HKS CT230R Tuner or Racer?

  • Thread starter Thread starter GYMKHANA_RYAN4
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Tuner or Racer?

  • Total voters
    319
And I've noticed you can use race cars in a lot of other races. So what does it prove? Nothing. I can see that you have your mind made up which is fine. In the end though the HKS car as far as I know will never ever be driven in anything other than a competitive situation. Fact is cars tuned that highly are usually horrible daily drivers.

I run a successful (so far) online race league and one of our races was Evo vs STi. Guess what, I declared the HKS illegal, along with RM, rally and race car versions, and did not get one complaint. Heck, I did not even get one request to use the HKS. So feel free to keep your mind made up despite numerous logical points made against your statement. I will do the same :sly:.
 
HKS Evo isn't a tuner.
Tuner cars have to be road legal which HKS Evo isn't.
It's a purpose built race car made by a tuner company.
RE Amamya is a tuner company, yet they have a GT300 race car.
Also, GT5's prices are irrelevant (230 Cr difference between normal Viper and ACR version for example).
 
Yev
HKS Evo isn't a tuner.
Tuner cars have to be road legal which HKS Evo isn't.
It's a purpose built race car made by a tuner company.
RE Amamya is a tuner company, yet they have a GT300 race car.
Also, GT5's prices are irrelevant (230 Cr difference between normal Viper and ACR version for example).
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+1 👍
 
And when people reffer to the car as "tuner" - it's because HKS is a tuning company which tuned the car so much that it's not Mitsubishi anymore.
Define tuner first.
Tuner as in a race car made by a tuning company? Yes, then HKS is a tuner.
Tuner as in common sense tuner (tuned version of a a car which is street legal)? No, the HKS Evo has almost nothing to do with Evo anymore and it's not road legal, it has 1 seat, it has racing parts everywhere, it doesn't have lights and so on.
It's like if someone said that a RM car is a tuner.
Ask yourself, is Lexus IS F Concept, or IS F RM a tuner?
 
yev
hks evo isn't a tuner.
Tuner cars have to be road legal which hks evo isn't.
It's a purpose built race car made by a tuner company.
Re amamya is a tuner company, yet they have a gt300 race car.
Also, gt5's prices are irrelevant (230 cr difference between normal viper and acr version for example).
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+1
 
djchon661
And I've noticed you can use race cars in a lot of other races. So what does it prove? Nothing. I can see that you have your mind made up which is fine. In the end though the HKS car as far as I know will never ever be driven in anything other than a competitive situation. Fact is cars tuned that highly are usually horrible daily drivers.

I run a successful (so far) online race league and one of our races was Evo vs STi. Guess what, I declared the HKS illegal, along with RM, rally and race car versions, and did not get one complaint. Heck, I did not even get one request to use the HKS. So feel free to keep your mind made up despite numerous logical points made against your statement. I will do the same :sly:.
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We were referring to the AI in the category. In the race for tuner. Not the type of car we can enter.
And it means something, it means PD, who wants to simulate the real thing, by including it in the AI under Tuned Car Championship, recognized CT230R as a tuner car.
 
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stanong11
We were referring to the AI in the category. In the race for tuner. Not the type of car we can enter.
And it means something, it means PD, who wants to simulate the real thing, by including it in the AI under Tuned Car Championship, recognized CT230R as a tuner car.
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PD is wildly inconsistent in what cars are entered in which races. I have read threads were people will consistently leave a race and reenter it until they have found a good assortment of competing AI racers. I wouldn't call the inconsistent random program that determines competitor race cars a ground in stone law of PD.

To use the PD logic though (which i'm loathe to do since most things PD has done are really outta whack) most tuner cars in the game name the tuner company and then the model of car (the Genkai Hyper Silvia comes to mind). The HKS though is not known as the HKS Evo. It is known as the HKS CT230R.

Make of it what you will.
 
Easy question. :)

Front wing adjustable = race car

Front wing not adjustable = road car


F.e. the Enzo, Mucielago, McLaren F1, etc. are road cars & the Zonda R, G37, Blitz ER34, all race modded cars, the stealth cars, etc. are race cars. :sly:
 
stanong11
We were referring to the AI in the category. In the race for tuner. Not the type of car we can enter.
And it means something, it means PD, who wants to simulate the real thing, by including it in the AI under Tuned Car Championship, recognized CT230R as a tuner car.
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This is the same game where a base model 1970 Corvette convertible is in the AI pool for a race of modern supercars. I think some perspective is required before anyone attempts to use PD's design decisions for this game as proof of anything.

ZeGermanBastorD
Easy question. :)

Front wing adjustable = race car

Front wing not adjustable = road car


F.e. the Enzo, Mucielago, McLaren F1, etc. are road cars & the Zonda R, G37, Blitz ER34, all race modded cars, the stealth cars, etc. are race cars. :sly:
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This doesn't work either, because a lot of the cars in GT5 aren't correct in that regard.
 
Toronado
This is the same game where a base model 1970 Corvette convertible is in the AI pool for a race of modern supercars. I think some perspective is required before anyone attempts to use PD's design decisions for this game as proof of anything.
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But it's still a supercar. Since the category didn't categorize by date, it probably would allow the corvette to be included. It wouldn't make sense if they allow a civic or a yaris in the AI pool.

It would be wrong if they include the corvette in a race like, Modern Supercar Championship and restrict the date of manufacturing from 1990 to 2010.
Thus, my observation still stands correct.

And I mean AI, not the type of car you can enter race.
 
Ha i wouldn't call a 1970 Corvette a supercar. If i'm not mistaken its an american sports car. A supercar would be more like a Ferrari or Lamborghini. In 1970 I think Datsuns were having there way on technical tracks with the vettes.
 
stanong11
But it's still a supercar.
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A Corvette convertible with the L56 engine wasn't anything resembling a supercar when it was new. It certainly isn't a supercar 40 years later.

So:
stanong11
Thus, my observation still stands correct.
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No its not. You cannot use PD's design decisions for this game as proof of anything, because many of PD's design decisions for this game barely make any sense on a good day.
And it isn't as if that is the only race with an AI pool that makes no sense. For example, the Dream Car Championship is made up of GT-style race cars made up by PD for the series. The AI pool for that race inexplicably contains a Jaguar XJR-9, which is not only a real life car, but is a real life car on a performance level way above any of the other cars in the race.
 
Toronado
This doesn't work either, because a lot of the cars in GT5 aren't correct in that regard.
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You think? Then name a few. :)


Here's just a camparsion between the standard & the race modded version (both 0 miles & fully tuned).

Acura NSX '91:
- max. front downforce: 0
- max. rear downforce: 20
- weight: 1131 kg
- power: 308 kw
- LP: 518

Acura NSX RM '91:
- max. front downforce: 35
- max. rear downforce: 60
- weight: 1045 kg
- power: 308 kw
- LP: 554


Now the interesting point: i put 86 kg ballast to the RM version to get the 1131 kg of the standard version.

Result: 547 LP

29 LP more for the race moded one, both same specs, "just" with more downforce. Take both to the Ring, full round, and i am sure you clearly see the difference. :sly:
 
Okay, 1970 Corvette and 91 NSX RM aside, the HKS CT230R Evo is still not a tuner.

/thread.
 
Toronado
Many of the rally cars, for starters. Though I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what I was saying.
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All rally cars have adjustable front downforce = race car

Every race, rally, stealth or "tuner" car has adjustable & much more downfore as the standard one.

Means it's for sure a advantage for online races if you set only a HP limit. But if you use the LP limit then the one with the HKS have to limit the HP of the car or reduce the downforce.
Then, i think, the advantage is not so big, but the one with a race or "tuner" car is, with a good hp/downforce balance setup individual for the track, faster as everyone with a non race or "tuner" car.
 
ZeGermanBastorD
All rally cars have adjustable front downforce = race car
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But in real life, many of the ones in the game don't. As are many other cars in the game with front downforce. So you can't use that as criteria for what is a race car and what isn't, because PD's consistency in that regard isn't near being accurate.
 
Toronado
But in real life, many of the ones in the game don't. As are many other cars in the game with front downforce. So you can't use that as criteria for what is a race car and what isn't, because PD's consistency in that regard isn't near being accurate.
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Yes, you are right about the point "PD's consistency in that regard". 👍

A good example:

Nissan 370 Tuned Car (GT Academy Version) '08 = adjustable/extra front downforce
all Volkswagen Cup Cars = no front downforce :lol:

But, ignoring now the rare bad examples, nearly every car with a race livery has adjustable/extra front downforce. And a adjustable/extra front downforce is a advantage, especially on tracks with a lot corners.

For me, i would call every car with adjustable/extra front downforce a race car, this includes the HKS.
 
As many of you may know I've been testing 600pp cars around the Nurburgring recently.

The HKS CT230R can lap it in 6:35:XXX

JGTC cars (IMO some of the slowest/slower race cars you can buy (Discounting classics) go round in about 6:15:XXX-6:20:XXX

And that's with less power than the HKS.

The HKS doesn't perform or feel like a full race car on any track. More like a slightly more nimble road car
 
GYMKHANA_RYAN4
As many of you may know I've been testing 600pp cars around the Nurburgring recently.

The HKS CT230R can lap it in 6:35:XXX

JGTC cars (IMO some of the slowest/slower race cars you can buy (Discounting classics) go round in about 6:15:XXX-6:20:XXX

And that's with less power than the HKS.

The HKS doesn't perform or feel like a full race car on any track. More like a slightly more nimble road car
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Congratulations, you've proved nothing.
 
GYMKHANA_RYAN4
As many of you may know I've been testing 600pp cars around the Nurburgring recently.

The HKS CT230R can lap it in 6:35:XXX

JGTC cars (IMO some of the slowest/slower race cars you can buy (Discounting classics) go round in about 6:15:XXX-6:20:XXX

And that's with less power than the HKS.

The HKS doesn't perform or feel like a full race car on any track. More like a slightly more nimble road car
Click to expand...

So because you cannot perform as fast in that vehicle and in your opinion it doesn't "feel" like a race car, then its not a race car?

Sorry but I don't buy it. You continue to ignore the logical arguments made in this case and constantly try to misdirect the debate with counterpoints that at best are illogical points and at worst downright silly. I get it now, you're gonna believe what you want. The point of this thread is to validate your opinion.

Well consider me done here.

Best of luck,

DJ Chon
 
Though I voted "Tuner", because the car is classified in GT5 as a Tuner (being listed in the Tuner section, being "Tuner priced", having Tuned car Sports Soft tyres, and appearing in all kinds of Tuner events) it's by no means a Tuner. It's a monster. A tuner, by my books, is a lightly or heavily modified street car or street based car that bears resemblance to the real thing and keeps most of the original's car bodywork. This "Evo", unlike all Evo's in the world bar the WRC racing ones, is fully made of carbon fiber, features a racing-spec sequential gearbox, a carbon fiber wing attached to it's chasis, the computer power of the whole Apollo program just for it's injectors, a completly stripped and rigidity-reinforced interior, a single seat and no headlights. Tell me, wasn't that the definition of a purpose-built Racing car?

I see it in the same category as the Zonda R and the FXX, although not in the same level as them. Non-sensical cars that aren't road legal, aren't tuner specials, aren't allowed for any type of sanctioned racing, BUT ARE SO FREAKING AWESOME!!!!!! :dopey:.
 
djchon661
So because you cannot perform as fast in that vehicle and in your opinion it doesn't "feel" like a race car, then its not a race car?

Sorry but I don't buy it. You continue to ignore the logical arguments made in this case and constantly try to misdirect the debate with counterpoints that at best are illogical points and at worst downright silly. I get it now, you're gonna believe what you want. The point of this thread is to validate your opinion.

Well consider me done here.

Best of luck,

DJ Chon
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And you keep 'ignoring' the valid points of any arguments that I / other people that voted tuner. Everything we say is apparently completely 'illogical' according to you.

Fair enough, yet I could argue that I feel the same for most of the point's that you have made.

You have an opinion, you'll agree with anything backing that up and nothing against it, most people do it and I don't blame you, but you don't have to say that points we've made are 'downright silly' just because you've looked at them with an incredibly biased viewpoint.

You're as fixed on it being a race car as I am that it isn't.

Yet I do see some points in other users arguments that make sense, such as it has no headlights so it can't be road legal. I agree with that, it's a fact, it's not a road car and I respect that the definition of 'tuning car' is somewhat down to opinion as well. Some believe it to be a hyped up road legal car, others believe it to be a car that is tuned or built to show off a brand/break records. I doubt many people would call the Thrust SSC/Bloodhound a race car, yet they too were built to break records.

I do however see more truth in some of the recent posts that say it falls more into the FXX/599XX/Zonda R category. They aren't road cars, but highly modified road cars tuned to be time attack cars.

I struggle to buy that time attacks are races, yes it may be a 'race against the clock' (but could be a personal test) but I deem an actual race to be when multiple cars are against each other on track trying to reach the line first, with overtaking and pit tactics etc.

But yeah, that's my opinion, you may not agree with it but that doesn't make it 'illogical' or 'downright silly'. It just makes it someone else's opinion. Hopefully you can respect that and let other people think what they want.

And the reason I made this thread was to see what other's opinions are. I'm judging that on the vote for overall opinion. Therefore those that do not want to express it here can have a say as well
 
CarBastard
Though I voted "Tuner", because the car is classified in GT5 as a Tuner (being listed in the Tuner section, being "Tuner priced", having Tuned car Sports Soft tyres, and appearing in all kinds of Tuner events)
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Villain
So you voted "Tuner" but don't consider it to be one.

Nice.
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Read. Letters. In. Bold. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

I won't say anything more to you and your bigoted ways of discussion.

GYMKHANA_RYAN4
You're as fixed on it being a race car as I am that it isn't.

Yet I do see some points in other users arguments that make sense, such as it has no headlights so it can't be road legal. I agree with that, it's a fact, it's not a road car and I respect that the definition of 'tuning car' is somewhat down to opinion as well. Some believe it to be a hyped up road legal car, others believe it to be a car that is tuned or built to show off a brand/break records. I doubt many people would call the Thrust SSC/Bloodhound a race car, yet they too were built to break records.

I do however see more truth in some of the recent posts that say it falls more into the FXX/599XX/Zonda R category. They aren't road cars, but highly modified road cars tuned to be time attack cars.


And the reason I made this thread was to see what other's opinions are. I'm judging that on the vote for overall opinion. Therefore those that do not want to express it here can have a say as well
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And I'm fixed on it being neither of them as I said :sly:. In the interest of a conciliatory conclusion, I think we could agree with this "Middel point" given that it's not built for the specifications of any racing category but it's more than a simply modified road car. The fact it has no headlamps means it's very focused on weight savings for performance purposes, but it renders it useless for a good number of racing categories (Say, SuperGT or any kind of Endurance racing) and for road use. It's body work shows it's not using the same shell of a factory Evo, but it also shows that it isn't quite intended for racing, as other "Race cars" like the SuperGT ones have had way more aerodynamic development and look more extreme than the Evo.

It's, like in the Zonda R/FXX example I already pointed out, an extremely modified fast car and wether it's a Tuner or a Racer depends entirely on your point of view.

GYMKHANA_RYAN4
I struggle to buy that time attacks are races, yes it may be a 'race against the clock' (but could be a personal test) but I deem an actual race to be when multiple cars are against each other on track trying to reach the line first, with overtaking and pit tactics etc.
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I think the same way, I see them more as Motorsport Gatherings or Competitions rather than traditional races (with a pole position, a grid, a set number of laps/distance, and pit stops). Not that I try to devaluate such an amazing category of motorsport!
GYMKHANA_RYAN4
But yeah, that's my opinion, you may not agree with it but that doesn't make it 'illogical' or 'downright silly'. It just makes it someone else's opinion. Hopefully you can respect that and let other people think what they want.
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Absolutely agree here, that's why I propose this "Middle point" to stop this from becoming a stupid flame war of bigots.
 
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I think the fact that the poll is quite close proves that the middle point is probably the best answer. otherwise there would be a much larger difference
 

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