GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. notsofast

    notsofast

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    I haven't been on the GT6 forum for ages as I didn't have access to my PS3 so I think this has been the first time I've participated in this thread. Would've loved to be doing this from thread start as it's quite interesting put two cars head to head to find a favourite. Can't wait for the next one.
     
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  2. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Suggestions are always welcome, just make sure you start a conversation with me in order to sumbit one :D.
     
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  3. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    0 Title Card.jpg
    2010 McLaren Mp4-12c vs 2000 Tommykaira ZZII Review/Comparison
    "Turbos make everything better, except the 458, let's start the review!" or is it Turbo's?

    image.jpeg

    1 Test Drive and Lap Times.jpg

    After playing so much Destiny, Battlefront and Fifa 16 over the holidays on my new PS4, and not having been able to find Project CARS yet, I had to dust off my old driving skills after buying a switcher for the HDMI's for my TV, so I headed on over to an amazing user created course dubbed "Mark's Raceshack". I hope these two cars can forgive my bad breaking zones and terrible shifting. I feel like I shaved off enough time and had dusted off enough to set down some OK lap times.

    Well see for yourselves:
    MP4:1:44.676
    ZZII: 1:43.462
    Gap: +1.214

    So the Tommykaira on the track is faster, I find it has the right amount of grip to not make it feel too "understeery". It feels just right, and then the 4WD blasts it out the corners. I feel the 4WD just makes the car. The MP4 feels kind of fidgety, you sense that it doesn't want to drift at all, and if it does it goes for a little bit and then snaps back into an understeer, but at least the stopping power is great.

    Point to the ZZ-Top

    2 Drag Race.jpg

    Down to the 4000m drag race, the ZZ twooo takes an early lead over the empeefour (thanks Ryk, I love it) due to its 4WD. But the victory at the start is short lived and the McLaren comes back with the higher top speed and secret 7th gear.

    The Empeefour wins this drag...........................................................................queen
    alwayswantedtodothat​

    3 Paint Chips.jpg

    The MP4 absolutely blows away in this category, the ZZtwo has four paint chips, and the MP4 has all of those, and then some. 17 somes in fact.

    The MP4 takes this round home in a box, because it was full.

    4 Customization.jpg

    The MP4 has more aero parts because standard, and the ZZII has +1 size advantage in rims, this round is null.
    If you are wondering why, there is a wheel up there, you see it?

    5 Tuning.jpg

    The Tommykaira has the magic adjustable downforce without needing a wing, now I would take points off for realism, buuuut it does prove usefull without needing to pay an extra 6,000cr so it wins this round over the MP4.

    6 Sound.jpg

    This one's hard to explain. There is a strong presence of nostalgia with the ZZII sharing an engine note with the Le Mans race cars. I absolutely love the sound even though it sounds nothing like it does in real life, while the MP4 just has the 458's sloppy second racing exhaust.

    The ZZII wins this round.

    7 Design and Styling.jpg

    This is an easy one, just gotta repeat what the Clarkson said.

    "There's nothing wrong with it. But there's no art. The MP4 just feels like it was
    styled by software and shaped by computers, which it probably was"
    -J Clizzle 2002-2015

    And here comes Mr. Obscure 90's supercar here to praise the ZZII for looking like nothing I've ever seen before. It likes to be bold, and I love that. So..
    The ZZII wins again!

    8 Drifting and Online Popularity.jpg

    Well, neither car likes to drift much, but can be tuned and the MP4 is spammed on race lobbies while the ZZII is the king of the drag strip, it really comes down to play style here.
    Neither wins this round.

    9 Final Thoughts.jpg

    So the ZZII is loads cheaper, faster on the circuit and has a magic invisible wing. So it comes out on top over the McLaren. It was a great ride in both cars, but I've got to give my vote to the
    TOMMYKAIRA ZZII
    and it wins this week of Car Reviews/Comparisons!

    And the verdict is...
    Yamaha OX99-11 anyone?


    upload_2016-1-7_16-54-16.png

    See you next week! :cheers:

     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
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  4. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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  5. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    Is there any laptime in real life for TK guys? I would love to compare with its GT6 version on an existing track there. Searching in web doesn't get me anything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  6. Ryk

    Ryk

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    From What I know, (Very little!) the ZZII was just a rolling prototype with a Skyline engine RB26DETT used as a Mid Engine testbed.

    The rights for the design moved to Autobacs (ASL- same chaps that did the Garaiya - which also fell through.) and they were planning to finish the plan (As the "RS01" I think) but again things didn't run smoothly and so the Gran Turismo car is the car Tommykaira and Autobacs would have wanted to produce. Almost a VGT before VGT's were cool


    ---
     
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  7. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Let's start with the 12C. McLaren's first car since the legendary F1 of the 1990's. It comes with a wide array of colors, and has the looks to go with them. Though on the track, it drove a bit funny. Unpredictable understeer made for a tricky drive in the corners, but it made up for that in the straights.

    The ZZ-II. This version was first seen in GT3 as a dream car. All of you probably know that this is probably the cheapest and one of teh best supercars in GT6. It only comes with four paint colors, but the green metallic looms nice, so I chose that. The drive was more fitting than the McLaren, maybe because it has a perfect weight distribution, and it only weighs 1,000 kg stock. So after some short thought,

    I choose the ZZ-II.

    Both cars were tested at Indy Road Course, no aids except ABS: 1.

    MP4-12C: 1:39.080
    ZZ-II: 1:38:468

    And the votes:

    MP4-12C: 2
    ZZ-II: 4

    And the winner is.....

    [​IMG]
    The '00 ZZ-II!!!

    I had to give a bit of a short review this week because I'm in a bit of a hurry. Anyways, nice duel this week, so be sure to stop back here tomorrow for the next duel of the week!​
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  8. XtremeEdward

    XtremeEdward (Banned)

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    Do the Nissan R390 GT1 race car '98 vs the AMG Mercedes CLK GTR Race car '98 or I will start trolling this website. And if I'm banned for this, I can come back. And I will

    Have a nice day :)
     
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  9. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Well first, you can start by submitting your suggestion properly by starting a private conversation with @CowboyAce57 . Second, you go have fun getting banned, you won't be coming back if you think you are! And if this is meant to be said jokingly, then whoops...

    Have a nice day :sly:
     
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  10. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Good luck with that.

    As @MrWaflz55 said, you have to start a conversation with me in order for your suggestion to count.
     
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  11. daan

    daan Moderator

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    So, how is that different to what you actually do just now?
     
  12. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    This week's duel features tow cars that have been a staple of the GT series, not only online, but across the general public as well. This week's duel is.....

    [​IMG]
    The 1996 Lotus Elise

    vs

    [​IMG]
    The 2006 Honda S2000!!!


    MR vs FR, two fairly cheap cars, and unbeatable driving pleasure. Cast your votes, let me know what you think of these two, and let the battle begin!​
     
  13. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Honda S2000 '06
    2.2L
    235 hp / 8,000 rpm
    163 ft-lb / 6,500 rpm
    1,250 kg (2,756 lbs)
    423 pp

    Lotus Elise '96
    1.8L
    118 hp / 6,200 rpm
    122 ft-lb / 3,000 rpm
    755 kg (1,665 lbs)
    408 pp

    At Mid-Field on Comfort Soft tires, I found these two cars almost identical in overall performance.




    The Honda was 7 mph faster on the long front straightaway, but I gotta give it to the little Lotus for seeing 120 mph on the speedometer before braking for Turn 1. Minimum speed through Turn 1 was much higher in the 1,100 lb lighter Elise. And that's how the story goes. S2000 moderately fast on straights. Elise very fast in corners.
     
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  14. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    When I was younger, I thought the Honda S2000 was okay so far as sports cars go. Wouldn't have been my first pick but, eh it's someone's dream car. Then there was the Elise. A little sports car with 118hp? Who would bother? Heck, the Honda del Sol churns out more power! Yup, back when I was a little kid, horsepower and top speed equated to how good a car was. Whenever the Elise was a selectable car in a video game, I'd go for some other car because the Elise has very low power and a very low top speed so far as sports cars are concerned. That was long before I knew exactly how a vehicle's weight factored into how "fast" a car can be. Lowering a vehicle's weight can improve acceleration, because the wheels don't need as much force to get a car moving, and it also improves maneuverability so there isn't as much forward inertia to fight against when you want the car to change direction.

    Therein lays the Elise's main gimmick. It didn't need a massive amount of power for it to be quick. It was just a zippy lightweight sports car. Meanwhile, the S2000 fit the more conventional sports car sort of formula. An engine that gives more power than the grocery-getters, a suspension that made for a fun ride, and the styling that made it look like it could play the part. So how do these two roadsters stack up?

    Mountain Trial:
    Elise: 1:59.114
    S2000: 1:58.002

    City Trial:
    Elise: 1:43.735
    S2000: 1:42.729

    Well, as much as being lightweight can be a strength, it's probably good not to just bank on one attribute. Being lightweight can be quite a strength on its own, and the Elise proved that by how close it got to a car with nearly double the power. However, tracks are not made of just corners and bends, there are straights in there too. The straights, as you can probably guess, is where the car with nearly twice the Elise's power pulled ahead. The Elise was very planted and easy to control in the corners, but the S2000 had more solid acceleration. (And it was more fun to drive too.)

    I apologize to any Lotus Elise fans, but the S2000 wins my vote.
     
  15. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Lotus Elise 1996 versus Honda S2000 2006

    Elise
    408pp
    37,600cr
    1796cc
    118bhp/16.8torques (Rover K 4 cylinder DOHC)
    7000redline
    755kg (42:58)
    3726x1701x1148mm
    MR (7/30/15 Ramp Angles)
    Comfort Soft Tyres
    12 chips (I chose... New Aluminium Metallic, so I could smile, thinking of the North Americans trying to say Aluminium.)

    Honda S2200
    423pp
    37,800cr
    2156cc
    238bhp/22.5Torques
    8000 redline
    1250kg (50:50)
    4135x1750x1285mm
    FR (5/20/10 Ramp angles)
    Comfort Soft Tyres
    11chips - (I chose... Deep Burgundy Metallic - No Dark Green... But you have Moon Cheese Metallic?)

    ---------

    Initial thoughts.
    The "out of the box" Elise vs the honed 7 years of development S2000... (Really? Why not S2200 to reflect the fatter less powerful powerplant? Less powerful... Golly gosh Honda what you need to do is team up with McLaren...oh...)

    The Elise is an Icon. An extremely modest Rover K Engine (Out of the front of the Rover 100 econ-o-box city car) placed into back of an Elise which then had at least 400 pounds of Lightness lovingly poured into it. If you know anything about Lotus, then you will know you need to either be a girl or else a girl sized man to enjoy the ergonomics of the Elise. Cramped and wonky cockpit come as standard. But in GT6 land I can squeeze my lardy frame into the front seat - Must be a Norfolk thing.

    Lets go to Suzuka for a test lap or three.
    Lotus Elise
    Car felt great to drive but the obvious bugbear was the lack of grunt. In the twisties it is top tier stuff... nimble as a Belorussian gymnast on the asymetric bars.


    Looks -
    Has that cute face of a childs toy - It beams at you "I'm for fun!" But has a sporty cheeky look. The Side scoop is from the same school as last weeks Tommykaira Zedzedeyeeye - And just pulls the looks of the car down a notch. The toy like aspect is enhanced with the very short length of the car.


    The Honda S2200
    Car felt good, obviously it was much more "tubby" after the Elise, But it had the power of 238 Maria Sharapova serves under the bonnet. (Lots of Grunt!)... the engine is pleasingly mechanical - but wasn't it better with 1000 more revs on tap?
    Drive? It reminded me of an odd thing... Balance a broom on your hand vertically - (Bristles up!) Pretty easy to keep it that way but quite a bit of work when you lose the balance... The Comfort Tyres were pretty hard pressed as well... If you do take it to the edge expect to overwork the tyres, But despite that the car is great fun to drive - with an engine that is up for the fight.

    ...

    So how to split these two? It is a balancing act - does the Bargain Bin engine in the Lotus make it so lacking in speed a portly Honda can beat it? 495kg.... That is about 65% the weight of the Elise! (Maybe 64% - quite alot anyhow) But the Honda has more than twice the powah...
    And on PP scores the Elise is a huge 15PP down... Can it really beat the Modern drive by wire Honda?
    Can a Good little'n, beat a Good Big'n?

    Let's have a Fight.
    *** ROUND 1 ***
    Price -
    37,600Kazulas - Elise
    37,800kazukas - S2200
    Very close first round - Too close to call, but 200 Kazulas that can buy 4 Visits to the Car Wash - "Please take this to your car care professional - Have an A-1 day!"
    Elise10 (10) S2200 9(9)

    *** ROUND 2 ***
    Chips -
    12 chips (Elise)
    11 Chips (S2200)
    Another close round - But again the Elise just takes the round.
    Elise 10 (20) S2200 9(18)

    *** ROUND 3 ***
    Suzuka GP circuit - Fast Lap
    2m36.357 (Elise)
    2m35.268 (S2200)

    A Fight back by the Honda on its home track. The key factor to me was the lack of outright speed from the Lotus - On the flat out sections that Rover K "hand me down" engine really was the weakest link.
    Elise 9(29) S2200 10(28)

    *** ROUNDS 4/5/6/7 ***
    GT Compact Championship-

    *** ROUND 4 ***
    Race 1-IniMgniRnmutuA -
    44.663 - 2m15.861 (Elise)
    46.078 - 2m19.994 (S2200)
    Autumn Ring Mini in reverse... the S2200 struggled to get the lap nailed, the Elise felt like it was on rails and was much easier to navigate through the other five cars on the grid.
    Elise 10(39) S2200 8(36)

    *** ROUND 5 ***
    Race 2-Cape Ring Inside
    64.103 - 3m14.596 (Elise)
    63.007 - 3m13.088 (S2200)
    A more open track and the Big H was able to show off its power and the Little L had no twisty bits to press home its strengths.
    Elise 9(48) S2200 10(46)

    *** ROUND 6 ***
    Race 3-Suzuka East Course
    60.282 - 3m05.153 (Elise)
    61.005 - 3m06.984 (S2200)
    Almost a surprise that the Elise could stealthe win on Honda's home circuit, but the East layout is Corner Rich and the Elise was in its Element...
    Elise 10(58) S2200 9(55)

    *** ROUND 7 ***
    (Overall Times - GT Compact Championship)
    2m49.048 - 8m35.610 (Elise)
    2m50.090 - 8m40.066 (S2200)

    Big result here for the Elise - On more cramped tracks the tiny Elise is able to dance over the corners not letting the Big S2200 unleash its eye wateringly brutal power.
    Elise 10(68) S2200 9(64)

    *** ROUND 8 ***
    Looks
    It is all subjective - But the Elise is a cute Kitten of a cat. The S2200 is the Suzuki Cappucinos bigger less stylish cousin.
    Elise 10(78) S2200 9(73)

    *** ROUND 9 ***
    Toot Toot
    The Elise has a pretty feeble beep beep. The Honda is much better in the horn department.
    Elise 9(87) S2200 10(83)

    *** ROUND10 ***
    Brum Brum
    The Rover K in the Lotus is desperately mundane. The F22C in the front of the S2200 is crisp mechanical and inspirational.
    Elise 8(95) S2200 10(93)

    Elise (95) S2200 (93)
    Winner, the Lotus Elise.

    But maybe I only needed one question...
    Does it come in Dark Green paint...?

    I've only done 25 miles on these two... so I may have a rematch as the Lil' Elise is super fun and you practically "think" it round corners, the S2200 is no Elise, but on anything other than a twisty track, it should beat the Lotus due to pure power.
     
  16. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    0 Title Card.jpg
    1996 Lotus Elise vs 2006 Honda S200 Review/Comparison
    "What does 10 years of progress mean for the roadster market? Let's find out..."

    image.jpeg

    This week we have two cars only really separated by their drivetrains. The lotus is the first-series model in a very popular line of poor-man's supercars (Jk). The Lotus Elise is a car well known for being able to punch much above its weight, and having the same name as a certain princess Sanic tried to pork in a hilariously bad bestiality side-plot from a hilariously bad game. The Honda is a front-engine, 2-seat roadster with the power going right where you want it, behind the driver. Both cars are very similar in the "more is less" approach, so let's see who can pull ahead in this one.

    1 Test Drive and Lap Times.jpg

    This instance, I took the cars down to a circuit named "Jack's Meck". (I'm not joking)

    upload_2016-1-14_18-20-43.png

    The track is pretty long, it has some hills too. Welcome to the TPE.

    Here, at least I could get a good feel for the cars.
    The Lotus felt nice to corner, if you don't turn too much to one direction. The S2000 feels way more understeer-y, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It's much more planted than the Lotus and is easier to corner.

    and the times are in!
    Lotus Elise: 3:27.856
    Honda S200: 3:21.642
    Gap +6 seconds

    The Honda is much faster up and down the hills, so it wins here...

    2 Drag Race.jpg

    This was honestly a no-contest situation. The Honda S2000 with it's more powerful engine and better gearbox wins this drag race.

    3 Paint Chips.jpg

    The Lotus won here by far, it has 1 more paint chip than the Honda, has less shades and more colours, and has Racing Green, so.....

    4 Customization.jpg

    I think the lotus wins for Customization. I didn't really check the stuff, and I'm going off memory, but I like the way the factory wing and bodykits look together.

    5 Tuning.jpg

    Both cars have full tuning-ness, moooooving on...

    6 Sound.jpg

    The Lotus kind of puts me to sleep, it's completely unremarkable and sluggish. The Honda I like because of the zippy, high revline and tonnes of character.

    7 Design and Styling.jpg

    I think I'll give this to the Elise. I like the obscure supercar look of it. Even though it is not very obscure anymore, I've always loved the original Elise's styling.

    8 Drifting and Online Popularity.jpg

    Honda wins the drifting battle, but I think the Lotus is better for tuning and PP racing under 500, 550 or even sometimes 400pp categories. I give a point to each.

    9 Final Thoughts.jpg

    While the old Elise is a great looking, bang for your buck, fun roadster, the Honda S2000... Is almost the exact same?

    So you know what that means...

    Time to roll out the ol' card
    Brand Bias.jpg

    Yes, that's right! Welcome back to ye old brand bias corner... So I hereby declare, the car with the heritage, the car with the looks, the car with the driving pleasure,
    the LOTUS ELISE
    king of this week's Review/Comparison...
    Looks can be deceiving, and that seems to be the case with the Lotus Elise. Most other member's lap times reflect that the Lotus, if given the opportunity on the right track can square off against the S2000 easily. So I guess 10 years of difference isn't that big of a deal after all. The old dog's still got it, and if you can spare some credits for some new tricks, it will make you roll over and bark in excitement!​





    And the verdict is...
    Buy an LCR Rocket for all your overpowered needs.

    Have a great Friday! :cheers:


     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
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  17. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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  18. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    I decided to start taking stat sheets from beyond the apex if that helps anyone. Let me know what you think if you want me to keep this around or not. I'll have this here at the start of each week for people stopping by the thread who don't have the app to check up on their facts.

    image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
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  19. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    The lightweight Elise. The poor man's supercar, the mid-engined compact. Call it what you will, this car is truly an interesting one. It has a lot less power than the S2000 rival, but weighs a lot lighter. Weight aside, the Elise has a bunch of paint chips that spans a variety of colors. Performance wise it's quite a character in the corners, and that's pretty much the only advantage this car has over the S2000. On the straights is where it struggles, since it has lower power. I'm unsure what to think of this one, so moving on.....

    When I first seen the S2000 I thought that it was merely a Miata competitor. It is anything but that. I own a few of these in GT6 and my reason why is that it's simply amazing. Very responsive handling thanks to the 50:50 weight distribution, and the power makes this a competitor on the straights. The colors are, well the slight weakness to this, but the Nürburgring Blue color choice is nice. As you can probably tell, my choice between these two is.....

    The S2000

    Both cars were tested on this track, no aids except ABS: 1.

    Elise: 3:07.787
    S2000: 3:10.033

    And the votes:

    S2000: 2
    Elise: 2

    You know what that means.....

    Sudden Death

    Both cars tested once more on the same track. After one lap, here are the final times:

    Elise: 3:07.914
    S2000: 3:10.285

    And the winner is.....

    [​IMG]

    The '96 Elise!!!

    Sorry, I was in a bit of a hurry with my review, so I had to type up something quick. Anyways, 30 weeks down, many more to come. Come back tomorrow for the next Duel of the Week!​
     
  20. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    This week's duel was brought up by a person who has contributed a great deal to this thread. The two cars will probably seem wierd to deal with, so this week's duel is.....

    [​IMG]
    The 2003 Callaway C12

    vs

    [​IMG]
    The 2000 Pagani C12!!!

    (Thanks to @MrWaflz55 for the suggestion)

    Having already driven these two a number of times, I can already determine the winner. But let's hear what you have to say. Cast your votes, and let the battle begin!​
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
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  21. Ryk

    Ryk

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    I'll put all my money on the C12 winning this one.
     
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  22. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    @Ryk ayyy lmao :lol:

    image.jpeg image.jpeg

    Although I haven't gotten to the review, based on the stats, I wouldn't count the Callaway out just yet...
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
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  23. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Having just tested both cars, I unfortunately would.

    This matchup kinda reminds me of a game I played on my PS2 in the early 2000's. I found out about it via a DVD of The Fast and the Furious, and a summer or two later, I found it at a flea-market booth at one of the local expos. It featured all sorts of supercars, but the biggest selling point was the fact that you could create your own supercar as well. If any of you guys remember Supercar Street Challenge, I'm talking about that game. The game featured both the Callaway C12 and the Pagani Zonda C12S. Since the Callaway is going up against the C12S's more easygoing twin, and the fact that I feel like revisiting some memories, I'm going to be doing two duels. In SSC, the Pagani Zonda C12S was in the same division as the Saleen S7, so I'll pit those two together as well.

    I guess you could say it's a. . . dual duel?

    *thunderous booing*

    Okayokayokay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I won't do that again.

    Division 1: Callaway C12 vs. Pagani Zonda C12 - The Actual Duel

    In one corner, we have a supercar that's heavily based on the C5 Corvette, and in the other, a Mercedes V12 powered Italian supercar by the (then) newcomer, Pagani. I will say, the Callaway is a little easier on the eyes, but performance-wise, it comes up short against the Zonda.

    Mountain Trial:
    Callaway C12 - 1:50.959
    Zonda C12 - 1:42.810

    City Trial:
    Callaway C12 - 1:36.582
    Zonda C12 - 1:30.983

    To illustrate how much quicker the Zonda was than the Callaway, on lap 2 of the Mountain Trial, I made quite an egregious error on the beginning chicane, and lost a good six seconds behind my previous lap. I finished that lap at 1:49.372, which was still faster than the Callaway's best lap by at least a second and a half. The Callaway is almost 250 kilos heavier than the Zonda, and it really makes an impact on the handling. On the downhill section of the Rotenboden, I had trouble slowing the car down enough to take the sharp uphill left at the bottom of the hill in this car. The Callaway also washes out on long corners, but thanks to the 45 extra horsepower it has, it also fishtails when you hit the gas, forcing you to poke at the gas pedal on tight corners. The Zonda is far more planted and composed. It stays planted in technical sections without being understeery, but also encourages you to be a little reckless with the gas pedal on long corners without flinging you into a wall.

    The Pagani Zonda C12 wins this duel.

    Division 2: Saleen S7 vs. Pagani Zonda C12S - The Bonus Duel

    Steve Saleen was really keen on making his first original car a really great machine. He actually made the prototype of the S7 as a LeMans racer, before making the street legal one. This car truly fits the definition of supercar. Aggressive styling, loads of power, loads of fun in the corners, the works. Facing this car in this duel is the Zonda C12S. This is the twin to the Zonda C12, only the Mercedes V12 was made into a more ill-tempered AMG V12, and the body was composed entirely of carbon to try and offset the increase in weight. How well do these cars fare against one another? Let's find out.

    Mountain Trial:
    Saleen S7 - 1:41.889
    Zonda C12S - 1:40.333

    City Trial:
    Saleen S7 - 1:29.420
    Zonda C12S - 1:28.903

    This was definitely the hotter battle, with the times being much closer. Both cars are one Performance Point apart, the Saleen is slightly more powerful than the Zonda, but this time the Zonda is heavier by about 100 kilos. The Zonda was still more planted than the Saleen, but the extra power and weight made it more temperamental. You have to be more careful on the gas when you're in corners than when you're with the more easy-going twin. It isn't quite as angry as the Saleen though. The Saleen certainly feels fast, like you're riding a bull, but much like a bull, the S7 can be a handful to control as well. You don't have to worry about understeer this time, but taking it easy on the gas will ensure a smoother journey. But, I feel that the Zonda is still easier to control, and that's why it won this duel as well.

    The Pagani Zonda C12S wins this duel, making a back-to-back victory for the Pagani Zonda!

    Though I do miss the magnificent growl it had in Gran Turismo 3.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  24. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Am I alone in having more fun with the Zonda C12 than its faster siblings? Its light weight of just 1,250 kg combined with a 6.0L Mercedes-built V12 that puts out 387 hp and 420 ft-lbs of torque is a perfect match. It controls extremely well at the stock level. It has more torque than the Callaway and weighs 500 lbs less. So it's no contest. Zonda wins by 4 seconds at Mid-Field.


     
  25. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    The Zonda C12 was super-fun to drive. Definitely keeping that in my garage.
     
  26. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    All Zondas are top notch from handling aspect imho, so not any question which I like more from this duel vs Gallaway which isn't a bad car but Zonda is GREAT!
     
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  27. Ryk

    Ryk

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    C12 vs C12

    ---

    Wow this is a mixed bag of cars. The Zonda is ... striking, it has character and has a bold look.
    The Callaway - looks like a weaponized Corvette - super sleek. I half expect it to have a large USAF decal on the side of the doors and the driver to flounce out of it with a jetfighter babygrow and a pair of dodgy RayBan aviators on.

    I know both are fast. The Zonda is a car that has a challenging look to it. It isn't beautiful but it is striking and memorable... It uses a customer engine, but then again so does many a great car. (McLaren F1, TVR Griffith, AC Cobra, Caterham 7... Hmm alot of English cars in that list - German, British, American and Japanese engines.)

    Again from the looks I'd expect the Pagani to be better in the twisty bits due to its squarer posture and mid engine layout, maybe more tricky for the novice wheelsmith. The Callaway should be more stable in turns with a longer look to it.

    --------
    Looks (memory)
    The Zonda is a ground breaker, the look is powerful and has a robotic Cyberdyne Systems like feel to its use of bold straight lines. It looks like it was sent from the future to do some sort of wicked thing.

    The Callaway is like a polished jewel. Based on an already sleek car they made this even sleekier Like a starship being pulled into the gravity well of a black hole. It looks slightly out of proportion Like a Professional Female Basketball player - but don't be fooled into thinking it is a tottering supermodel on platform point shoes.

    ---
    Firstly the Zonda is known for its real life comedy colours, Lime green, Shaolin Orange. Silver is the only chip you get in GT6. If you do choose to paint the car you will have to endure a few gripes the rear wing flap and the bottom of the car has a black trim that remains black whatever you do. This detail work only gets worse with the more developed versions of the Zonda.
    I myself chose to respray the car in Lamborghini's Nero Nemesis - the darkest shade of black and it has a matt effect too. This however made the light grey wheels stand out so I swapped them out for Ray's 57 Ultimates which I then powdercoated in the same Nero Nemesis as the car...

    Looks the Zonda has an exagerated "Cab Forward" design and cluster of design details - a central quad exhausts contained in a circular chromed bezel, High 'A' pillar mounted door mirrors, Small twin side by side headlamps. Twin rear lamps mounted over and under.


    The Callaway.
    Looks are odd, It has a long lean flow to it that makes the original C5 seem truncated and stubby... which is odd as the Corvette evokes long and lean. The Callaway is longer, wider and lower. It has much more of a classical look to it, but what car doesn't look reserved and understated next to a Zonda. (Horacio Pagani was the guy who made the 25th Anniversary Countach look full Big Top Circus, with the strakes and vents and overall bloated 80's excess look.)

    *** Speed test***
    I took the pair to the Route X emporium of velocity.

    The Callaway was first up and that gearbox was - trouble. The car could only really use 5th gear. Under it's own steam the car could punch over 200mph and cruise along at 202mph. IF you tried for 6th the car would slow down like you dropped an anchor... it is such a Tall gear I half expected it to catch its head on low bridges... Obviously this gear is for fooling miles per gallon fuel tests as you'd only use it when you are in a slipstream behind a car doing over 210mph... My initial thought was a better gearbox would get more from the engine and maybe 5-10 more MPH as you could use a more powerful bit of the 6th gear powerband, rather than a place that isn't.

    The Zonda
    The giveaway was the Speedo only went up to 160mph...
    The car blasted off nice enough but it just ran out of power and gears at 180. You can run 200rpm beyond the red line in top gear in clean air to notch up a top speed of 186mph - IF you get a slipstream you can get up to 195mph before the ultimate rev limiter kills the throttle.


    ---------
    Engine note.
    5 and 2/3 litre V8 vs a 6 litre V12....
    The Zonda is a bit musical - an odd sound that I don't really equate to a powerful engine. V12's should sound great - all burbly and powerful. (Matra V12 - Weslake V12 maybe a Honda RA301 Engine or a Cerbera Speed 12... For whatever reason the Merc 6 litre sounds more Musical than anything. Maybe you enjoy Musicals, I don't. The Callaway has a good old V8 and it sounds like a solid "nascar style" racing V8 - Not as good as a Cosworth DFV but it fits the Cally very well.

    --------

    Paint Chips
    This one is a slam dunk for the Cally - 5 chips isn't many but it is 4 more than Pagani. The Cally has a Nice shade of Yellow but a stunning deep dark purple shade Enzia Blau (something like that). Neither have Dark Green, but a Deep Purple is good for some smoke on the water.

    Price...
    The Callaway is an Expensive 175880... the Zonda is 388,720 - much more than twice the price.

    Performance Points
    This is an odd one but the Cally is under 500pp - which lets you run it stock in a cluster of races. the Zonda is 20pp fatter, so you can't run the 500pp events which limits what you can do with it. 20pp is quite alot but when it crosses a PP threshold you have to give alot of respect to the underdog car... In this case the Cally which so far has drubbed the Pagani at every turn Except the "Which car would Mooky the Clown use to drive to the Circus in? (With 5 of his mates inside too)"

    ....
    Zoinks The Zonda is losing the fight here... But there is one place all the above matters little. the track. If the Callaway has a couple of American Sized portions of understeer and that gearbox takes the edge off it's racing performance the Zonda could make a comeback victory. Mid-Engine, Lighter, More Torquey bigger engine should give it every advantage on a race track that doesn't hang its hat on top speed - But it will need to mush the face of that Callaway into the dirt at every chance...

    ---

    Next day -
    As my Internet conenction keeps kicking me off PSN I'll have to run a Normal race, but as the Zonda is a Fat boy in terms of PP I'll have to run a race that puts the Callaway at a huge disadvantage...

    LaSarthe 2013 - 3 laps in the Supercar Festival
    (Open to all cars under 630pp - Pirelli Ultra Soft tyres)
    (I'll stick with Sport Hards)
    (Love the intro music here!)

    (ABS=0 TCS=0 DS3 (Sticks) -
    Track limits all wheels inside the white lines at all times -
    No curbs, no run offs, no corner cuts, no hitting other cars -

    Zonda C12
    4m29.064 (3rd lap)
    Car felt a bit juddery - the whiny engine note warbling over the bumps. The car felt a bit loose in places, not drilling corners and a bit vague - but this is high speed track on Hard tyres. The Brakes didn't slow me down as well as I first expected and I ended up in the kitty litter at Mulsanne but I managed a clean laps after that faux pas.

    Callaway C12
    4m39.660 (2nd lap)
    The Callaway sounded great but the first big factor was the haphazard gear ratios... 5th and 6th are far too long and that strangled any chance of the car leaping out of the corners.

    ....

    So The Zonda is much more nimble on even a long longed Le Mans layout. But the Callaway has the advantage in every other area? Which do you pick?

    Not an easy choice as the negative points of both cars stand out to me.
    Naff Gearbox ratios, (C12)
    Clowncar looks (C12)
    Comprehesive shade of Silver Paint chip collection (C12)
    "V12: the Musical" Engine note. (C12)
    Much slower on a pucker track. (C12)
    Much slower in a straight line, (C12)
    Eyewateringly expensive.(C12)​

    Some points are minor but some are huge.

    Quick recap - as I am confused myself over which car I actually like and enjoy the most.

    Round 1 Price
    (C12) 388,720
    (C12) 175,880

    Round 2 Chips
    (C12) 1
    (C12) 5

    Round 3 Top Speed
    (C12) 186mph
    (C12) 202mph

    Round 4 Looks
    The C12 is striking, but so is a milk float.
    The C12 is a graceful swan of a car - not a car I would normally prefer but this time...
    I'd have to give this to the C12 as it is less pantomime ugly than the C12.

    Round 5 Engine Note
    The C12's Mercedes V12 sounds awful.
    The tweaked LS1 V8 in the C12 sounds rich and authentic.

    Round 6 LeMans
    (C12) 4m29
    (C12) 4m39

    Round 7 Fun to drive
    I have to edge the C12 on this. it may be a bit sloppy on turn in but the engine is smooth and the gearbox is nicely chosen. The (C12) feels awkward in turns but those gear ratios feels like they dropped the ball at getting the most from the engine. (If you swap to a generic 6 speed gearbox, then the car is a step up in drivability but oddly the speedo drops down to the bad 160mph one the C12 has!)

    Miles driven
    57 Miles (C12)
    68 Miles (C12)


    ----------

    All things balanced out... I'd pick the Callaway
    - I'd lose every race against the Zonda save at Vmax tracks. But I dislike the Zonda more than I enjoy to drive it.
    The Zonda never looked good and it sounds awful, a V12 Engine only getting up to 6,000 rpm...tut tut

    But the Callaway has that lame gearbox mystery mix of ratios. I can fix that easily - I can't alter the gopping looks of the Zonda.
     
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  28. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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  29. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    0 Title Card.jpg
    2003 Callaway C12 vs 2000 Pagani Zonda C12 Review/Comparison
    ♫They call me C12, that's not my name, that's not my name, that's-not-my-name♫

    Welcome to this week of GT6 car review versus comparison rant test thing. This week we have one of my favourite cars of all time, the C12 vs the other C12. Which C12 will win over the other C12? let's find out.

    image.jpeg


    Before we begin, let's take a little history lesson. The Pagani Zonda is a supercar designed by the Italian car designer Horacio Pagani. He worked up his way through the chain of automobiles and along his way learned valuable information about car construction from Lamborghini. He applied these techniques to make a car that would rival even the great names of Porche and Ferrari. Fast forward to today and the Zonda is featured in some form in just about every racing game ever made. It refuses to die, with a special edition one-off model for some billionaire in Dubai coming out every so often.

    The Callaway C12 comes from a legendary company known for their insane tunes of Chevrolet vehicles. The C12 was made by taking the body of the venerable Corvette C5 and making an entirely new shell around it. This new, coach-built corvette was ready to take on any European supercar coming it's way.

    Now, let's get into the review.

    1 Test Drive and Lap Times.jpg

    This time, my PS3 needed a system update, so I couldn't log into PSN. I decided to select the Nurburgring GP/D. This track doesn't get used much by me, so I decided to give it some love.
    The Callaway just feels so terrible to turn. To put it bluntly, it's just a brick. Even though it only weighs 1,400kg or somewhere around that, the R8 4.2 turns way better than this thing. Understeer, Understeer. Need I say more?
    The Zonda C12 might as well be my favourite handling car in the game. It follows where you want it to go. The connection between you, the car and the controller is almost telepathic. I'd feel comfortable going up against an Aventador in this car.

    The times are in!
    Zonda C12: 1:40.074s
    Other C12: 1:44.260s
    Gap: +4.186s

    Point to the Zonda

    2 Drag Race.jpg

    The drag strip I normally go to was closed, because update so I went to SSRX instead. The challenge here was who could get to the first signpost the fastest, then to see who could finish the first straight at the highest speed. With both cars on the line I took off. The Zonda got the lead early due to the sluggish gearing of the C12. It beat the Callaway to the first signpost by about a second and a bit. The C12 expectedly took the lead after, but it went up to sixth gear, so it dropped down to 292km/h while the Zonda stayed at 299km/h, Keep in mind I am using Auto because I have two controllers at once. So the Zonda wins this one too.

    3 Paint Chips.jpg

    The Zonda has an astounding 1 paint chip. Silver is nice, but as seen above I prefer my Zondas coloured. The C12 has a few options, like yellow, red and two blues. The Callaway wins this round.

    4 Customization.jpg

    The Callaway has custom wings only. The Zonda however has +1 up a rim size, so they cancel each other out.

    5 Tuning.jpg

    Both are pretty much equal for tuning. I would let the Callaway win for having the option for wings, but this is a stock comparison test, so neither wins here.

    6 Sound.jpg

    I have to go against some other people's opinions and say the Zonda sounds very nice. It's faithful to the real life version, although somewhat digitized. The tunnel sound with the stock Zonda exhaust is also insane. I also like how it sounds at the low revs. The Callaway has one of those stock V8 Supercar sounds that just makes me wish GT Sport got here faster. Zonda wins this one.

    7 Design and Styling.jpg

    If you read the post by me here on the make your own DLC pack for GT6 thread:​
    you would know what kind of guy I am. I do enjoy my obscure, bonkers looking supercars. The Zonda used to be obscure, and I love everything about it. I love the Quad exhaust, the wedge design and the crazy interior. The Callaway also looks nice, but it feels somewhat stuck between a C5 and C6 Vette.

    Zonda wins this one.

    8 Drifting and Online Popularity.jpg

    I thought I would've enjoyed the C12. It's RWD, the right weight, and the right power to be a drift king. I tried very much to like it, but the turn-in ruins everything. The same faults from the lap test comes back and bites it's arse in the final round. The Zonda, if given patience and throttle control can become a decent drift car. This is also why I have never seen the Callaway online, nobody wants to go near the corners with it.
    point to the Zonda.

    9 Final Thoughts.jpg

    Surprise, my favourite car in the game behind the Ferrari 458 was the Pagani Zonda! Who would have guessed? The Callaway might be able to fill a certain niche for someone, somewhere. But not today.

    The Zonda takes this one home.

    And of course the verdict.

    Would you like to supersize that Zonda?
    upload_2016-1-23_13-9-53.png + upload_2016-1-23_13-10-32.png = upload_2016-1-23_13-11-7.png

    Maybe coming to this thread soon?

     
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  30. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Sorry guys I can't get my review up tonight because of my archery tournament today. I'll try for early tomorrow.

    Edit: never mind ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
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