GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    The first C12, the Callaway. I didn't even notice that these two had the exact same name until after I read it twice. So the Callaway is a more sluggish performer on the track. Gears are spaced out, understeer is present, and to top it all off, its slower than the C5 Vette that it's based off of. I don't hate the car, and it is tunable so you just have to tinker with it to enjoy it.

    The other C12 is a most wonderful modern machine, the Pagani. It was the first car that was made by the company, and is still widely known today as one of the best modern sports/supercars out there. Performance wise it doesn't fail to impress, though power loss is greatly noticed at high rpms. It comes in one color, which is silver, and thankfully is able to be painted. So, after a little thought, I choose.....

    The Pagani

    Both cars tested at Deep Forest, no aids except ABS:1. Here are the times after three laps of testing:

    Callaway C12: 1:26:825
    Pagani C12: 1:23.368

    And the votes:

    Callaway: 1
    Pagani: 4

    And the winner is.....

    [​IMG]
    The '00 Zonda C12!!!

    Guess I jumped the gun on thinking I wouldn't get a review in tonight. Anyways, stop back here tomorrow for the next duel of the week, and if you have any suggestions, feel free to start a conversation with me!​
     
  2. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    This week's duel dives into the wonderful world of racecars. The machines that have increased power over the stock variants, and have downforce to go with them. So this week's duel is.....

    [​IMG]
    The 2012 Subaru BRZ R&D Sport

    vs

    [​IMG]
    The 2001 Honda S2000 LM Race Car!!!


    FR vs far, Japanese vs Japanese. Should be good as always, so be sure to vote and give a say on these two. So with that, let the battle begin.​
     
    Lubeify100, Rotorist, Ryk and 3 others like this.
  3. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

    Messages:
    5,209
    Location:
    Canada
    image.jpeg image.jpeg

    Here is a pretty useless stat chart for the s2000
     
    ThrasherDBS, Cowboy and MidFieldMaven like this.
  4. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

    Messages:
    3,410
    Location:
    United States
    Subaru BRZ R&D Sport '12
    2.0L
    345 hp / 6,000 rpm
    325 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
    1,150 kg (2,535 lbs)
    510 pp

    Honda S2000 LM Race Car
    315 hp / 11,500 rpm
    168 ft-lb / 9,500 rpm
    1,050 kg (2,315 lbs)
    485 pp

    I believe this S2000 is based on the AP1 so it has the same engine displacement as the BRZ R&D Sport. The Subaru has the better engine though, with 30 more horsepowers and 157 more ft-lbs of torque at staggeringly low rpm's compared to the high-strung Honda. The sleek S2000 has the weight advantage, a total of 100 kg (220 lbs) lighter than the BRZ.

    Both cars can perform a clean hot lap at Mid-Field in the low 1:19 range on Comfort Soft tires, consistently, using the DS3. The Honda was 1 mph slower into the first braking zone, and had a 2 mph slower minimum cornering speed through the first turn. That set the stage for it being a few ticks slower than the BRZ around this track.

    1:19.080 - 510 - Subaru BRZ R&D Sport '12
    1:19.396 - 485 - Honda S2000 LM Race Car




    Hard to say which car I prefer. The BRZ is more of a racecar, in my opinion, so it wins here. But the S2000 can be a good challenge, and much more fun to have fun with.
     
  5. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    United States
    This is a good duel, all of the fastest laps between both cars were within a second of each other, and it even called for a tie-breaker trial.

    Both of these cars are GT300 class racers, and while I can't look up the S2000's actual racing record since it's a fantasy car, I can certainly look up R&D Sport's results from 2012 and unfortunately they aren't promising. Throughout the overall season for GT300 cars, out of 30 cars, the BRZ came in 14th, with its highest finishing position being 4th. That said, that doesn't mean R&D Sport's BRZ isn't a good racing car, it's actually pretty good. However, I do have quite a bit of positive experience with the S2000 LM since the vehicle's debut in GT3. Very responsive, can keep glued to the road, lots of power at the higher rpms, my subjective opinion goes in favor of the S2000. But, I hadn't really taken the Subaru out for any races and was wondering how it would behave. Well, first time for everything! Let's see how things panned out.

    Mountain Trial:
    BRZ - 1:36.898
    S2000 - 1:36.378

    City Trial:
    BRZ - 1:25.460
    S2000 - 1:26.036

    Suzuka Trial:
    BRZ - 2:09.603
    S2000 - 2:09.359

    VERY close battle, especially at the tie-breaker. I picked Suzuka because these certainly seem like they'd compete together in Super GT. (Why not, since one is an actual GT300 racer.) With the BRZ, you have to actively try to throw the car off-balance when going around corners. It keeps itself balanced, especially on the last long corner on SSR5, you can take that corner with your foot firmly planted on the gas pedal. Both cars have a bit of understeer which can be easily remedied with less pressure on the gas pedal on the long corners. After driving both cars, I had to recheck the driving options to make sure I had turned Traction Control off. They are honestly that well behaved.

    The BRZ took the city trial, but the S2000 took the mountain trial and the tie-breaker, chiefly due to the power delivered at its high rpms. The S2000 overall felt faster on the straights, with the BRZ being only slightly better on corners, but not enough to make up for the time the S2000 gained on the straights.

    Both cars feel pretty good, but the S2000 is my winner for this one.
     
    Ryk, Cowboy, Rotorist and 2 others like this.
  6. Ryk

    Ryk

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    England
    Honda S2000 LM vs the Subaru BR-Z R&D GT300

    ---
    Both 2 litre race cars with 4 cylinders... but...

    The S2000 is a flight of fantasy PD version of the acclaimed soft top -
    The Subaru has a Turbo bolted on

    *** Honesty Hut ***
    Firstly I loved the Honda del sol LM in the Original GT. The pocket rocket MR was my preferred car as It let me race on a level with my pals who all loved the FTO LM.

    The S2000 has the same sort of look to it - The same chunky boxy wheel arches and Honda flavour.

    The BRZ is a car that I like as a Road car but as a racer? Have to admit I'd stump up for a Garaiya or an Amemiya RX7 before I chose the GT86 the FRS... which one is this... oh yes the BRZ (Isn't that an Old Toyota code?).

    -----------


    Okay out of the gate I can see this is a seesaw match up. The S2000LM is a quarter of the price and is 25pp down and again it crosses a threshold number (500pp) - The BRZ looks like it should smoke the S2000LM for the price and PP disparity.

    So lets look at a few things that are not regulated by price.

    -----

    Engine.
    Both are two litre, four cylinders but they are not identical.

    Honda S2000LM
    This has a race version of the inline 4 pot VTEC that sits in the road car it is set up to run at much higher revs. The car is naturally aspirated. The engine note is very "Motorbike" 12,000 revs makes the car seem way faster to the ears on the first few miles before you get used to it... Then it is a bit of a disappointment to drive a different car afterwards that only just gets up to 7000 or so.

    The Subaru BRZ
    This has a racy version of the turbocharged EJ20 4 Cylinder boxer. It generates 30 more peak horses than the Honda but... it has a whopping 22 more torques than the Honda which only squeezes out 23. Yes the BRZ has an engine which pours out twice as much torque. On paper it should be a fearsome beast out of slow corners.

    -------

    Aerodynamics
    This is a bit of a snag as the BRZ has more of it and stock it is set with more aero than the S2000.

    BRZ R&D - 150-350 Front adjustable Downforce and 300-600 at the Rear (Stock 200F/450R)
    S2000LM - 100-200 Front adjustable Downforce and 200-500 at the Rear (Stock 150F/400R)

    The best compromise I had, was to split the difference and run at the same aero level for both cars - mid way between both cars stock numbers... 175 front and 425 rear.
    This could hurt both of them in terms of handling next to stock levels - but at least it is a bit more of an even playing field for both cars.

    Tyres
    Subaru uses - Yokohama Advan Race Hard
    Honda uses - Michelin Pilot Race Hard


    *** Round 1 - PRICE ***

    S2000LM - 125,000 kazulas
    BRZ R&D - 500,000 kazulas

    Four times the price... Or Quarter of the outlay. Either one is ferociously over priced or the other is the Bargain of Bargains! Time will see if it goes four times as fast? Or four times as slow...

    S2000LM 10(10) - BRZ R&D 6(6)


    All tests save this one was run at a Catch weight level of Aerodynamic downforce -
    *** Round 2 - Ultimate Speed ***
    A Long, long run on the Route X track - Neither car had a lot of oomph to it. But the Cheaper Honda was clearly the faster car in its purest form.
    I Ran both cars at the S2000LM level of Aero (150F/400R) ...
    The BRZ was 4 seconds slower than that with its own stock level of aero.(200F/450R)

    S2000LM 163 unaided (7m02.770)
    BRZ R&D 159 unaided (7m11.458)

    All tests after this will be at the mid point - 175/425 Aero.

    S2000LM 10(20) - BRZ R&D 9(15)

    *** Round 3 - Looks ***
    The S2000 looks quite nice as a hard top and the tea tray rear wing is quite pleasing. Uncluttered.
    The BRZ is ruthless to the GT300 dimensional rule book, and is choc full of vents and slats to channel air to provide as much downforce and as little drag while still being able to cool the low slung Boxer engine. Lots of vents in the bonnet that if you are a bit sneaky with a camera you can see a bit of uncensored Japanese engine intake manifold... pure filth!
    On pure shape I'd give this one to the BRZ.

    S2000LM 9(29) - BRZ R&D 10(25)

    *** Round 4 - Looks - "In the Dark" Bonus round ***
    At night though the S2000LM looks very tight. Those embedded quad nose lamps just ooze class. Twin side exhausts spitting fire too.
    The BRZ is nice enough but even fancy LED lamps can't compete with 4 Fog lamps!

    S2000LM 10(39) - BRZ R&D 9(34)

    *** Round 5 - Livery ***

    Neither are amazing. The BRZ has a simple single colour and a scattering of fonts and colours over it. I think the BRZ wouldbe better if the Denso and Motul logo's were pure white.
    The S2000 has an attempt at a livery, Very simple colour on Black which enhances the taught lines of the car.
    The S2000 takes this by not only having a bit of a scheme but also getting most of its logos to work with the colour scheme. AND you get the choice of (Count them!) three colours (Red, Blue and... Magenta? Pink? Fuchsia?)
    Yes, the premium Subaru loses because it has a Red font on a Blue car! -

    S2000LM 10(49) - BRZ R&D 9(43)

    *** Round 6 - Race test 1 - GT All-Stars Race 5 - Grand Valley Speedway (5laps) ***
    (ABS=0 - TCS=0 SRF=0 Stock settings (Equalized Aerodynamic Downforce of 175/425)

    1m54.716 (9m46.927) S2000LM Huarya '13 9m47.269
    1m54.451 (9m44.269) BRZ R&D McLaren F1'94 9m44.172

    Numbers don't lie the BRZ took this round, But you can see the Honda won its race. the Subaru only got second so maybe it was benefiting from a slip stream? Still the round goes to the BRZ


    S2000LM 9(58) - BRZ R&D 10(53)

    *** Round 7 - Handling ***
    (Stock settings - Catchweight Aero)

    The S2000LM is a spunky little car the engine screaming at you. Handling is pretty solid, light nimble responsive - All those good things you get with Slick tyres. But it retains some naughty aspects. It can break away out of corners and lock ups into corners are refreshingly frequent to keep me on my toes and enjoying the drive. Maybe lacks a smidge of turn in grip at the front. (I Tend to enjoy "pointy" cars) The lack of punch form the engine was apparent when I hit the hill at GVS.
    The BRZ R&D is a nice neat car - It has a really enjoyable power oversteer quality though corners if you get the car on the edge of the friction circle. Very controlable oversteer that you play with on corner exits ... Seems I enjoy this "pointy" car!

    S2000LM 9(67) - BRZ R&D 10(63)

    °°° Round 8/9/10/11/12+13 - GT All-Stars Championship rounds °°°
    (ABS=0 - TCS=0 SRF=0 Stock settings (Equalized Aerodynamic Downforce of 175/425)

    As a test race at Grand Valley was so close I'll run these race cars at all five tracks for a total of 25 laps

    The BRZ drew a grid with a Veyron and an Enzo and a Murceilargo SV
    The S2000LM got a Veyron, McLaren F1 and the Enzo

    *** Round 8 GT All-Stars Race 1 - High Speed Ring (5 laps x 2.49 miles) ***

    1m09.127 (5m54.843)(1st) BRZ R&D - (Enzo 5m56.890)
    1m10.262 (6m00.867)(3rd) S2000LM - (Enzo 5m56.894)

    BRZ hit its rev limited top speed of 169mph while it was in a cheeky slipstream. One factor is that these cars are not the fastest but the BRZ managed to hold onto the Enzo and make enough of a lead to keep it over the line. Overall very happy with the balance of the car - The Aero gives the car a good bite of the road on the fast sweeps.
    S2000LM - Car was okay - but the lack of beef in the engine bay told heavily on this power circuit and many times I was smothered by other cars regaining a place I had taken a corner before. Didn't feel as grippy as the BRZ and the tyre scrabble noise seemed to remind me this.

    S2000LM 9(76) - BRZ R&D 10(73)

    *** Round 9 GT All-Stars Race 2 - Apricot Hill Raceway (5 laps x 2.4 miles) ***
    1m24.005 (7m03.549)(1st) BRZ R&D - (Enzo 7m09.784)
    1m24.091 (7m04.780)(1st) S2000LM - (F1 7m10.114)

    BRZ was in the groove here. Lots of grip from the slick tyres mated with a low weight and reasonable power made the car very high on the fun threshold. Corners I usually curse at due to understeer and the car unable to put the power down, as it won't rotate were mostly forgotten. Very stable car and it made the final corner flat out with ease.

    S2000LM - Wow Car felt good as I passed the grid in short order the McLaren 11 seconds ahead of the 3rd placed car, but it seems the BRZ *just* edged this round.

    Thankfully closer than the HSR event.

    S2000LM 9(85) - BRZ R&D 10(83)

    *** Round 10 GT All-Stars Race 3 - MPMRC aka "Bathurst" (5 laps x 3.86 miles) ***
    2m18.028 (11m45.320)(3rd) BRZ R&D - (Enzo 11m36.480)
    2m15.318 (11m27.461)(2nd) S2000LM - (F1 11m23.708)

    BRZ R&D - felt good but the Enzo and Veyron were a fari old chunk up the narrow road where passing isn't easy - I was reeling them in but alas I had a moment at the Cutting and ended up facing the inside of the wall... how embarassing! -
    S2000LM - I had forgotten about the BRZ's spin here but the S2000LM was just as much fun as the BRZ. In my head I think the BRZ has more grip yet I was able to thread the needle without as much houligan opposite lock out of the corners. In the end after a tight four way fight at the front. The F1 just edged the lead after my pass into the Chase ended with a bit of off road grass cutting as I made my way back to the track with the local drongos hurling abuse at me from the stands.

    S2000LM 10(95) - BRZ R&D 9(92)

    *** Round 11 GT All-Stars Race 4 - Brands Hatch (5 laps x 2.43 miles) ***
    1m??.??? (7m41.740)(1st) BRZ R&D - (Veyron 7m45.828)
    1m29.738 (7m41.227)(1st) S2000LM - (F1 7m44.984)

    BRZ R&D - back on the top step and the Bugatti helped the championship by splitting the BRZ and the Enzo of Kikuchi-san. BRZ felt pretty tight. (I deleted the fastest lap time here due to being a dork on the keyboard!)
    S2000LM - Doesn't get much closer than that! Shame I lost the BRZ's best lap time. Car felt good, I am thinking the only loser will me be when I stop driving either of the cars.

    S2000LM 10(105) - BRZ R&D 9(101)

    *** Round 12 GT All-Stars Race 5 - Grand Valley Speedway (5 laps x 3.07 miles) ***
    1m53.744 (9m39.204)(1st) BRZ R&D - (Veyron 9m42.728)
    1m54.441 (9m41.853)(1st) S2000LM - (F1 9m46.470)

    BRZ R&D - Car was on rails. The car could handle the Cresting Esses flat out (Obviously without touching the white lines!) The weak point was Collonades (After the Bridge) - that long flat rightanded loop.
    S2000LM - That was tough. The F1 was only just behind in the championship and had pulled a healthy lead after 3 laps but then I reeled it in... I think he eased off the throttle near the end. Again a car that can handle the cresting esses at full chat. The slow esses prior to the The Bridge (I Call it "Hardcastle" as Marshall Point "19" is on the exit on the left) is a troublesome point as the car doesn't chase the corner well.

    S2000LM 9(114) - BRZ R&D 10(111)


    *** Round 13 GT All-Stars Total Championship results ***

    BRZ R&D - 4 wins + a 3rd place and the Championship -
    S2000LM - 3 wins + a 2nd and a 3rd place and the Championship
    S2000LM was 8.4 seconds faster after the championship.

    I know I should give this to the S2000LM in terms of actual numbers After nearly three quarters of an hour of track time the difference was under 10 seconds - but I was the one that dropped the ball at MPMRC - and when I was pedalling them they were very evenly matched - The BRZ maybe faster, but the S2000LM was slightly easier to push hard with.

    S2000LM 10(124) - BRZ R&D 10(121)

    *** Round 14 - Aerodynamic diversity ***

    This is a very simple way of saying that the BRZ has more potential Aerodynamically induced downforce and so it should be better able to adapt to different circuits just down to the greater range and depth of wing angles you can employ.

    S2000LM 9(133) BRZ R&D 10(131)

    *** Round 15 - Engine Note ***

    The High pitched scream of the VTEC or the slurping turbo of the four pot Boxer? The Boxer engine has more depth to it, But when you get that Honda up in the big numbers it is a real treat. I think I have to edge this to the Subaru as the engine just seems a bit more busy and alive over the rev range and when you swap gears. the Honda is a bit ... quiet at times. I Enjoyed both though.

    S2000LM 9(142) BRZ R&D 10(141)

    BRZ R&D - 133.9 miles
    S2000LM - 126.3 miles
    (I repeated the High Speed test at Route X in the Subaru as it was running more wing - It didn't help it it was still much slower.)


    So 260 miles driven in these two cars in total?
    Which car would I jump into if it was a race... which ever was closest, probably.

    But which car is the best? I imagine the Honda will have edged it due to it being very cheap and My usual bias towards the lower PP rated car. (I'm English I always support the underdog.)

    Final score
    S2000LM 142
    BRZ R&D 141


    So I guess the Honda wins. But this one was closer, If Iwas forced to use the Subaru I'd not be upset so a very close second place. (Thanks for this combo as I had not even bought the BRZ R&D.
    (Neither come in British Racing Green... Balderdash and Piffle!)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
  7. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    United States
    Neither car may come in British Racing Green, but the BRZ's base racing model can if you want it to.
     
    Ryk, Cowboy and MrWaflz55 like this.
  8. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States

     
    MidFieldMaven and MrWaflz55 like this.
  9. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

    Messages:
    5,209
    Location:
    Canada
    RED MODE ACTIVATE:
    GT6 COMPARISONS #32, SUBARU BRZ R&D SPORT GT300 '12 VS HONDA S2000 LM RACE CAR

    "GT300 vs Le Mans. Which Motorsport is superior?"


    Deep Forest Raceway.jpg


    Race cars, to some people, they are the pinnacle of going fast, to others though, specifically the cool wall thread, they are SUBRC.(seriously uncool because race car.) These two are prime examples of middle class racing, slotting under GTLM and GT500, and above trophy one-makes like the Clio Cup.




    This time, we have in one corner, the Honda S2000 LM Race Car. Designed to be the ultimate S2000 back in the day (GT3 A-Spec), the car itself is based on the pre-facelifted version of the S2000. Complete with a load of fog lights, a wing and a race-prepped engine and interior. It might be showing it's age compared to other, newer race cars, but it comes out today to prove itself against those newer racing models such as the Subaru BRZ GT300.


    upload_2016-1-28_16-34-31.png

    The Subaru BRZ is a Silhouette-style racing car based on the BRZ road car. It is fielded by R&D sport, a company that develops most of Subaru's GT cars to replace the old Legacy-style racer it share engines with. This unit is producing about 345hp without restrictor plates, and has a turbocharger while the road car does not, much to the enthusiast's chagrin... It has seen moderate success in the league, but fails to meet the performance of other cars in the category such as the Honda CR-Z and BMW Z4 GT3, and of course its greatest enemy, The Prius!!!!!

    Eifel Flat_2.jpg

    Both cars were taken out to Eifel, an amazing glitch track with some pretty cool underpasses. It is still very much driveable though.

    The BRZ is a very fast car out of the corners, but lacks somewhat in raw speed and cornering prowess. It has heavy aero and 100kg's more than the S2000, so in the Corners it suffers a bit. The turbo is useful at low revs, so the BRZ is a rocket on tracks with short straights. Overall it is a competitive car within it's respective motorsport, and maybe even the most popular GT300 car online.

    The S2000 is a nice car to drive, picture a go-kart, and then supersize it. Yup, pretty much. It has very high cornering speeds due to it only weighing but a feather, and 315hp is enough juice to move it along the straights a bit faster than the BRZ. It takes a little to wind up though, with a revline at 12,000rpm it sounds nice, but takes a little bit longer to reach peak torque. Think of it like the Enterprise going into warp, it's a rocket, but it takes time.

    Laps have been completed and the results are in:
    S2000: 1:44.487
    BRZ: 1:44.535
    Gap: 0.048
    Incredibly close, but it seems the S2000 wins this one, and the winning doesn't stop there.

    In the drag race, I lined both of them up and then held down X on both controllers, making sure they were in line first.

    The S2000 reached the goal at 54.203 seconds @ 251km/h
    The BRZ GT300 reached the goal at 54.321 seconds @ 247km/h (no joke)
    So it seems the S2000 wins the speed trap too.

    The BRZ wins for paint chips though, with it's sister car allowed to be painted, it's perfect for online championships.

    For liveries, the BRZ doesn't have much of one, with standard WR Blue paint and some sponsorships. I choose the Purple livery on the S2000, because #stylepoints and it comes in Blue/Red too. I also prefer the design of the S2000 livery over most other LM's too, so it wins here in this regard.

    Sound on the S2000 is very nice, the VTech may or may not kick in, depending on the engine this semi-fictional version is using, and I love cars with very high redlines, they are always a pleasure to hear over most sounds in this game. The BRZ has basic GT300 style sounds, but it's even worse with the super-low 7,000rpm redline. After listening to the S2000 it appears sluggish.

    So in the end, I grant this victory to the
    Honda S2000 LM Race Car '99-03'
    [​IMG]


    In the end, GT300 was outclassed by Le Mans. I wouldn't mind the BRZ as my main 500pp racer, but there's a certain S2000 in the way of that...

    and the verdict is...

    DTM!!1!!!!!!!11!!1!!11!!1

    upload_2016-1-28_16-53-53.png upload_2016-1-28_16-54-1.png
    upload_2016-1-28_16-54-18.png upload_2016-1-28_16-54-43.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  10. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    United States
    Kinda wonder if us regulars in this thread should start a small club where we can test these cars together.

    If nothing else, I'd like to add you guys on PSN. This thread has been quite a lot of fun, and it gives me something to do with the credits I have.
     
  11. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    I do have my own club, which is the Casual Racing Club. It's been inactive since July, so if you want to do some testing together that's an option. I probably wouldn't be able to join these rooms most of the time because I'm not online in the evenings, unless it's the weekend.
     
    MidFieldMaven and MrWaflz55 like this.
  12. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    United States
    Decided to go back and do another duel, I'll be revisiting the old duels that were held before I found this thread.

    Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi '10 vs. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X GSR P.P. '07

    Probably the biggest Japanese rivalry in the automotive scene, and for a good reason. High performance, 4WD, four-doors that have been rivals for over 20 years. Both cars have amazing balance and are pretty impressive in their own rights but which one is better? I would say it's time to settle it now, but it was already settled seven months ago. Late to the party but, eh, whatever.

    Mountain Trial:
    Impreza - 1:49.399
    Lancer - 1:49.389

    City Trial:
    Impreza - 1:36.711
    Lancer - 1:37.166

    Trial Mountain. . . Trial:
    Impreza - 1:41.637
    Lancer - 1:41.037

    Both cars are exceptionally close in performance and their handling characteristics are incredibly similar. If any differences can be discerned, the Lan Evo does have a little bit more turn-in capability in corners than the Impreza does. The Lancer won the elevation change-heavy track, but the Impreza won the more flat, circuity track. What would be a good tie-breaker course for the both of them? Trial Mountain with its elevation changes, but still a fairly circuity feel.

    My vote goes for the Lancer. When this duel was taking place, the Impreza beat it out 5 votes to 2 votes, so my extra vote won't change the overall outcome of the duel. However, in my opinion, Seiji Iwaki from Initial D put it best:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    Let's start with the BRZ. A real GT300 machine, capable of competing with the RX7, IS350, etc. I enjoyed this one when I drove it, mainly because it felt safe. Corners weren't and issue and it got me from point A to point B. People do say though that this car doesn't keep up enough with the other GT300 cars, which doesn't make much sense to me.

    S2000. The millenial roadster, now in a fictious race car form. It has an LM at the end of its name, but it's far to slow for an LMGT, so why not take it against a more sane competitor. This car also was no problem in the corners, and drove very similar to the BRZ. The exhaust not gets a little annoying after a while, but overall it's close to the Subaru. It's a tough choice between these two, but there can only be one, so I choose...

    The BRZ.

    Both cars were tested on Brands Hatch. No aids except ABS 1.

    BRZ: 1:30.757
    S2000: 1:32.580

    Despite the similarly between the two, the S2000 felt just a bit more tail happy than the BRZ.

    The votes:

    BRZ: 2
    S2000: 3

    And the winner is.....

    [​IMG]
    The '01 S2000 LM!!!

    So ends another great battle, but that's not all. I have a little treat for you guys though, so without further ado, let me introduce the official GT6 Duel of the Week Club! Every week with the announcement of the weekly duel, I will post a time trial in the club for competition, or you can make your own duel of the week lobbies too. So, with that, stop back here tomorrow for the next Duel of the Week!​
     
  14. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    This week's duel features two cars from the land of the Schwarzwald. One of these is quite widely known, and the other is lesser known. So this week's duel is.....

    [​IMG]
    The 2000 RUF 3400S

    vs

    [​IMG]
    The 2004 BMW M3!!!

    (Thanks to @ThrasherDBS for the suggestion.)

    MR vs FR, again. Should be good as always, so let me know what you think of these two, and be sure to cast your vote. This week's Time Trial takes place at Deep Forest, an original track that requires the perfect line in order to achieve a good lap time. So with that, let the battle begin.​
     
  15. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

    Messages:
    5,209
    Location:
    Canada
    Battle of ze Germans I see...
    image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
     
    MidFieldMaven, Ryk and Cowboy like this.
  16. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    United States
    @MrWaflz55 and I just did some racing in the new Duel of the Week club, and for the most part, we agreed that the Ruf is the better car of the two on Deep Forest.

    3400S - 1:26.006
    M3 - 1:27.096

    The BMW would step out on corners, whereas the Ruf would hold the racing line. Still going to do my usual trials, but I'm guessing the Ruf is going to be the winner of my vote.
     
    Ryk, Cowboy, MrWaflz55 and 1 other person like this.
  17. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

    Messages:
    5,785
    Location:
    United States
    I'll take the Boutique Boxster for the block and the win.









     
  18. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States

     
    MrWaflz55 likes this.
  19. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

    Messages:
    5,785
    Location:
    United States




     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
    Vic Reign93 likes this.
  20. Ryk

    Ryk

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    England
    Jeepers a lot of video's getting posted.

    I had a quick test of these guys but the RUF beat up the Beemer like it had been designed by a Chris Bangle design team...
     
    MidFieldMaven, Cowboy and MrWaflz55 like this.
  21. Rotorist

    Rotorist

    Messages:
    1,225
    Location:
    Greece
    @Ryk : E46 M3 wasn't a bangle desing. The next one (E92) was.

    As for this nice duel: M3 was the best 4 seater sports car of its time by far. Great engine, great balance, grip, handling. A great of all times in my opinion. RUF 3400 is a great handling car also, better than M3 in this aspect. Price included M3 is my winner. Not looking at cost, M3 for everyday use and Ruf for trackdays.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  22. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    Switzerland
    On Trial Mountain, CS tyres, no assists except ABS 1, no oil change :


    RUF 3400S >>> 01:38,630
    BMW M3 (E46) >>> 01:39,416 (+ 0,786)

    The M3 feels very "serious", always focused : it won't betray you. The RUF is faster in corners, but maybe a bit more rebel when trying to get the last tenths out of it (which makes it a bit more fun) : you're not expecting to lose the end, and it rarely happens, but when it happens, the grip loss is sudden and brutal, so you have to be prepared for that.

    M3's gearbox is pretty meh, you barely use more than 2 gears on Trial Mountain (first gears too short, last too long), while the RUF makes a good use of 4 of them, which shows its gearbox is staged better.

    Anyway, the M3 feels like it left some potential to be found (which is called CSL). The 3400S however feels like it went on top of what a 986 Boxster chassis can do. It is more true to being a sports car - which is quite a compliment as the E46 M3 is far from being a bad reference in that spot.

    My vote goes to the RUF.
     
  23. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

    Messages:
    5,209
    Location:
    Canada
    GT6 DotW #33, RUF 3400s vs BMW M3

    Hey all, no time for a full review this week:



    image.jpeg


    The BMW M3 is a nice car to drive with traction control on. With it off however, it becomes the "businessman's favourite drift car". It's nice to have some old-fashioned fun with it, but in the speedround that's not what we're after... The RUF 3400s is probably the most forgiving RUF to drive. The yellowbird wants nothing short of your mutilated head on a stick, and the RGT's favourite place to go when it slides is the sandtrap. The 3400s shows a softer side to the insane track destroyers RUF is known for. But this boxter-based car is nothing to mess with.

    Taking them down to an Eifel user-created track "Countryside Circuit", I clocked in some lap times

    No TC, Abs 1, Manual, Stock Tires as usual.

    RUF: 2:25.456
    BMW: 2:26.783

    This confirms what @ThrasherDBS and I have talked about at the first club TT, The BMW is consistently One or Two seconds slower around most tracks than the 3400s.

    So this week's vote goes to the RUF 3400s, and the verdict is:

    JDM all day bruh, Euro imports are lame!!!!

    (Come on guys, can't we all get along?)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
    Ryk, MidFieldMaven and Cowboy like this.
  24. Ryk

    Ryk

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    England
    Ruf 3400S (2000) vs the BMW M3 (2004)
    Rondabeemerruf.jpg
    I've getting alot of DejaVu here -

    BMW first...

    74,560 Kazulas
    470pp
    338bhp/37.2 Torques (3246cc Naturally Aspirated S54B32 Straight Six )
    1570kg 50:50
    7/30/15 LSD (Fixed)
    SH tyres
    10 chips in a ... odd selection. Two Blacks, two Greys, Two Blues, a rich red and a frosty white - then it has a Golden Phoenix Yellow and ... Oxford (Not Brogues!) Green Metallic
    Just take my money!
    This is the E46 Model - Two pairs of exaust pipes - a solid basic shape - Probably the ulitmate Businessman racer.
    Subtle power bulge in the bonnet - Now I am not a fan of Chris Bangle's designs... But this was a period when he was gaining more of the design power inside of BMW - (Chris Bangle owns the Design Patent to the E46 Sedan car.) This is much better looking than the next 3-Series (E90).... But it isn't as Crisp as the previous 3 Series (E36)

    RUF

    77,730 Kazulas
    470pp
    305pp/36.7torques (3387cc Naturally Aspirated Water Cooled Flat 6 Cylinder)
    1300kg 54:46
    7/30/15 LSD(Fixed)
    SH Tyres
    Sports Exhaust (Stock)
    12 chips (All unnamed)

    Rachel the Model Pink, Yellowbird Erm Yellow, Nikita the Journalist Yellow, Lime Metallic, Beats the DJ Green, Snow White, Dan the Kickboxer SIlver, High Ho Silver, Mysterious Test Driver Black, Bluish Silver, Marco The Mechanic Sky Blue and Indigestable Indigo . Oddly there is no "Taka Bo the Hacker Red"

    What? Obviously to me the Ruf 3400S is the GT version of the Porsche Boxster - which had a console game back on the PSX about 20 years ago... (Creak!) (Lets have a quick go on it to see what all the fuss was for! Hmm Very fast paced - but that game had the soft top down and animated motion captured drivers... and the AI would react differently depending who was close to them on the track But of course it looks like you are playing it on a toaster with tracks that are rife with pop up and Graphics pushed to the limit of the Hardware - How things have progressed in two decades eh!

    The engine - not the 2.5 litre Flat six horizonatlly opposed 4 valves per cylinder on a DOHC for each bank of cylinders... But the new water cooled flat six that sits in the back of the new 911 Porsche (The Porsche 996 - Yes the one with the Boxster nose!)

    ------------
    Handling Test -

    Beemer
    Enjoyable - the Engine note is a bit too musical for my ears but it has a bit low mid range crunch when you have to upchange when you hit 8000rpm.
    The Car rotates very well and the longer sweeps it will keep trying to hit the apex, and present you with a very manageble about of oversteer. You also get power oversteer on the exit of corners if you turn the driver aids off and you can loon about. Into corners it is good but the car was locking up the fronts - but that was never a real issue. Car had a bit of a soft wallow at times but again it is a pimped up road car and all that weight has to have some sort of Mass Effect. Overall I enjoyed the drive - Very chuckable.

    RUF
    Mid engined but much more mass over the front axel when we took it to the weighbridge - Strange.
    Car only revs to 7000rpm but the engine note is much less sing-songy. Car takes a bit of time to dial in and isn't as intuative as the "Sausage and Saurkraut" Beemer with the much more basic layout. And once you do get it zeroed in it will destroy the M3.


    1m28.807 (4m29.054) Cape Ring South - BMW M3
    1m26.745 (4m24.736) Cape Ring South - RUF 3400S

    ====


    I am afriad to drive these two any more, as I can see the RUF humiliating the Beemer - and the M3 wasn't struggling so I can't see it gaining alot of time The Ruf I can see only getting faster as the driver gets the most out of the mid engined concept.

    ---------
    4 days later...
    Seasonal run...
    Rear Wheel Drive Non-Race Car & Tuned Car Super Lap (That's what the replay said anyhow.)
    So I gave both cars 4 laps...
    1m33.635 - Historic Apricot Hill Raceway - Ruf 3400S -
    1m34.149 - Historic Apricot Hill Raceway - BMW M3 -

    The RUF felt easy to drive, on a track I don't really enjoy to drive (Curbs are way too easy to cut and people run cheaty GTPlanet lines and literally kick sand in other drivers faces) (moan over) - The Beemer was fun though - (Photographic Evidence required)
    It does rotate on the limit with a progressive pace that lets you play with fire, but never get burnt (You may leave a big happy trail of smokey fun in your wake though.)
    (Photographic Evidence Supplied) beemer.jpg

    Looks

    One looks like a 'roided up corporate car. It is good, but it is not as good as it used to be, A bit fatter, a bit less taught, Not quite at the stage of "gimmick" styling But You know the next 3 series will be "Full Bangle" - and you never go Full Bangle - Maybe this car got undue flack as the previous models were so iconic and this one was looking flabby.
    The 3400S looks a bit plain - Mid engined sportscar and you think Ferrari 355 or Lotus Esprit or even Toyota MR2 Sleek and agressive- The Boxter/3400S is a pretty descrete sports car in comparison. Not sure why but the old Boxster (BOXer engine plopped into an open top RoadSTER car) never really looked that great (Sorry Grant Larson!) - Maybe down to it having to use the new 911 nose (996) - Perhaps it was just me thinking it was a cost saving measure by sharing bits between different models, But you can't argue against it being a popular car that took Porsche away from debts and paved the way for a boom in sales.

    If I had to pick one to have?
    Ruf 3400S

    I prefered the Ruf to the Beemer prior to the test so I was expecting the Beemer ot be faster and make my choice tough, but when My Gut wants the Ruf and the Stopwatch agrees who am I to spoil things.
    The Beemer isn't bad - it has a really nice Oxford Green, but the Ruf is just better and they are about the same price.

    There are no compeling reasons for me to want the M3 - It is the start of a trend of more ugly versions of the car - The Boxster was the first version - and the RUF 3400S is like a beefed up version of the Boxster - or a "Modern" version of the venerable 911 having a Mid engine concept and a soft top without the all or nothing handling of the engine hanging off the back of the car. And over 300 Horse powers in an Open Top car,

    RUF 3400S - You WIN!

    (Got the Porsche Challenge soundtrack in my head now!)
     
    MrWaflz55, Cowboy and MidFieldMaven like this.
  25. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

    Messages:
    3,410
    Location:
    United States
    RUF 3400S '00
    3.4L
    305 hp / 7,000 rpm
    265 ft-lb / 5,000 rpm
    1,300 kg (2,866 lbs)

    BMW M4 '04
    3.2L
    339 hp / 8,000 rpm
    269 ft-lb / 5,000 rpm
    1,570 kg (3,461 lbs)

    BMW manages to make 34 more horses and 4 more ft-lbs of torque, despite having a smaller engine by about 200 cc's.

    Both cars have 470 PP, and were within half a second of each other at Mid-Field on Comfort Soft tires. This is despite the BMW's extra 270 kg (595 lbs) of mass. On the straightaway, the RUF was only 1 mph faster, with a maximum speed of 143 mph before applying pressure on the brake pedal.

    So because the RUF isn't significantly faster than the BMW despite near-identical torque figures and a serious weight advantage, I'd rather drive the M3.


     
    MrWaflz55, Vic Reign93 and Ryk like this.
  26. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    United States
    So... after my usual trials to make my verdict "official". I was sure to pay extra attention to the behavior of both cars. One is a beefed up Boxter, and another is one of the famous M series BMWs. In my original post, I was favoring the Boxter, but at the same time, opinions can change. So has my opinion cha-...no. No it hasn't.

    Mountain Trial:
    3400S - 1:48.250
    M3 - 1:51.532

    City Trial:
    3400S - 1:34.965
    M3 - 1:36.364

    The Ruf still stayed planted when it needed to be, and the BMW decided to swing outward further in long corners, you couldn't give an adequate amount of gas in the corners unless you wanted the car to fishtail.

    Both cars have the same PP and are at quite a comparable price, but the Ruf is clearly the better car.
     
    Marc30599, Ryk, Cowboy and 2 others like this.
  27. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    The 3400S. The alternative to the Porsche™ Boxster. It is a semi-premium car in GT6 and has the performance to go with the looks. Through the test, the car drove quite nicely, with no steering issues. There are plenty of color choices, but unfortunately you can't add any aero parts. It's a great competitor for the M3, since they are close to identical in performance.

    The E46. The descendant to its ancestor, the E30. Plenty of people use this car for Tuning, or just have them to cruise around in. This is no different in GT6, thanks to its 50:50 weight distribution. Looks are alright, with a more mature appearance, mknus the pixelation. On the road, it was pretty responsive in all situations. Sound wise, I prefer the 3400S, but for a final choice overall.....

    I choose RUF

    Both tested at Deep Forest, no aids except ABS:1

    M3: 1:27.484
    3400S: 1:26.188

    And the votes:

    M3: 2
    3400S: 4

    And the winner is.....

    ruf-3400-s-10.jpg
    The '00 3400S!!!

    Mid engine won this battle, but front engines shouldn't be counted out since there are some really competitive ones out there, like the M3. So come back here tomorrow for the next duel of the week!​
     
  28. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    This week's duel is brought to you by two cars that had the '80s style. A lot of people know these two, yet some don't. So this week's duel is.....

    IMG_0071_small.jpg
    The 1983 Nissan Silvia 240RS (S110)

    vs

    Lotus_Turbo_Esprit_HC.jpg
    The 1987 Lotus Esprit Turbo HC!!!


    Mr vs FR again? Never seems to get old around here. Be sure to take these two for a spin and let me know what you think. This weeks time trial takes place at the Eiger short track, a place where handling will be key in achieving a good lap time. With that, let the battle begin.​
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
  29. Ryk

    Ryk

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    England


    This is like Samurai Cop vs James Bond...
     
    Lubeify100 and MidFieldMaven like this.
  30. Neddo

    Neddo

    Messages:
    3,951
    Based on looks alone Esprit by far!