Gran Turismo - Open World Freeroam? (Read OP)

[analog]

Adding free roam would make it seem even more "arcadey".

Why should it make it more arcadey? Driving on roads in real life isn't more arcadey than driving on tracks (it's different obviously).
Not aiming this at you necessarily but the argument of arcade versus sim is always brought up when discussing a new feature like free roam or engine swaps, etc. despite them occuring in real life.

It's funny we're (the ones only playing GT5) still in a phase where we argue whether something should be included or deemed appropriate when things like a livery editor, engine swaps and now a separate free roam game can be used or bought by those playing its main competitor if they choose to.

I'm not suggesting PD should blindly follow that approach (apart from currently not even being able to do so apparantly with limited number of staff compared) but you don't even have to be particularly openminded to see that there's still a lot of scope left to explore within the concept of GT without it hurting the main game structure (although that's arguably ripe for an overhaul too).
Other than that there currently are bigger priorities and time/resource constraints, I haven't yet seen a convincing argument why free roam should't fit (like a glove) within the concept of GT.

 

[spinner]

no, lets get the rest of the game in order first.

Free roam would be totally useless and a complete waste of time. I'd rather see something that actually rises the standard of GT5 rather than another feature that makes no sense whatsoever.

Sure would be nice, anything extra is nice, but first fix the nagging issues that many people share!

If I wanted Free Roam - I'd play NFS, TDU or GTA IV.

Free roam wouldn't offer anything. The disc space it would take up could be put to better use with more cars and circuits and events.

Its all been said so I just picked out the first few responses that I totally agree with. These and so many more reasons why. Dont want to race ? Why did you buy a racing game ?

So its a NO from me.

 

[monkeyfoeva21]

Personally I would be happy with just one little town at the start. Have an actual garage for GT Auto, a "Home" to access the home garage, a used car dealer, a new showroom, and an airport to access the races... To start, later more can be added to it...

 

[analog]

Dont want to race ? Why did you buy a racing game ?

Who said they don't like to race? I love racing online on closed tracks (most of the racing offline hardly offers much fun to me) but I also like to just drive the cars available with GT's physics offline in free practice a lot of the time.

A free roam mode would seriously broaden this aspect, the sheer and simple pleasure of just driving around in cars I can't drive (read afford) in real life on a wide range of roads and the freedom to just take another direction (just driving without the unavoidable repeatedness of any closed track).
Couple this with dealing with traffic and all sorts of online shenanigans possible, I think it could be a lot of fun.

That's why I bought GT5, to race and drive and have fun, the same reason I bought GT-games before.

 

[carfanatic45]

Who said they don't like to race? I love racing online on closed tracks (most of the racing offline hardly offers much fun to me) but I also like to just drive the cars available with GT's physics offline in free practice a lot of the time.

A free roam mode would seriously broaden this aspect, the sheer and simple pleasure of just driving around in cars I can't drive (read afford) in real life on a wide range of roads and the freedom to just take another direction (just driving without the unavoidable repeatedness of any closed track).
Couple this with dealing with traffic and all sorts of online shenanigans possible, I think it could be a lot of fun.

That's why I bought GT5, to race and drive and have fun, the same reason I bought GT-games before.

I couldn't agree more, I liked playing the Burnout Paradise game and NFS games and even though i've completed them I still go to drive around the city for no apparent reason. Just because I like driving. I think it would be nice to have Free Roam and because obviously not everyone will like it, than PD can make it optional.

 

[HeXoSKEL3t0n]

I'd say yes, but save it for GT6.

But seriously, I feel that adding a public mountain/hilly/back roads "track" is more than sufficient already.

Don't feel it's necessary for PD to recreate cities for free roam, as it would take too much time + I wouldn't want to waste time idling in traffic in game.
But, obviously if it's possible to implement easily, I'd would still most welcome it (Could give us more great backdrops for photo mode)

 

[alexlam24]

Personally I would be happy with just one little town at the start. Have an actual garage for GT Auto, a "Home" to access the home garage, a used car dealer, a new showroom, and an airport to access the races... To start, later more can be added to it...

One place I know they can use is R246. They already have a bit of it modeled

 

[Callum B]

Like many before me, I think it's best for PD to master the racing side of the game before they fixate on anything else. Personally if I want to free roam on a game I hop onto TDU2 so although it would be nice it's not vital just yet.

 

[Flaco13]

One place I know they can use is R246. They already have a bit of it modeled

But the R246 is an existing road, I think. That would make it maybe difficult to implement? Licences etc?
On the other hand your right, they have it already and most likely have a somewhat big sourrounding area of that track, aswell as Stage Route 5, SS7.

As a City in the center of a map like Jbanton and Toko suggested, with passroads and diferent surfaces maybe?

Don't think they would just add this to GT5 either. IF they even work on anything like that, it would sure be better as a seperate game.

Just my two cents, if many's won't agree I totally understand:
I would be happy with a map based on the GT City tracks (the mentioned above) in the size of San Andreas or even TDU's Island (either one), well a huge map.

Instead of a small map in high quality.

And every road car GT has ever modeled, as long as they have a license for it, in standard quality. Maybe just model interieur(like the Judd RC) and model the exterieur somehow acceptable.

Quantity not Quality

 

[interpolfan11]

One place I know they can use is R246. They already have a bit of it modeled

This is what I've been saying the whole time.

But in all seriousness, I'd still like to see it based on the area around Tokyo R246 and the SSR highway system. Add in some windy mountain roads on the outskirts of Tokyo, and I think we'll have an incredible map that wouldn't take as many resources as other ideas in this thread since much of the map would be pre-exisisting.

Basing it on much of preexisting Tokyo R246 and the SSR highway system would make a free roam mode feasible for GT6, rather than a whole unique GT game (like Horizon).

 

[Griffith500]

I'm not getting the "Burnout-clone" claims, to be honest. For me, the open world of Burnout Paradise added very little to the Burnout "experience" and, actually, if anything took the focus away a bit. I suppose a bit like the change between NFSU and NFSU2 - the open world in both cases were relatively uninteresting and simply got in the way of progress (much as a driveable "world map" would in GT). Burnout was always about the silly, fast-paced Ridge Racer "drift" physics and gratuitous crashes, not exploration / free driving, for me. But to each their own.

On that note, I feel the game that best approaches my attitudes to what a free roam mode could be like, in terms of just driving, is actually GTAIV. Combined with the best driving physics of the series and the excellent location and its interactivity, I had more fun just moseying about Liberty City in a Blista (or whatever other mundanity I happened to brutally seize at any particular moment) than I did doing the actual storyline.

Interestingly, TDU2 did nothing for me, (way too dudebro in attitude for a start), its driving was dynamically numb and the actual road layout was a touch everyday / uninteresting / seemingly not made with driving in mind (they were after all trying to make a believable world, which is mostly full of dull roads).

I'm not suggesting that GT should allow us to get out of the car and assault fellow drivers, just the same as no one is saying GT should copy Burnout's driving model.
I know we're all relative beings, and so we can only really compare to what's been before, but don't stymie the discussion by simply stating "we don't need an x clone". That's just lazy, short-sighted and unimaginative - which is probably only par for the course in this age of spoon-feeding...


Why don't we try to imagine how an open driving mode could work in the context of a Gran Turismo game, and actually bolster the entire package, rather than dismiss the idea entirely based on unrelated games?
As has already been mentioned, there are plenty of people who just run practice sessions simply to drive the cars. It would be nice to have a bit more variety and free choice in those instances, just to go where you feel like it.

What I think people really want is an interconnected network of driving roads, not necessarily a "city" like Burnout, GTA, NFSU2 etc. As a start, think the Special Stages all linked up and connecting to more rural roads etc., not boring grid-based cities. Now think about all the best driving roads you've ever been on, all interconnected with next-to-no "filler". A lofty goal, but surely worth the time and effort.

 

[ZZ-II]

I want a german autobahn : D. The A9 from Nuremberg to Munich is great.

 

[analog]

@Griffith500, have you tried Driver San Francisco? It's probably better for the purpose of just driving around than GTA IV (even though I don't think it supports using a wheel).

And I think you're preaching to the converted regarding using your imagination, whenever a new feature is discussed there's always someone who brings up an unrelated game-series which has a somewhat similar sounding concept and can apparantly only imagine it being implemented in exactly the same way.

Including things like engine swaps, bikes or free roam somehow automatically lead to GT suddenly becoming an arcade game apparantly, as only other arcade games have these combinations and there's absolutely no way it can be incorporated within another type of concept......

 

[Griffith500]

@Griffith500, have you tried Driver San Francisco? It's probably better for the purpose of just driving around than GTA IV (even though I don't think it supports using a wheel).

And I think you're preaching to the converted regarding using your imagination, whenever a new feature is discussed there's always someone who brings up an unrelated game-series which has a somewhat similar sounding concept and can apparantly only imagine it being implemented in exactly the same way.

Including things like engine swaps, bikes or free roam somehow automatically lead to GT suddenly becoming an arcade game apparantly, as only other arcade games have these combinations and there's absolutely no way it can be incorporated within another type of concept......

I only played the multiplayer demo of the new Driver game. I could probably get my mitts on a copy though (from a fan of the original who didn't particularly like this newest one). I only mentioned GTAIV because I thought it was amusing that I was "abusing" it in that way - in fact, such "abuse" is characteristic of the "communities" that build up around any successful (memorable) game, and there are plenty of people out there "abusing" GT5 in all the right ways!

Regarding "preaching to the converted", did you really mean something like "talking to a brick wall"? If not, I accept that there are plenty of people who can visualise what a GT game with a more "open" feel would be like, which is why I said what I said.
We should be talking about what a free roam mode would be like in the context of GT, not how making GT more like another game inherently makes it more like that game!
A similar thing happened in the "motorbikes in GT" thread, where the curt, dismissive responses, and subsequent reactions, just overwhelmed it.


I totally agree about engine swaps etc. It's all a matter of context and whether a feature is to be successful in a GT game depends entirely on the exact implementation.
I'd rather read about how GT could (even hypothetically) expand to a more open format than why it shouldn't even try.

A final example: I'm not over in the Story-mode thread decrying the idea based on how I thought the Race Driver games got a bit silly as they progressed (also dudebro), or that GT is a player-driven experience and shouldn't need to hold our hands etc., because those things are potentially irrelevant provided PD can innovate something in keeping with GT's overall theme: "we love cars"*.

* "The Real Driving Simulator" was printed on the original GT's insert, and I've always considered it more a statement of intent rather than a statement of actuality. With GPL releasing more or less at the same time in Europe, I actually scoffed at the idea of this console "simulator". Until I saw why it was so different...

 

[Zuku]

I feel like it'd be cool, but save it for GT6 as that seems like a huge project for PD.

Like other people say bringing back more tracks upgrading standards to premiums are pretty much all I want. Up until Gran Turismo 6 of course.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Why not in GT6, GT Life can be a city free roam, based on how GT1 to GT4 had their interfaces. Especially GT4's interface by the way. Who wouldn't want free roam to be a new GT Life mode for GT6?

The Dealerships, the Airport, GT Auto which should have livery editor and paint together, the Tuning Shop which should have body kits added with tuning parts, and more. These places can be lotcated everywhere in the city for explorers to find.

Edited: I also forgot to add Wheels Shop, like how GT2 had it. Or just add it in GT Auto.

 

[analog]

Regarding "preaching to the converted", did you really mean something like "talking to a brick wall"? If not, I accept that there are plenty of people who can visualise what a GT game with a more "open" feel would be like, which is why I said what I said.
We should be talking about what a free roam mode would be like in the context of GT, not how making GT more like another game inherently makes it more like that game!
A similar thing happened in the "motorbikes in GT" thread, where the curt, dismissive responses, and subsequent reactions, just overwhelmed it.

I basically meant that whatever is written, there's always those who bring up those other arcade examples regardless, and asking them to be more openminded and perhaps get their heads around the idea it can be different, seems to be a futile pursuit most of the time (maybe I'm just more cynical than you ).
I didn't mean we shouldn't discuss the potential of new aspects just because of that obviously.
That "motorbikes in GT" thread is the perfect example of what I meant, some just made a blunt statement without any solid reasoning or explanation and left when you'd ask them for specifics or when you'd try to counterargue it.

Obviously you can't expect everyone to be equally enthusiastic about a new feauture (on the contrary) and I fully respect a well written objection which argues why it shouldn't be included, but the arcade-argument isn't based on anything as the physics aren't what's debated here.

Thankfully there are more than plenty who are openminded, and more than plenty who're able to oppose it using more than one short sentence (even though I've yet to hear a convincing argument against the idea itself).

 

[Griffith500]

Yeah, I agree about the general dearth of reasoned objection.

It's hard to do, though, and when I first saw that "Story Mode" thread and read a few posts, I did in my mind go "Nooo!". I've since thought about it, and the general idea of structured progression (at least as a separate mode) does align with some of my "unscratched itches", shall we say, but now I can't be bothered to wade through it all to find the interesting stuff!

Anyway, about free roam:
I once used to think (about the time GT2 came out) that there should be a "GT City"-type thing where you could drive to GT Auto, or to East City and to each dealer, but now I think that comes under what I mentioned of Burnout Paradise and NFSU2 as "getting in the way" of the game itself. At least if you make it mandatory, like it is in those games.

Instead, it would be good if there was a small "hub" where these things are sort of concentrated in one place, or maybe several of them spread out over the open world and their use is entirely conditional upon actually entering the free-roam mode (i.e. there would still be a traditional menu system, too)

I'm imagining a new pit interface where you could tweak your car's setup / parts etc. without any loading screens, then drive another few laps, (or in free roam, a short loop of road to come to another, or back to the same, hub) and be able to make more changes in the "pits". Something like that, streamlining whilst adding functionality / convenience, might work well.

 

[analog]

I've thought about a similar "GT City" as you mention it, which basically ends up being nothing more than a 3D-environment style menu I guess, and the novelty will probably quickly wear off and it becomes a chore with increased loading times, etc.

It could perhaps be best implemented as a separate game mode (like GT-Life/Arcade/Track Editor currently are) consisting of a map or maps where you can import cars to use from the main game or even a completely separate game (like Forza Horizon) considering those maps will probably use a lot of data which'll only be useful if you actually use free roam (that's perhaps another reason I understand them creating another game just for free roam).

As for those pit areas, gas stations (like the ones used on the Tuscan themed roads) scattered over the maps could provide these 'hubs' perhaps.

 

[Griffith500]

Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking about - although, perhaps in the context of what I've written below, the hubs proper might need a bit more flesh than that, and have occasional gas station type points on the interstitial routes as "escape" and "join" points for convenience, especially online.

I've also thought about having all the tracks in the game linked via this open world, too. I.e., if you wanted to, you could drive from the Nürburgring to Rome on an abridged version of the sorts of roads you get in between - we have the Eifel and Toscana course generator themes, plus we have Eiger and those Swiss-alps-lookie-likie teasers from the various Toyota 86 trailers etc. It could be possible to have a staple of interesting routes linked together, either a fixed choice or a random one each time (or a choice of either method.) Additionally, at each hub you could choose to take either a "motorway" section, winding main roads, or some real twisty stuff, as appropriate. You could even, potentially, do an online road trip!

As I said, these routes could so easily be "all killer no filler" if presented in the right way, and if made by PD themselves. Another option is to go the "LBP route" and have a catalogue of, say, Bern to Eiger routes that other players have made (with the correct theme), and you can select from those at each hub (Bern and Eiger in this example). What's especially interesting is that GT5's "Grand Tour" special event was sort of an approximation of this kind of thing already.

GT5 already has impressive streaming tech in it, so it would only need a bit of tweaking to make sure that "hubs" and portions of the routes themselves can be displayed at the same time, but that's not necessary if suitable generic "screening" devices can be employed (like tunnels, as a crude example).


If it needs a separate game, then I'm quite happy to see the "resources" shuffled in that direction. It's a fascinating concept, even in the limited capacity I have to imagine it!
Now, having written all of that, I have the vague suspicion I've written it before...

 

[analog]

I also often have the feeling here I've written things before, and most likely because I did, so much for using your imagination eh?
There's indeed so much possible (which begs the question, should we imagine within current technological constraints or imagine freely and assuming the technology will eventually arrive sooner than later in this day and age?), I've read on this forum that the PS2 game Enthusia already had a self-generating highway section which generated new sections whilst you drove on it.

 

[Griffith500]

Yeah, that sort of thing is perfectly possible, and always has been as long as you can deal with the (lack of) scenery complexity. (Which I know I've said before!)

Given such randomly generated content is likely to be a bit dull, purely as a driving road (think of the level of tweaking already required in a course generator track), there should still be a default PD-made section for each "route", and / or the community-made options, all on top of a fully-random mode - the latter maybe in the form of a "wilderness" location for each theme, or something.
Now that I think about it, isn't there a (non-realtime) random mode for course generator tracks online? I've never used it!


Something I've seen hinted at in discussions is the idea of opening up the city tracks (in fact, I let myself get a bit over-excited at the prospect of this when those Rome screens were first released for GT5) to use as a sort of free-roam area in itself. Motegi has recently re-ignited this idea, too, I've noticed.
I guess this is what I'd term a hub, along with, perhaps, the photomode locations in some way (no doubt there are more on the way). So you leave the Nürburgring, i.e. physically drive out of the circuit, and drive up to the castle itself for a photoshoot, then drive the aforementioned abridged route down to Rome, where you have free reign over the modeled areas, sans frontières, and can also take photos etc. All seamlessly, of course, using the streaming the engine is already capable of.
The open track layouts in LFS added more than I'd ever have thought they would before trying them (combined with the autocross editor, it's genius), so it'd be great just to see that single addition in the next GT anyway, as a sort of stopgap test, maybe.

Anyway, that can't be the only way of doing free roam in GT. There must be some other imaginings out there!

 

[analog]

Now that I think about it, isn't there a (non-realtime) random mode for course generator tracks online? I've never used it!

Actually it's pretty limited (and it's not like you're describing it), you can generate a track (in the lounge/or by the host) using fewer parameters than the regular course generator and the end results are rarely worth shouting about, only occasionally it produces an interesting track, most are a bit meh (which might actually be a good thing since you can't save them once you stumble upon a really good one ).

Having said that, there's one unique element which is that you can race them without anyone having driven it before, which removes the advantage of the creator (using the regular tool) and can be a huge challenge to race straight away without anyone practicing.
And with challenge I mean complete carnage ensuing most of the times.

 

[Earth]

My question to the free roam guys: Would you still want free roam if the GT6 track editor allowed randomly generated point to point races with roads 20+ miles long, complete with a great variety of scenery of your choice?

 

[analog]

My question to the free roam guys: Would you still want free roam if the GT6 track editor allowed randomly generated point to point races with roads 20+ miles long, complete with a great variety of scenery of your choice?

They're still basically different things, and needn't be mutually exclusive either.
I'd love what you're describing and it would surely mean a completely new racing experience or even just to casually drive on.
But, after 20+ miles the road ends, which is fine as an end destination for a race, but in a free roam environment the road never ends (and there's no destination either).
And why only roads in the first place? I'm hoping GT6 will include more 4x4 machinery and just exploring some offroad sections seems more suitable for these cars than only going offroad on closed rallytracks.

Another thing is that you could possibly combine a course creator tool with a free roam map, making them essentially user-created environments (you pick the scenery/backdrop and design the road lay-out, etc.) and perhaps the ability to link them with other user-created maps (through some 'tunnel' disguised as, well, a tunnel) which in potential could provide a huge, no humongous, series of endless roads to drive on.
Ofcourse I'm not hindered by any technological knowledge so I haven't got a clue if that's even possible to do.

 

[Earth]

They're still basically different things, and needn't be mutually exclusive either.
I'd love what you're describing and it would surely mean a completely new racing experience or even just to casually drive on.
But, after 20+ miles the road ends, which is fine as an end destination for a race, but in a free roam environment the road never ends (and there's no destination either).
And why only roads in the first place? I'm hoping GT6 will include more 4x4 machinery and just exploring some offroad sections seems more suitable for these cars than only going offroad on closed rallytracks.

Another thing is that you could possibly combine a course creator tool with a free roam map, making them essentially user-created environments (you pick the scenery/backdrop and design the road lay-out, etc.) and perhaps the ability to link them with other user-created maps (through some 'tunnel' disguised as, well, a tunnel) which in potential could provide a huge, no humongous, series of endless roads to drive on.
Ofcourse I'm not hindered by any technological knowledge so I haven't got a clue if that's even possible to do.

Good points 👍

I've voted no on every freeroam topic that has appeared, but I admit I am warming up to the idea. I think it probably would be pretty cool to have vast open roads with no end to drive your car on and maybe with others as well. And user generated free roam maps ?

In Gran Turismo 5 the closest thing we have to an open road experience is the Nurburgring and it's too narrow and twisty to really give a feeling of an open road, it's still very much a closed racecourse.

I can see a free roam passing through a city but I dont want it to be based in a city. A city is too tight and slows you down too much. A free roam road can have a hairpin or two but I'd prefer it be full of high speed sweeping corners, but theres always room for certain roads to be full of tight twisty corners

The following video is a perfect example of what I'd like to see. Notice from :35-:50 you blast quickly through a city and then from :50 to 1:40 it's a full throttle blast with nice elevation changes and a small town in close proximity which increases the feeling of speed. If PD implemented freeroam with roads/areas like this and others from Need for Speed II, count me in!



Good idea for how a free roam area designed for rally or 4x4 cars could look like, from pavement to dirt to snow

 

[jpressley101]

PD could spend its time and money on better things like content, physics, and overall realistic feel. Although it could be argued that free roam would make the game more realistic, I think it would ultimately be out of the game's purpose, which is racing. Stick to the racing part of the game, make the racing experience better (and more realistic), and avoid wasting time on other fluff.

 

[Zuku]

@ jpressley101

Thing is you say it's racing while I could say it's just driving and enjoying the experience of the cars.

This is probably the first time I've really been engaged in the forums, but this is something I've noticed people saying a lot lately while I'd lurk around(which means I didn't log on) that they consider GT a racing game that is. When truthfully it's more a little of everything in one package is what I meant to add on.

 

[Earth]

PD could spend its time and money on better things like content, physics, and overall realistic feel. Although it could be argued that free roam would make the game more realistic, I think it would ultimately be out of the game's purpose, which is racing. Stick to the racing part of the game, make the racing experience better (and more realistic), and avoid wasting time on other fluff.

You can still race in free roam.

Take for example the sandbox "free roam" game Burnout Paradise. To initiate a race all the drivers must meet at a certain point. And then they race to another point. First one there wins.

The name "free roam" gives off a bad impression. I think "cruise" or "free cruise" sounds better. "Roam" makes it sound pointless.

Also free roam shouldn't take too much extra manpower to develop. All we want is miles upon miles of road and generic scenery, preferably randomly generated by the user/game. Alot of textures and objects can be reused. Because the roads are fictional PD does not have to spend extra time modeling real life locations perfectly.

The question is does PD incorporate free roam as part of Gran Turismo 6, or do they make a standalone game like Forza Horizons. I would hope they would make it part of GT6 as I dont feel like switching between two games. Adding a free roam mode and a livery editor would almost single-handedly ensure that GT6 is a runaway success.

 

[RedPartyhat]

IT IS POSSIBLE TO FREE ROAM JUST JOIN A LOBBY THAT SAYS "FREE RUN" OR SOMETHING.
Right?