Just to throw another quick tomato at Forza, there are other issues that point to a haphazard simulation of reality. You can flat out mess up the tuning deliberately, such as raising the car's suspension all the way with no apparent penalties. And then there's the AWD "destroys all" mod. What vexes me to my last nerve is how badly the 360 handles large file lists, like photo and decal libraries, and how it mucks up your pics when transferring them to the Forza site. I do still like Forza 3, kind of, and the physics are nice, but the things I want to do in it are crippled by some of the most horrible flaws, stuff which would get a GT game laughed off the dance floor.
And Live... I'm baffled why some of you think it's God's gift to gamers at a mere $whatever a year. Just so you can actually have the privilege to get on line and listen to foul mouthed teenagers razz you?
I know how much many of us love to sift through all of Gran Turismo's flaws, like the slippery slope of Daytona's high bank. But then, take a Lancia Stratus in Toca 3 and park it on a slope, and watch it slide down it like it's in snow or sleet. It does seem that many other games get a lot of free passes. Perhaps loud engine noises cover a multitude of sins or something.