GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[sems4arsenal]

Odd then that none of that came through in the last two versions of the game and, according to many, still is not present in v1.06 and is, in their opinion, going backwards, 3.5 years into the life cycle of the current console.

I agree with you but they're obviously still tweaking it. Point is they already know what's lacking because they have much more experience than most of us. Knowing what's lacking and fixing it is another thing entirely.

I disagree that they've gone backwards though.

 

[bokimoto]

... Then you have others saying the more they drive the more they like it, ....

Stockholm Syndrome.

The more they adapt to the way the game behaves, the better it works for them ... no surprise.

v1.06 is an improvement, but has not solved the driving dynamics problem.
The driving physics are weak. The cars don't shift their weight, pivot, or grip like they should. Driving inputs do not have an effect on the feel of the car that they should. People describe it as 'floating'.
Add to that, the forced 'SRF' or whatever you want to call it, and you have a package that does not drive accurately,
does not give you the correct result for your inputs.

Yes, you can adapt to it, and 'like' it, ... but it sets you up to have to switch your brain, hands, and feet back to proper discipline for driving in other games that behave properly.

 

[ImaRobot]

I agree with you but they're obviously still tweaking it. Point is they already know what's lacking because they have much more experience than most of us. Knowing what's lacking and fixing it is another thing entirely.

I disagree that they've gone backwards though.

I'm not so sure that's how it works though, because if all this experience means that they know what they're doing, wouldn't that mean that there should have been something better set up from the get go, with less tweaking, without any confusion? I believe they need all the input they can get, to be honest, because the main part of this is that its a game and things can be missed. That is why changes are happening, because of input.

 

[sems4arsenal]

I'm not so sure that's how it works though, because if all this experience means that they know what they're doing, wouldn't that mean that there should have been something better set up from the get go, with less tweaking, without any confusion? I believe they need all the input they can get, to be honest, because the main part of this is that its a game and things can be missed. That is why changes are happening, because of input.

I'm not sure why they're struggling with it. Maybe they aren't able to fully simulate it yet (hopefully it's in the final build) or maybe it simply isn't a priority for them.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'm not sure why they're struggling with it. Maybe they aren't able to fully simulate it yet (hopefully it's in the final build) or maybe it simply isn't a priority for them.

Can be multiple things, it can be intentional or unintentional. That's why these beta's exist, to find these issues. Just because they have experience in real world doesn't mean they'll always get it to translate 100%.

 

[WhoosierGirl]

There's a real disconnect in forum feedback regarding the FFB and how the wheel feels in game. You've got some of the above, which to me mimics previous games, with a floaty and disconnected feeling, especially in relation to other games with solid FFB like AC. Then you have others saying the more they drive the more they like it, when I see people saying the game is practically unplayable now on the G series wheels. Very baffling to someone without the game.

The unfortunate disconnect is from the game to my wheel, wish it was not the case but, every update has been a disappointment.

I agree with @BrainsBush assessment of the game as it is now.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Can be multiple things, it can be intentional or unintentional. That's why these beta's exist, to find these issues. Just because they have experience in real world doesn't mean they'll always get it to translate 100%.

I agree with this but I'm sure they already know.

 

[ImaRobot]

I agree with this but I'm sure they already know.

If they already know then there wouldn't be a point for the beta, outside of just getting people hyped. That's obviously not the case, considering the time frame this beta has been going on, as well as the large updates that have been coming around.

 

[sems4arsenal]

If they already know then there wouldn't be a point for the beta, outside of just getting people hyped. That's obviously not the case, considering the time frame this beta has been going on, as well as the large updates that have been coming around.

My point is regarding the FFB only and that they don't need us telling them it isn't good. They should know already.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Meant that between the two, they've had tons of experience with actual racecars so they ought to know what good FFB is like.

Why haven't they been able to use their expertise is anyone's guess, but I'm pretty sure they know what's lacking.

Lucas yes. Kaz races a handful of times a year, if that. No disrespect — I don't expect him to be racing full-time! But there are most certainly players with more on-track experience.

To suggest player input isn't as important sort of goes against the entire point of the beta, really.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Lucas yes. Kaz races a handful of times a year, if that. No disrespect — I don't expect him to be racing full-time! But there are most certainly players with more on-track experience.

To suggest player input isn't as important sort of goes against the entire point of the beta, really.

The point being made earlier was that feedback from the players has been mixed (some praising, some not so much), so my point is people with race experience should be the ones to listen too (in some aspects like FFB). Kaz may not have raced as much as people here, but he did pilot some of the cars that are in the game (as does Lucas) so there is no one better qualified to compare for example the FFB of the real M6 GT3 to the one in the game.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

I had a nightmare day yesterday (crashed car to sort out, hire car to arrange, mobile died and youngest needed me as a taxi all evening).

I hope to give it a good go tonight.

Hope everything is better now for you! 👍

 

[Haitauer]

Agree with the FFB statements.

GR3 at Blue Moon bay are slower since the update, probably less grip.

Gr.4 at Brands I was able to go immediately faster with my Rocco and it could be a result of more front end grip (less understeer).

There's a real disconnect in forum feedback regarding the FFB and how the wheel feels in game. You've got some of the above, which to me mimics previous games, with a floaty and disconnected feeling, especially in relation to other games with solid FFB like AC. Then you have others saying the more they drive the more they like it, when I see people saying the game is practically unplayable now on the G series wheels. Very baffling to someone without the game.

Odd then that none of that came through in the last two versions of the game and, according to many, still is not present in v1.06 and is, in their opinion, going backwards, 3.5 years into the life cycle of the current console.

Stockholm Syndrome.

The more they adapt to the way the game behaves, the better it works for them ... no surprise.

v1.06 has not solved the driving dynamics problem.
The driving physics are weak. The cars don't shift their weight, pivot, or grip like they should. Driving inputs do not have an effect on the feel of the car that they should. People describe it as 'floating'.
Add to that, the forced 'SRF' or whatever you want to call it, and you have a package that does not drive accurately,
does not give you the correct result for your inputs.

Yes, you can adapt to it, and 'like' it, ... but it sets you up to have to switch your brain, hands, and feet back to proper discipline for driving in other games that behave properly.

My point is regarding the FFB only and that they don't need us telling them it isn't good. They should know already.

The point being made earlier was that feedback from the players has been mixed

Random FFB quotes there.

My opinion is that before giving general opinion one should try multiple cars, classes and drivetrains. I noticed gr3 GTR is terrible as it is very floaty light like theres no ffb where gr3 458 feels pretty good. Evora felt like a tank and TT and Genesis n300 were fine. Also have noticed the setup of the car has some effect on ffb. All this from the G29. Would it be ok if people would tell which wheel they use when commenting on ffb?

My quick impressions on physics is that theres possibly less sideways grip and eighter more grip when braking or then the abs works more effectively as braking distances seem to be shorter. Just a hunch though..

Cars definetely spin easier and more degrees, but as long as certain point is not passed slide seems to be easy to hold/correct.

It is a step to right direction, but some problems in ffb of some cars.

 

[GordonS]

Like @Haitauer said, comparison is word for the moment.
I raced all the Nür races, two first with the Lancer and the last one with the Audi.
Audi's wheel feel is better. Not as edgy as the Lancer's.
I can imagine the rattle the Lancer 'offers' with Logitech wheels at the moment. I use the T300RS.

 

[BrainsBush]

Like I wrote in certain other threads at a certain point you want some communication from PD/Sony. Yes it it their beta and we are happy to be able to participate in this beta but it would be nice to know if PD implemented different FBB/physic models per car and let us test it. Otherwise we still make too much assumptions and create half truths ourselves.

Now it looks like we have to test each car and one car could respond better on FBB/physics then another car?? I just want them all the be good/perfect. Or - again - communicate that cars have different physic models implemented.
I have driven a couple of cars and generic it feels all off the same as described in my earlier post. And if PD wants us to test more in depth per car then communicate/ask that to us.

Sounds reasonable or not?

 

[Haitauer]

Like I wrote in certain other threads at a certain point you want some communication from PD/Sony. Yes it it their beta and we are happy to be able to participate in this beta but it would be nice to know if PD implemented different FBB/physic models per car and let us test it. Otherwise we still make too much assumptions and create half truths ourselves.

Now it looks like we have to test each car and one car could respond better on FBB/physics then another car?? I just want them all the be good/perfect. Or - again - communicate that cars have different physic models implemented.
I have driven a couple of cars and generic it feels all off the same as described in my earlier post. And if PD wants us to test more in depth per car then communicate/ask that to us.

Sounds reasonable or not?

I also find it some what challenging to test the physics as a whole as changing even part of cars setup makes truthfully huge impact on how the car feels. Its great the setups are responsive, but makes me think how different my own or player x's opinion would be with different setup. For exaple i have Praianos and Lord Protectors gr3 GTR setups side by side and it feels like utterly different car and on top of that i am able to tweak the setups to my liking by changing how weight transfers, changing how much pressure dampers or spings give to the wheel, how much antiroll bars limit the bodyroll or one side tire lift.

Just a massive massive impact how the car and physics feel..

In exaple how cars allow using curbs. Put that rear antiroll high/stiff and hitting rear wheel over curb sends you all over the place as turning it few clicks softer and theres no problem doing the same as antiroll allows one wheel to lift without lightening the car..

 

[ImaRobot]

I also find it some what challenging to test the physics as a whole as changing even part of cars setup makes truthfully huge impact on how the car feels. Its great the setups are responsive, but makes me think how different my own or player x's opinion would be with different setup

That's why all tests should be done with completely stock, out of the box settings that are provided from the game. It's how I figure anyone is doing it, otherwise it skews the results. I'd imagine the ones regularly doing things like this keep that in mind.

I can all but remove the Lift-Off oversteer present in FWD vehicles and make it an understeering pig(even more so than some already are ) if I tuned it out, you're correct, but different cars of the same drive type's typically don't have wildly varying results in default form.

 

[Scaff]

Random FFB quotes there.

My opinion is that before giving general opinion one should try multiple cars, classes and drivetrains. I noticed gr3 GTR is terrible as it is very floaty light like theres no ffb where gr3 458 feels pretty good. Evora felt like a tank and TT and Genesis n300 were fine. Also have noticed the setup of the car has some effect on ffb. All this from the G29. Would it be ok if people would tell which wheel they use when commenting on ffb?

My quick impressions on physics is that theres possibly less sideways grip and eighter more grip when braking or then the abs works more effectively as braking distances seem to be shorter. Just a hunch though..

Cars definetely spin easier and more degrees, but as long as certain point is not passed slide seems to be easy to hold/correct.

It is a step to right direction, but some problems in ffb of some cars.

I've run it with a few different cars from each class now and its certainly a bit easier to lose the back end of cars, and the hand of god, while still very present has been watered down a bit.

So that's the good news.

What the hell have they done to the FFB? Its bloody awful!

Everything feels even lighter and less connected to the track that before and this utter bizarre shaking via the wheel once you are under-steering is utterly stupid. I can only imagine how much worse it must feel with a gear driven wheel, as its distracting and annoying enough on my T300. It also bears no resemblance to anything at all that happens in reality. Who the hell signed this off for even Beta testing?

Oh and the Focus ST is now an utter piece of crap, with the steering and the car not having a thing to do with each other. What is in reality a stunningly communicative car for FWD has been turned into a frustrating mess.

Pings improved however, driving standards haven't.


I have more but I want to review the video capture and put more though into it.

 

[Firehuntah]

You sum it up pretty nicely there @Scaff.

You were wondering what it's like on a gear driven wheel? Look no further. I made a video of it to show on the beta forums to hopefully get it fixed as soon as possible. I really don't like driving with it anymore right now. So yeah, bloody awful indeed.

 

[BrainsBush]

You sum it up pretty nicely there @Scaff.

You were wondering what it's like on a gear driven wheel? Look no further. I made a video of it to show on the beta forums to hopefully get it fixed as soon as possible. I really don't like driving with it anymore right now. So yeah, bloody awful indeed.

wow....hopefully solved soonish. Feel sorry for the physics/FBB developers. They sure work very hard but now they even have a lot of extra homework to do. I cannot imagine they use a kind of 'try and error' method. They work according to a rigorous test plan?

So far it seems we all more or less mean the same with the fbb/physics 'feeling' after 1.06

 

[praiano63]

You sum it up pretty nicely there @Scaff.

You were wondering what it's like on a gear driven wheel? Look no further. I made a video of it to show on the beta forums to hopefully get it fixed as soon as possible. I really don't like driving with it anymore right now. So yeah, bloody awful indeed.

Horrible. Finishing the download tonight and check this by myself.

 

[Firehuntah]

wow....hopefully solved soonish. Feel sorry for the physics/FBB developers. They sure work very hard but now they even have a lot of extra homework to do. I cannot imagine they use a kind of 'try and error' method. They work according to a rigorous test plan?

So far it seems we all more or less mean the same with the fbb/physics 'feeling' after 1.06

Yeah I feel sorry for them too, but then again it feels like they just pushed this update without even giving it a try themselves. You instantly feel and hear it in the very first corner you take with a wheel. And they should really try it with all the wheel options they have in the menu. They would've seen the problem right away, especially with the G29.

Horrible. Finishing the download tonight and check this by myself.

G29 as well? Good luck and have fun. In all seriousness though, please do let us know your experience with it.

 

[Scaff]

You sum it up pretty nicely there @Scaff.

You were wondering what it's like on a gear driven wheel? Look no further. I made a video of it to show on the beta forums to hopefully get it fixed as soon as possible. I really don't like driving with it anymore right now. So yeah, bloody awful indeed.

That's just horrible and it cant be good for the wheel.

 

[Haitauer]

That's why all tests should be done with completely stock, out of the box settings that are provided from the game. It's how I figure anyone is doing it, otherwise it skews the results. I'd imagine the ones regularly doing things like this keep that in mind.

I can all but remove the Lift-Off oversteer present in FWD vehicles and make it an understeering pig(even more so than some already are ) if I tuned it out, you're correct, but different cars of the same drive type's typically don't have wildly varying results in default form.

Not using stock setups here.. Most of the cars feel very numb and unresponsive with the stock setup..

 

[ImaRobot]

Not using stock setups here.. Most of the cars feel very numb and unresponsive with the stock setup..

Well then you should be using stock set-ups when testing vehicles if you're trying to find the games representation of the real world.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well then you should be using stock set-ups when testing vehicles if you're trying to find the games representation of the real world.

Unfortunately, that's impossible since Arcade mode was locked out.

 

[Haitauer]

Well then you should be using stock set-ups when testing vehicles if you're trying to find the games representation of the real world.

Im interested in what the game is capable of.. Not how the vanilla feels. But I get your point.

 

[sems4arsenal]

You sum it up pretty nicely there @Scaff.

You were wondering what it's like on a gear driven wheel? Look no further. I made a video of it to show on the beta forums to hopefully get it fixed as soon as possible. I really don't like driving with it anymore right now. So yeah, bloody awful indeed.

Oh wow. This needs fixing ASAP. It's much less harsh with the T300.

 

[ImaRobot]

Im interested in what the game is capable of.. Not how the vanilla feels. But I get your point.

Huh? You've completely lost me.

Your original post stated that people testing physics might have varying results because changing the tune can drastically change the reaction you'd get from a vehicle, making it hard for people to accurately test and compare physics. Which my reply pointed out as long as everyone uses stock set-ups, than its removes that issue.

I'm not sure the relevance your post has to what is being discussed.

Unfortunately, that's impossible since Arcade mode was locked out.

Ah, thats a shame.

 

[Haitauer]

Huh? You've completely lost me.

Your original post stated that people testing physics might have varying results because changing the tune can drastically change the reaction you'd get from a vehicle, making it hard for people to accurately test and compare physics. Which my reply pointed out as long as everyone uses stock set-ups, than its removes that issue.

I'm not sure the relevance your post has to what is being discussed.




Ah, thats a shame.

I mean one can make the car feel more real by changing setups.

Im trying to make the car feel as good as i can and the difference is substantial.