GT6 Sales Discussion

Gran Turismo 6 is nothing more than a maintenance release. It is not the definitive experience, the PS4 is here, how could it possibly be? Sony dropped one releasing this for the PS3, it should have been next gen all the way.

I have played GT since the first game, and I am a fan of the series, but Kaz's lack of empathy with his core fan-base is putting doubts in my mind. I am seriously considering buying into the Forza franchise, just for a change. I will always be a GT fan, and I will always buy the games, you do not give op on something that you have been playing for fifteen years, but the whole franchise is starting to stagnate a little, personally at least.
 
Unknown?
I think people are jumping the gun... I remember when GT5 launched and NPD reported what the game sold in North America to only be 700k and everyone was like GT FAIL IT'LL NEVER SELL AS MUCH AS THE PS1/PS2 VERSIONS. Then Polyphony released their statement stating GT5 sold 5.5 million on the first day and it shut everyone up. Of course the naysayers kept insisting it wouldn't hit 10 million and making excuses as to why it wasn't doing well when it was and look where we are today 10.6 million total with nearly 3 million in North America alone. Plus this only includes 3 days of sells and doesn't take into account all of the digital sells off of the PS Store.
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This one thousand times. 👍
 
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GT5 was a huge disappointment and small incremental improvements aren't going to win people back. With all the time and money PD gets from Sony this game should have startlingly realistic and competitive AI, a selection of current supercars so comprehensive it takes your breath away, a livery editor that lets you easily make works of art, and so many tracks that Kaz can't even remember them all. And of course adjustable difficulty so that the game provides a great challenge for the experienced racer and a fun time for the casuals.
 
You know what? A PS4 release would have alienated all of the PS3 owners who don't want/can't afford to upgrade to PS4, and instead of people complaining that PD dropped the ball by missing out on next gen, you'd have people complaining that they effectively would have to pay £400 just to play GT6. Basically, whatever PD had done on that front they would have taken flak from either one side of the community or the other. As it is, there are far more PS3 in circulation than PS4, so common sense dictates that you'll sell more games on the most common hardware. If you think the sales figures are bad with a PS3 release, imagine what they would have been like on PS4!
 
In fact PD should be very happy with these numbers. They managed to trick old fans like me and maybe new customers too. I can't even imagine how many would have left GT6 in the stores if they would have known how bad it is.

So good job PD. I hope that in GT7 we are able to drive in Mars. Star maps would be nice too. Maybe then we could use the stars to navigate back to finish line.
 
enog
You know what? A PS4 release would have alienated all of the PS3 owners who don't want/can't afford to upgrade to PS4, and instead of people complaining that PD dropped the ball by missing out on next gen, you'd have people complaining that they effectively would have to pay £400 just to play GT6. Basically, whatever PD had done on that front they would have taken flak from either one side of the community or the other. As it is, there are far more PS3 in circulation than PS4, so common sense dictates that you'll sell more games on the most common hardware. If you think the sales figures are bad with a PS3 release, imagine what they would have been like on PS4!
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So true. If the game was on PS4 the sales numbers would be horrific!! As it is only 1/7 PS3 owners on average were into GT5. That translates into sales of GT6 on PS4 to less than a million until well into next year. Most people on these boards would not be playing it because they wouldn't have a PS4. And the really funny thing is. If it was released now on PS4, it would be the same game, just on PS4. Some graphics issues would be fixed, other than that it would be the same AI, the same crappy career mode, the same crappy payouts, the same MicroTransactions. PS4 solves nothing but graphics issues, the rest is design and that's choice, not console related.
 
Metfanant
the problem is PD (and just about every Japanese developer for that matter) has completely lost touch with what the consumers want, and while they have faltered, their competition has continually gotten better and better...

people want customization, people want cars that sound like cars...they dont want to listen to elevator music in a driving game...most people find the inclusion of standard cars to be comical (it is)...people want real damage...they dont care if the damage is 100% accurately modeled in regards to real world physics...they want to see dents, and wings fly off, and shattered glass and the audio that goes with it

what makes GT popular for some, (particularly on these forums) like the "its a driving game, not a racing game" crowd or the "its about collecting cars" crowd...just doesn't fly with the general consumer and GT's sales will continue to fall, along with its review scores until Kaz realizes this...

to be honest Kaz is probably lucky that PD is a first party studio that has had mega success in the past, because a third party publisher would have booted him ages ago...

GT6 is a huge step in the right direction (in regards to the user experience compared to GT5) but the excitement isnt there...im enjoying the heck out of GT6...as someone that has owned every GT game back to the original i appreciate it for what it is...

but part of me wonders if im enjoying it simply because i chose to get a PS4 and NOT to get a Xbone at launch and have to miss out on Forza 5 (Forza 3 and 4 were much better "games" than GT5), and since im not a PC gamer GT6 is really my only sim option...

the average gamer did not grow up in the PS1 era...they grew up in the Xbox era with Project Gotham and Forza...to them GT is boring, they dont understand what the point of the standard cars is, they dont understand why there is no damage, they dont understand why the cars sound weird...

PD MUST...
- embrace customization for REAL...livery editor of ANY kind...more body/aero kits

- damage...doesnt matter if its real time and physics based...people want their cars to fall apart when they crash, even if its just for the "wow" factor

- sound...even if the sounds are not 100% audiophile accurate...V8's need to sound like V8's...race cars need to sound like race cars...

- standard cars must go...i dont care if it cuts the car count in half (or even worse)...you dont need the 99 and 02 Viper GTS (one as a standard, one as a premium) they are the SAME car in different color choices (except the 02 has ABS in real life)...we dont need a whole page of standard mid 2000 Honda S2000's...the single 2006 Premium version is enough...

- give us something more on the single player front...the old formula of just a list of races just isnt going to cut it anymore...we dont need a stupid contrived story to go with the single player, but there should be something...earn sponsorships as you go along (great way to tie in a basic livery editor)...grow rivalries with other drivers...form a race team (great way to incorporate B-Spec)...make me feel like im racing in a "season." have a calendar where i pick and choose races to enter throughout the season

- DELIVER your features...dont talk about stuff that wont be in the game...dont talk to me about a course editor that is 100x100km and then a month later its 50x50...then a month later its 10x10...then a month later it "wont be there day 1, but its coming!" Dont tell me you're "working on sound" but its not ready...no, stop doing things that are cool, but dont bring anything to the table (moon missions?) and get your work done!


there is so much more i could list, but this is the stuff that comes to mind right now...
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You deserve a medal man! For all the whining and crying I have seen on this forum, you are one of the few who actually says what is wrong with the GT series without resorting to nitpicking or name-calling. It it were up to me, I would chose you to write a personal letter to Kaz, for you are someone who voices the major opinion on this forum in a matter that is actually good and very understandable.

And this is from someone who actually LOVES GT6 to bits! For the first time, I understand the other side of the coin, for the first time, I actually nodded my head while reading, understanding exactly what people miss in GT. I am not one for pulling out sales numers, but this made me think. It doesn't change my love for GT, but it did change my perspective a bit.

Thanks a million, dude!
 
The only ones who should care about sales numbers, is Sony/PD. It makes no hill of beans to me whether it sells 1 copy or 1 billion copies. If it's a game I want to play, I'll buy it. If not, I don't

They followed the exact same formula with GT6 that they followed with every other GT version. I, and many others expected that:

GT1 on current console, GT2 at console mid-end life
GT3 on current console, GT4 at console mid-end life
GT5 on current console, GT6 at console mid-end life
GT7 on current console, GT8 at console mid-end life
etc, etc

Has there ever been a GT title released at the same time as a new console?

I only bought a PS2 for GT4 (I was late to the party), but bought a PS3 for GT5, and will buy a PS4 for GT7. It's a good formula which allows the console price to drop, and for PD to design a game for a console that is tried and tested to the most of it's ability
 
garbuckle
I only bought a PS2 for GT4 (I was late to the party), but bought a PS3 for GT5, and will buy a PS4 for GT7.
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Same thing here except I bought PS2 for GT3, but after this disappointment I'm not really sure if I dare to buy PS4 when GT7 comes out. There better be something very revolutionary or I'm going to skip that.
 
Not sure if anybody else has already said this, as i've not read entire thread.
The sales figures are NOT including digital downloads! I for one cancelled my pre-order with amazon the day it was revealed that GT6 ( for the very first time ) would be available digitally.
Seems alot of people have the digital version on this site, so I wouldn't be to presumptuous with the whole disastrous sales figures.
I reckon GT6 will do pretty well.
 
They should have made the game available for PS4 also.

But I think adding in the moon was way more important than anything else to Kaz this last few years
 
This is the first GT game I didn't buy.

Mainly because I recently picked up a PS4....and the fact that not much has changed since GT5. All I see GT6 is just an updated version with slightly better physycs with the same terrible engine sounds. That's enough right there to detract me.
 
I didn't see any actual numbers there.

The NeoGAF post said that Prologue sold 238k...but is sold 4mil+

The other article doesn't state what it's comparing? Is it 1/5 of total or 1/5 of GT5's first week? It's also only for the UK only, not world wide.

The public numbers for NFS are 400k across 5 SKU world wide...THAT is a disaster.

Keep in mind that the competition pays for bad press.
 
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magburner
Kaz's lack of empathy with his core fan-base is putting doubts in my mind. I am seriously considering buying into the Forza franchise, just for a change. I will always be a GT fan, and I will always buy the games, you do not give op on something that you have been playing for fifteen years, but the whole franchise is starting to stagnate a little, personally at least.
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Totally agree. Gameplay wise it's steadily declined since GT1. They simply do NOT listen to the fans.

I think they have ONE last chance to save the series and not lose out completely to Project Cars, Forza or any of the online PC sims. And that is GT7 for the PS4 - it better kick-ass or they will crumble even more.

GT6 is really GT 5.5. If they port over GT6 to the PS4 and call it GT7, they're doomed - we are not stupid.
 
At least i am not the only one who bought his consoles only for GT (1xPS,2xPS2,2xPS3)

Looks like i have to miss out on PS4/GT7...

I already wanted to leave GT6 in the shelf (i saw it coming that they would not improve the gameplay) but since i just updated to an SSD for GTA V and GT6 was availible for download i bet the 60€.
It was no total waste but for sure not enought to make me buy a PS4 for the next one.
 
(Preface: I posted this in another thread, but I feel that it belongs better here, I didn't know about this thread when I initially wrote it.)

The naysayers are out in full-force @ GTPlanet!

I feel like half of the people on this forum read the IGN review and never even played the game!

What people are forgetting, or maybe not realizing, is that GT has transcended the video game format. GT is now a full-blown "simulator." Yes, the "career" mode isn't "scripted," that's what I'm assuming people wanted. Instead the career mode provides races for those without internet connections for online gaming. So what if the AI isn't all that tough, GT still provides one the opportunity to drive amazing tracks with amazing physics with car's the average person would never have the means to drive. The scope of the game in unbelievable. Has anyone done the Moon Rover missions? Those missions blew my mind. Looking back on previous releases of GT, I still can't believe KY included that, or even considered to include that in the game. Also, look at the ties GT has to the automotive industry, that displays how relevant the game is to a much larger industry than video gaming. And look at the launch party that the game had in Spain... What games have ever taken over a city for its launch? That shows you how important the game is to Sony.

Perhaps there are alternatives on PC that might "feel" better, but a lot of people aren't shelling out $1K plus on a computer, then buying a premium wheel, for a game that costs a monthly fee.

As for sales... Remember that this game has been out for four days! People have crazy expectations! Let's just wait until December is over and then we'll see!
 
I saw and heard the videos. It was enough for me to finally not purchase a Gran Turismo game. I've been quite patient hoping that they'll fix this but it looks like it won't come anytime soon. Sound to me is 50% of the experience and with this component missing, I just can't get into the game as much. I'll pick up the game as soon as they patch up the sounds (as Kaz has promised!)
 
I can't say I expected this to be honest, not to say I'm surprised,there isn't really that one feature to excite gamers,PD for me needed to ditch the Standards (all of them),improved the sounds from day one and added a Livery editor.
 
I'm tempted to blame the Kaz/PD fanboys, who are present in abundance in these forums, for constantly making excuses for the GT series - how they really don't care about damage, how they love the license tests, the grinding gameplay, the slow & stupid AI. In reality, I have a strong suspicion that Kaz doesn't pay much attention to either his fans or critics. I believe it's got something to do with Japanese business culture - having achieved a level of success & fame in the early days of console sim games, Kaz's status means there's no one around him who holds him to account. He's had carte blanche to pursue his own "vision".

In contrast, I'm sure the (American) team at Turn 10 is acutely aware of the reaction of fans & critics & is building their game in response. This is, of course, not always a good thing from a sim perspective, as the majority of gamers may not want a more realistic sim. There's a lot that is admirable about GT, but unless Kaz starts addressing some of the long-standing, (almost) universally acknowledged shortcomings of GT, the GT series is going to become a dying franchise.
 
Racing games will never come close as far as sales go to FPS games, etc. It's a very niche market...
 
Im not surprised and I said after a few weeks of GT5 being released that the sales of GT6 will be much lower. The simple reason being is GT5 was such a disappointment and many copies were traded in. I find it a shame really because GT6 is much better in many aspects.

Overall though the problem with GT franchise is it has not moved with the times. Take for example GT6 and the lack of online leaderboards. Virtually every racing game including arcade has these and strangely they remain largely absent from GT6.
 
Where are you guys getting info about sales? GT6 has only been out for less than a week, a lot of people don't even know about it yet.
 
Meant to quoteNoonenF1, but the quote didn't work...

You seem like someone who has very low standards and who is amused by shiny bobbles.

Gameplay is what makes a game good. Graphics, sound, all that stuff is extra. If the gameplay sucks, nothing else matters. And the current gameplay sucks. It doesn't matter how good the physics are, if the AI sucks and a 6 year old can woop them, it's a waste of the physics engine.

Your post strikes me as having the attitude that we should somehow be greatful to Kaz and PD for giving us the unbelievably rare opportunity to simply drive a virtual version of some crazy one off super car that we won't ever see in real life (like we can't do that in any number of other titles...). I can only speak for myself, but I could care less about some Mercedez concept car, or Pikes Peak Hillclimb car, or some old Audi rally car, all cars that I will drive maybe once, and never touch again.

GT has always been a more mature game than other titles in the genre, but never before has it been more evident that PD is a company run by old men who are out of touch with modern car culture. Both the new premiums that were added, along with the standard converts, are almost all cars aimed at old men. PD forgets that most of their audience was born in the 80s or later (I'm almost 30 myself). This game has turned into one giant, nostalgic trip down memory lane for people 40 and older, while rest of us are left saying "I don't give a crap about stuff that was considered cool in the 60s".
 
cassiusclay99
Kaz has showed a level of blindness that would kill any other series. he seems completly out of touch. When I first red about the "realtime constellation simulation" I thought "ho my God... he did it again!". But the worst is that there is whole crowd of Kaz's fans that are completly unable to criticize anything he does. Some people really love that the constellations are right! Seriously!

Kaz needs to go.
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Right, to anyone echoing sentiments such as these, suggesting that 'Kaz doesn't listen, blah blah blah,' let me remind you of a few things. I may even offer constructive suggestions on how to improve things too:

The introduction of Brands Hatch, Bathurst, Silverstone, Goodwood, and Spa (from GT5 onwards) and Apricot hill making a comeback, are all a result of fans asking for these to be included in the game, and PD has both listened and delivered. Sounds have been improved (tyre noise and some engines), and are due to be improved further in a future update. My opinion? I think that a big improvement could be made by making the gearchanges more authentic; everything sounds like it has a very smooth dual clutch gearbox at the moment, and always has since the first GT. Maybe introduce a few pops, bangs and maybe even a few braps, and it would add a whole dimension to many of the cars.

Here's something none of you will know - remember how if you wanted to reverse you needed to hold down the button? I was working at the Goodwood FOS this year, and while I was speaking to a PD employee I mentioned how this was annoying, especially when using a steering wheel. I even suggested that it should stay in reverse until you select another gear. He thought this was a good idea, and would pass it on. Try selecting reverse and see what happens now. Coincidence? While I appreciate this is a very minute detail, it is yet more evidence that they absolutely listen to fans.

If there is any one game on the market that is a fine example of taking suggestions of the fans and implementing them, then the GT series has to be one of the best. Having played the last four or five Call Of Duty games, I'm really not sure I can say the same for that..

What many of you need to realise is that so many suggestions are banded around that could improve the game that it is almost impossible to implement all of them, and frankly some ideas would improve it for so few (or not improve it at all) that they aren't worth doing.

Oh, and so I'm in before all the idiotic 'another typical Kaz fanboy' comments: I met Kaz once. He seemed alright. I was not in awe of him, but I think he has produced some market leading games, of which GT6 is the latest.

Cassiusclay99 - I am able to offer constructive criticism to anything he does if I feel it is due. He does not need to go. The end.
 

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