GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Opera and Amuse actually teamed up to make the 350Z RS (The one we are testing this week) - well gigger my timbers I did not know that. I thought it was just a what if from Gran Turismo and Opera/Amuse in the same way the VGT cars are fantasy concepts that just may be possible.

 

​

 

Merry Christmas to everyone here on GTPlanet! Here is my present from you all, I have some time to kill before Christmas dinner so I'll squeeze this in right now.

Gran Turismo 350z RS vs Nissan Nismo 400r Comparison/Review
4wd vs Rwd Tuner cars from Nissan, who will grip this victory?




This week I had to scrap all of my information that I collected, because I was using my old 350z RS without buying a fresh one from the dealerships, so it was fully maxed and beat the 400r everywhere. After that I bought a new one and collected all my info a second time over.

Times:
350z: 2:21.030
400r: 2:23.821
Gap: +3.709​

The 400r feels very nice to drive, with a good turbo range and good handling, with a little bit of the characteristic understeer of most 4WD cars, The 350z felt quick out of the corners and very grippy. I was satisfied with both cars overall.

Point goes to the 350z RS



In the drag race, the more powerful and faster accelerating 400r stayed in front the entire race despite only having 4 forward gears (as far as I can tell).

Point goes to the 400r



The 350z easily comes out on top for paint chips, it has more colours than the 400r, but also has more shades too. The colours are generally more exciting over the solid colours of the latter's selection. The 350z RS also has the ability to be painted in GT Auto, so bonus points there too.

Point goes to the 350z RS



Both have no aero parts, but the 350z has one more inch bigger in rims, and as you know, gotta have more inches.

Point goes to the 350z RS



You can tune the tuned cars... Moving on....



I find that the 350z RS's sound is like a meatier version of the 400r, I like it better. The turbos on the 400r sound good, but not today...

Point goes to the 350z RS



I think I actually prefer the older looks of the 400r over the 350z RS. I think the 350 looks a little fat around the edges thanks to it's donor car having the colossal hatch in the back, if they made an open-top 350z RS I would probably die. But that doesn't exist and the 400r has all the nice-looking go fast bits that a GTR would ever need!

Point goes to the 400r



This time I mixed it up a bit, since I never see these cars online I took them down to Tsukuba for a sector drift trial. The 350z is made for drifting with it's RWD layout, while I had to repeatedly pull the E-Brake for the 400r to even score any points. In the end the 350z RS got 7,621 points and the 400r got 6,163 points.

Point goes to the 350z RS



This is another case of the TVR vs NSX we had weeks back. Why do all these awesome cars need to fight all the time?
Come on guys, get along! There's room in my digital garage for the both of you!

But alas a victor must be crowned. The 350z RS gets the vote and wins this week's head to head.

And the verdict is...

Tune your own car, Lazy!

See you next week!


​

 

Let's start with the 400R. Nismo dared to make the second generation Godzilla even faster. So this car has close to 400 HP (394 to be exact) and has a pretty hefty weight to go with it. When I tested this car, understeer was the worst problem, thanks to its front
-heavy weight distribution and 4WD drivetrain. The exterior quality of the car could be improved, but let's not make Standard vs Premium a big deal here.

The 350Z RS. Amuse and Opera really worked their magic on this one. This car has slightly less horsepower and less weight. This car behaves very well, has near perfect handling, and has an OK exhaust note. It's actually one of my favorite tuned cars in GT6, and it gets my vote.

Both cars were tested at Lagun Seca, no aids other than ABS: 1.

400R: 1:40.236
350Z RS: 1:38.500

The 400R seems as though it would do better on a faster course because on the shorter tracks the understeer is most present. So the votes:

400R: 2
350Z RS: 3

And the winner is......

The 350Z RS!!!

I don't hate the 400R, and to be honest I would choose it over the Z in real life because, well, the Z isn't a real car. Anyways, be sure to stop here tomorrow for the next Duel of the Week!​

 

Damn The 400R was beast! I love that car thanks a lot ace for the great thread!

 

It's a beast that just needs some tuning to make it an even better beast .

 

It stinks GT has the springs way to stiff they are actually 7k in the front and 8k in the back. Even though you cant get it that low, Lowering it to similar ratio make the car feel way better!

 

This week we're going back to the days of high powered, gas guzzling, old fashioned America. This week's duel is.....

The 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T

vs


The 1970 Plymouth Superbird

vs


The 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle 454 SS!!!

First time we've had a three way battle on here. The next duel will come after the new year, so this is my way of celebrating the end of a great year on here. So tell me what you think about these 'Murican machines, and if you have any suggestions, feel free to start a conversation with me!​

 

Anyone got any tips for the gearbox issues you get with these cars? (Other than drive on track where you don't get close to 120mph!) ... Okay 110mph if you like the Dodge!

 

For those three, I think the Challenger stands out due to the cleary better handling compared to the other two due to the 50-50 weight distribution, so that would be my choice

 

You'd have to get a fully-customizable transmission. All of these cars were made during a time where drag racing was really big, so they'd come from the factory with short gears. Hence why you're only hitting a top speed of about 110.

 

​

 

In real life, I would say the Superbird is the best, but PD seems to like the Challenger most out of these three since it is the one Premium interior choice and it seems to be the fastest.

This was a 550 pp classic Dodge and Plymouth race, and the Challenger was the dominant car throughout.
The Chevelle and Superbird aren't much of a challenge to the Challenger.

 

I am unable to do a full review this week, but I place my bet on the superbird based off of pure appeal and collectablility

 

Wow, this is awesome. I've never done a three-way before.

Wait, no. Not what I meant!

So anyway, three cars this time around, and they're all classic American muscle cars. Talking offhand though, I'm pretty sure the Challenger is going to be top dog because the other two cars are a bit heavier, and all three have comparable power. (The Superbird and the Challenger have the same 426 Hemi under the hood and the same power output for heaven's sake) But, all three of these cars more than deserve a chance to show which one is the best.

I was going to do a thing where I'd rank the cars tournament-style with points based on how quickly they lapped. The car with the fastest lap would get two points, the car with the second fastest lap would get one point, and the slowest one would get a gold star for effort. However, all three cars placed in the exact same order during both trials, so there's no need for the simple arithmetic.

Mountain Trial:
Challenger - 1:52.082 (1st)
Superbird - 1:54.820 (3rd)
Chevelle - 1:53.734 (2nd)

City Trial:
Challenger - 1:40.540 (1st)
Superbird - 1:41.982 (3rd)
Chevelle - 1:41.671 (2nd)

As I thought, the pony car trumped both of the larger cars. The placing of all three cars also shows the trend of oversteer versus understeer quite nicely as well. "Thrasher, what are you on about?" Well, the Challenger was most susceptible to oversteer opposed to the other two. It was easier to kick the tail out in corners, and the only real understeer I encountered was during the steep downhill section on Rotenboden. On the opposite end of the spectrum, the Superbird was quite stable, but to a fault. I had to slow down quite a bit in corners so I wouldn't plow the car into the outside wall, especially on the last corner leading to the main straight on SSR5. The Challenger kicked the back out on that corner, the Superbird got uncomfortably close to the guardrail. The Chevelle wasn't necessarily the middle ground, because it had the Superbird's problems, just not as pronounced.

I say the Challenger wins this one with a significant margin. The Chevelle comes in second, and the Superbird finishes close behind.

 

At Midfield, the spread between these three cars is less than 3 tenths of a second.

1:26.286 - 480 - Plymouth Superbird '70
1:26.460 - 479 - Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 '70
1:26.534 - 490 - Dodge Challenger R/T '70

Superbird hits a top speed of 127 mph.
Chevelle hit 130 mph, but it could go faster with a longer straight section.
Challenger can only manage 111 mph before hitting the rev limiter.

Superbird
7.0L
425 hp / 5,000 rpm
490 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,755 kg (3,869 lbs)

Chevelle
7.4L
449 hp / 5,500 rpm
500 ft-lb / 3,500 rpm
1,762 kg (3,885 lbs)

Challenger
7.0L
425 hp / 5,000 rpm
490 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,724 kg (3,801 lbs)

 

If possible I would like to see results from a 1/4mile drag race between them in stock and then hotlap them in the US iconic Laguna Seca raceway at the same gearbox's ratio setup (top speed around 300 kph) in order to let them shine or not through their chassis balance or inbalance. Might try that in a few hours.

 

Ran all three... And my gut says.... Chevelle
It looks mean - The Chally has a off looking bonnet (hood) the Roadrunner looks iconic, but it ain't easy on the eyes.

The Chevelle also has that cool lack of a Chevy logo on the front...

It is the kind of car you let John Wick borrow... and you don't want to mess about with John Wick!

The Chally had a terrible gearbox, however good the rest of the car is this was an instant elimination factor for me. The Superbird just has looks even a mother could not love.

Chevelle SS - Winner for me.
Superbird (2nd)
Challenger (3rd)

 

You guys are awesome these reviews are great! My only request is if its possible for people to write down the tires being used, and driving aids thanks alot.

 

I always use whatever tires come on the car. If both cars come with different tires, I upgrade the vehicle with worse tires to the better compound of the two.

In this case, all three cars were on Sports Hards.

EDIT: And regarding driving aids, I use a DS3, and always bring traction control down to 0. ABS is always at 1, and I use no other aids.

 

I never use anything higher then comfort soft on stock production cars, For this test all the 1970 beast get comfort hard and no ABS for I don't think ABS was available on these cars. Me personally I love to run the cars as close to their real counterpart as possible. When doing the test most of them are having trouble getting traction in 3rd gear I love it though, throttle control and steering inputs must be smoother then baby skin. I am doing my write up now this was really fun.

 

Plus they really weren't powerful enough to justify having gears that went much past 120 anyway. Very few cars of the era (American or not) were what anyone would call "wind cheating".

 

70's 'Murican Muscle car Triple header!

Plymouth Superbird vs. Chevrolet Chevelle SS vs. Dodge Challenger R/T

Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 '70
70,000cr
479PP
7440cc V8
449bhp
69.0 Torques
5,029x1930x1336mm
1762KG
Sports Hard Tyres

15 Colour Options (I Chose Cranberry Red - Lets hope it isn't a Turkey!)

-----------

Dodge Challenger R/T '70
75,000cr
490PP
6981cc V8
425bhp
67.7 Torques
4864x1943x1295mm
1724kg

20 colour options ( I chose Cream (Perfect topping - Let's hope this isn't a Christmas Pudding.)

(I Am hopeful the Plymouth has some Christmas link in the Paintchips)

----------

Plymouth Superbird '70
42,440cr
480PP
6941cc V8
425bhp
67.8Torques
5588x1941x1560mm
1755kg

28 Paint chips (I chose Ivy Green Metallic as there is a Christmas Carol "The Holly and the Ivy" which a group of rather wet kids chose to sing on my doorstep - in November... The little Rascals.)

--------------

Firstly a Few B Spec runs....
Willow Springs (3 laps)

Sack that off, My B Spec driver can't pass wind (More Sprouts?)

Chevrolet Chevelle 454 Super Sport

Okay into the car myself... I know full well what will be wrong with the car (Other than the steeringwheel not being on the right side) The Gearbox - 2.2/1.64/1.28/1.00 and 4.10 final -

Hmm - seems the gearbox is just about fine for Willow Springs. SO let's watch the replay and see just how fast the old tub went?
122mph and the red light flashes..... but the car will climb to 132... (After a cheeky slipstream!)

Handling - Basic - Wallowy the heavy weight puts alot of work for the suspension and tyres to even out. The Beefy Engine makes for an equally hard time for the powertrain. Basic it may be but it is a Front engined rear wheel drive car - so you get two large handfuls of fun. Maybe it will be a bit saggy and wobbley, but when all you are after is glory at the stoplight Grand Prix There is no replacement for displacement.

1m31.676 (SH - Chevelle)
1m34.873 (CS - Chevelle)
Comfort Soft Tyres was more ... hectic - much more fun - less grip meant I had to balance the car much more, floor the loud pedal and you waste the power in a cloud of tyre from the inside rear tyre.


Looks -
The Chevelle is a Big Bruiser of a car. Looks like a Big guy with cauliflower ears... you know the kind of guy you know would tell you what he was going to do before he beat you up.

----

Dodge Challenger R/T '70

Bit of B Spec...And the gearbox seems to tie up the potential of the car - 112mph and you clatter off the limiter.

Gearbox 2.20/1.64/1.27/1.00 and 3.54 final
That is a huge issue...

1m32.168 (SH - Challenger R/T)
1m35.508 (CS - Challenger R/T)

Car is nice enough, I could drift alot of corners and the balance was very predictable - but the elephant in the room is that short short gearbox - I was clobbering the limiter into turns 1 2 3 ... Never a good sign when you have a swearbox overflowing after just a single lap.

Looks
- Film Star looks. (Star of a Tarantino Film you say...) The wide front has a chiseled feel to it that lacks the imposing meat that the Chevelle had. The Bonnett stripe and rear detailing loop are pretty basic, And are not out of the box great to look at in comparison to a set of basic stripes... The secondary paint strips to me really hurts the look of the car. If it were just plain then it could edge the Chevellle, but it doesn't.

----

Plymouth Superbird

Gearbox 2.650/1.930/1.390/1.000 and 3.540 Final Gear ... oh Dear. Not looking good at all.

1m30.867 (SH - Superbird)
1m34.577 (CS - Superbird)

Actually the gearbox was just about long enough... didn't hit the rev limiter but it felt like alot of potential was wasted as I only really used 4th - Car got up to 125mph.

Handling was mediocre, Not hitting the Rev limiter was a huge plus point but it didn't feel as much fun as the Chevelle.

Looks
- Now I am going to say something really stupid here... it has an "E-Type" quality about it... as in the car is pretty sleak and narrow. The rear wheels don't force the body to flare out or bulge as much as the other two. What else can I say about it that is nice... Pop up Headlamps - always classy... That is it. The car looks like a Lay-dee who has had some cheap and cheerful plastic surgery... Comedy bolt on front end and comedy bolt on tail end... If you like that sort of thing - great. But I like a more natural flow to a car and this seems to fall between Road car and Race car - and has the bad aspects of both.

----------------

(My choice is a few posts up but wanted to get this off my chest.) - I think all three cars are much more fun on Comfort tyres but the gearbox of the Dodge kills it. And the Picasso looks of the Superbird takes that one out pretty early too. So the winner is the same...)

All cars ran with ABS=0 TCS=0 KFC=0 with a D-Pad.

 

Let's start with the Challenger. Who said muscle cars can't turn? This one handles nicely for a muscle car, but has the lowest top speed of the three, at 112 mph. This is made up for in the corners though, because the handling is quite predictable so you can stop anything bad from happening before it does happen.

The Superbird. The most aerodynamic of the three, this was built for one thing and one thing only, NASCAR. All three of these cars have a huge color palette, and I chose lemon twist for this one. This one falls dead center on handling and performance in my opinion. Not as predictable handling as the Challenger, but it does have a higher top speed at 125 mph. Not a terrible drive for a boat like this.

The Chevelle. My favorite sounding of the three, this one has the highest top speed, at 132 mph. But this one suffers in the handling department. Going into most corners, this car wanted to drift simply because of its 454 engine and 'merican weight. I bought mine in red and black and I must say it looks great. So which one do I choose? It's very tough to choose here, but in the end I prefer a car that seems to fit in as an all rounder, so I choose.....

The Challenger

All three were tested on this sprint track that I made on Death Valley. No aids except ABS: 1.

Challenger: 2:23.281
Superbird: 2:26.602
Chevelle: 2:24.504

And the votes:

Challenger: 3
Superbird: 1
Chevelle: 1

And the winner is.....

The '70 Challenger R/T!!!

Great way to start off the new year. Never thought this thread would've received this much interest. Anyways, be sure to stop by here tomorrow for the next duel of the week!​

 

This week I chose two cars that are widely popular not only in real life, but in GT6 as well. This week's duel is.....

The 2010 McLaren MP4-12C

vs


The 2000 Tommy Kaira ZZ-II!!!

Two mid engines, two different drivetrains. As always, it should be a great battle, so be sure to let me know which is better!​

 

This was a pretty good concept for a duel. If these were released at the same time, I feel as though they would have been close rivals. However, the McLaren seems to have much more exposure today than the Tommy Kaira ever did. Does this mean it's a better performing car? Let's find out.

Mountain Trial:
MP4-12C - 1:40.671
ZZ-II - 1:39.226

City Trial:
MP4-12C - 1:29.519
ZZ-II - 1:28.335

In this duel, the 4WD Tommy Kaira triumphs over the McLaren. The McLaren had the usual problems that plague an MR supercar. It was very easy to fishtail and can be quite a handful to the untrained driver. The Tommy Kaira would frequently wash-out in corners, not quite the same sort of understeer that most 4WD cars experience, but it will end with your car in the outside rail if you don't slow down enough.

The ZZ-II is the winner.

 

I am a 12C fan, and I am delighted by the fact that it has significantly improved from GT5 (it was a terrible trash of a car).

It corners very well now, with tolerable understeer. Can keep up with the big bad supercars like the Aventador or Enzo.

However, my vote would go for the ZZII simply because it's value for money. Adjustable downforce and ample amounts of power to humiliate even the 12C.

 

At first glance it seems as though this is somewhat of a mismatch but when you drive both cars you realise its not. You would think that the newer McLaren would be faster but its not, the Tommy Kaira still punches above its weight despite the age gap.

I tested the two cars at Tsukuba and found that the Tk was indeed the faster of the two cars with its all wheel drive being a great help in exiting a corner but I felt that the McLaren had better turn in and had more stopping power yet the Tk was more stable under braking. I wont publish times as with my woeful talents behind the wheel they are not representative of what the two cars are capable of doing. I actually contacted Chris Harris to lay down some times but he never got back to me. Strange that.

**Driver aids were ABS set to 1 and both cars were stock except for an oil change and a repaint for the Tk.

I think the McLaren looks better in my eyes but whenever I look at the Tk it appears like a Japanese take on the MP-412C's daddy, the F1 and that is no bad thing at all. Shame the Tk was not a premium model after all this time. The McLaren certainly has a greater range of colors available and the Tk range was a bit dull for me hence I repainted it in Dandelion Yellow, orgin unknown. Noise wise I think the Tk sounds more meatier then the McLaren and has less lag too. Value for money wise the Tommy Kaira wins in spades at a quarter the cost of its British counterpart and faster too but this isnt a bang for your bucks test.

All in all I prefer the McLaren actually, mainly because its more agile even though its trickier because it lacks the all wheel drive system of its rival and its brakes are better. At first when it was released I wasnt a fan of its looks but its warmed to me over the last few years and it doesnt look half bad at all. Shame the 675LT isnt in the game as I believe its what the MP4-12C shouldve looked like in the first place but I digress.

A win for the McLaren but certainly not an embaressing loss for Tommy Kaira as if this was indeed a bang for your bucks comparison it would win quite convincingly but its not.

 

I haven't been in this thread since a long time ago but i could tell that you actually bother'd to continue to this day. And i'm amazed that there's still some people who's interested in this although much less than before...

Well done...

 

Tommykaira Zedzedeyeeye versus the McLaren Emmpeefourdashtwelvecee

hmm - this is a great duel as - I don't have a clue how they compare with base PP scores. yet...

So what do I think of the pair before I wake up my PS3?

The ZZ-II is a rocket. Small yet powerful looking, light but it has all wheel drive. Comes in a mean metallic dark green. It is a car I always bracket with the Cerbera Speed 12 - both are real but too extreme for real world and came alive in Gran Turismo. It's a car with a reputation as a bargain bin monster. Not sure why it is so cheap in the Republic of Granturismolonia as it has alot of advantages.

The McLaren is a car that lives in the shadow of the past - the McLaren F1 - And reviews tend to bring that up. And this one it seems, is no different! It is a car that tended to attract critical downgrades for what it was never going to be.

Looks (Memory Lane)

*** The Zedzedeyeeye ***

Sharp squat square yet sleek. The vents on the side could be a bit Friday Afternoon in terms of looks (I'll rush this job so I can get to the pub early and enjoy the weekend) But that really is nit picking as the rest of the car is tight-tight-tight! The subtle twin air scoops on the cabin roof. The front of the car is simple but clean and looks nearly perfect from any angle. The back of the car is short, stubby - Maybe evocative of a Stratos - never a bad thing!

*** The Emmpeefourdashtwelvecee ***

It looks wider and lower than the ZZ-II, The black splitter lifts the front of the car and the way the front bumper partially curls under this gives it a Lobster Claw motif from what I remember. the rest of the car is a bit generic - like a Blonde from Southern California, Pretty but not quite stunning not quite elegant, not quite innocent, not quite dangerous. And from some angles the car looks queer. But looks are not everything. The big point of the car was under the skin.

------------

...
Track test
Firstly, I Like cars that are nimble and 4WD cars tend to wet the bed when it comes to changing direction - However the ZZ-II has a mid engine, so fingers crossed it will rotate in corners like an 80's Group B rally monster! (Not you Audi, no, not you.)

---------------
McLaren Emmpeefourdashtwelvecee
225,000Kazulas
581PP
???cc (But we know it is a 3.8 Litre V8 twin turbo)
591bhp/61.2 torques (Which becomes 600bhp/64.3 Torques in your garage)
1350kg
4509x1908x1199mm
Sport Hard Tyres
44:56Weight Distribution
0/80 Aero (None adjustable)
7/35/15 None adjustable Rear Differential as standard
17 paint chips ( I chose FIRE BLACK as I already has Orange and Racing Green)

--------
Tommykaira Zedzedeyeeye.
60,000Kazulas
572PP
???cc (But who knows what sized engine they would have put in beyond the prototype stage
542bhp/??Torques (55Torques in Car Settings)
1000kg
4300x1860x1190mm
Sport Hard Tyres
50:50 Weight Distribution
120/200 Stock Aero (Adjustable 50-150 front axel /50-350 rear axel)
7/30/15 LSD settings for front and rear axels as stock
80mm/80mm ride (Adjustable 60-85mm)
1.0°/0.5° Camber (Adjustable 0.0°- 5.0° of "lean")
4 paint chips ( Chose SILVER METALLIC - as that was the colour I won it in the first time I won the car back in some previous incarnation of GT)


----------------

Speed (Route X)

MP4-12C
236mph In 7th (Rev limited ultimate top speed)
226mph is its top speed without any downhill or slip stream shenanigans.

1st 45 mph
2nd 70mph
3rd 95 mph
4th 125 mph
5th 157 mph
6th 192 mph
7th 226 mph (Red light - 8500revs)
Rev limiter is about 8800revs
---------------

ZZII
209mph In 6th (Rev Limited)
Rev limiter hits at 9000revs

1st 48 mph
2nd 68 mph
3rd 100 mph
4th 132 mph
5th 163 mph
6th 209 mph​

In terms of pure speed the Emmpeefourdashtwelvecee has the Zedzedeyeeye on the ropes and pummels it with body blows.

----
Track day - Japan or England? (Tails - Japan wins)

Okayama (Aida TI - You may remember this as the Pacific Grand Prix back in 1994 and 1995) -

6 laps of the track best time for the zedzedeyeeye -
1m33.892 - Zedzedeyeeye

Let's fire up the Macca!
1m33.203 - Emmpeefourdashtwelvecee


Handling (Okayama)

The Zedzedeyeeye.
Felt very long on the brakes - with ABS off I never got close to locking up. The corners felt cumbersome - in slow stuff the car was very reluctant to turn in and fast stuff the car had that four wheel drive feel of a car with lazy vague handling - Of course maybe it goes faster than it feels...

The Emmpeefourdashtwelvecee
One easy lap - one a bit faster... oh beat the 4wheeldrive car... Hard cheese old chap! The English car had the advantages of a nimble rotation, easy to balance and a handful of locking brakes and wheel spin out of corners - All the good stuff - and it has a Horn! Give me that Toot toot!
--

Engine Note
Both are mediocre - I'd give a slight nod to the Emmpeefourdashtwelvecee, as the zedzedeyeeye has a slight looping artefact at high speeds near 180-200mph

---

SO far and other than the smouldering good looks at the front of the Tommykaira - the rest is all McLaren, Faster, More nimble- more fun. You could argue the Japanese prototype has more tuning options.
---

So which car does the Ryk chose? The Bad gearbox on the Tommykaira isn't as bad as last weeks winner - But the fun bit to drive goes to the McLaren hands down.

The
McLaren
Emmpeefourdashtwelvecee
Both come with Dark Green Paint - So they are both winners in a way.​