TWIN MOTEGI TESTS
photonrider:
Car A: 577PP 594 HP
1R1A/ABTC1 : P12 3:23.188
2R2A/ABTC1 : P16 3:29.626
3R3A/ABTC1 : P7 3:21.573
4R4B/ABTC1/PTP : P13 3:22.573
5R5B/ABTC1/PIH : P7 3:17.655
Subjective:
Gearing/Acceleration/Top Speeds/Handling/Cross-weight/Traction/Braking/Engine sounds/Tyre squeal:
My primary NASCAR vehicle is Edwards' 2013 Fusion.
In GT6 I've tried the 2013 Gordon Chevy and the '11 Denny Hamlin, but didn't like the feel of them so much as the '13 Fusion and have since used that car whenever I need a NASCAR race car.
I start the Johnson Chevy - and right there there's a difference. It
starts different, revs different - unlike the Fusion which sounds like someone threw a mason jar and a chrome-vanadium 9mm on a concrete floor at the same time someone started a retro LM.
Later on I found that Kyle's car starts different, too.
Race 1 - I'm now weirded-out by the engine sound - muted, jet-like at the higher revs and the gearing was all over the place for me. I couldn't get it up to speed as quickly as I wanted and was missing gears by the time I entered T1.
I drive manual so this was immediately apparent to me - I have done this track many times as a grinder in Carl's Fusion - in fact so at home with this pack at this track that I usually just hang in the bunch learning to bump, draft and lovingly grind until the finish line. Most often than not we all come home in under 2 seconds - a nice way to release some tension and rewind.
But JJ's car threw me off completely. It was nothing like I was used to.
I found that I could catch the pack, though, and though the car wouldn't rotate the way the Fusion did, (and lots of squeal from this car) with precision cornering I could get tremendous speed exiting a corner and the car then starts reeling up that tremendous momentum that this particular car has. I kept running out of track.
But precision means twitchy - and I was spun-out by the slightest touch in the middle of the pack and was put into the wall, spun and left to dry while everybody kept going like a herd of turtles. Recovered and went after them - and if undisturbed this car has 'catching up' power like you wouldn't believe. Managed a P12
I was approaching this as a 'handling test' - not a 'fastest overall time' challenge so wasn't too much in a hurry - flying laps could be done.
Second race - I was now on to the difference in gearing and was more used to the different engine sound so was more precise. Finally got the hang of the car and was in third going into the final straight in lap 5. They gang-banged me - I couldn't control the car, spun like a ballerina several times and came in P16.
Third race - now I knew
I had to race like JJ. I had to get in front with this thing and stay in front - and if I could get in front this thing would stay in front. I had to stay out of trouble. just like JJ.
Something else was happening though - the rabbits were changing their behaviour - getting more aggressive and deliberately blocking me or trying to take me out.
I drove carefully, took advantage of the gears better, cornered a little better, got into the pack, and was sandwiched between them coming across the line. P7.
By now I was beginning to
like this car. I knew I could win with this car. It took patience and precision. This car was fast.
Verdict? This car is the classic oval NASCAR racer. Built for high-speed, 500 mile races. Lovely car when you step into JJ's boots.
What was Hotchkiss's verdict? Well I'm not sure my B-Spec Bob is subjective - but I could tell he was confused with the car - he was not sure whether to love it or hate it.
Car B: 578PP 594 HP
6R1A/ABTC1 : P1 3:12.237
7R2A/ABTC1 : P1: 3:12.448
8R3A/ABTC1 : P1: 3:10.999
9R4B/ABTC1/PTP : P13 3:21.539
10R5B/ABTC1/PIH : P13: 3:22.888
Subjective:
Gearing/Acceleration/Top Speeds/ Handling/Cross-weight/Traction/Braking/Engine sounds/Tyre squeal:
Took Kyle's car out - noticed PP difference to JJ's, started it - noticed different starting sound, entered race and immediately felt I was in another car. If I was to take a blind test not knowing which car I was driving I could identify which of these two cars I was driving.
Kyle's car is built for extreme agility - the suspension working to keep the car stable yet frisky. Hardly any squeal, and the car felt lighter. ? Bottom-end acceleration and the torque band is tuned for fast and risky maneuvers. In comparison JJs car was laggy and any sudden movements would upset the car.
The best way I could describe Kyle's car is this is the NASCAR car I would pick if I was doing a 'Commander' or Pace car' AI Event.
First race - suddenly Bush cars were all over the place in the field given. Fought them off easily and gleefully - this car could be called the 'Artful Dodger'. A nice bit of clean pack-racing and brought it in comfortably - P1. A huge difference to the first race in JJs car.
Second race - I was ready for them - but they were even more stubborn and even got outright aggressive to the point that NASCAR would have blown the whistle - but Kyle's car can dance on a dime.
I extricated myself cleanly from the zombie sharks and concentrated on the 3 flying laps noting speeds and braking - cornering was tight and controlled, very slight squeal, but not as fast around the corner the way the JJ car could take a corner if held on a razor-line.
The JJ car took T3 & T4 at 131 MPH at the apex - the Camry only got it up to 127. Top speed was strange - the Camry wasn't as fast as the SS - but drafted better and got higher top speeds that way.
This is NASCAR's short-track car.
Tight ovals, twisty glens, monster miles - this car will fly through the pack in the hands of a driver like Kyle. Which means to drive this car the way Kyle drives - you must have one motto. 'No Fear.'
Keeping this in mind I entered the 3rd race as aggressively as Kyle, blowing through the pack like a hawk on steroids, getting my fastest time on this track in this car.
NASCAR's Godzilla.
Hotchkiss didn't do too bad, but not as well as he did in JJ's car. His fight was with the back-markers.
There is a strange pattern developing in the B-Spec behaviour around this - but I'll discuss that as a separate issue.
Car C: 578 PP 594 HP
11R1A/ABTC1 : P1 3:11.960
12R2A/ABTC1 : P1 3:11.137
13R3A/ABTC1 : P1 3:12.335
14R4B/ABTC1/PTP : P15 3:24.569
15R5B/ABTC1/PIH : P13 3:20.431
Subjective:
Gearing/Acceleration/Top Speeds:Handling/Cross-weight/Traction/Braking/Engine sounds/Tyre squeal:
After JJs 'tank' and Kyle's 'gt-r' Carl Edwards' car fuses the two beautifully well.
This is a middle-of-the-road all-round car. Again - the gearing was different, falling between JJs and Kyle's - subtle differences but so very well felt if one is a manual driver and is fairly sensitive to what the gears are doing.
The difference between Kyle's gearing and JJ's is clearly palpable, but the differences between Carl's and the other two is subtle because the gears are so well balanced between Kyle's and Jimmie's ratios.
Whatever the ratios are IRL we don't know. (Guess we can find out.)
The stats in the Transmission settings are all the same. So what does this mean?
Objectively -
statistically there is no difference. Practically - there is; it can be felt. I was so comfortable in Carl's car I could have back-flipped it - maybe into the safety fencing.
. Maybe even make it land on Brad.
Focusing on the braking (good - but not as good as JJ's) turning (stable, not as quick as JJ's but a tighter turn possible - the steering wheel angle for all three cars are different at the apex between T3 & 4) - this car was best at cross-weight transfer and pure stability. A bit of tyre squeal, a little more than Kyle's, but not as much as JJ's.
Hard to get Carl's car in trouble - whether driving in it or into it.
A middle -of-the-road NASCAR machine - this is a Cien in NASCAR livery.
Hotchkiss didn't like the car and was dawdling. Overall in JJ's car he improved his timing, in the other two he went down in the second race.
Are there differences to the cars?
Yes - a few
statistical differences found so far, but many subjective differences that cannot be proved - though maybe correlated by the other testers.
There are other tests we can carry out now, though, armed with the new info we have.
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BaronBlitzRed:
Car A: (Jimmie Johnson #48 Chevrolet SS)
1R1A/ABTC1 : (P1 03:14.162)
2R2A/ABTC1 : (P1 03:14.160)
3R3A/ABTC1 : (P1 03:17.673)
4R4B/ABTC1/PTP : (P14 03:21.228)
5R5B/ABTC1/PIH : (P16 03:21.543)
Subjective:
Gearing/Acceleration/Top Speeds: 291 kph with draft, 261 without
Handling/Cross-weight/Traction/Braking: Same as #24 car (only Nascar I used until this test)
Engine sounds/Tyre squeal: Strongest sounding of all 3
Car B: (Kyle Busch #18 Camry)
6R1A/ABTC1 : (P1 03:15.556)
7R2A/ABTC1 : (P1 03:13.168)
8R3A/ABTC1 : (P1 03:14.303)
9R4B/ABTC1/PTP : (P16 03:19.879)
10R5B/ABTC1/PIH : (P15 03:20.687)
Subjective:
Gearing/Acceleration/Top Speeds: 292kph with draft, 262 without
Handling/Cross-weight/Traction/Braking: Worst handling of all 3 cars
Engine sounds/Tyre squeal:
Car C: (Carl Edwards #99 Fusion)
11R1A/ABTC1 : (P1 03:14.649)
12R2A/ABTC1 : (P1 03:13.684)
13R3A/ABTC1 : (P1 03:13.372)
14R4B/ABTC1/PTP : (P16 03:21.680)
15R5B/ABTC1/PIH : (P10 03:19.325)
Subjective:
Gearing/Acceleration/Top Speeds: 286 kph with draft, 264 without
Handling/Cross-weight/Traction/Braking: Surprised... best handling of all 3
Engine sounds/Tyre squeal: Weakest sounding of all 3, but surprising performance!
Strange observation of the night...
JJ #48 Chevy SS ending odometer: 71km
KB #18 Camry ending odometer: 70km
CE #99 Fusion ending odometer: 69km
All cars started with 0.0km, no oil changes, virgin cars from my Stockyard moved to Garage for these races only today.
All cars ran with my usual Automatic Transmission for both A-Spec and B-Spec races.
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StirlingMoose:
Car A: 577 - 594
1R1A/ABTC1 : (P1 3:10.923)
2R2A/ABTC1 : (P1 3:10.567)
3R3A/ABTC1 : (P1 3:10.271)
4R4B/ABTC1/PTP : (P13 3:23.217)
5R5B/ABTC1/PIH : (P13 3:24.281)
Subjective:
Gearing/Acceleration/Top Speeds/Handling/Cross-weight/Traction/Braking/Engine sounds/Tyre squeal:
Car B: 578 - 594
6R1A/ABTC1 : (P1 3:10.949)
7R2A/ABTC1 : (P1 3:10.341)
8R3A/ABTC1 : (P1 3:11.130)
9R4B/ABTC1/PTP : (P3 3:19.277)
10R5B/ABTC1/PIH : (P16 3:22.671)
Subjective:
Gearing/Acceleration/Top Speeds/Handling/Cross-weight/Traction/Braking/Engine sounds/Tyre squeal:
Car C: 578 - 594
11R1A/ABTC1 : (P1 3:11.227)
12R2A/ABTC1 : (P1 3:11.640)
13R3A/ABTC1 : (P1 3:11.407)
14R4B/ABTC1/PTP : (P14 3:21.334)
15R5B/ABTC1/PIH : (P13 3:23.325)
Subjective:
Gearing/Acceleration/Top Speeds/Handling/Cross-weight/Traction/Braking/Engine sounds/Tyre squeal:
Regarding the subjective stuff, if this is a scientific test subjectivity shouldn’t really come into it, but I didn’t really notice much difference.
Car B felt a bit sluggish after car A but that was probably me getting a bit more familiar with the race and wanting it to go faster. It’s not borne out by the overall times.
Car C felt better, more like car A, but turned out to be the slowest. But that may have been down to me getting bored and trying to be more experimental. I think most of the time difference was in the first lap, getting through the traffic. In terms of speed traps/braking points I couldn’t notice any difference. I’ve saved all the replays.
Lord knows what Bob was up to. If that is pushing hard he’s not getting a drive in my team next season.
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Reports logged in as is - sent by testers.
Detailed analysis will follow after suitable discussion, spitting of streams of tobacco, and other hooch-related activities. Sleeves may be rolled up. Stay calm.
. . . so . . . what do you have in mind? Would it interfere with any other activities out there? (Don't want to step on anyone's toes, as well we want to spread the action around the Forums of course.)
