Hall Of Fame: Nürburgring Nordschleife

  • Thread starter kekke2000
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...objectively speaking, I think Enthusia bombed not just because of the difficulty, but because, overall, it's not that great a game. Mediocre graphics & sound, limited tracks & cars, no damage, multiplayer or online, & confusing gameplay. Combine that with the terrible release timing - going up against both GT4 & Forza - it's easy to see how it got overlooked.
That's your opinion, but the way I see it...
  • Graphics - Not quite as good as GT4, but hardly mediocre, and some of the best I've seen on the PS2. I'd rate Enthusia above GT4 in special effects.
  • Sound - The engine sounds are unique across the entire car selection, and far superior to any Gran Turismo game. You can tell they used actual recordings for the engines, and the other sounds change realistically as you upgrade your car. Unfortunately, certain sounds (eg. turbo spool, blow-off valve, brake squeal) all sound the same, the looping is blatantly noticeable on some engine sounds, and the music is hit-or-miss even if you like "videogame music."
  • Limited tracks & cars - Compared to GT4, sure. But you could say the same thing about pretty much every game that isn't GT4. Enthusia still has an above-average amount to choose from, and is roughly on par with Forza.
  • No damage or online multiplayer - The only reason this is a factor is because GT4 was forgiven for those same flaws -- because it's Gran Turismo.
  • Confusing gameplay - In Enthusia Life mode, certainly. I don't know how anyone could be confused by the rest of the game, except for perhaps clinging to the misguided notion that Driving Revolution is strictly intended to teach you the racing line.
There's no doubt that Enthusia could have been better in all of the above areas, and I'd agree that those who dislike the game tend to complain about those things (almost always making a reference to GT4), but to blame the game's overall quality for its failure is unfair, in my opinion. Simply put, Enthusia failed because it was too realistic, and because it wasn't GT4.
 
What i find most frustrating is people that have a driver's license but can't drive in a videogame. My neighbor came by and tried GTHD. First car he chose was the 599GTB. Using the joystick he was slamming on the gas and brakes - the car spinning all over and never taking a turn correctly.

At that point I realized that anything more realistic and this guy could not play for more than 30 seconds.

We're a dying breed, us sim racers.

I prefer Enthusia over true driving sims on PCs because i just want to drive production cars. Don't care for Nascar, Open wheels and the rest. I want to throw around every car i see on the road. Enthusia's closest to this.
 
That's your opinion, but the way I see it...
Graphics - Not quite as good as GT4, but hardly mediocre, and some of the best I've seen on the PS2. I'd rate Enthusia above GT4 in special effects.
Sound - The engine sounds are unique across the entire car selection, and far superior to any Gran Turismo game. You can tell they used actual recordings for the engines, and the other sounds change realistically as you upgrade your car. Unfortunately, certain sounds (eg. turbo spool, blow-off valve, brake squeal) all sound the same, the looping is blatantly noticeable on some engine sounds, and the music is hit-or-miss even if you like "videogame music."
Limited tracks & cars - Compared to GT4, sure. But you could say the same thing about pretty much every game that isn't GT4. Enthusia still has an above-average amount to choose from, and is roughly on par with Forza.
No damage or online multiplayer - The only reason this is a factor is because GT4 was forgiven for those same flaws -- because it's Gran Turismo.
Confusing gameplay - In Enthusia Life mode, certainly. I don't know how anyone could be confused by the rest of the game, except for perhaps clinging to the misguided notion that Driving Revolution is strictly intended to teach you the racing line.
There's no doubt that Enthusia could have been better in all of the above areas, and I'd agree that those who dislike the game tend to complain about those things (almost always making a reference to GT4), but to blame the game's overall quality for its failure is unfair, in my opinion. Simply put, Enthusia failed because it was too realistic, and because it wasn't GT4.

I'm not stating this as my opinion of Enthusia, but as my opinion of how the average gamer would view Enthusia.

IMO:

Graphics: not bad - nice car modelling & as you say some nice special effects (I remain very disappointed by the dreariness of Nurburgring, however). Not mediocre compared to most PS2 games, but definitely inferior to GT4, Forza (& even PGR2 in many ways).

Sound: not bad- I suspect they are fairly accurate - but IMO not as good as GT4 or Forza. The engine sounds are just not rich or throaty enough & have a somewhat artificial quality to me (compare the rally cars with the sounds in Colin MCrae (R.I.P.) 5 for instance. And the tire sounds - well you know what I think! I have no opinion about the music, as I don't listen to it...

Gameplay: the actual structure of the EL gameplay (very confusing at first), while interesting in theory, doesn't work well in practice: it's way too easy to win races with a significantly inferior car, which makes the racing seem very unrealistic & a bit pointless.

The other limitations of EPR: no damage, or online multiplayer + poor AI don't relate to GT4 but to FM1.

Personally, I came to GT4 (never played the previous GTs) after 2 years of Forza & tried EPR shortly after getting GT4, so I really have no GT bias at all. Initially, I didn't find EPR very convincing & only stuck with it because some of the more thoughtful & articulate posters on gtplanet (that would be you, Wolfe :)) were so committed to it. With time, I have come to appreciate it's positive qualities & enjoy it a lot. However, I find it easy to understand why the "average" gamer would not have been that impressed with EPR - & it's not just because "because it was too realistic."
 
We're a dying breed, us sim racers.
I don't think that's true, in fact I bet a lot of the hardcore sim guys haven't even heard of Enthusia. Or they're too busy playing their rFactor variants (I also think rFactor and spin-offs suck as a sim) to bother with a lowly console game.
 
I don't think that's true, in fact I bet a lot of the hardcore sim guys haven't even heard of Enthusia. Or they're too busy playing their rFactor variants (I also think rFactor and spin-offs suck as a sim) to bother with a lowly console game.

But he has a point though, there aren't many sim games left anymore. Because they're too realistic and therefore not as fun. Even GT5p have an easier mode now that is more forgiving. Ferrari Challenge is supposed to be a sim but reduced realism to make it more fun. Enthusia is part of a rare genre. I've never played any game that is so realistic. The only thing i can complain about in the terms of realism is that the Drifts are a little too balanced, the car doesn't bump the same way when loosing grip as real cars do.
 
Ran some more laps in Enthusia after a few weeks of GT4:

Biggles (LV1 Ford Focus Rally Car - No Assists) 7'45"858
Biggles (LV1 RUF RGT - No Assists) 7'55"871
Biggles (LV1 Lotus Elise 111s - No Assists) 8'32"561

Minor improvements... :)
 
Ran some more laps in Enthusia after a few weeks of GT4:

Biggles (LV1 Ford Focus Rally Car - No Assists) 7'45"858
Biggles (LV1 RUF RGT - No Assists) 7'55"871
Biggles (LV1 Lotus Elise 111s - No Assists) 8'32"561

Minor improvements... :)

Nice work, even the small improvements feels very good when you pass the finish line :)👍
 
Nice work, even the small improvements feels very good when you pass the finish line

Thanks for the encouragement kekke! ;)

Unfortunately, I seem to be the only one bothering to post new times. What about you Kekke?

he only thing I can complain about in the terms of realism is that the Drifts are a little too balanced, the car doesn't bump the same way when loosing grip as real cars do.

I agree: all you have to do is point the wheels into the corner & the back starts to cme around in a very predictable & consistent way. It's still not easy, especially on a long, twisting course like the Ring, but it is predictable. In addition, in GT4 the actual bumps in the road add an element of unpredictability: minute changes in the angle of the car cause the car to react in different ways to the bumps.
 
Thanks for the encouragement kekke! ;)

Unfortunately, I seem to be the only one bothering to post new times. What about you Kekke?

Enthusia have been on the shelf for quiet some time now. I don't have a wheel setup anymore since it got in the way of the keyboard and mouse. Racing from the sofa is better in Gran Turismo.
 
Enthusia have been on the shelf for quiet some time now. I don't have a wheel setup anymore since it got in the way of the keyboard and mouse. Racing from the sofa is better in Gran Turismo.

I can't go back to racing with a controller. I travel a lot on business & take not only my G25 wheel set up with me, but also a 19" LCDTV. I would recommend getting a small TV & setting it up with your wheel somewhere.

I think Forza is better wih a controller than GT4. Because of the AI (or online), the racing is much better than GT4. IMO the only thing that makes GT4 better is the wheel.
 
It's been quite a while since i last played Enthusia but seeing as i own one now i thought i'd have a crack at improving my Cappuccino time.

Mick777 (LV1 Suzuki Cappuccino - No Assists) 9'30"581
 
It's been quite a while since i last played Enthusia but seeing as i own one now i thought i'd have a crack at improving my Cappuccino time.

Mick777 (LV1 Suzuki Cappuccino - No Assists) 9'30"581

thats a nice improvement... have you noticed how Enthusia feels a little like GT5 Prologue? :)
 
could you please elaborate as i havnt played gt5p yet and am interested to how close the physics are to epr.thanks in advANCE
 
thats a nice improvement... have you noticed how Enthusia feels a little like GT5 Prologue? :)

Does it? I was really hoping that polyphony would nick the physics team from konami, as GT4 was woeful in many respects where enthusia was not.

If GT5 turns out to be an enthusia beater it may persuade me to drop the dough for a PS3...
 
Does it? I was really hoping that polyphony would nick the physics team from konami, as GT4 was woeful in many respects where enthusia was not.

If GT5 turns out to be an enthusia beater it may persuade me to drop the dough for a PS3...

It has the right physics when it comes to oversteer, absolutely! Enthusia is much quicker, at least with a sixaxis.
 
I just want to make sure I am correct in my understanding that the cars in Time Attack are unlocked by participating in Driving Revolution, but the cars' performance settings (i.e., Level #, & suspension/ transmission) are set in Enthusia Life.
 
In Free Race, Time Attack, and Versus, suspension/transmission settings and tuning level are selected in the Settings menu, found in the Grid/Change Car menu.
 
In Free Race, Time Attack, and Versus, suspension/transmission settings and tuning level are selected in the Settings menu, found in the Grid/Change Car menu.

lol, i never knew that you could change the settings/levels in anything but enthusia life!! :P

Wow, it's time to lay into time attack now! :D
 
lol, i never knew that you could change the settings/levels in anything but enthusia life!! :P

Wow, it's time to lay into time attack now! :D

One thing to know is that your times with 'tuned' cars won't be recorded in the in-game lap records. ;)
 
One thing to know is that your times with 'tuned' cars won't be recorded in the in-game lap records. ;)

Thought as much, i only play the game to either drift or try to get super-clean laps anyway... i'm not too worried about the scores. :)

It's a real shame you can't alter the brake balance, the only issue i have with the handling of fwd's in this game is that they always go dead straight on the brakes. In the real world you get all kinds of sideways if you brake while turning in a 106. :/

The fastest way to drive good fwd's is by trail-braking into the corners, but that just doesn't work here. Really disappointing. :'(

Oh well, at least i can drive an e30 m3 with a welded diff...
 
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