GT5 Latest News & Discussion

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Please, if GT6 is the same revolution 2 was 1 and 4 was to 3, people will line up in droves.

Yes, and I would be one of them. I really hope it is a revolution as you describe, but if It's not, and it's another disappointment like GT5, then I can see it struggling a lot more than 5 did.

I brought it up because of your "I am out unless GT6 does" stance and assumed Forza would be one of you alternatives. A mistake perhaps, but nothing sinister. What I said may not imply to you, but it does to many at GT Planet.

Whether I buy Forza games or not has no bearing on whether I buy GT games. My 'I'm out' comment was simply that, if GT6 isn't up to scratch I won't buy it. The only bearing on me buying GT6 is GT6. If I buy a Forza game it's because I like that, and likewise if the next version of that wasn't up to scratch I wouldn't buy it. That wouldn't automatically mean I buy GT6 though, if both games aren't up to scratch i'll buy neither.

Ok, you are unhappy, fine. It's been 15 months or so since GT5 has released. Maybe it is time to move on.

I have moved on in terms of (not) playing the game anymore but I do like to procrastinate so here I am.
 
Yes, and I would be one of them. I really hope it is a revolution as you describe, but if It's not, and it's another disappointment like GT5, then I can see it struggling a lot more than 5 did.

Whether I buy Forza games or not has no bearing on whether I buy GT games. My 'I'm out' comment was simply that, if GT6 isn't up to scratch I won't buy it. The only bearing on me buying GT6 is GT6. If I buy a Forza game it's because I like that, and likewise if the next version of that wasn't up to scratch I wouldn't buy it. That wouldn't automatically mean I buy GT6 though, if both games aren't up to scratch i'll buy neither.

I have moved on in terms of (not) playing the game anymore but I do like to procrastinate so here I am.

If we go by the past, it most definitely will. GT5 for me is my favorite of the series due to driving, so I have overlooked the deficiencies in other areas. I believe since GT5 has that nearly perfect, GT6 will be all about the icing on the cake.

Honestly speaking, I truly believe some of the staunchest critics of GT5 will be won over by GT6's offering. Plus GT5 is still alive and breathing so we might be surprised!

Procrastination? Is that the best word for you? LOL
 
If PD hasn't given us a Sneak Peek of the upcoming DLC yet.... They must have something special in store for us..... Let's hope! :D
 
Well since you like numbers GT5 has sold less than all previous GT games, so doesn't that tell you more than just a few thousand weren't impressed with the final product? Like I say, sales of GT6 will be very interesting.

GT5 selling less than normal doesn't tell me that. The reason for this IMO is that the PS3 and 360 are very closely matched when it comes to loyal fans.

When GT3 & 4 came out, the PS2 was the console of choice for the majority of people therfore PD sold more games.

A lot of my friends jumped the Sony ship and went to the MSXBox when they launched the 3 & 360. One of them actually got me into GT1 and, forced me to learn witrh MT.
I still haven't forgiven them for choosing Bill :grumpy:

Forza is getting the upperhand on gt5 with that porsche dlc coming up.

bigwhoopwa128628122091859497.jpg


......I really hope it [GT6] is a revolution as you describe, but if It's not, and it's another disappointment like GT5, then I can see it struggling a lot more than 5 did.

It probably will be revoloutionary if we are to follw the historic records.

GT5 isn't that much of a disappointment, it depends how high your expectations were.

GT5 is struggling? Show me the facts and figures.

Whether I buy Forza games or not has no bearing on whether I buy GT games. My 'I'm out' comment was simply that, if GT6 isn't up to scratch I won't buy it. The only bearing on me buying GT6 is GT6. If I buy a Forza game it's because I like that, and likewise if the next version of that wasn't up to scratch I wouldn't buy it. That wouldn't automatically mean I buy GT6 though, if both games aren't up to scratch i'll buy neither.

Glad to see you can make decisions. Its a real skill.

I have moved on in terms of (not) playing the game anymore but I do like to procrastinate so here I am.

The fact that you aren't playing GT5 any more tells me that you are a flash in the pan gamer. There is so much life to this game online, 100's of rooms open all day everyday from all over the world doing all kinds of silly driving stuff. Loads of fun to be had.

Also, I think you've used procrastinate in the wrong context. What are you doing tomorrow that you should be doing today?
 
I know SimonK may come across as a bit of an incurable grump (sorry, SimonK), but his viewpoint is entirely valid, even if the justifications and accompanying accusations are, to my mind, unfair or unfounded. GT5 was missing the level of polish we've come to expect, and it didn't quite deliver on its promises, but it's still a great game despite these issues.
What I take issue with, and this isn't aimed at anyone in particular now, is this idea that PD / Kaz have mis-managed the game. I think this is indicative of a pertinent issue in gaming today, that idea of games moving away from a form of entertainment and "descending" (artistically, idealistically, mechanically etc.) into mere "services".

I'm going to make a comparison, it might seem pretentious, but I hope you bear with it. Take the master sculptor; she, by definition, must have a great eye, a fully developed "vision" if you will, that allows her to see the sculpture before she's even made it, and how exactly, by which steps etc., to get to that point, as well as possessing the craft and skills to actually follow that process and physically manifest her vision.
By rights, we should let her decide what she wants to make, after all she knows best how shape and form, texture and shading play against each other to give a "pleasing" result. (It's probably obvious at this point that I know nothing about sculpture; I doubt that invalidates the analogy, though.)
The danger is when we start commissioning works; i.e. when we start to treat her talents as a mere service for which we pay her. We have, by comparison, limited vision, especially with regards the actual process that achieves the manifestation of said vision. We are more likely to look at something and say "make me one of those", rather than let the sculptor take her own lead, to grant her the artistic licence to make her own interpretation of what we think we want, to give us something new and potentially interesting, or "great".


How does that relate to GT? Well, Kaz has his vision, as a games designer and massive car enthusiast, of what GT could be. By rights, he should be allowed to use his talents to drive the series in a direction the vast majority of us couldn't ever foresee. Instead what appears to be happening is that Kaz must instead now become an expert businessman, capable of delivering the services that are already in demand, rather than trying to innovate in a new direction, thus creating a new kind of demand (as he did with the original GT). Of course, everyone has their own little subset of demands, so it becomes a laborious and impossible task of trying to please everyone.
In that sense (catering for existing desires), GT5 fails miserably. However, and this is somewhat intangible now, I believe that GT5 is disappointing as it is because PD were overreaching in some way; they were unable to achieve what they were aiming for in a "suitable" timeframe (in terms of the service Sony are looking for). It is my hope that these things will become apparent in GT6 (I said it was intangible!) This idea of overreaching comes from Kaz's comments, and from the way certain new features have been implemented in GT5: e.g. weather (fully dynamic, procedural - in development since GT3?) and damage (again procedural, not "canned" - for better or worse), insane detail on Premiums etc.


Do we look at GT as a game - a form of entertainment, sort of like a movie - or do we look at it as a service, something we are entitled to because we've paid money for over time, like an internet connection? Do we reward creativity or "responsibility"?
You might think that Kaz has a duty to Sony, and to us, because we've enabled him to be in this position by giving him the money to make his games, but what's the point of employing somebody like Kaz, somebody with vision, when all that is "required" (by demand) is someone who can tick all the right boxes? Why would Sony have entrusted him to make GT in the first place, when there was no demand at that time for a game like that? Sony were obviously taking a "risk"; one that paid off big time. I think now there might be an internal conflict of interest, where Sony wants to milk the crap out of GT (by appealing to the "lowest common denominator", and filling every niche and void), whilst Kaz and PD just want to make the game they have in their heads. "Mis-management" is, to me, irrelevant and purely subjective when talking about creative freedom. I'd rather Kaz be given that freedom, than see him have to create the GT equivalent of CoD. In fact, I'd rather GT failed outright in pursuit of something different, than to regress to cloning itself and everything else out there.

This idea is probably conveniently exemplified by Peter Molyneux's recent departure from Microsoft, so he can go and make the games he wants, to take risks again, rather than do what Microsoft wants (filling niches and voids with Fable). I just hope Kaz doesn't start over-hyping like Molyneux has in recent times, though; "expect perfection" was, I think, an ill-advised rebuff to "definitive". If you're not a player, stay out of the game.


By the way: "procrastinating" has always meant "wasting time" to me; i.e. doing something other than what we "should" be. Clearly SimonK meant he's posting here instead of doing something more "worthwhile".
 
Long but great post! 👍

I'll not quote the whole thing, but your post was spot on. Perfect. It really makes sense.

But in MY humble opinion, I prefer to have the artist, the man with vision, taking care of the project.

I don't want GT becoming the next "need for speed". I'm playing all games from NFS franchise, from 1 to 5 (Porsche) again... the good times, when the games were really good. And what do we have now? A crapload filled with Michael Bay effects and cocky storylines.

Even if it's been frustrating in the last 4-5 years, I prefer to have the artist, the man with vision, taking a lot of time to deliver stuff, but when they do, they do it right.

I completely agree that they are in some sort of identity problem. They want to keep the original spirit, but now they have to cope with new demands, "as service"... and they'll take a while to have everything in the right place.
 
Honestly, I think from an idealistic standpoint, I'd rather Kaz were free to do as he pleased, too. Realistically, however, I think they need to strike some sort of balance, you know, to please everyone. It would be great if they could keep hold of that creative and forward-thinking spirit whilst simultaneously catering for the existing "needs". Usually developers tackle this by creating a bread-and-butter game to rake in the cash and keep the punters "happy", and then embarking on a voyage of discovery with something entirely new, to satisfy their raw creativity, with the side-effect that any successes be incorporated into the next bread-and-butter release. This is ever more feasible these days, with the established practice of customer feedback.

Sadly, I don't think PD will be getting away from GT any time soon. A new TT game might do the trick, though. They could use that as an experimental platform, much like the first one, to gauge reactions and whatnot, then see what'll translate into (what's become) the bread-and-butter GT. Or maybe I just really want a TT2, I'm not sure.
 
Glad to see you can make decisions. Its a real skill.

Glad to see you can make smart ass remarks when something doesn't concern you.



The fact that you aren't playing GT5 any more tells me that you are a flash in the pan gamer. There is so much life to this game online, 100's of rooms open all day everyday from all over the world doing all kinds of silly driving stuff. Loads of fun to be had.

I'm not a big online gamer. Never have been, that's just me. So for me personally the game is pretty dead and i've moved on (after 15 months). I don't see how that is a 'flash in the pan' gamer, whatever that even means.

Also, I think you've used procrastinate in the wrong context. What are you doing tomorrow that you should be doing today?

No I didn't. I should be working (from home), instead I'm on these forums. That's procrastinating.
 
Honestly, I think from an idealistic standpoint, I'd rather Kaz were free to do as he pleased, too. Realistically, however, I think they need to strike some sort of balance, you know, to please everyone. It would be great if they could keep hold of that creative and forward-thinking spirit whilst simultaneously catering for the existing "needs". Usually developers tackle this by creating a bread-and-butter game to rake in the cash and keep the punters "happy", and then embarking on a voyage of discovery with something entirely new, to satisfy their raw creativity, with the side-effect that any successes be incorporated into the next bread-and-butter release. This is ever more feasible these days, with the established practice of customer feedback.

Sadly, I don't think PD will be getting away from GT any time soon. A new TT game might do the trick, though. They could use that as an experimental platform, much like the first one, to gauge reactions and whatnot, then see what'll translate into (what's become) the bread-and-butter GT. Or maybe I just really want a TT2, I'm not sure.

Yep.

And maybe splitting GT in 2 could be a good solution? Because we got varied experiences embeded on GT and with the rumors that Kaz wanted free roam, etc... if you mix this with an advanced Photomode for example, we could have enough stuff for 2 games...

A purebreed racing game, with full RM cars and all the realism for endurance and racing events that people can have... and the "driving simulator" with all the aspects that car nutz could want... Free roam, car testing, etc...

Physics and base engine would be shared with both of course.

I think that we already have around 4 "kind of people" that plays GT5:

1- The classic GT fan, it'll play anything that PD releases and uses everything that's on the package (I'm kinda like these). Those understand the importance to have all kinds of cars on GT because its a tradition on the series. Other than racing only, likes to drive, test and use the cars in several different ways. Would like to have more places to drive, roads, tracks, whatever.

2- The racing dedicated people: those who run well organizated and serious online leagues, some of them hate the slow, everyday cars, they want more RM cars, more LM and more real racing tracks. Want the more real experience possible. Realistic pit stops, tire wear, fuel usage, the full package.

3- The casual player, he plays GT for a couple of months and throw it away

4- Photomode guys, like to drive too but spend a lot of time in photomode. Would love to have more photomode locations and nice places to drive and take pictures.

It's just a mad idea... but who knows? It could save, or destroy GT... the whole package and experience always been part of the game... but splitting in 2 games or 2 "modes" maybe would make easier for development and meeting those demands... because it's hard to appeal to the 2 biggest groups. When the "car nuts" want more customization options, the "racing guys" want better pit stop management tools, or more realistic tire wear... etc...

And thinking for a moment, and it surprises me... isn't what T10 is doing with FM? The main game, and that "Horizon" thing...

Again, I don't know... nobody knows... its just a mad idea. Or a really good one.
 
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Yep.

And maybe splitting GT in 2 could be a good solution? Because we got varied experiences embeded on GT and with the rumors that Kaz wanted free roam, etc... if you mix this with an advanced Photomode for example, we could have enough stuff for 2 games...

A purebreed racing game, with full RM cars and all the realism for endurance and racing events that people can have... and the "driving simulator" with all the aspects that car nutz could want... Free roam, car testing, etc...

Physics and base engine would be shared with both of course.

I think that we already have around 4 "kind of people" that plays GT5:

1- The classic GT fan, it'll play anything that PD releases and uses everything that's on the package (I'm kinda like these). Those understand the importance to have all kinds of cars on GT because its a tradition on the series. Other than racing only, likes to drive, test and use the cars in several different ways. Would like to have more places to drive, roads, tracks, whatever.

2- The racing dedicated people: those who run well organizated and serious online leagues, some of them hate the slow, everyday cars, they want more RM cars, more LM and more real racing tracks. Want the more real experience possible. Realistic pit stops, tire wear, fuel usage, the full package.

3- The casual player, he plays GT for a couple of months and throw it away

4- Photomode guys, like to drive too but spend a lot of time in photomode. Would love to have more photomode locations and nice places to drive and take pictures.

It's just a mad idea... but who knows? It could save, or destroy GT... the whole package and experience always been part of the game... but splitting in 2 games or 2 "modes" maybe would make easier for development and meeting those demands... because it's hard to appeal to the 2 biggest groups. When the "car nuts" want more customization options, the "racing guys" want better pit stop management tools, or more realistic tire wear... etc...

And thinking for a moment, and it surprises me... isn't what T10 is doing with FM? The main game, and that "Horizon" thing...

Again, I don't know... nobody knows... its just a mad idea. Or a really good one.

I would say I'm 1 and 4 sir...
 
It's an interesting idea. We sort of already have the game split up with A-Spec and B-Spec; maybe there's more that can be done with B-Spec? What about a so-called "C-Spec"? I'm not sure Kaz would like to split these up into separate games, although Sony would no doubt like to charge for the same content in a different form factor... That is, by having a modular system, including a base version, and then selling "B-Spec upgrades", "TT packs" or "FIA GT packs" to "plug in" to the base game, or whatever. That way you only pay for those modules you'll use, you can make a much larger game with fewer worries about balance etc. Having each module considerably cheaper, so that the base game and a few modules adds up to a normal $60 game in terms of quality and content would be ideal for sales revenue, and for players. Maybe. I don't know either; I'm not sure I'd like the game being opened up to monetisation like that, having been lured into iRacing...

You could argue that GTPSP has already added a separate "mode" of playing GT (it's quite distinct), but it doesn't really seem to have translated into anything beneficial for the main game outside of some optimisation techniques, but then I'm not overly familiar with the game itself.
Thinking on it more, they split NFS up into the semi-sim and full-arcade lines, but I'm not sure that was overly successful beyond the Hot Pursuit reboot (in terms of the actual games, not sales). I.e. Shift didn't really deliver what it promised, and now in hindsight looks incredibly cynical. No wonder project CARS was born.


In that sense, maybe PD really needs to stick with one GT game, and try something entirely different alongside. Let GT be GT, and let other games (Forza, GTR, GRiD etc.) be those other games. I, too, am the sort to use everything GT has to offer, so maybe that's why I wouldn't want to buy two games.
 
...
In that sense, maybe PD really needs to stick with one GT game, and try something entirely different alongside. Let GT be GT, and let other games (Forza, GTR, GRiD etc.) be those other games. I, too, am the sort to use everything GT has to offer, so maybe that's why I wouldn't want to buy two games.

It was just an idea. But in the end... I agree that GT is GT. It's not a simply racing game. I'm used to it, to the good stuff and the stuff we've always wanted to change.

In the end, there's racing games, and there's Gran Turismo. Since 1997 :) Damn, I'm getting emotional here. hehehe
 
Yes... that's what I think generally happens... I put 4, but its basically 3... the 1 and 4 usually are together. :) I think its pretty rare those who only take pictures?

Well I play GT5 everyday and have been since I bought it at midnight on launch (thinks about how many days that actually is... CHRIST)

But I do enjoy photomode a lot, its probably one of my favourite features, its just nice to wind down after some racing with a relaxing photo shoot... plus I really want the black smoke filled photo location that cars always seem to appear in on the DLC promo pics!
 
What would be wrong with bringing out loads of tracks such as more indoor karting tracks, and older tracks to GT5 as DLC ?

Then they would be in GT6 from the start ( you would think ) so it would be a win-win for us and for PD.

Then perhaps they could work on the stuff we want for GT6 like Youtube uploading, a better damage model, Racing flags/rules and more coverage of dynamic weather and time.
 
What would be wrong with bringing out loads of tracks such as more indoor karting tracks, and older tracks to GT5 as DLC ?

Then they would be in GT6 from the start ( you would think ) so it would be a win-win for us and for PD.

Then perhaps they could work on the stuff we want for GT6 like Youtube uploading, a better damage model, Racing flags/rules and more coverage of dynamic weather and time.

I'm with you. The merrier, the better.
 
Yep.

And maybe splitting GT in 2 could be a good solution? Because we got varied experiences embeded on GT and with the rumors that Kaz wanted free roam, etc... if you mix this with an advanced Photomode for example, we could have enough stuff for 2 games...

A purebreed racing game, with full RM cars and all the realism for endurance and racing events that people can have... and the "driving simulator" with all the aspects that car nutz could want... Free roam, car testing, etc...

Physics and base engine would be shared with both of course.

I think that we already have around 4 "kind of people" that plays GT5:

1- The classic GT fan, it'll play anything that PD releases and uses everything that's on the package (I'm kinda like these). Those understand the importance to have all kinds of cars on GT because its a tradition on the series. Other than racing only, likes to drive, test and use the cars in several different ways. Would like to have more places to drive, roads, tracks, whatever.

2- The racing dedicated people: those who run well organizated and serious online leagues, some of them hate the slow, everyday cars, they want more RM cars, more LM and more real racing tracks. Want the more real experience possible. Realistic pit stops, tire wear, fuel usage, the full package.

3- The casual player, he plays GT for a couple of months and throw it away

4- Photomode guys, like to drive too but spend a lot of time in photomode. Would love to have more photomode locations and nice places to drive and take pictures.

It's just a mad idea... but who knows? It could save, or destroy GT... the whole package and experience always been part of the game... but splitting in 2 games or 2 "modes" maybe would make easier for development and meeting those demands... because it's hard to appeal to the 2 biggest groups. When the "car nuts" want more customization options, the "racing guys" want better pit stop management tools, or more realistic tire wear... etc...

And thinking for a moment, and it surprises me... isn't what T10 is doing with FM? The main game, and that "Horizon" thing...

Again, I don't know... nobody knows... its just a mad idea. Or a really good one.

I'm a mix of one and four.
 
Well I play GT5 everyday and have been since I bought it at midnight on launch (thinks about how many days that actually is... CHRIST)

But I do enjoy photomode a lot, its probably one of my favourite features, its just nice to wind down after some racing with a relaxing photo shoot... plus I really want the black smoke filled photo location that cars always seem to appear in on the DLC promo pics!

Id love a white room... =D
 
Yep.

And maybe splitting GT in 2 could be a good solution? Because we got varied experiences embeded on GT and with the rumors that Kaz wanted free roam, etc... if you mix this with an advanced Photomode for example, we could have enough stuff for 2 games...

A purebreed racing game, with full RM cars and all the realism for endurance and racing events that people can have... and the "driving simulator" with all the aspects that car nutz could want... Free roam, car testing, etc...

Physics and base engine would be shared with both of course.

I think that we already have around 4 "kind of people" that plays GT5:

1- The classic GT fan, it'll play anything that PD releases and uses everything that's on the package (I'm kinda like these). Those understand the importance to have all kinds of cars on GT because its a tradition on the series. Other than racing only, likes to drive, test and use the cars in several different ways. Would like to have more places to drive, roads, tracks, whatever.

2- The racing dedicated people: those who run well organizated and serious online leagues, some of them hate the slow, everyday cars, they want more RM cars, more LM and more real racing tracks. Want the more real experience possible. Realistic pit stops, tire wear, fuel usage, the full package.

3- The casual player, he plays GT for a couple of months and throw it away

4- Photomode guys, like to drive too but spend a lot of time in photomode. Would love to have more photomode locations and nice places to drive and take pictures.

It's just a mad idea... but who knows? It could save, or destroy GT... the whole package and experience always been part of the game... but splitting in 2 games or 2 "modes" maybe would make easier for development and meeting those demands... because it's hard to appeal to the 2 biggest groups. When the "car nuts" want more customization options, the "racing guys" want better pit stop management tools, or more realistic tire wear... etc...

And thinking for a moment, and it surprises me... isn't what T10 is doing with FM? The main game, and that "Horizon" thing...

Again, I don't know... nobody knows... its just a mad idea. Or a really good one.

I'm #1 and #4. :D
 
Ha. I've played every GT game and sunk a huge amount of time into them and I'm none of those things, although 1 is the nearest, but still not me though.
 
-> ...

Yep.

And maybe splitting GT in 2 could be a good solution? Because we got varied experiences embeded on GT and with the rumors that Kaz wanted free roam, etc... if you mix this with an advanced Photomode for example, we could have enough stuff for 2 games...

A purebreed racing game, with full RM cars and all the realism for endurance and racing events that people can have... and the "driving simulator" with all the aspects that car nutz could want... Free roam, car testing, etc...

Physics and base engine would be shared with both of course.

I think that we already have around 4 "kind of people" that plays GT5:

1- The classic GT fan, it'll play anything that PD releases and uses everything that's on the package (I'm kinda like these). Those understand the importance to have all kinds of cars on GT because its a tradition on the series. Other than racing only, likes to drive, test and use the cars in several different ways. Would like to have more places to drive, roads, tracks, whatever.

2- The racing dedicated people: those who run well organizated and serious online leagues, some of them hate the slow, everyday cars, they want more RM cars, more LM and more real racing tracks. Want the more real experience possible. Realistic pit stops, tire wear, fuel usage, the full package.

3- The casual player, he plays GT for a couple of months and throw it away

4- Photomode guys, like to drive too but spend a lot of time in photomode. Would love to have more photomode locations and nice places to drive and take pictures.

It's just a mad idea... but who knows? It could save, or destroy GT... the whole package and experience always been part of the game... but splitting in 2 games or 2 "modes" maybe would make easier for development and meeting those demands... because it's hard to appeal to the 2 biggest groups. When the "car nuts" want more customization options, the "racing guys" want better pit stop management tools, or more realistic tire wear... etc...

And thinking for a moment, and it surprises me... isn't what T10 is doing with FM? The main game, and that "Horizon" thing...

Again, I don't know... nobody knows... its just a mad idea. Or a really good one.
^ Although I'm a definite number 1 and I'm a hybrid of number 3 on which I'm more of a casual player but I still play GT5 (just spent online for 4 hours last night). I just don't simply throw away a GT game:

IMG_8410.JPG


-> And your list seemed a little too niche...heres what I think of various GT players:

- Casual Gamer
- Collector (including Trophy-getters)
- Course Creator
- Photomode Guy
- Hardcore Racer/Time Slicer
- Online Junkie
- Speculator
- Wish Lister


^ I am the ones thats highlighted. :)
 
-> ...

I love how GTplanet is on the laptop... did you mean for that for was it a brilliant coincidence? haha
^ Not really, I was trying to transfer my GT1 file from my Japanese PS1 memory card to a USDM PS2 memory card into my PS3 HDD last night. And I was browsing my >missing< track thread at the time.

-> This wasn't the first time:

IMG_2854.JPG


:sly:
 
Glad to see you can make smart ass remarks when something doesn't concern you.





I'm not a big online gamer. Never have been, that's just me. So for me personally the game is pretty dead and i've moved on (after 15 months). I don't see how that is a 'flash in the pan' gamer, whatever that even means.



No I didn't. I should be working (from home), instead I'm on these forums. That's procrastinating.


So if you moved on from a 'dead game' why are you still whinging and moaning about it since the last 15 months?
 
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