GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[Front]

I'd like to mention somthing about the 'realism' in GT4 this set of circumstances are completely fictional, but it happens in racing....

your coming to the dipper bend in Bathurst, you coming in way too fast and way too wide you swing in to correct, oversteering your car you clip the wall... with the momentum and the fact it's a pretty steep turn your car flips. rolls over and lands on it's wheels facing the outter wall... you reverse and continue on your merry way (or the suspension is broke ooops).....

let's see what happens in Forza:

1. Rubber would be left down somewhere due to the hard braking.
2. The Car would take damage rolling and also leave paintwork on the barricade.
3. Parts of your body that fell off would be there next time you pass (if you pass)
4. The Car would actually roll.
5. The Car has reverse lights so when you reverse they switch on if there working that is.
6. reduced performace (if you get going again)

let's see what happens in GT4:

1. you get a blurry screen with a penalty driving at 50kph

it's not possible (skids, damage, rolling, reverse lights)


Now for the "Real Driving Simulator" it's not very real..

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Driving Simulation: Yes
Crashing Simulation:No

And what is it with the reverse light fixation...whats all the fuss

And Front, you created this thread and asked for our opinions on Forza, but it seems that you have a pretty strong one of your own. Below is from the third post in the thread.

I like how force feedback is on Forza and not on GT4

1. it's obvious you want Forza.

Just buy it ok

 

[_aj]

If the parts are still on the track when you return again, then the officials need a kick up the ass as that's an accident waiting to happen and would never happen in real racing. Also it says "Real Driving Simulator" (not Simulation you muppet) not "Real Racing Simulator" so in that retrospect GT is the best "Driving" simulator as in handling, body movement, physics etc...

Also I think in this thread we should stop comparing PC Sims to console sims as we all know that PC's can do more calculations and **** than a console. Also there may be big racing communities for PC Sims but most (not all) people on consoles wanna pick up and play or just pass the time not spend 24 hours in front of their machine talking about their system specs, mods or other boring PC crap I have seen, don't get me wrong not all PC online games are like that but it's as if the associated stereotype is actually true!!

Anyway GT vs. Forza the way I see it they'll be good for each other, even though they're on different consoles, the rivalry will still be their which is great for the gamers as each iteration will get better, add more from the other and implement new ideas!!

Gentleman start your engines !!

We won't know the full features of each game until they come out and people test it out for themselves, only then will complaints and praises be spoken, until then we only have tidbits from each to go on and you can't tell much from them.

 

[Front]

i'm actually concidering buying GT4 more than forza but you guys have attacked Forza's graphics, so i'd thought i'd attack GT4's physics... this is discussion on Forza vs GT4 not on what game I want the most both have good and bad points...... and at the end of the day it's a discussuion.

Driving Simulation: Yes
Crashing Simulation:No

Crashing goes hand in hand with driving.....

I like how force feedback is on Forza and not on GT4

1. it's obvious you want Forza.

And if you look at my original post I changed it..... slight oversight on my part 💡

so in that retrospect GT is the best "Driving" simulator as in handling, body movement, physics etc...

I fail to see how a GT can be concidered The best driving simulator especially since the cars seem to defy the laws of physics (you can't tip the car)

 

[_aj]

Most people have attacked Forza's graphics because well basically they have a cartoon look to them and some of the cars look like they have polished chrome as bodywork. If you can't see that then I don't know what but I'm sure Forza will improve these things unless they're going for a Codemasters Race Driver 2/GT look.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Crashing goes hand in hand with driving.....

Not if you are any good...

couldn't resist that.

Yes, there are some serious Fan Boys here, I can only apologise. Most of us were trying to be fair.

Edit: Tipping a car is not driving it!! If you owned a £125,000 Ferrari, would you want to see if you could tip it on its roof...

 

[Front]

Not if you are any good...

couldn't resist that.

Yes, there are some serious Fan Boys here, I can only apologise. Most of us were trying to be fair.

Edit: Tipping a car is not driving it!! If you owned a £125,000 Ferrari, would you want to see if you could tip it on its roof...

Even the best of the best crash and tip there car somtimes it's not there fault it happens, It's part of racing why do you think people watch NASCAR

 

[_aj]

Umm just seen some pics I haven't seen of Forza before and I takeback the cartoon look I guess those screenshots just looked bad. Still the body looks flat colourwise but again it's almost a certainty that will change. Look before you speak !!

 

[Tacet_Blue]

why do you think people watch NASCAR

Yes, I've often wondered that....left...left....left

Only teasing, no need to bomb me!

In fact these days I only watch the first bend of the F1 and hope there will be a crash of some sort just to make it more interesting, so fair point.

 

[Front]

it's strange how you always pick the worst pictures to represent Forza I could spend weeks going through GT4 pictures and posting hundreads that in my opinion looked crap.... but i'm not going too..

I'm talking about the Physics and it just seems to be going full circle everytime any time somthing is said about GT4 you dont like it goe's back to graphics (rather pathetic).

 

[Pak]

Gran Turismo: The Real Driving Simulator? HELL NO!
GT has unrealistic handling and physics, you can drift with the lister storm or the standard JGTC cars, you can apply full throttle without the risk of losing control etc.
I hope GT4 will have better handling. :/

 

[_aj]

umm.. Front read what I said. And what's so good about the image you posted anyway?

 

[Front]

Gran Turismo: The Real Driving Simulator? HELL NO!
GT has unrealistic handling and physics, you can drift with the lister storm or the standard JGTC cars, you can apply full throttle without the risk of losing control etc.
I hope GT4 will have better handling. :/

I've heard people saying similar things on other boards..... i've never played any of the GT series how accurate is the physics in the GT series...

 

[Rocket Punch]

Gran Turismo: The Real Driving Simulator? HELL NO!
GT has unrealistic handling and physics, you can drift with the lister storm or the standard JGTC cars, you can apply full throttle without the risk of losing control etc.
I hope GT4 will have better handling. :/

1: GT has unrealistic handling and physics - It might be true but it is definitely the best "unrealistic handling and physics" driving game ever made since the beginning of mankind.

2: you can drift with the lister storm or the standard JGTC cars - so you mean you know it can't be done for a fact? or you are just guessing?

3: you can apply full throttle without the risk of losing control etc. - I don't even know what you mean here, but obviously you really don't know how to play this game.

4: I hope GT4 will have better handling - I think they will and will once again set a new benchmark for the most "unrealistic handling and physics" driving game ever made since the beginning of mankind.

 

[DevilGTx]

Wow. Lots of brainwashed people here.
Somehow, this has turned into a discussion about crashing?
I do not think there is any way to accurately model a crash in any video game...too many variables. Besides, the idea is NOT to crash.
If the physics in Forza are so good, it is probably because they are sitting around and saying, "Well, we need to work on that spinout because it doesn't look quite as good as Gran Turismo."
And why do you say "unrealistic" physics? Explain, please.
I have never played a driving game with more control and better feel of realism than GT...Pro Race Driver comes very close...Codemasters has been at it a long time, and I look forward to TOCA: RD2 (soon out for XBox, later enhanced version for PS2).
Also, any car can be made to drift, even real-life race cars like JGTC, even F1.

 

[Dave A]

What pak meant about drifting cars in GT3 is that you allply full power half way round a bend and the car goes into a nice controlable drift, in real life if you put your foot to the floor half way round a corner in a 450-500Bhp car, your gone.

 

[Pak]

1: GT has unrealistic handling and physics - It might be true but it is definitely the best "unrealistic handling and physics" driving game ever made since the beginning of mankind.

2: you can drift with the lister storm or the standard JGTC cars - so you mean you know it can't be done for a fact? or you are just guessing?

3: you can apply full throttle without the risk of losing control etc. - I don't even know what you mean here, but obviously you really don't know how to play this game.

4: I hope GT4 will have better handling - I think they will and will once again set a new benchmark for the most "unrealistic handling and physics" driving game ever made since the beginning of mankind.

Have you ever tried any racesims on PC like grand prix legends or live for speed? Hardcore sim games like papy's games, GTR and Geoff Crammonds GP are aimed at the public which see perfect simulation as gameplay.

2. Drifting in those cars like you can in GT is impossible.

3. I meant again that the handling is unrealistic, in GT it's too easy to control such a powerful car. In reality you should go more easy on the throttle when you steer a little.

4. GT has realistic handling/physics compared to other console games, yes. I hope PD comes close to PC sim physics, that way it's much more fun and rewarding to drive a lap around the nurburgring.

It's not strange that most cars don't have accurate physics in GT3, it has so many cars and it's not simulating one class like Grand Prix games or GTR.

BTW, I read somewhere that GT3 has an updated version of the GT2 physics engine, for GT4 PD build a completely new physics engine. Sounds promising.

 

[Rocket Punch]

What pak meant about drifting cars in GT3 is that you allply full power half way round a bend and the car goes into a nice controlable drift, in real life if you put your foot to the floor half way round a corner in a 450-500Bhp car, your gone.

But thats in drift mode and not using the control tires, right?

I played a bit of the GTR Demo game too, but some how I can't get my DFP steering to work with that game, but thats PC only right? Thats a pretty good game, it remined me a bit of the 355 challange Arcade by SEGA, but with way better graphics and content.

 

[Dave A]

No, I can drfit a JGTC car in GT3 with ease on racing tyres in the sim mode. Okay it's not as good or long a drift as the pro drifters can do here at GTP but the fact is that flooring a 500Bhp car like that will not result is slight oversteer that can be easilly countered it results a fast spin out and plenty of tyre smoke. As Pak said in his last post, the cars in GT are far too easy to control when putting the power down.

 

[Pak]

Yeah, that's why I think PD should include something like a difficulty option for sim mode. Easy, medium and simulation: Simulation only available to people with steering wheels and it should be as close to realitiy as possible. Something like that.

 

[incubusnb]

i'm curious Pak, do you play GT3 with ASM and TCS on or off?

if you play with it on, then your not playing the "real" physics, your playing an assisted physics for non-racers

turn it off then try to take a corner at 100% throttle

 

[Dave A]

I never race with TCS or ASM on exept in a couple of the F1 races where I put TCS on to a setting of 1 or 2. Even with thoes off you can still power a car through corners with relative ease, real life just isn't like that.

 

[Pak]

i'm curious Pak, do you play GT3 with ASM and TCS on or off?

if you play with it on, then your not playing the "real" physics, your playing an assisted physics for non-racers

turn it off then try to take a corner at 100% throttle

Yes All aids are off.
In the normal options menu and in car setup, ASM and TCS at 0.

 

[Zer0]

Yeah, that's why I think PD should include something like a difficulty option for sim mode. Easy, medium and simulation: Simulation only available to people with steering wheels and it should be as close to realitiy as possible. Something like that.

When you play GT4P with de DFP automatically the "arcade" assisted steering turns off.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46282

 

[JAGUAR]

When you play GT4P with de DFP automatically the "arcade" assisted steering turns off.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46282

I've played most of the PC sims and altough previous GT games were as realistic as you could get on a console they were 'easy'.

GT4P, with the Force Pro Wheel, is a completly different prospect. It is much closer to GPL in terms of driving style than previous GT games.

The points mentioned about flooring the throttle and not spinning out, steering assists etc. do not apply to GT4P. You really do have to drive much more realisticlally, and not just floor the trottle when exiting a corner.

Apparently the latest build of GT4 includes locking brakes and other improvements. It looks like GT4 will be the first GT game that will truly stand up to its sim tag.

Maybe the console player is now ready for a full on sim!

 

[Pak]

Need.... Gt4... :d

 

[erahk64]

Umm just seen some pics I haven't seen of Forza before and I takeback the cartoon look I guess those screenshots just looked bad. Still the body looks flat colourwise but again it's almost a certainty that will change. Look before you speak !!

Maybe those screenshots are from a older build.

Newer screens can be from older builds than the
previously released pictures since the sites wants people to visit their site
(it happened recently to Halo 2, see link http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=339949, and PGR 2).


This is probably closer to how the final cars will look.

 

[GT-One Lover]

....keep it simple:
GT4 will be a nearly PERFECT GAME with just lttle (but for a "NEARLY PERFECT" game) important details like the REVERSE LIGHTS;THE FIRE COMING OUT OF THE EXHAUSTES AND THE FLIP-OVERS!!!
but this are the facts which will show u that GT4 is in another dimension than "FORZA":
---500 very very very different and DETAILED cars(!!!)does "FORZA" have that much HE;HE???
---about 100(!!!!)tracks in a very very very detailed and precise way!does "FORZA" have that many he,he???
---history of very very very succesful game series!"FORZA" doen´t even have a history of succes!!!
---photo mode(u can´t find this mode in ANY GAME!!!)does "FORZA" have this he,he???

so someone said that the cars´ interior in "FORZA" were very detailed but decide what u would like more:
just a few cars with interior
or
many many many cars (from oldies to Formular 1 cars!) which have perhaps no interior but are very detailed!!!

hope this makes ur DECISION EASIER good luck and drive safely!!!

 

[kevil]

how can i download the video of nurburing?

 

[Dave A]

Quantity is irrelevant, quality is important, however quality quantity is the best, but if Forza's lower quantity is higher quality you have a serious competitor for GT4. We don't know if the quality makes up for the lower quantity, we can safely say GT4 will have quality quantity but we can't say if Forza's quality will be better or not.