran couple of sessions with GR86 on Tsukuba, AE86 on Zandvoort and a drift 240SX on our local drift track which luckily was installed on their machines. The next day I went to that track in my 240. I'm far from being even somewhat experienced driver, however, drifting my real 240, which is less modified (less angle and stock engine power) is waaay easier than drifting it in AC. Same thing for grip driving.
I haven't tried GT7 with a wheel, but on a controller it feels pretty decent, except for some oversteer behavior, which is a bit exaggerated in certain cars.
Another sim that feels very close to real life to me is BeamNG.Drive.
Just my 2 cents.
Well, after spending a bit more time with AC sifting through multiple cars, both stock and mod ones, I came to a conclusion that AC is more realistic, but only when you have proper tires (which in most cases are not the ones the car comes with). The actual car behavior, suspension movement, weight transfer is very good in AC, but it's just the weird lack of grip of the majority of tires is the problem. Like the AE86 (Tuned version) from my initial post. It gets the tire squeal and understeer even when you turn the wheel about 30 degrees at about 60 km/h. And that's default PD car. I can't imagine how old and worn tires have to be in order to behave like that on a tarmac.
GT7 feels less advanced, but quite decent anyway. Big plus is that you don't have to spend hours in Content Manager tinkering with cars to install tires that have at least some kind of grip. It's a bit simplified but good out of the box. And of course you can't modify cars in AC.
 
Last edited:
Anyone noticed that most FF and FR street cars and some MR cannot lock their wheels any more under braking (on SH tyres, without ABS)? Only under [braking + turning] wheels tend to lock. Cars drive like some dummie mechanic did put grease on the brakes. It is even visible in the replays as - even under full braking - they barely nosedive.

You can fix it by upgrading the brakes, different upgrades needed for different cars to achieve minimal lock (at low speed).
But some cars are unupgradeable, e.g. Corvette SS concept, which won't lock up with its "stock" slotted disks and race pads.

I can understand PD, it's probably a cheap incentive to "tune" our brakes. However, with Brembo as a partner, I'd expect brake tuning to be about preventing brakes overheating after 3-4 laps, or about more precise dosing of brake power. If never driven any car, including 60's, 70's, 80's which were not able to lock all 4 wheels. The'd probably not even pass yearly technical inspection.
 
They didn’t utilise the KW suspension data either. I expect no less care given. To PD, it’s paramount that the replay camera angle take maximum precedence over seat of the pants driving.
 
Last edited:
When I did the time trial at Sardegna yesterday, I noticed that the windmills weren't moving. I thought, that's strange, but then I remembered that there's no wind in the online time trials. So that got me thinking: does a physical particle model push the fan blades in real time or is it just a simple animation that changes based on the indicated wind speed?
 
Let's hope they're based purely on wind speed for the sake of CPU efficiency Scott.

That said, PD could've used the particle model you asked about and even taken angle of incidence into account. :lol:
 
Let's hope they're based purely on wind speed for the sake of CPU efficiency Scott.

That said, PD could've used the particle model you asked about and even taken angle of incidence into account. :lol:
OK but if the windmills moving is a visual effect, how do you explain dirty air? There has to be some sort of particle simulation going on for such a thing to occur.
 
Last edited:
Well, after spending a bit more time with AC sifting through multiple cars, both stock and mod ones, I came to a conclusion that AC is more realistic, but only when you have proper tires (which in most cases are not the ones the car comes with). The actual car behavior, suspension movement, weight transfer is very good in AC, but it's just the weird lack of grip of the majority of tires is the problem. Like the AE86 (Tuned version) from my initial post. It gets the tire squeal and understeer even when you turn the wheel about 30 degrees at about 60 km/h. And that's default PD car. I can't imagine how old and worn tires have to be in order to behave like that on a tarmac.
GT7 feels less advanced, but quite decent anyway. Big plus is that you don't have to spend hours in Content Manager tinkering with cars to install tires that have at least some kind of grip. It's a bit simplified but good out of the box. And of course you can't modify cars in AC.
Just realized that the controller has a gyro mode, lol, so I tried it. I am shocked how it transformed the GT7. This is quite surprising how thumbstick steering differs from the gyro. It's like it's two different games. Once I got used to it, I must say, this is the most realistic experience I ever had in terms of car handling in any sim ever. In my opinion it's much better than AC. Damn, getting a wheel is so tempting now, lol.
 
OK but if the windmills moving is a visual effect, how do you explain dirty air? There has to be some sort of particle simulation going on for such a thing to occur.
I think they simulate wind. Vanilla had a video about it on his youtube channel. Through a hacked PS4, he could make wind have 99999 km/h and it could throw cars away
 
I think they simulate wind. Vanilla had a video about it on his youtube channel. Through a hacked PS4, he could make wind have 99999 km/h and it could throw cars away
Lmao, I have to watch that. I love when people change values to absurd numbers and just break the game. Like the Benz Patent Motor Wagen in GT4 with 10,000 BHP.
 
Last edited:
I am a 20+yr games developer who specialises in racing game vehicle dynamics/physics, race classic touring cars for real and think driving aids suck, I drive GT7 on a Fanatec DD etc, I only mention that as I have massive expectations for gameplay when it comes to being bothered to play something or not, I am 40+ menus into the Cafe :)

I am enjoying more elements of the driving experience in GT7 than I am disliking, sure there is things I don't like and that could be improved, but you could say the same about any product, there is no perfect driving/racing game.

lf there is one thing I have learned about this industry, everyone is an expert and everyone has an opinion, and they rarely align because of so many different variables and expectations, this can be said in RL as well, you can literally have two drivers giving different feedback about the car back to back who have very different styles of driving.

The game design in general is where I dislike GT7 the most, as a developer myself some of the design choices confuse the heck out of me, the actual driving experience itself I find mostly good fun with good dollops of healthy and authentic gameplay, I have an Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio in real life and give that hell around the track for real, the GTAm in game shares some core feelings you feel in RL, those authentic undertones are carried across several other cars in game I have driven that I have once owned in RL as well.
 
Last edited:
I've driven close to a dozen different cars in the last week, from purebred racecars to engine swapped death traps and classic sports cars. What makes me really happy is just how different each vehicle is from one another. Assetto Corsa may have more realism under the skin but on a controller, the difference in feel is negligible. In fact I'm very much of the belief that GT7 is the better driving game, particularly when it comes to road cars and road tyres. Not so much with race cars and racing tyres though. That's where it seems to fall a bit short.
Funnily enough the race tyres are probably my single biggest slight disappointment, the comfort tyres and sport tyres feel pretty good I think, the last part of the tyre model feels rushed and not progressive enough compared to the slicks I have experienced anyway ?
 
I've driven on a Logitech G29 for the 7 years it lasted me. Just had a test run of my new wheel, the Thrustmaster T300 GT Edition, and I ran the Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A '02 on the Nordschleife on both GT7 and PS4 AC. No aids except for factory ABS and auto blip (I don't have a shifter).

The physics of GT7 have never jived with me. Even now, almost a year into release, the cars feel unnatural, uninformative, and sometimes downright random in where and how they lose grip. When I slam on the brakes, the rear end will swing out as though an air–cooled 911 if I gave it any slight steering angle. The suspension seems to have excessive stroke both front and rear, and it greatly exaggerates how unstable the car becomes under braking. Past the apexes of corners, it takes only a microscopic throttle input to spin out this sub 300HP car with 255 section rear tyres, especially when riding on the trackside kerbs. And it happens with no warning and feedback.

The force feedback in GT7 might as well not exist. The road feels as smooth as soapy mirror; nothing of the high kerbs or the undulating banking of the Karussell comes through, let alone any nuanced surface details of the road. The only feedback I get from the steering wheel is when the front tyres have exceeded their grip, in which case I only get an awkward, sudden juddering effect from the wheel. The wheel itself doesn't "load up" when approaching the limits of grip when turning, nor does it lighten up at all when grip is lost and the tyres are slipping. Quite simply, I never know what the heck is going on with the tyres of the car, because of how bad the FFB of GT7 is. The especially frustrating part is that I could've sworn I felt all that in GTS.

I actually had a much easier time driving this combo in AC, the supposedly more hardcore simulator, and I don't even have the words. The car and track felt alive. I could feel myself building up to the limits of the car. It took about two laps before I felt that "eureka!" moment, and everything clicked, and I could just lose myself and turn lap after lap without incident—something GT7 hasn't achieved in almost a year.

Does anyone have any advice for me on how I can understand GT7's physics? Any views or opinions are also welcome. Thanks in advance. I really, really want to like GT7, but its physics just feel incredibly random and arbitrary to me.
 
Back