GTS vs GT6 - Cars comparison

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after


so the tessellation is still in GTS.... I'm glad you admitted
Stop being a smart ass , I'm referring to dynamic tessellation . Tessellation is locking polygons together naturally to blend them in . All videogames with high polygon counts have tesselated surfaces . The conversation is about dynamic tessellation , which is absent in GTS but was visibly working in the beta. Don't try to use semantics to warp the topic .Now if you can provide a video showing it in action , great I'm wrong . But if you show me the game being paused and an instant LOD pop in , I'm going to laugh . Also I don't have a " campaign " against GT sport . If anything I'm Questioning why some cars are undermodeled when others are PERFECT . Also forza has tons of perfectly round circles yet it never has used dynamic tessellation .
 
Does it have to be dynamic in time? Or can it be that the process itself can be tweaked (not fixed) with, say, a tessellation parameter that alters the degree of subdivision? Maybe that would suit different load situations, e.g. photomode vs. racing - maybe it could vary on different parts of the cars, as it did in GT6. Maybe you could just set it and forget it. It's still "technically" dynamic, as that's how the algorithms were written and the hardware implemented - it'll keep subdividing 'til you tell it to stop.

What's clear is that, as I had suspected, the move to a dedicated tessellator hardware solution has eroded some of the flexibility of PD's geometry streaming. But the extra horsepower covers up for that slightly.

As for whether the visibly smooth edges are tessellated during output or stored on the disc, it stands to reason that streaming performance (load times) of a hierarchy of "LoD" models would be improved with as little unnecessary extra data as possible. This being because PD presumably can't efficiently use their progressive mesh streaming any more.


Keep up the good work, by the way. 👍
 
Stop being a smart ass , I'm referring to dynamic tessellation . Tessellation is locking polygons together naturally to blend them in . All videogames with high polygon counts have tesselated surfaces . The conversation is about dynamic tessellation , which is absent in GTS but was visibly working in the beta. Don't try to use semantics to warp the topic .Now if you can provide a video showing it in action , great I'm wrong . But if you show me the game being paused and an instant LOD pop in , I'm going to laugh . Also I don't have a " campaign " against GT sport . If anything I'm Questioning why some cars are undermodeled when others are PERFECT . Also forza has tons of perfectly round circles yet it never has used dynamic tessellation .

Before "Tesselation doesn't exist in GT sport" at all, now is only the "Adaptive tessellation" that doesn't exist..... OMG... but who cares about adaptive tessellation if in GTS we have instantly high poly full tessellated models? adaptive tessellation was only a compromise necessary on the PS3 because the console required more time to process the full tesselated model....

GT6 adaptive tessellation


GTS "normal" tessellation


it's clear (and normal) that GTS tessellation system is more efficient and looks better.... please stop your mirror climbing with the only purpose to denigrate GTS
 
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Please, can you stop this "war/fight"?
In the end, let's forget this dispute and let this thread be like it was in the beginning.

Some people just like to argue on the internet, but yeah definitely more noticeable the last few pages. I wonder why?
 
Dynamic tesselation by definition should not be " instant " , it should not " pop in " when pausing . That's called culling in a level of detail model from memory . Now if you have proof it exist , show us . Pausing the game only shows One LOD being loaded in for another .Dynamic tessallation works DYNAMICALY by adjusting the polygon count REAL TIME , pausing the game only to have the LOD swap, that not exactly real time. instant " tessalation " made me laugh , it's called a LOD model being switched. Ignorance is truly amusing !

Stop being a smart ass , I'm referring to dynamic tessellation . Tessellation is locking polygons together naturally to blend them in . All videogames with high polygon counts have tesselated surfaces . The conversation is about dynamic tessellation , which is absent in GTS but was visibly working in the beta. Don't try to use semantics to warp the topic .Now if you can provide a video showing it in action , great I'm wrong . But if you show me the game being paused and an instant LOD pop in , I'm going to laugh . Also I don't have a " campaign " against GT sport . If anything I'm Questioning why some cars are undermodeled when others are PERFECT . Also forza has tons of perfectly round circles yet it never has used dynamic tessellation .

There is no such thing as "dynamic" vs. "non-dynamic" tessellation. Tessellation by definition and design itself is always dynamic and adaptive, it will adjust and subdivide polygons in real-time. Your definition of tessellation is not accurate, this statement "Tessellation is locking polygons together naturally to blend them in . All videogames with high polygon counts have tesselated surfaces" makes me question if you know how it works.

You can clearly see the size and circular shape of the muffler area warp in real-time on the FT-1 in GTS when you pause/unpause. It clearly isn't a sudden LOD pop and looks like the GT6 tessellation videos, just doesn't take as long.

UWgx2u.gif


Also at the guy above, I CREATED the Tesselation when pausing myth .

No, you did not. I came to these conclusions based on my own evidence and wasn't even aware you made such posts.
 
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Screenshot_2018-02-01-17-08-56.png
There is no such thing as "dynamic" vs. "non-dynamic" tessellation. Tessellation by definition and design itself is always dynamic and adaptive, it will adjust and subdivide polygons in real-time. Your definition of tessellation is not accurate, this statement "Tessellation is locking polygons together naturally to blend them in . All videogames with high polygon counts have tesselated surfaces" makes me question if you know how it works.

You can clearly see the size and circular shape of the muffler area warp in real-time on the FT-1 in GTS when you pause/unpause. It clearly isn't a sudden LOD pop and looks like the GT6 tessellation videos, just doesn't take as long.

UWgx2u.gif



No, you did not. I came to these conclusions based on my own evidence and wasn't even aware you made such posts.
I don't see any warping , I see a distinct pop in . It appears to warp since the game fades . Take out the Alpine VGT and look at the wheel arches then pause . Its a clear pop in / out .
 
View attachment 710989
I don't see any warping , I see a distinct pop in . It appears to warp since the game fades . Take out the Alpine VGT and look at the wheel arches then pause . Its a clear pop in / out .

No wonder you got the definition wrong if you're looking it up on a non-technical dictionary. Tessellation isn't blending and fitting together an arrangement of shapes.

And it's too bad if you can't clearly see the shape of the muffler area gradually goes from more rounded and smaller to larger and more octagonal. It's very clear to me.
 
No wonder you got the definition wrong if you're looking it up on a non-technical dictionary. Tessellation isn't blending and fitting together an arrangement of shapes.

And it's too bad if you can't clearly see the shape of the muffler area gradually goes from more rounded and smaller to larger and more octagonal. It's very clear to me.
What exactly is it?
 
There is no such thing as "dynamic" vs. "non-dynamic" tessellation. Tessellation by definition and design itself is always dynamic and adaptive, it will adjust and subdivide polygons in real-time. Your definition of tessellation is not accurate, this statement "Tessellation is locking polygons together naturally to blend them in . All videogames with high polygon counts have tesselated surfaces" makes me question if you know how it works.

You can clearly see the size and circular shape of the muffler area warp in real-time on the FT-1 in GTS when you pause/unpause. It clearly isn't a sudden LOD pop and looks like the GT6 tessellation videos, just doesn't take as long.

UWgx2u.gif




No, you did not. I came to these conclusions based on my own evidence and wasn't even aware you made such posts.

So also the adaptive tessellation is still there, but on PS4 the transition is so rapid that is substantially immediate.... and that gif is the definitive proof.

now we can close this sad discussion about tessellation
 
So also the adaptive tessellation is still there, but on PS4 the transition is so rapid that is substantially immediate.... and that gif is the definitive proof.

now we can close this sad discussion about tessellation
@Vspectra So going off that gif would we be able to assume that the changes to the tessellation isn't happening while the game/race is running, but more rather when you're just pausing? Makes it seem more like changing the LOD for photomode/replay purposes at that point? At this point, that's the only gif that I've seen showing it, and even then, it's only while pausing.

Odd how many flat surfaces there are on that exhaust pipe, though.
 
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The animation that PD created in game is to smooth the mesh topology changes over time so it doesn't visually jar (as much). The weirdness you see in photomode is probably because the adaptive process depends on the FoV etc.

PD weren't just "tessellating" (which is a misnomer anyway, call it subdivision), they were also using progressive meshes (alongside now-usual discrete LoD systems). This meant they stored a low-detail mesh, then all the necessary additional vertices, in order, required to gradually add information to that low-detail model, from the full-detail model they made for the game, bit by bit. "Progressive meshes" should be your starting point to understand what we see in some cars in GT6.

The "tessellation" worked on top of that, further subdividing beyond the detail stored in the mesh file, according to certain primitives (e.g. a polygonal approximation of a circle). It's likely that the ultra-low detail of some of these primitives at times in-game was unintended. It's much harder to tune an infinitely variable "LoD" system than it is a discrete one.

The subdivision occurs each frame, and is effectively immediate in both games. The progressive mesh / LoD setup is more involved, topographically speaking, so it makes sense to spread that out over several frames anyway, but it helps with the visual problems, too, as I already mentioned. Both of these processes ran in tandem on the Cell, before the GPU even got a sniff of a vertex. That's very different to how it works on PS4, likely meaning that the progressive mesh aspect has been dropped altogether and we're left with the vanilla tessellation (subdivision) offered by the GPU's dedicated hardware unit.
 
The animation that PD created in game is to smooth the mesh topology changes over time so it doesn't visually jar (as much). The weirdness you see in photomode is probably because the adaptive process depends on the FoV etc.

PD weren't just "tessellating" (which is a misnomer anyway, call it subdivision), they were also using progressive meshes (alongside now-usual discrete LoD systems). This meant they stored a low-detail mesh, then all the necessary additional vertices, in order, required to gradually add information to that low-detail model, from the full-detail model they made for the game, bit by bit. "Progressive meshes" should be your starting point to understand what we see in some cars in GT6.

The "tessellation" worked on top of that, further subdividing beyond the detail stored in the mesh file, according to certain primitives (e.g. a polygonal approximation of a circle). It's likely that the ultra-low detail of some of these primitives at times in-game was unintended. It's much harder to tune an infinitely variable "LoD" system than it is a discrete one.

The subdivision occurs each frame, and is effectively immediate in both games. The progressive mesh / LoD setup is more involved, topographically speaking, so it makes sense to spread that out over several frames anyway, but it helps with the visual problems, too, as I already mentioned. Both of these processes ran in tandem on the Cell, before the GPU even got a sniff of a vertex. That's very different to how it works on PS4, likely meaning that the progressive mesh aspect has been dropped altogether and we're left with the vanilla tessellation (subdivision) offered by the GPU's dedicated hardware unit.


"Beee Booop Beee Booo Bee Bop - 000111000001111010111011"

:lol:

Seriously though - great detailed post that even us laymen can understand 👍
 
The animation that PD created in game is to smooth the mesh topology changes over time so it doesn't visually jar (as much). The weirdness you see in photomode is probably because the adaptive process depends on the FoV etc.

PD weren't just "tessellating" (which is a misnomer anyway, call it subdivision), they were also using progressive meshes (alongside now-usual discrete LoD systems). This meant they stored a low-detail mesh, then all the necessary additional vertices, in order, required to gradually add information to that low-detail model, from the full-detail model they made for the game, bit by bit. "Progressive meshes" should be your starting point to understand what we see in some cars in GT6.

The "tessellation" worked on top of that, further subdividing beyond the detail stored in the mesh file, according to certain primitives (e.g. a polygonal approximation of a circle). It's likely that the ultra-low detail of some of these primitives at times in-game was unintended. It's much harder to tune an infinitely variable "LoD" system than it is a discrete one.

The subdivision occurs each frame, and is effectively immediate in both games. The progressive mesh / LoD setup is more involved, topographically speaking, so it makes sense to spread that out over several frames anyway, but it helps with the visual problems, too, as I already mentioned. Both of these processes ran in tandem on the Cell, before the GPU even got a sniff of a vertex. That's very different to how it works on PS4, likely meaning that the progressive mesh aspect has been dropped altogether and we're left with the vanilla tessellation (subdivision) offered by the GPU's dedicated hardware unit.

Thanks for the explanation. I guess this is a wrap for such long discussion about tesselation process @Griffith500 .👍

Also, want to hear another explanation about sounds in GTS do you think there is something new or improved since launch by the way? (I think we should discuss it in related thread though... the sound thread now is literally buried away... :lol:)
 
Emula because some images are at stake and others are from the scapes?

However, the ferrari bb seems to have had the worst transition from premium to super premium as they have completely redone the interior and many parts of the outside but some things are buggy or have only a little more polygons than the GT6 version
 
@emula didnt went a long way to avoid that as you can see jagged rims and more in his picture.. he did a fair comparison!
You can't hide the rims . There's no picture of the roof pillars which are blatantly obvious even in brand central, No pictures of the wheel arches up close etc . They touched up the interior / rear lights / muffler but left the body untouched . Viper GTS 02. Touched up the body , left the interior untouched . That mesh is 10 years old now , GT prologue came out in 07 ( or 08 ). In hoping all New cars are Supra quality. At least they added the DOT specs on the lights , but that's a silly detail according to some..
 
You can't hide the rims . There's no picture of the roof pillars which are blatantly obvious even in brand central, No pictures of the wheel arches up close etc . They touched up the interior / rear lights / muffler but left the body untouched . Viper GTS 02. Touched up the body , left the interior untouched . That mesh is 10 years old now , GT prologue came out in 07 ( or 08 ). In hoping all New cars are Supra quality. At least they added the DOT specs on the lights , but that's a silly detail according to some..
Mirror, headlights, taillights, wheel arches – i am sorry but he really didnt hide anything!

You might dont understand the purpose of this thread – its to compare GTS to GT6 and not to show every jagged part of every car in GTS.

@emula does a wonderfull job!!
 
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Mirror, headlights, taillights, wheel arches – i am sorry but he really didnt hide anything!

You might dont understand the purpose of this thread – its to compare GTS to GT6 and not to show every jagged part of every car in GT6.

@emula does a wonderfull job!!
He does , except This is the worst model to date and it conveniently has less pictures , and emphasis only on the improvements .
 
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