Honda S660- pics of production version undisguised.

  • Thread starter RocZX
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mustafur
Any GT-R with a RB26DETT is a perfect example, what your saying only applies to N/A engines, a turbo can essentially bolted on to most engines high revving or not and Torque will increase substantially where ever the peak torque of the Turbo is acheived
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"The first 2.6 L RB26DETT was rated by Nissan at around 276 HP (206kW) @ 6800 rpm and 260lb·ft (353 Nm) @ 4400 rpm. By the end of production, power levels had gone up to around 276 HP (206kW) @ 6800 rpm and 289lb·ft (392 Nm) @ 4400 rpm"

I don't think 6800rpm really counts as high revving (it's more like average for the engine size) and it's pretty common knowledge that the RB26DETT was in fact making over 300hp from the factory as with most of the 'Gentleman's Agreement' sports car. That's not to say the RB can't seriously rev it's nuts off, but when they are turning over 9,000rpm they are making far more power than torque. (again, LBS*FT to BHP, not NM & KW)

Bopop4
But torque was roughly the same.
If they limit themselves to 660cc then there is no way they're going to make almost 80ft-lbs.
Cars normally make about 1ft-lb per CI, and even a racing engine isn't going to make much more than that, it'll just rev higher.
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Fair enough.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
"The first 2.6 L RB26DETT was rated by Nissan at around 276 HP (206kW) @ 6800 rpm and 260lb·ft (353 Nm) @ 4400 rpm. By the end of production, power levels had gone up to around 276 HP (206kW) @ 6800 rpm and 289lb·ft (392 Nm) @ 4400 rpm"

I don't think 6800rpm really counts as high revving (it's more like average for the engine size) and it's pretty common knowledge that the RB26DETT was in fact making over 300hp from the factory as with most of the 'Gentleman's Agreement' sports car. That's not to say the RB can't seriously rev it's nuts off, but when they are turning over 9,000rpm they are making far more power than torque. (again, LBS*FT to BHP, not NM & KW
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That is Just were it makes its peak numbers, the engine however can rev to 8100RPM on stock tune, which proves you can have a high revving engine and high torque figures, but just don't expect them to be in the same RPM vacinity unless you want a undrivable car.
 
mustafur
That is Jjust were it makes its peak numbers, the engine however can rev high, which proves you can have a high revving engine and high torque figures, but just don't expect them to be in the same RPM vacinity unless you want a undrivable car.
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Regardless of the definition of "high revving", the RB26 will always make more peak BHP than LBS*FT torque, unless there is something wrong with it.

From "highly" tuned:
rb26dynos366.jpg


To basically stock:
RB26DETT_Dyno.jpg


I really doubt you'll ever find a dyno of an RB26DETT where peak torque is higher than peak power. Maybe, MAYBE a late R34, but I still doubt it.

In fact, mathematically, the only way an engine can make more peak torque than peak power is if the hp peak is below 5250rpm. (Nvm this isn't true, sorry)

Anyways, this is off topic. Sorry.
 
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Eunos_Cosmo
Regardless of the definition of "high revving", the RB26 will always make more peak BHP than LBS*FT torque, unless there is something wrong with it.

From "highly" tuned:
rb26dynos366.jpg


To basically stock:
RB26DETT_Dyno.jpg


I really doubt you'll ever find a dyno of an RB26DETT where peak torque is higher than peak power. Maybe, MAYBE a late R34, but I still doubt it.

In fact, mathematically, the only way an engine can make more peak torque than peak power is if the hp peak is below 5250rpm.
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It's easily possible, just put a low range turbo on it, of course you wouldn't find anyone willing to do it though. As they would be all about getting the maximum HP.

On the Honda its very possible that it has a Low Range turbo mounted to a high Revving N/A engine.
 
mustafur
It's easily possible, just put a low range turbo on it, of course you wouldn't find anyone willing to do it though. As they would be all about getting the maximum HP.

On the Honda its very possible that it has a Low Range turbo mounted to a high Revving N/A engine.
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Point 1: You would have a truck engine at that point, and it definitely wouldn't rev high at that point. :lol:

Point 2: The power curve/engine you are describing cannot exist with the figures (77lbs*ft and 63hp) given on the spec sheet. A high revving engine happens when the torque peaks in the upper RPMs. If you put a "Low Range" turbo on the engine, it will shift that torque peak to the lower RPMs. Here is a 600cc motorcycle engine to demonstrate that point.
gsxr600_06_dyno_1005.gif


We don't know where the Honda's peak torque is. Lets imagine an impossible best case scenario. Lets imagine that Honda has worked a miracle and that engine makes peak torque (77lbs*ft) from idle to redline, 1,000rpm-9,000rpm in this imaginary case. It is the ultimate in low end and high end torque. [HP=TQ*RPM/5250]

RPM: BHP
1000: 15
4295: 63 (already at the quoted peak HP output!)
5000: 73
5250: 77
8000: 117
9000: 132

But we already know it can't make more than 63hp so that also means it cannot make 77lbs*ft of torque past 4295RPM. So the RPM point at which this particular engine makes its peak torque MUST BE BELOW 4295rpm.

What is the maximum amount of torque it can make at each RPM interval while never exceeding 63HP?

RPM: TQ cannot exceed:
1000: 330.75
4295: 77
5250: 63
5000: 66.15
8000: 41.34
9000: 36.75

This all points to a decaying torque curve, not a high revving engine, even under unrealistically perfect scenarios. It doesn't take into account things like having to reduce compression when adding a turbocharger.

EDIT: I couldn't have just looked at the spec sheet again and saved some trouble. It says peak torque is at 2,600rpm and peak power is 6,000rpm. So, yeah, not exactly high revving.

If I were to guess, I would say that it will have a surging well of torque (relatively speaking of course, lol) from about 1500rpm to 4500 and then it will exponentially start falling off with nothing left past 7,000rpm. Far from the spunky old beat. :(

EDIT 2: In all fairness, the Beat probably was utterly gutless below 5,000rpm. You just can't have it all when you are playing with 660ccs. For a Daily Driver I'll take the S660. For a sports car, that screaming Beat all the way! If they were the same weight, they would probably be nearly identical in terms of outright performance numbers.
 
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I would like Honda to take the NSX Type R route and make the S1000 a 725kg beast.

Now, pricing. Just because the name "MX-5" is mentioned, does not mean we have to pay MX-5 money. A Copen(not available in Australia, but with turbo as standard) is about
$19000. http://www.caradvice.com.au/292021/daihatsu-copen-revealed/ the CR-Z is about $39k. Is it going to be priced the same as a Jazz/Fit or are a Honda going to suggest it be priced as a specialty "roadster"?
 
sumbrownkid
I think the glory days of gearboxes coming in 5 speeds are long over.
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The australian version of the 2014+ Honda Jazz/Fit uses a 5 Speed manual paired to a L15A engine with a max output of 88hp
Rest of the world gets a 6 Speed paired to a L15B engine with a max output of 125hp

Honda Australia short changes us.
 
legacyMACHINE
I still want this steering wheel no matter what

honda-ev-ster-3-625x431-c.jpg
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I know it isn't real, but how would that even work? It doesn't appear to spin like a conventional steer wheel (the "arms" going into the dash would hit the instrument binnacle after only turning about 45 degrees) and the binnacle itself seems immobile. I wonder if its a push-pull thing, you push the right side joystick thing in to turn right, for example.
 
Really like this. Looks pretty cool, the interior appears to be refreshingly simple and driver-focused, and it seems Honda hasn't forgotten the art of giving people wild paint options rather than just a million shades of silver.

Manual gearbox is also a positive, and while a bit of extra weight next to old kei cars might blunt performance a little, let's be honest here - kei cars have never been fast, and kei sports cars are more about the impression of speed rather than the bare numbers. The thing is tiny, so punted down a twisty road it'll likely still deliver the right feeling.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
I know it isn't real, but how would that even work? It doesn't appear to spin like a conventional steer wheel (the "arms" going into the dash would hit the instrument binnacle after only turning about 45 degrees) and the binnacle itself seems immobile. I wonder if its a push-pull thing, you push the right side joystick thing in to turn right, for example.
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I think it uses a push-pull mechanic. Seeing how the steering structure is, er... structured like that, I could see that kind of mechanism being put into place.
 
RocZX
Leaked brochure images of production S660.
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:drool:

Hopefully Honda won't be a stranger this time around and they will bring either the (still rumored) S660 or the (rumored) S1000 in Europe. What I am afraid of, however, is that the manual version's pedals may be too close to each other.
 
RocZX
Leaked brochure images of production S660.

View attachment 284632 View attachment 284633 View attachment 284634 View attachment 284635
Info on the production version of the leaked brochure.

3395 mm long, 1475 mm wide and 1180 mm tall. And will be 830 kg (1830 lbs) .

It will be powered by a 3-cylinder engine with 63hp and 77 lb-ft of torque. And have a 6-speed manual or an optional continuously variable transmission. And the vehicle can hit a top speed of 140 km/h (87 mph).
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I know this wasn't overlooked, but I think it contains the info needed regarding aspiration.

47 kW at 6000 rpm, 104 Nm at 2600 rpm.

That alone screams turbo, especially 158 Nm per litre. I know of no production NA engine producing quite so much specific torque; the Ferrari 458 is one of the best at 540 from 4.5 litres: 120 Nm per litre.

A quick scan of the katakana doesn't yield our friend ターボ, but I suspect there's more than one way to write it, not that I know what I'm talking about.


I'd be quite excited about a larger displacement version... if it's RWD.

Now, it looks like there are axle weights provided, which imply a weight bias of 380:470, or about 55% rearward. :)
 
Grandea GTR
I think it uses a push-pull mechanic. Seeing how the steering structure is, er... structured like that, I could see that kind of mechanism being put into place.
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WWI Tanks(think the Mk V had it) used this system, tanks were not known for their handling abilities.
 
Grayfox
WWI Tanks(think the Mk V had it) used this system, tanks were not known for their handling abilities.
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You'd be surprised. I rode in a Scorpion once on the road (rubbered tracks), and on approach to a corner, I expected we needed to slow down to chug around it. Not so, we just went around like a car would - there was a moment just before the corner, already "too late" to brake, that my brother and I looked at each other in disbelief!

Besides, that's still a car. It'd still handle like a car, just steered differently. But then it's not quite real, either :P
 
Why are cars always either
A) powerful and heavy?
B) light and weak?

It looks absolutely stunning, but with that sort of horse power...

Well either way, I got a month from release til the first Hayabusa conversion.

 
bremics
Do they get tax cuts or something?
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They're cheaper to deal with in Japan, which is why they're rather popular. There are various class sizes when it comes to a vehicle over there, and how much you pay for tax and whatnot depends on the size.
 

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