How did Gran Turismo Sport make GT franchise no longer a laughing stock?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by o000o, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Groundfish

    Groundfish Premium

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    I agree. What’s weird is being a middle aged guy who got back into gaming because of the quality available now in racing titles.
    I got every one on console that interested me, and all have their perks. I don’t get this constant barrage of people espousing one game over others, although Gt Sport is my favorite I love Dirt rally 1 and 2 and ac also.
    For someone like me who has not done sim race prior to Gt Sport, it’s plenty challenging and I have played what 23 or 24 days in it.
    Dirt rally as soon as I played was fricken awesome. Ac has excellent ai which is fantastic for single player. Even pc2 is cool in its own way.
    I think for anyone who enjoys motorsport and gaming there has never been a better time to game.
    It does seem like the sim community as a whole online loves arguing about physics and tire models way too much.
    For me it’s is the game fun. They are all fun in their own way.
    It’s a great time to game imo.
     
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  2. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    While GT is far from being a perfect game, it's also far from being a laughing stock, too. Wanna know what a laughing stock game really is? This game is one of those.

     
  3. Hoopzah

    Hoopzah

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    The only laughing stock I'm aware of is a subject title like that trying to get people riled up. Didn't get the car you wanted in the update or something?
     
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  4. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Both FM and GT have iffy physics, they may be wrong in different areas, but the are still roughly equally wrong.
     
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  5. Nielsen

    Nielsen

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    I didn't say GTS has flawless physics, but to me it's more transparent than FM7.
     
  6. Crazy Taylor

    Crazy Taylor

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    To say GT Sport is a 'laughing stock', would be to say it's a 'joke'. I believe it's far from it. You have to far on the negative side of the scale to believe that.
     
  7. RACECAR

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    I honestly feel that right there is the main problem: Most people have gotten so consumed with that so much, they've completely forgotten the fun part. There's some people that haven't, but they tend to be swept under the rug of all the bickering.
     
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  8. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    The flaws are transparent in both titles, yet you chose to list physics as a negative under one of them only, yet by any reasonable assesment, both have clear issues with the physics model.
     
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  9. Nielsen

    Nielsen

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    I chose to do that because FM7 physics feel like they have to be tamed. This is not the case in GTS, although it does have room for improvement when compared to something like AC. So in other words, GTS feels more intuitive to drive without practice than FM7 physics do.

    Let me put it like this. I can take a long break break from GTS and immediately relate to to the physics when returning to it. Coming back to FM7 after a similar break always resets my learning curve somewhat, meaning it takes several laps before I feel comfortable again. Physics first and foremost have to be intuitive. This is why GTS physics are listed as a positive whereas FM7 physics aren't despite none of the two being stellar physics-wise.
     
  10. o000o

    o000o

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    Not GT Sport, but GT was regarded as laughing stock in PS3 era but GT Sport can make GT no longer laughing stock despite the flaws I mentioned in first post.
     
  11. mynameis66

    mynameis66

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    Was it a laughing stock in the ps3 era?
     
  12. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    Biggest improvements in the game are sounds, livery editor, HUD, having at least two categories that had more than 5 cars at parity and culling assets that were not up to standard for PS4.
     
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  13. azrilnazli

    azrilnazli

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    I assume PD sent their engineers to study iRacing matchmaking system and japanese have their own forum and private league over there ( gt3 or mx5 ) and they very active in VLN.

    So probably 2-3 are from PD to learn and study the system.

    So the similarities
    - match making only works if enough people signing up
    - race by series ( in gts race a b and c )
    - driver ranked by Driver Ranking
    - driver strength = assigned car number

    Well almost the same but there are differences
    - iracing sort people by division at the end of each season ( 12 weeks )
    - there are 10 divisions, #1 is most prestigous
    - in iracing Pro license is similar to imoossible for normal people to achieve, and in gts, S rank is equal to Pro
     
  14. MXH

    MXH Premium

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    What's not to laugh about standard cars, blacked out cockpit view & the infamous vacuum cleaner sounds?

    Things have certainly changed for the better but damn, some people do forget fast.
     
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  15. WaikeCU

    WaikeCU

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    I don't think so.

    For me it's not a laughing stock simply because of its franchise history. Back in the early days of the brand Playstation, GT1 was the ultimate drivers game on the console. Back then it had competition with Ridge Racer imo, but Ridge Racer felt rather arcady. GT1 was the ultimate go-to game, because it had the 'back then' realistic graphics and the cars were real cars that existed on the road. You could say it's a laughing stock because it didn't have the car list that featured 200 cars with more than 20 versions of Honda Civics, but the cars now are more refined and detailed. It just shows you that 'Quality over Quantity' has a true meaning. Graphics for me was never a problem with PD. I knew they always bring great visuals to their games.

    To me GT franchise keeps being the game changer. Now with the FIA backing, more and more real drivers that are active on GTS and vice versa, it also means that being successful on GT(S) could open doors to new opportunities.

    It's anything but a laughing stock. It's a real business nowadays imo.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  16. Highlandor

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    GT maybe have been a laughing stock to those who were never fans of it in the first place, but that's fairly natural response, especially for the interweb.

    For the people who were fans or players of GT but now aren't (including GT5, GT6 & GTS), the game isn't a laughing stock, more of a banging your head against the wall and tearing your hair out nightmare.

    The mass exodus of long term fans, including entire race series or dedicated GT websites, during GT5 and GT6, shows that there was something, or multiple things, very wrong in the game.

    IMO if it weren't for GT Academy, the current FIA partnership and a true competitor, I think GT would be pretty much dead i.e. it wouldn't sell enough to be profitable.

    I don't find anything funny about what has happened to GT, if anything I feel the opposite i.e. quite sad that something that was so good and so much fun is now the opposite.
     
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  17. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    In that regard, we don't agree. Coming from either reality or even AC or PC2 I don't find GTS to be intuitive at all.

    A good number of areas of its physics engine are utterly counter-intuitive in regard to reality, particularly with regard to its tyre and damper model, not to mention the FFB issues it has when it comes to oversteer.
     
  18. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim Premium

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    Here ends the gospel according to St Slip. If more people had this attitude the racing game space on the interwebz would be a much nicer place.
     
  19. beyond72

    beyond72

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    The main thing which would put me off buying another GT game.

    Despite it's flaws, the free play mode makes it one of my favourite driving games of all time.
    For me it's what GT6 promised to be.

    Letting you drive different cars in a single championship (and pick between short or long races) is a great touch though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  20. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    100% agree.

    I certainly can't recall a better time to be a sim-racer at all.

    I really enjoy GTS for its visuals and overall accessibility, regardless of its physics issues, ditto with Forza when I've played it. Add in then the number of more focused (for want of a better word) sims, be they track or rally focused.
     
  21. AlanH49

    AlanH49

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    I think ‘flaw’ is the wrong term to use. I’d class it more as ‘concessions’ for a wider audience and controller users.

    Yesterday I drove plenty of laps in the 962. Also one of my favourite cars in Assetto Corsa. Immediately they felt very similar. A vacant front end, but fantastic traction. It feels like a high downforce GT car and quite unique.

    As I say, between GTS & AC, the 962 felt very similar. But it is obvious GTS allows you to take more liberties under braking and on the kerbs. As a largely DS4 user it allows me to really push the car. In AC the car could be tamed, but I never felt able to really push. Meanwhile, in PCars2 Group C cars where virtually underivable on a pad.
     
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  22. JayRS200

    JayRS200

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    It's all relative. We are judging what we have at a specific time. Graphics improve, other things improve.

    Pick an analogy.
     
  23. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    I think 'flaw' is exactly the right word.

    Launching a car from standstill results in majority showing no torque steer at all, and the ones that do it is significantly reduced and occurring far too late, that's a flaw.

    From standstill the pick-up of grip is utterly and completely wrong, resulting in the engine bouncing off the rev-limiter repeatedly, rather than dropping and then picking up as it should, that's a flaw.

    The dampers are work as if they are perfect and able to return a car to a settled state after one cycle, that's a flaw.

    The FFB adds in vibration on understeer or oversteer, that's a flaw.

    The FFB uses a reduction in Self Aligning Torque to indicate oversteer (this should only occur on understeer), that's a flaw.

    If you wish to describe these as 'concessions' then feel free, but they are quick clearly areas (and more exist) that show the physics engine differing from reality, those to me are flaws. They don't stop me playing GTS, but it also doesn't mean I'm going to ignore them or excuse them.
     
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  24. burritoo

    burritoo

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    The series and Sport itself, are in a much better position compared to the PS3 era titles. The "soft reboot" approach PD took has definitely helped them organize things, even if there have been some tradeoffs along the way. I still find it hard to believe how something as simple as "locked 60fps" was considered a pipe dream for PD and Kaz in that same era. It's been a racing sim standard for decades, so it's awesome that we've returned back to the same level of greatness that the PS2 era had.
     
  25. MikeV27

    MikeV27

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    No more recycled “standard” cars from last gen games.

    The sound is also much better, I remember putting the racing exhaust on a Camaro SS back in the day and having it sound like a vacuum cleaner.

    GTS got delayed but at least they didn’t wait until the end of the PS4 era to release it. GT6 releasing on PS3 a month after the PS4 came out was a joke.

    I love GT and owned them all, but the PS3 era wasn’t as spectacular as people make it out to be. FM was the better series at the time imho, especially FM4. Unfortunately FM starting sucking as soon as it hit the Xbox one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  26. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Quite agree.

    Technically unless you have a PS4 Pro its not a locked frame rate, they hit 60fps the vast majority of the time, but it can on rare occasions drop below that.
     
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  27. Hoopzah

    Hoopzah

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    Uhh.. what wheel do you use??
     
  28. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    T300, but it was exactly the same with a T150 and the G29 I have also used on a friends PS4, its a known issue as a number of members here have also observed (one recent example).
     
  29. Hoopzah

    Hoopzah

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    Interesting.
    I think they may have made a mistake designing the "feel" of the actual physics around 1 wheel, the T-GT. And the game is at a stage where I'm not sure they would be willing to go back and redo alot of the code for other wheels, because some of what you mention isn't present in the T-GT (like the feeling of loss of grip and dampers returning to center.) I would imagine the feeling of shifting mass should be an easy fix.. but I'm not a coder.

    As far as the SAT (or Mz), hopefully someone at PD sees this and takes this into consideration for future changes because I think you may be on to something.. there is tire flex, and speed difference so there must be an individual tire physics model.. but nobody's articulated it that well. (That I've seen.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  30. Silver Arrows

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    What do you expect? This mentality runs deeper on this site then I think people imagine, even with the glut of good titles available in the genre.
     
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