How "Special" are PRO race Drivers?

[nitrorocks]

On that note, I'd be mighty impressed if someone on here (christhedude notwithstanding, as he races in the VLN series and is probably fit enough to do so) could even last 30 laps in an F1 car without passing out, let alone do it at anything resembling quick. I probably wouldn't even last three.

Christthedude races VLN? Where can I find his page? Still new tk GTP.

 

[McLaren]

I see no proof or argument to back up your 3 word response.

If millions are so capable of what Lewis has done in Formula 1 as you claimed, then where are these people? Because right now, besides the 24 drivers & back up drivers, I would figure there would be at least another 100 or 200 out of these "capable millions" just lining up out the door for a chance to take Lewis' seat.

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yep because being a racing driver at the top tier doesn't involve comparable levels of fitness to traditional sports at all....

(...)

...seriously now your post is so far off the mark its ridiculous.

Interesting defence reaction with those googled links because I didn't even directly mention fitness and I definitely wasn't questioning the fitness part. I was just talking mainly from another aspect (level of competition compared to other sports). I'm not sure "comparable" level is enough if the question is which discipline requires more from the athlete. The thing that there are articles named "F1 drivers are athletes too" is a bit telling though.

If we are only talking about F1 (I wasn't) then it should be fair to narrow down the "other sports" category quite a lot.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Hammond's not much of a measurement, he's just some guy.

 

[Northstar]

What are the chances Mario Andretti's grandson is good enough to win the Indy 500.....slim but he'll likely do it.

Granted Marco is nowhere near what Mario was, he isn't exactly horrible either. In the 6 years he has run the 500 he has finished on podium in 3 of those(2006, 2008, 2010) and of the 3 he didn't he crashed in 2 and was the highest finishing Andretti car in 2011 finishing 9th.


Honestly, the more you post the more I get the impression that you are one of those people that think since you can beat an F1 pole time in GT5 it must be easy in real life. Frankly there is a reason why they make million's and a McDonalds cashier doesn't.

 

[Sohvakettu]

Not trying to spam with a link to a commercial site but this is what certain swordsman recommended everyone believing in talent to read: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007350546/?tag=gtplanetuk-20

Most important things for achieving a top level performance: good purposefull practice, certain level of physical and intellectual ability (that are lower than many people believe), good enough sosial skills to get the right doors open and blind luck (like being born in a wealthy enough surroundings for example).

For me talent is an illusion born from us being unable to see the sheer amount of work that is needed for very high level of skill. Top athletes work even more for their trade than we imagine sacrificing a lot. I personally have been called talented when in reality I just worked single mindedly for the skill in question. It was never easy and I never got anything for free (nor anyone else called talented that I know of). The moment I eased up on working my skill leveled and even deteriorated.

 

[Darkblaze]

yeah sure, u don't just need life-long training and experience to be an F1 racedriver ....u need to be gifted!! the reflexes , the level of concentration that they need is superhuman!!

 

[Sohvakettu]

There is a physical limit on the reflex speed of a human and it's universal set by biological limitations of our nervous system. Racing isn't about reflexes but about predicting, being prepared. While i normally wouldn't recommend Jeremy Clarkson for anything factual you might want to see BBC documentary Speed. Turns out Clarkson has the same reflex speed as Michael Schumacher. Clarkson super talented racer? Not likely.

Edit: You might also want to read Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley. A good book about race driving.

 

[Darkblaze]

There is a physical limit on the reflex speed of a human and it's universal set by biological limitations of our nervous system. Racing isn't about reflexes but about predicting, being prepared. While i normally wouldn't recommend Jeremy Clarkson for anything factual you might want to see BBC documentary Speed. Turns out Clarkson has the same reflex speed as Michael Schumacher. Clarkson super talented racer? Not likely.

Edit: You might also want to read Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley. A good book about race driving.

yeah, thats where the experience comes in.
what im saying is that it takes both these factors i think....there are always going to be unexpected events during a race. and thats when the reflexes and concentration span comes in

 

[Scaff]

Interesting defence reaction with those googled links because I didn't even directly mention fitness and I definitely wasn't questioning the fitness part. I was just talking mainly from another aspect (level of competition compared to other sports). I'm not sure "comparable" level is enough if the question is which discipline requires more from the athlete.

Are you sure about that......

but without a doubt I can put olympic level athletes above top tier racing drivers.

....because it certainly sounds like you are to me.

The thing that there are articles named "F1 drivers are athletes too" is a bit telling though.

Maybe that because enough people are daft enough to look at the sport and consider it to be little more than 'sitting in a car'. However popular opinion and fact are not always one and the same.

This does also fly in the face once again of your repeated claim to not be questioning fitness levels.

If we are only talking about F1 (I wasn't) then it should be fair to narrow down the "other sports" category quite a lot.

I wasn't only talking about F1, however information on F1 fitness is quick and easy to find, I m however more than happy to await your counterpoint and the volumes of links on how fitness is not a requirement in motorsport.


Scaff

 

[Sach]

Your right. Even overweight people like Tony Stewart can win Nascar Championships...

Can you name even a single overweight F1 driver who had any real success? NASCAR G-force does not compare to F1.

 

[Darkblaze]

Can you name even a single overweight F1 driver who had any real success? NASCAR G-force does not compare to F1.

Good point! plus, I really doubt overweight ppl can even fit into an F1 machine

 

[homeforsummer]

However I have turned in 10 laps of Castle Combe in a Radical SR3, so I do have an idea of what its like to drive a high-downforce, high-g car (and still a fraction of that an F1 or LMP produces) at speed.

At around 7/10th of the car performance (and around my limit for the time I had with the car) it was the single most mentally and physically draining thing I had ever done.

Seconded on this scenario. I did a go-kart race at Circuit Alain Prost at Le Mans four or five years ago. I was probably as fit as I'd ever been at that point, but outdoor karting in 30 degree heat was absolutely knackering. And the sort of karts I was using produce a maximum of about 2g in the corners.

There's no way I could do F1 with braking and cornering forces of double that. I'm not unfit and certainly not unhealthy but my level of fitness probably wouldn't let me compete at any higher level than touring cars, and even then I'd be significantly off the fitness levels of the top drivers in those series.

I'm wondering if there are any other sports in which people lose quite as much fluid in the space of a couple of hours as in F1? Tennis stars lose about the same in double the amount of time and I've always seen tennis players as needing high levels of fitness.

 

[Blaze_409]

Think about how many people are racing at the moment, or aspire to. Only the 24 best get to race in Formula 1.

That is a lie lol. There's plenty of Pay drivers in F1.

 

[Darkblaze]

That is a lie lol. There's plenty of Pay drivers in F1.

i know....F1 is tainted with money......but u just gotta admit on the skill of these drivers.

 

[TheCracker]

That is a lie lol. There's plenty of Pay drivers in F1.

They might be 'pay drivers' but they've proved themselves in other formulas. The fact that they have generous benefactors may muddy the water to where their natural talent might be pegged in the grand scheme of things, but you can be assured that it's still at the very top of the talent ladder.

 

[niky]

That is a lie lol. There's plenty of Pay drivers in F1.

As said, those pay drivers are champions in other motorsports and series and are often either experienced open-wheel racers from other series or hot new (and super-quick) rookies.

And yet... how many of those "pay" drivers (drivers brought in only for advertising dollars (*cough* Schumacher *cough*) and not simply due to their talent) are at the sharp end of the grid?

 

[daan]

-Layman celebrities coming within 2 secs a lap of Sebastion Vettel, a world champion in his prime

See, you can't have a discussion with someone like you who changes facts to suit themselves.

2.7 seconds (I said 2.4 earlier but I can't count) of a gap is not "within 2 seconds." It's within 3 seconds. It's within 2.7 seconds, but in no way is it within 2.

 

[Sohvakettu]

And 2 seconds is an eternity in motorsports. Count how much the time difference would be over the whole race distance.

 

[TheCracker]

Lets not forget that the times posted by the regular 'SIARPC' guests are after a solid mornings worth of tutoring from a professional racing driver, who'll not only show them the correct line but will push them out of their comfort zone. Left to their own devices, i doubt the majority of them would get within 5 seconds.

 

[Scaff]

i know....F1 is tainted with money......but u just gotta admit on the skill of these drivers.

One quick note, please stop using text speak the AUP is quite clear that its not allowed.

You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters.

However on the point in question you are quite right, to race in F1 you need an FIA Super Licence...

To qualify for an FIA Super Licence the requesting driver must already be the holder of a Grade A competition licence, and additionally meet the requirements of the FIA International Sporting Code, Appendix L. These requirements state that the driver must be either the reigning champion in a lower category of motor sport, for example Formula 3 (British, Italian or Japanese championship, or Euroseries), Formula 2, or GP2 Series (formerly known as Formula 3000), or must have consistently finished well in these categories. For example, a driver finishing in the first three positions five times within the last two years in GP2 will be eligible for a Super Licence.
Additionally, drivers who have competed in the IndyCar Series are eligible for a Super Licence if they finished within the first four places of the drivers championship. This allows drivers from the United States domestic series to move into Formula One without first taking part in other FIA sanctioned events. Under exceptional circumstances Appendix L also allows the FIA to award a Super Licence to a driver who does not meet the normal criteria if a vote reveals unanimous agreement by the members, and provided that the driver has completed 300 kilometres of testing at racing speeds in a current car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIA_Super_Licence


...which they don't just hand out.


Scaff

 

[Pezzarinho17]

Its a shame you (Rich S - if it wasn't already obvious) are in the US, F1 race centre near me would make you see a few truths....

I instruct on Saturday's, and I will see maybe 5 people a day with the same belief as yourself. The session itself is 30 minutes in car, which by your accounts is enough time to match Webber's time. Heck, your even on the most basic race track we have, with no damage, without tyre management, without brake management, without any steering dials / switches, motion limited to a fraction of the G forces and with just a sprinkle of traction control as well. So what is the problem? Surely within 10 minutes you would be 0.5s off Webber and within 30 minutes you'd be a second in hand each lap, if not more!

I love my job. Forget the F1 race instructor stuff, its seeing people like you come crashing back down to Earth. Or even better, blame something else (always good to have a few racing excuses!).

 

[Rich S]

I actually have one example of the strength needed to be able to drive these high-power, high-grip cars Like LMP1/2 F1 etc.

Petter Solberg, a WRC Champion(the year before the Loeb reign), was in early 2011 trying out to run the 24h LeMans race in a LMP2 car.
He was putting down some impressive lap times, but. after close to an hour in the seat he was completely "worn out".
The strain on the neck and arm muscles was incredible high according to him.

By thinking of the fitness needed to be a top WRC driver, this gave me an eye opener of what is required from an LMP or F1 driver.

There's no doubt driving a race specific car uses a narrow range of muscle groups, therefore it seems extremely daunting at first to a layman.

However, it seems to be one of those activities that gets much MUCH easier over time.

Maybe it would take abit longer, but I believe a relatively "average" person can come close to what an F1 driver would be able to do. Lets face it, if one can come within 2 secs (like the celebrities in the reasonably priced car) they could go all the way and stay with Vettel.

If one has never run before, and all of a sudden jog 5K, it's going to hurt the next day, and the next. One may quit & run very little after that because they believe they just dont have the talent. Thats not true, it would have gotten much easier later on if they had stuck with it.

I see that in alot of these people who claim driving a race car is to absurdly difficult. I believe once your neck & upper body have adapted to its unique requirements, even the trained layman could drive an F1 car quick and atleast look competitive during a gran prix.

 

[TheCracker]

There's no doubt driving a race specific car uses a narrow range of muscle groups, therefore it seems extremely daunting at first to a layman.

However, it seems to be one of those activities that gets much MUCH easier over time.

If you have never run before, and all of a sudden jog 5K, it's going to hurt the next day, and the next. They may quit of run very little after that because they believe they just dont have the talent. Thats not true, it would have gotten much easier later on if they had stuck with it.

I see that in alot of these people who claim driving a race car is to absurdly difficult. I believe once your neck & upper body have adapted to its unique requirements, even the trained layman could drive an F1 car quick and atleast look competitive during a gran prix.

You can't just 'adapt' to the stresses of driving an F1 car - you have to actively train those muscle groups outside of the car.

 

[hampus_dh]

Lalaland
A fictional, nonphysical place where people out of touch with reality live and where nonsensical ideas come from; often used sarcastically pertaining to where one's mind has gone

 

[Rich S]

Can you name even a single overweight F1 driver who had any real success? NASCAR G-force does not compare to F1.

Paul Tracy has always struck me as a curiosity. He saw alot of success in CART, which included some of the highest G-forces seeing in motor sports ever (on the short ovals). He was a "big guy" all through his successes. At Montreal he lapped within a few seconds of the F1 times in a CART car, & almost certainly would have been competitive in the F1 series at the time.

 

[Small_Fryz]

I see that in alot of these people who claim driving a race car is to absurdly difficult. I believe once your neck & upper body have adapted to its unique requirements, even the trained layman could drive an F1 car quick and atleast look competitive during a gran prix.

It is clear to me that you have never tried to drive something fast. As somebody who has raced a lot of Racing Simulators and risen to a decent level I can tell you that the top tier guys (top 20 in the world) are just insane... I can only imagine how epic the guys in F1 must be considering they do it "in real life".

The art of driving a car fast certainly requires natural talent, just like the art of kicking a soccer ball or the art of tennis.

I could apply your argument to football (soccer)?

Train enough and I should be able to kick as good as Ronaldo right?

 

[TheCracker]

Paul Tracy has always struck me as a curiosity. He saw alot of success in CART, which included some of the highest G-forces seeing in motor sports ever (on the short ovals). He was a "big guy" all through his successes. At Montreal he lapped within a few seconds of the F1 times in a CART car, & almost certainly would have been competitive in the F1 series at the time.

Not sure where you get your info from, but from what i understand, in the years that CART ventured to Montreal, the quickest they ever lapped there was a 1.19.00. At the time F1's were lapping in 1.12.30.

Not dismissing Tracy's talents, but he was pretty much owned by Sébastien Bourdais most of the time. Bourdais hardly set the F1 world alight in his time there did he?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I think the OP is either delusional or just trolling, I hope it is the latter. Going from saying athletics being more dangerous than motorsport and anyone could be as good as the top drivers with a little practice is laughable at really. If that is the case, then the same can be applied to the olympics. Some of the events like endurance ones, require really require high levels of fitness (Stamina in endurance races). F1 requires fitness and skill .

OP try out Ferrari Virtual Academy on PC if you can and tell us if within a few laps you are beating these F1 drivers in the virtual world or close to their pace.

 

[Rich S]

I believe the listed lap record for Circuit Gilles Villeneuve is 1'13.622. Whereas the CART record was 1'18.95.

Anyways, the physical requirements of that particular F1 circuit are not significant compared to some of the high speed ovals CART raced on, where Tracy was certainly not at a disadvantage. Over-weight and all.