GTrr™

[Timppaq]

Here's the cross dimension on the seat mounting with my current "seat". The 3d model is based on my old seat, the new seat will have much narrower runners. This is not a problem though as the bars are threaded and therefore the width can be anything under about 430mm.

*pics removed*

The setup under the seat is quite flexible to accommodate different kind of seat mounts so I'm pretty confident that most if not all will be pretty easy to fit in.

One thing that came to my mind is that maybe I need to think about a nice solution for a PS EYE. Although I think the best place might be on top of the center screen.

And thanks for all that has already voted on the poll 👍

 

[Mr Latte]

Good to thear that seats shouldnt be an issue... 👍

As for PS3 Eye

Simple Blu Tac (Office Putty)
Velcro

Both easy to apply and will hold a PS3 Eye no problems.

 

[Timppaq]

That sounds practical 👍

Got a brainstorm and I'm doing a completely new solution for the pedal section. Should get away from the plywood under the pedals. Will save little costs and make the design less complicated, hopefully.

edit,

and here's the idea in pics. Not sure if 100% ready yet, but close..

*pics removed*

 

[Timppaq]

Thought I'd update the preview pics, as there's been loads of changes lately.. (minor though)

Say if the page is now too slow to open and I change them to just links.

edit, vote people vote, it's the only way you can make a difference!!

 

[Timppaq]

Here's a few pics of how you can change the driving position. Something that I've always wanted to be able to do.. some days it's just fun to take a F1 car out and for that you really need to sit lower than usually.

So a comparison between the highest and almost lowest (lowest with this angle) seat positioning:

Thanks for all the voters again

 

[Mr Latte]

I look forward to you doing a test with the built prototype as curious to see how quick a player could reposition everything from F1 low seating setting to a standard cockpit setting.

I count 14 bolts that need to be removed/repositioned and retightened, is that a bit much to put people off, it could be a factor?
Perhaps get peoples feedback/comments on how useful this feature would be to them and depending on how quick easy/hard it is to change.

 

[Timppaq]

Haha, well I'm not implying it would take only a few minutes.. But it's possible, and that's the main point. This actually just comes as an extra feature to the "normal" sized persons, as the main point for all those adjustments is to fit basically however short/tall person in 👍

For example, in my current rig before I could try something similar I'd need to learn how to weld first. I find this option here little better , even if it may feel a little cumbersome for some.

 

[Mr Latte]

Having the adjustability is excellent particular to position maybe an inch or two up/down on the wheel/seat/monitor. Im just not sure many would be inclined to go as far as moving everything down just to play a F1 game?

Could be wrong though as you seem very keen to do it so maybe others are too.

 

[Timppaq]

Did you read my last post? ..I mean, it's naturally up to the user if she/he wants to do it or not. I won't expect anyone to do it. (moving everything down just to play a F1 game)

 

[Mr Latte]

Did you read my last post? ..I mean, it's naturally up to the user if he wants to do it or not. I won't expect anyone to do it. (moving everything down just to play a F1 game)

Something that I've always wanted to be able to do.. some days it's just fun to take a F1 car out and for that you really need to sit lower than usually.

I agree to having adjustability as a good thing but I question how you also are promoting the feature above.
Ive underlined the part Im questioning because is that your opinon or something research has proved to be an important factor to potential buyers. Their is a big difference in positioning everything for individual comfort or preference. With a user getting a preferred setting they wont change that setting much or often.

To changing everything just to play a different racing game or type of car is entirely different Im not criticising it but questioning the importance or need of it? As a feature how many cockpits do that and how many people will assuming it takes 30-40 mins to change be wanting to do it often?

Again to me the project is crossing what suits you for an individual d.i.y sim and what maybe is the best things in ensuring easy manufacturing, cost effectivness, weight etc. Dont want to get your back up but this is the only cockpit here I see on these forums that is being done to also build or sell to others. In the interest of that then its only a good thing to question exactly what people may want so you can produce a design at perhaps a reduced cost but still doing what the majority of sim users want...

 

[DustDriver]

I think Timo was just pointing out the versatility of this rig, so people can see what's possible.
It's all up to the user if he/she wants to spend time adjusting the setup for different kind of vehicles. Having the option to do that is all that matters.

Using more complex mounting methods would mean costs would go up, and there would be a potential risk of rigidity going down.

 

[Timppaq]

I agree to having adjustability as a good thing but I question how you also are promoting the feature above.

Ive underlined the part Im questioning because is that your opinon or something research has proved to be an important factor to potential buyers. Their is a big difference in positioning everything for individual comfort or preference. With a user getting a preferred setting they wont change that setting much or often.

To changing everything just to play a different racing game or type of car is entirely different Im not criticising it but questioning the importance or need of it? As a feature how many cockpits do that and how many people will assuming it takes 30-40 mins to change be wanting to do it often?

Again to me the project is crossing what suits you for an individual d.i.y sim and what maybe is the best things in ensuring easy manufacturing, cost effectivness, weight etc. Dont want to get your back up but this is the only cockpit here I see on these forums that is being done to also build or sell to others. In the interest of that then its only a good thing to question exactly what people may want so you can produce a design at perhaps a reduced cost but still doing what the majority of sim users want...

Wouldn't call 5 pics at gtplanet quite a big promotion campaign tbh. And I'm sure you noticed that I wrote "something that I've always wanted to be able to do". Isn't that just saying just that. Where did I mention everyone will need this (imo) magnificent feature ? The next sentence clearly is just adding my own thoughts about the issue (the underlined part). I'm not a native English speaker so if my wording gave wrong impression to you I'm sorry for that.

The important factor for potential buyers would be the fact that with these adjustments most (i'd say basically anybody) will be able to find a good driving position (did I just wrote this same thing a post above). I believe we don't need any surveys to realize this is a major factor for users. This, I guess, would be the individual comfort setting.

Not really sure why you question this as much as you do. 30mins is very little for me. As I think I already mentioned on the early days, I'm doing a rig that I would like to have and so far there is none (that I know of - please enlighten me if there is one) that can do these things in this price range (no, not telling yet )

edit,

I have no resources to do any surveys of what the majority would want to have in a rig and what shoudn't be included. So basically I have to rely on my own experiences and feelings and in the end we'll see how it ended up At least I'll get a new rig for myself out of this

It's good to question things, but you must admit that there are different sized people out there and the only way to cope with that is to have adjustability. And once you have it, it won't cost anything to get it as much as possible (with the same parts).

edit2,

now that I thought about it, it's propably closer to 15mins.

 

[Kacprzak]

This has more then likely been mentioned in the novels that have been already written.lol. But i dont see the point in all those adjustable features, if its gonna be just for you, then why not make it all fixed and suit you to a T, that way you will save mega dollars.

But if you plan to go into mass production then its a great design that will suit anybody.

I guess im selfish like that, my rig , my set positions, if a mate wants a bash he can with my specs, at the end of the day its you who will spend most of the time in your rig

 

[Timppaq]

haha novels, but this is serious business!! Thanks for the comment.. been quite quiet here. Almost like chatting with Latte in a private chatroom. (a little scary thought, lol.)

But even if it would be only for me there are a few things positive about the adjustments.
- before I try, how can I know what will eventually be my preferred driving position? And how would I even try if not with the adjustments. Measuring from a car etc. might work but is not guaranteed to be the best possible for me.
- my back is sometimes quite bad, and therefore I really need the option to get upright position. But this doesn't mean that I'd like to drive always like that. I could as well clamp the wheel on a table basically
- even after you find a good driving position, it may be that during the long months with gt5 you notice something that would make it ergonomically better or otherwise.

I actually honestly believe that if I would leave all the adjustments off the current design, I would win very little but lose a lot.

 

[Mr Latte]

I dont beat around the bush guys I say what I think

The issue I have is still with making something for yourself and own needs and making something for lets face it a profit is a difference. One moment we are told this is for Timo the next we have a poll for a pricepoint and its back to an item thats going to be sold to others also.

So what is it?

If its a product to sell then it needs to tested with all sizes and weights of people in all its configurations. Could it be be simplified to probably make it more viable for profit? Yes I believe it could and does not need certain things, hence my queries or criticisims. As a cockpit for Timo I think its great though.

Looking at the most popular price in the poll, is this desgn possible?. Have any of you guys an idea on the shipping costs this would have even without a seat from Europe - USA including taxes and import duties which has to be part of the costs...

As a product how are service and repairs,replacements dealt with, what would the costs be involved in this? Seriously its fine doing drawings of something but in reality as a product to show on forums and lets face it these are not the only forums this has been shown has everything involved regards selling this on the business/financial side been thought over properly? Is it even commericially viable in the current design?

Id really love to know what this is again, a thread about a guys cockpit aspirations or a thread about a cockpit someone wants to build and market to others?

I do not criticse this as a d.i.y for Timo himself but as a product that is being demonstrated for possible purchase and has a poll being done to accertain a pricepoint then it has some serious consideration required.

 

[Timppaq]

You obviously see a contradiction here, and that's fine. But I don't see the same. What of my needs in a rig is in confict with what would generally thought to be needed in a racing rig? How many times I need to tell you that this is a rig designed for my needs (lol), but that I will also sell IF somebody want's to buy. And in that case I do need to come up with a price, don't I? I'm not going to MASS produce these things but make them in 10pcs sets and sell them if there is people willing to buy. 👍

And also the pricepoint is not under the poll, it's a poll for estimations of a realistic price, just because I thought it would be fun to see people's thoughts even if they're not posting on the thread.. I have already quite clear vision what the price could be but I'm sure it's clear that the final number will be the last thing to be decided.

Would be fun to hear your guesses / estimations about the realistic price (with one screen stand & without bolts and nuts) I'll add a poll to gauge general impression.. be reasonable (please ) , thanks

And sorry if it wasn't mentioned clearly enough, but obviously shipping costs aren't included in the poll figures (although it wasn't mentioned in the including list, so go figure..). Just because those varies between every country. Tbh, the cost side is a matter that really isn't worth talking yet as there is too many variables still open. (that doesn't mean that you folks couldn't give your estimation about it 👍)

And you really got me interested, tell me what you'd drop out or make differently. 👍 I've been waiting for comments like that but this thread (as many threads here tends to) seems to generate quite little discussion (and that's totally fine with me also).

And luckily there isn't basically any parts that can get broken, unless you throw a hammer on them.

I can tell you what this thread is about (again), it's about me designing the racing rig that I would love to have and then giving other people the choice to buy it for themselves also. I can put it in my sig if it's so hard to remember.

edit;

here, posted on Apr. 27.

..snip..

..my goal is to fill my needs. I really can't find one from the market, not with big money - not with little money. It's really simple;

- Adjustability
- Stability

As I said in the beginning, this is to cater my needs ( ) and everything else is a bonus. So, basically I'm doing the kind of rig that I'd want to have. I know I'm not far off if I manage to do that.

..snip..

Some people like to drive F1 style (very low) and some people prefer more upright position. I can't see the harm having the possibility to do both. Otherwise you'd have to build a new rig if you like to change the driving position.. I'd prefer to use just one, and I really really want to be able to do that..

Pretty much on line with what I said just a moment ago.

 

[stega]

The problem with not including shipping is it could cost close to $100+ to ship all this stuff around. And that is with no seat.

 

[Timppaq]

That might be true (not seen any figures, but don't doubt it), but is it a problem or is it just the way the things are. I don't believe anyone wanting me to include one general cost for shipping as it then would be the highest rate for all shippings. I can't see any plus sides on that.

About the seat thing, if you think about these thing like I do, having the possibility to get any seat you prefer is a positive thing. And it's already shipped close to you too.

You'd need to pay for it anyway. Better to get one that you like the first time and not get a China made ripoff shipped from Finland

 

[stega]

That might be true (not seen any figures, but don't doubt it), but is it a problem or is it just the way the things are. I don't believe anyone wanting me to include one general cost for shipping as it then would be the highest rate for all shippings. I can't see any plus sides on that.

About the seat thing, if you think about these thing like I do, having the possibility to get any seat you prefer is a positive thing. And it's already shipped close to you too.

You'd need to pay for it anyway. Better to get one that you like the first time and not get a China made ripoff shipped from Finland

I agree with the seat thing. But again I bring it up because it too can be costly to ship separate. Shipping on my Obutto was almost $100.

 

[Mr Latte]

That might be true (not seen any figures, but don't doubt it), but is it a problem or is it just the way the things are. I don't believe anyone wanting me to include one general cost for shipping as it then would be the highest rate for all shippings. I can't see any plus sides on that.

Oh come on this has always been a design influenced for possible sales and not just a cockpit for your self needs but to cater for others as well. The original design was excessive in size and weight but would of done your requirements fine. Did you not take the advice given and change it to reduce weight and materials which would be better for shipping purposes?

Im not going to argue but I will not accept the fact you have a genuine interest in selling these and as such the design has been effected to reflect things that could not only make it appeal to you but others. The point of a Poll is to see what pricepoint would be most effective at securing sales.
To then try to tell me your not concentrating on this as a product but a self build first and foremost is hard to swallow.

Tell me is it possible to sell the current design at the most popular pricepoint in the poll?
Then take into account 30-100 additional Euro/Dollars for shipping to be added to that. Where does that place it to competing products with a seat?

As a product competing against other products its the delivered end price that matters to the consumer. Perhaps if they could buy an Obutto / Playseat for less or simlar money including a seat then you have to question how viable is it to even bother or consider making some to sell. You have to take into account what the average price shipped and with the average priced seat including its own shipping and runners costs are likely to be. Yes people will pay more for something like this over those products but how much more? Stop dancing around selling these as a possibility and determine if you can sell them at a price point that competes well with other products but more importantly at a price point that interests people. This is research that should of been done in the beginning before even contemplating selling or talking of building in batches of 10. If you cant get the interest at the price point you need to ship then your wasting your time are you not and getting people possibly interested excited over nothing.

Also like Ive said before as I have a business and plenty of experience in sales you have to take into account taxes and other costs to be certain it wont end up costing you money, no matter if you sell one or fifty. Point Ive been trying to make is if all the features adjustability are needed or excessive and how small changes could reduce costs. If wanting to sell then you sell for profit, when money comes into it then you design to maximise profit.

 

[Timppaq]

I agree with the seat thing. But again I bring it up because it too can be costly to ship separate. Shipping on my Obutto was almost $100.

For sure it's really expensive to ship anything close to this size practically anywhere, but it is what it is. I'll get more into this a little more later on as we need to know first what there would even be to ship.

👍

Oh come on this has always been a design influenced for possible sales and not just a cockpit for your self needs but to cater for others as well. The original design was excessive in size and weight but would of done your requirements fine. Did you not take the advice given and change it to reduce weight and materials which would be better for shipping purposes?

Im not going to argue but I will not accept the fact you have a genuine interest in selling these and as such the design has been effected to reflect things that could not only make it appeal to you but others. The point of a Poll is to see what pricepoint would be most effective at securing sales.

To then try to tell me your not concentrating on this as a product but a self build first and foremost is hard to swallow.

Is it possible to sell the current design at the most popular pricepoint in the poll. Then take into account 30-100 Euro/Dollars for shipping. As a product competing against other products its the delivered price that matters to the consumer. Perhaps if they could buy a Obutto / Playseat for less or simlar money including a seat then you have to question how viable is it to even bother or consider making some to sell.

Yes, I have the whole time said that I would be selling these, already on the wanted features / ideas thread we were speaking about selling these. 👍. Where did I say I wouldn't? What I did say, is that the most important things for me are the adjustability and the rigidity. I will hang on to those, because they are important to me. The rig is to cater my needs as a racing rig first, and whatever comes after that is a bonus (meaning here if somebody would buy one) In my mind I still don't see why I can't think of what I like & want and at the same time believe it'll be good enough maybe for somebody else too? It just happens to be so that the equation works both ways here. I want adjustability for my reasons and for selling purposes adjustability is a must also. This I've said the whole time and god know how many times now.

As I said in the beginning, this is to cater my needs ( ) and everything else is a bonus. So, basically I'm doing the kind of rig that I'd want to have. I know I'm not far off if I manage to do that.

This rig is meant for a person that devotes a lot of time for the hobby and is willing to get a proper seat to enjoy the experience. ..snip...

I did change it eventually after giving up the boxy look what was a right decision for sure 👍 Both for shipping purposes but it's also much prettier and takes less space now Much of the credit goes to you 👍 :

Don't worry.. I've been the whole day on this and I can now assure you that the final version will not be boxy at all Don't know about the general requirements.. but no boxy I promise (and smaller too )

But thanks again for making me thinking it through once again. I believe this was now 5th time I thought I had the model for proto done, but it proved to be wrong. But now I'm REALLY happy with the design.
Will post pics of the built proto when done

*****

Anyway I find it quite funny that you know my purposes with the poll so good. The final cost will consist of many things, and the poll is the smallest thing affecting that, I can assure you. 40 answers isn't really a big survey, is it not?

And what really there is to be swallowed here? I do this for selling too, yes. But I have to do it "through me", meaning that what matters to me is to be included. Yes the first boxy design might have been ok for that. But FFS if I eventually come up with a nicer design, can't I just be happy and go with that. So it happens that it's also beneficial for the shippings etc, hey, we have a win win! Or was it that I made it smaller to get it ship cheaper and it just happened to be prettier too? wow, win win!!

If you happen to remember, I did a thread asking people about the features etc. Not much discussion was stirred so basically I was left with my own thoughts and here we are, all happy . (again, thanks for all who did contribute 👍)

And you really got me interested, tell me what you'd drop out or make differently. I've been waiting for comments like that but this thread (as many threads here tends to) seems to generate quite little discussion (and that's totally fine with me also).

Still interested to hear... 👍

 

[stega]

For sure it's really expensive to ship anything close to this size practically anywhere, but it is what it is. I'll get more into this a little more later on as we need to know first what there would even be to ship.

👍

Can you give me a weight estimate? I can give you a shipping price.

As a product how are service and repairs,replacements dealt with?

This is also a major issue for some people, some will not buy a product there is no support for.

I also agree with Latte's question, is your design viable at the current most popular price point?

 

[Lei1634]

I dont know why Mr.Latte is so against adjusitiblity. To me that is the number 1 thing when looking for a cockpit. I had the cheaper Playseat Evo and it would adjust but only to certain parameters, and it was horrible. Ive been looking for a cockpit that has unlimited ways to adjust it, kinda like how you show here. The reason being, is that I have lots of different people try it out and the position its in now only suits me, also like Timp said I too would drop it down for F1 games, and back up again for iRacing and others. Although I do agree that it shouldnt be so hard to adjust everything, maybe put them on sliders? or bolts that merely pop in and dont have to be screwed..

kinda somthing like this

http://www.virtualperformanceparts.com/cat2/images/A5K9387.jpg

 

[Timppaq]

Can you give me a weight estimate? I can give you a shipping price.

This is also a major issue for some people, some will not buy a product there is no support for.

I also agree with Latte's question, is your design viable at the current most popular price point?

Not really needed yet, but will be just around 10kg. But, this is still a thing to be seen and thought how to do this. The weight could be more.. if you give an estimation for 10kg and for 15kg, we're pretty close I guess.

And I will always be here & available. But I'm not (sadly) a multimillion firm and therefore there might be some slight differences with the product support

The price question I can't answer yet.. I say something and you'll hold me on to that forever!! 👍 But I'd like to hear what you'd guess if it could be viable?

 

[Timppaq]

I dont know why Mr.Latte is so against adjusitiblity. To me that is the number 1 thing when looking for a cockpit. I had the cheaper Playseat Evo and it would adjust but only to certain parameters, and it was horrible. Ive been looking for a cockpit that has unlimited ways to adjust it, kinda like how you show here. The reason being, is that I have lots of different people try it out and the position its in now only suits me, also like Timp said I too would drop it down for F1 games, and back up again for iRacing and others. Although I do agree that it shouldnt be so hard to adjust everything, maybe put them on sliders? or bolts that merely pop in and dont have to be screwed..

kinda somthing like this

http://www.virtualperformanceparts.com/cat2/images/A5K9387.jpg

Nice! How much is that? 👍 👍 ffs, sorry double post.

If wanting to sell then you sell for profit, when money comes into it then you design to maximise profit.

Exactly 👍 And that I am doing right now. But at the same time, it's a no big deal if I sell 0 of these. I still get my rig. (I'm not doing this for work, luckily)

As a product competing against other products its the delivered end price that matters to the consumer.

Would be stupid to think that's all there is about it.

 

[Raitziger]

nice! How much is that? 👍 👍 Ffs, sorry double post.

650€

Is the cockpit ready for the seat or are you still missing transport?

 

[Timppaq]

Thanks, that must be one of the best there is 👍

edit,

sorry, been a hassle lately. I'll PM you today evening after asking about the car. 👍

 

[Mr Latte]

Still interested to hear... 👍

As a product to sell the seat secton does not need all the adjustability it has particulary when taking seat runners into account. You have two mounting positions for the uprights, then a fancy metal piece with more sliding adjustability and also seat runners. The average user will only need 3-4" difference in height and distance from the wheel section. You more than cover that with Id say too much adjustability on the seat available. See VR3 or Gamepod they only have seat height adjustment based on the seat mounting holes and a basic seat has none as it isnt really a needed feature for most people.

If most people want the low level seating feature fine but I can tell you out of cockpits Ive owned its much comfier to sit higher particulary when getting in and out of a cockpit. Personally Id file it under a gimmick feature but hey some may love it thinking it somehow would make F1 games more appealing, once they experience it to be less comfortable then they may lose the desire to keep using it.

Having in the past been tortured with a Playseat having to spend 30 mins changing a X360 wheel over to a G25 and then readjusting everything I can tell you as a user who has owned several cockpits you soon get fed up with it to a point if somethings too much bother your less likely to keep doing it.
It put me off playing driving X360 games and I know others agree it was a pain in the backside. Taking onboad the repositioning of the screen, wheel and seat sections on your current design would be maybe something that becomes not worth the hassle with currently what needs to be done and the time involed in changing it.

All the adjustability on your design is bolt and nuts which requires removing, repositioning and retightening. That method is a bit of a chore, its fine for a d.i.y and self build but as a product its not a great solution. As a product design I would of opted for something better mainly that adjusts in height and simply tightens without having to remove anything that my friend would be a great improvement.

As an example take the Wheel Stand Pro its so easy to adjust its height yet on the Fanatec Wheel Stand its much more bother and like your method requiring a bolt to be removed and then reinserted. So in my head im thinking of this with your design and multiplying that with 14 bolts, seems like too much work.

The two uprights for the seat have never appealed to me personally, yes the metal is strong but that doesnt mean without proper testing you wont experience any flexing or mild movement of the horizontal supports. Having a more conventional flat surface or four mounting points would ensure it wouldnt be an issue.

As an item to sell you have to ask could an alternative method offer what most people want, you keep saying this is your design for you and then if people want to buy it you will sell them. What your not getting is what price point are we talking here. Before going further why not give people an idea and then as friends here lets compare to other products on the market how yours fits in. From that you can decide if changes need to be done to reduce costs and then change the design or if everything as it is now is just perfect?

As a product to sell you are missing a major business element. That is accesories and items like the gearshift holder are sold seperate.
Please look at Playseats/Game Pod/Game Racer and everyone of those I have owned but had to pay extra for components. Therefore your design should reflect a basic package, then keyboard tray monitor shelf etc all those should be added as extras.

This allows you to reduce your core element price for the main cockpit for the user that just needs that and profit on extras for those that need them. Also with multiple items your shipping charges are better covered even for a single order of a small component and of course charges in the shiping should also allow a bit of profit margin.

 

[Timppaq]

Thanks for the comments 👍

The seat secton does not need all the adjustability it has particulary when taking seat runners into account. You have two mounting positions for the uprights, then a fancy metal piece with more sliding adjustability and also seat runners. The average user will only need 3-4" difference in height and distance from the wheel section. If people want the low level seating feature fine but I can tell you out of cockpits Ive owned its much comfier to sit higher particulary when getting in and out of a cockpit. Personally Id file it under a gimmick feature but hey some may love it thinking it somehow would make F1 games more appealing.

First of all, when I get the testing done, I will get the holes approximately to the right places for the poles. Now I can't say they are excatly on the right spot (individual of course). This is important to get the CoG close to the poles if for nothing else then to maintain balanced look. (the structure will hold, it's not actually about that at all) First I had many holes there, but as you can see I've dropped the count to just two (for the bolts). If the user has a more specific need, it's really easy to do new holes to the aluminium bar. And you're right actually even now I can swap the metal plate the other way and even with two holes we have two positions for the poles with just two holes 👍 (actually I hadn't noticed this option untill now )

The fancy metal piece (lol) and the long slots are not for adjusting the seat position. It's actually made for different lenght of runners so just to be sure most (if not all) would fit in.

You can say the low seating position to be a gimmick and I have no problem with that. If somebody feels there is too much lenght in those poles, just cut it shorter and reposition the plastic end cap accordingly (same goes with the shifter bar). So there is of course no need to left the extra lengt to place if one feels so. But one thing I've noticed during the testing so far, that the poles are actually perfect to put your hands and push yourself up when the seat is low. So it actually makes the coming off the low set a little easier.

Again, it's the question about does it harm anybody to have the possibility? I think not. No need to use it of course (the low seating position)

Having in the past been tortured with a Playseat having to spend 30 mins changing a X360 wheel over to a G25 and then readjusting everything I can tell you as a user who has owned several cockpits you soon get fed up with it to a point if somethings too much bother your less likely to keep doing it.
It put me off playing driving X360 games and I know others agree it was a pain in the backside. Taking onboad the repositioning of the screen, wheel and seat sections on your current design would be maybe something that becomes not worth the hassle with currently what needs to be done and the time involed in changing it.

Again, once you find the perfect position, why change it? No need. But you can if you later on wish so. No need to do it of course. But what if you woudn't have the possibitlity? Would I get an e-mail saying that the rig is ****** as I can't even see the screen as I'm too short for the position Ive put it? This is not even a possibility when we have the adjustments available. What makes you think that everyone should be repositioning the stuff all the time? Find the setting you like and go with that 👍

All the adjustability on your design is bolt and nuts which requires removing, repositioning and retightening. That method is a bit of a chore, its fine for a d.i.y and self build but as a product its not a great solution. As a product design I would of opted for something better mainly that adjusts in height and simply tightens without having to remove anything that my friend would be a great improvement.

As an example take the Wheel Stand Pro its so easy to adjust its height yet on the Fanatec Wheel Stand its much more bother and like your method requiring a bolt to be removed and then reinserted.

The question here is the cost. And also the manufacturing. Those nuts you can tighten with your hands require a thread on the main bar. That is not really easy to do for an aluminium bar. If you can come up with a cheap solution, I'll be glad to think about it and for sure put it in but I haven't found a way. But that's not saying there isn't one. I'm listening.. 👍

The two uprights for the seat have never appealed to me personally, yes the metal is strong but that doesnt mean without proper testing you wont experience any flexing or mild movement of the horizontal supports. Having a more conventional flat surface or four mounting points would ensure it wouldnt be an issue.

So you'd prefer more parts? +weight +cost And have you seen the picture of me standing on one of those poles. I guarantee you that it won't move one millimeter. I know, I've stood on it. You just need to trust me.

Actually just now maybe understood the point you were making. If there is a danger of the vertical poles "spreading out", first thing that comes to mind is to put a M6 threaded bar trough the lowest fastening hole under the seat (lowest hole on the vertical pole) that should tie them together.

I can repost the pic if you like.

But anyway, I actually like you questioning all these things. But I will dodge the bullets as long as I can but I'm wise enough to take notice and learn if we come up with a real problem.

I did change the first design mainly due to your feedback. And I can say that maybe if you would have not said your word about the boxy design, I'd not be as pleased with the end (current) result as I am now. 👍

And I do think even if somebody would buy this, you can't really so straightforward compare this to something that is made in a real factory for the mass market. This is and will always be half DIY, and I like the fact that this should be quite easy to modify however you like. You can't say that from most of the commercial cockpits. This is just something that is possible to buy if one feels so. And even with the shipping cost that might be high for some countries, it's at least possible to do.

***************

saw you added something later on..

As an item to sell you have to ask could an alternative method offer what most people want, you keep saying this is your design for you and then if people want to buy it you will sell them. What your not getting is what price point are we talking here. Before going further why not give people an idea and then as friends here lets compare to other products on the market how yours fits in. From that you can decide if changes need to be done to reduce costs and then change the design or if everything as it is now is just perfect?

This thread here is because I want to be influenced by you all 👍 Otherwise I'd be in my place doing the planning all by myself. What I'm not getting much is feedback of what people would like. There is the "post a reply" button for a reason. Have I given the impression I don't listen to other peoples thoughts? There just isn't much to work with atm. Still every thought / idea / comment is very welcomed. I haven't even finished the first proto yet so everything is out.

What you could now do is to tell me where I could save costs without losing the elements that I want to include. 👍

The cost thing keeps popping out and I know it would be nice to hear already, but how can I say anything untill I know what will be the final form of the design. Now is the time to discuss about the design, just as we are now doing but the price is still too early.

As a product to sell you are missing a major business element. That is accesories and items like the gearshift holder are sold seperate.
Please look at Playseats/Game Pod/Game Racer and everyone of those I have owned but had to pay extra for components. Therefore your design should reflect a basic package, then keyboard tray monitor shelf etc all those should be added as extras.

I understand this, and of course the monitor tray & the shifter holder might need to be separate, just because some people might not need those. I don't want to force people buy stuff they don't need.

This allows you to reduce your core element price for the main cockpit for the user that just needs that and profit on extras for those that need them. Also with multiple items your shipping charges are better covered even for a single order of a small component and of course charges in the shiping should also allow a bit of profit margin.

True 👍

edit,

edited the bolded part in

edit2,

added the rest of the reply

 

[Mr Latte]

Well I think we both understand our discussions are not in bad taste or with malice. Some may see my criticisims in the wrong manner but Id rather give you my own honest opinions for feedback to either ignore or to consider.

I hope I dont upset you with the long winded replies and what maybe is seen by some as me whinging. Your right that some of my criticisims may not really be founded in general by others but just my own personal opinion. For me an excellent design for such a cockpit is one that achieves the goals you set for it but does it in fewer parts or a more simplistic way. One that allows the user to change what needs changed with ease of use and limited hassle.

I understand you questioning my comments regards the seat section and using more parts which in turn increases the weight and possible shipping. Yes I can see your point
However their is more to it than that. The parts you are using for the seat section could be quite expensive so Im asking okay can something more simplistic be done and even if it increased the weight slightly does it not allow you to save on price for components? You know the money/costs involved with these parts, I do not so I can only look at the design and speculate that the seat section and how your current design plans are perhaps could be improved in cost efficency?

I have to say the Gamepod Im sitting in while typing this (use it as my PC chair) is one of the most simplistic designs on the market but one of the sturdiest. Yes it has some limitations too but the whole thing compromises of only 6 main parts. Simplistic well thought out design.

You asked what could be done to improve the height adjustability and the answer to that is two bits of metal that when released of tension allow simple sliding or repositioning and then when needed can be tightened to lock in a set position typically with a bolt/handle. Again Id say have a look at the method used on the Game Pod cockpits for the wheel tray, its a neat and simple solution and could be improved upon with also having wheel angle positioning as well.

I will say indeed I will jugde things quite hard but when it comes to perhaps giving you ideas or doing anything I can to help you improve this then I will offer you all the help you need.
At the same time Im not trying to come off as a smart ass or a know all but to do that I have to show solutions or back up the criticisims I make.

If you want or need photos of the GamePod part Im referring to it wont be a problem.