How "Special" are PRO race Drivers?

[nitrorocks]

Nope, Kenny Bracks is def the highest at 210 or so.

Wasn't Kenny's crash in an Indy Car?

 

[hampus_dh]

Didn't David Purely crash at Silverstone testing estimated at 179G? Highest G impact ever survived?

Highest G impact ever recorded is Kenny Bräck´s. (since they started to record it)

Nope, Kenny Bracks is def the highest at 210 or so.

217G to be exact according to Wiki.

Wasn't Kenny's crash in an Indy Car?

Yes, Indy car.

Doesn´t look very pleasant.

 

[Sach]

Just had to post this, one last thing. Listen to what he says, starting right at 1:27...

 

[hampus_dh]

That´s just Bräcks opinion....

 

[Grand Prix]

It may feel strange to call them athletes, because in a sense, their athletics and genes don't determine who wins as much as other sports and games do. Their brains do. The athleticism is a requirement, but it is not the main factor of performance.

However, racing drivers are superbly awesome sportsmen because of what they do. Whether that is running in a pack of cars on a oval at over 200mph for two hours, fighting the track and car on the razor's edge for 1 and half hours, driving on unpredictable and dangerous dirt trails or racing with a myriad of different cars for 4 hour stints. There is no question that no matter the category of racing, they are amazing at what they do. I don't think any other sport has had such a wide divergence of specialties since their origin. Its history is also way more interesting than any other sport or game IMO.

Only the person who makes best use of his/her tools and circumstances will come out on top. Lots of people say it is not a sport because it is "all down to the car"... But in my opinion that is just nonsense. True, if you're driving for HRT your chances of winning the championship are slim to none even if you are the most awesome driver on the planet, but likewise, not even Wayne Gretzky could win the Stanley Cup if his team and goaltender were absolute rubbish. So you see it in other sports as well.

At the end of the day, motorsports are different. It's about driving a car to it's absolute limit on a road as fast as possible, and trying to beat several other people all trying to do the same thing. That's what makes them special.

 

[Pupik]

By now, I've come to the conclusion that Rich S thinks that racing drivers are witches having the same weight as ducks.

 

[Joey D]

I don't really see racers as athletes, but I don't discount the fact that they are skilled at what they do though and nothing about racing is all that easy. I also don't discount the fact there is physical activity involved with driving a car.

To me athleticism is something that can't really be taught, it's something you are born with. Me, I can never be athletic due to my build, inability to maintain any form of stamina, asthma and other physical limitations. I can't even begin to play any sport without collapsing into a pile of wheezing, aching death. However, I can race a car, albeit not well. I can continue to improve myself though and get to a level that is respectable enough for someone without deep pockets.

I see driving and racing skill as something you learn, not something that you are naturally good at like I think of with athleticism. With the right amount of practice and training I think anyone could be a racer, I mean for godsakes if I can do it anyone can .

 

[Kamuifanboy]

I see driving and racing skill as something you learn, not something that you are naturally good at like I think of with athleticism. With the right amount of practice and training I think anyone could be a racer, I mean for godsakes if I can do it anyone can .

I'll say this again. Driving fast isn't that difficult. But driving REALLY fast, having to check your mirrors, pass cars, get passed, worry about tire wear, changing track condition, ect ect. Is another. Driving REALLY fast is something you simply cannot learn, you are born with it.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

In my opinion, one doesnt need to spend 12 hours a week training for formula racing outside the car...... but not many will believe that.....because they lack an open mind & are ignorant themselves (in my opinion.)

ugh, just now saw this. You sir, make me sick. You call us ignorant, when you have brought no factual arguments to anything and we have proven you incorrect, using facts mind you, more times than I feel like even counting. Your definition of ignorant must be seriously jaded.

Formula 1 Drivers train 7 days a week. 3-4 hours Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And An hour and a half on Friday, Saturday, Sunday (yes, on race days). And yes, I do know this because the program I am coming through has the choice of going to Formula 1. Although I don't expect to be good enough to do so, Toyota has sat me down and told me the sort of schedule a Formula 1 driver endures during a week.

 

[Joey D]

I'll say this again. Driving fast isn't that difficult. But driving REALLY fast, having to check your mirrors, pass cars, get passed, worry about tire wear, changing track condition, ect ect. Is another. Driving REALLY fast is something you simply cannot learn, you are born with it.

You aren't born with it, there is no natural instinct to drive. There is however natural instinct to run, jump, crawl, climb, etc.

With enough practice you could learn to drive fast and drive well. It takes a lot of work to get to that level. You need to study films and books, you need to understand physics, you need to understand the working of a car and you need to get track time.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

You aren't born with it, there is no natural instinct to drive. There is however natural instinct to run, jump, crawl, climb, etc.

With enough practice you could learn to drive fast and drive well. It takes a lot of work to get to that level. You need to study films and books, you need to understand physics, you need to understand the working of a car and you need to get track time.

How is moving your eyes, arms, fingers, head, legs, brain and feet not considered Natural instinct? All the components you need to "drive."

Again, but to be of the level that most, I won't say all because some are literally just mad rich, professional race car drivers are, you have to be above the norm. Which i'd be willing to bet, because they are the ones driving race cars and you are not. That they are better than the norm.

 

[Small_Fryz]

You aren't born with it, there is no natural instinct to drive. There is however natural instinct to run, jump, crawl, climb, etc.

With enough practice you could learn to drive fast and drive well. It takes a lot of work to get to that level. You need to study films and books, you need to understand physics, you need to understand the working of a car and you need to get track time.

Wow.. just wow..

I can say exactly the same thing about working hard to be good at a sport. I can learn techniques, train, eat right and I would become fairly good. But could I make international level? that's another story.

I will say it again.... Its one thing to be "fast" its another to be one of the best in the world. No amount of learning, reading or practise will close the gap to someone with that natural talent.

But considering most people don't try to ever drive fast and never understand the difficulty behind it, its understandable people think as they do.

Its clear to me that you have never attempted to be the best in the world at anything to do with Driving, nor have you compared yourself to someone who is a professional.

 

[Grand Prix]

It's not natural to pass around something on ice skates with a stick either, or swing a stick at a ball that someone else wants to catch, or kick around a ball, or pass around a ball with someone wanting to knock you to the ground to prevent you running away with it, etc. These are all learned skills. The only truly natural activity is running (and climbing, maybe) and even that needs learned techniques to get the most out of it. But it's also the activity most dominated by genes; how well you do depends on, like Niky said, what part of Africa you were born in. You can only be as good as your genes allow.

Motorsport takes away most of that limitation, but that is not to say there aren't drivers out there that have the right "wiring" for it. If everyone could do well in it there wouldn't be any "alien" people out there that are just naturally better. It's not completely black and white, you see. Compare Prost and Senna. Or Stewart and Clark. One did well through learned technique, the other with raw talent, but neither completely without the other attributes. It's about having the best overall package.

 

[squirlybmx]

To me, it comes down to being contempt with the fact that you make start your last race, jump your last jump, dive your last skydive, etc. and being able to blatantly put that aside to just do what you love. It really is an ignorance that you need to have to do these things. I couldn't even begin to try and count the times I've simply said "ah screw it, if I go on this at least I'll have been doing what I love".

 

[Schwartz]

To me, it comes down to being contempt with the fact that you make start your last race, jump your last jump, dive your last skydive, etc. and being able to blatantly put that aside to just do what you love. It really is an ignorance that you need to have to do these things. I couldn't even begin to try and count the times I've simply said "ah screw it, if I go on this at least I'll have been doing what I love".

Agree totally. If you're too afraid to die doing what you love more than anything so you don't do it, then why even live at all?

 

[Azuremen]

You aren't born with it, there is no natural instinct to drive. There is however natural instinct to run, jump, crawl, climb, etc.

With enough practice you could learn to drive fast and drive well. It takes a lot of work to get to that level. You need to study films and books, you need to understand physics, you need to understand the working of a car and you need to get track time.

People are born with natural aptitude for all kinds of things that aren't what you'd call evolved behaviors. Some kids are just awesome at video games, others are terrible. Some people can easily wrap their minds around chess, others can not.

Some people have natural talent. Some kids can just get in a car and figure out - most can not. One could easily argue StarCraft would be even easier to get good at than racing, because there is very little "evolved behavior" involved, certainly less so than racing, which is more taxing on more of the body. However, there are people that are vastly better at the game without nearly as much time invested as others. Like, I'm talking as vast as the space between here and another star difference.

Like I said before, some people just get things; regardless if they "natural."

 

[homeforsummer]

In my opinion, one doesnt need to spend 12 hours a week training for formula racing outside the car...... but not many will believe that.....because they lack an open mind & are ignorant themselves (in my

It's nothing to do with being ignorant, unless you're referring to yourself. You've shown yourself utterly incapable of understanding how fit grand prix drivers need to be so it's no wonder you see all that training as being unnecessary.

It's nothing to do with opinion - you're simply factually incorrect. Live with it, or drop that line of argument.

 

[Scaff]

I don't really see racers as athletes, but I don't discount the fact that they are skilled at what they do though and nothing about racing is all that easy. I also don't discount the fact there is physical activity involved with driving a car.

To me athleticism is something that can't really be taught, it's something you are born with. Me, I can never be athletic due to my build, inability to maintain any form of stamina, asthma and other physical limitations. I can't even begin to play any sport without collapsing into a pile of wheezing, aching death. However, I can race a car, albeit not well. I can continue to improve myself though and get to a level that is respectable enough for someone without deep pockets.

I see driving and racing skill as something you learn, not something that you are naturally good at like I think of with athleticism. With the right amount of practice and training I think anyone could be a racer, I mean for godsakes if I can do it anyone can .

Please keep in mind that we are talking about the very top tier of motorsport here, with a focus in part on high downforce Formula cars.

So with that in mind, yes you can drive and race, most of us on here could do to a greater or lesser degree (some in fact have or do). However what we are talking about is the motorsport equvilent of playing 5-a-side football in a work team, which is a long way in terms of skill and fitness required to play for a major international team.

Its the difference between this...

and this

You are comparing quite different ends of the scale and the exact same issues with playing athletic sports that you describe would most certainly be a major factor were you to try and race at even a national level or above. The workout required for a BTCC car for example over the duration of a race would most certainly get your heartrate and breathing to a level that asthma and a lack of stamina (cardio fitness) would be more than enough to make you uncompetitive. That's without even looking at the skill side of it. Now move this up to the demands of F1/LMS/NASCAR and things get far, far more demanding on both the body and mind.

Rich S is stating that even at the highest levels of motorsport the skill requirements and fitness levels required are minimal and could be achieved by anyone in a short period of time.

That's so unrealistic as to be almost delusional, and quite clearly indicates that he has no real idea of the demands placed on a human being when driving a top tier car for even a short period of time, let alone for race distance with other competitors.


Scaff

 

[GEORGE_GR33]

Question: Are all of those people who are amongst the best at what they do,
gifted with some exceptional talent that no one else have?

My answer: Definitely not.They just had an incredible desire to be the best at what they do, and the ability to endure the gret pain and efforts required to reach that level.
But don't take my answer for a fact.You can find your answers by studying the biographies of all those who succeed in their lifes, and you can start with this great reading : www.apa.org/ed/schools/gifted/be-genius.pdf

 

[hampus_dh]

You aren't born with it, there is no natural instinct to drive. There is however natural instinct to run, jump, crawl, climb, etc.

There is no natural instict to run, jump, crawl, climb etc.

If you don´t teach a baby to walk etc he won´t just get up one day and start walking around. Much less start running crawling climbing.

The body and brain is made for one thing really (apart from the obvious reproduction etc) and that is walking.
You brain is built for walking speed (around 8km/h)

Imagine going to one of the busiest places on earth where there are lots of people.
Everyone walks yet nobody walks right into each other. That´s because the brain has time to figure out what to do.

Then imagine if all of these people would start running instead. How many of the people do you think would not be hit by anything or anyone?

 

[Rich S]

How is moving your eyes, arms, fingers, head, legs, brain and feet not considered Natural instinct? All the components you need to "drive."

Again, but to be of the level that most, I won't say all because some are literally just mad rich, professional race car drivers are, you have to be above the norm. Which i'd be willing to bet, because they are the ones driving race cars and you are not. That they are better than the norm.

I actually think he has a great point. (imo)

I've seen some 'average' cyclists improve to the point that their pros. If you want something bad enough, believe me you'll at least get fairly close.

Of course you'll take that as meaningless conjecture. (in my opinion.)

I guess the argument needs to be, "Is somebody's ability to improve considered talent, or just where they start out at?"

 

[Saidur_Ali]

The funny thing is I reckon the OP in a race on GT5 would struggle to come within 0.5 seconds of a top F1 driver who is given about 20 laps of practice beforehand. I think this applies to most of us who have posted in here.

About natural talent and stuff. I think it is a lot about nature and also the environment you grow up. Something like eidetic memory cannot be learnt for example. Regards to motorsport, an individual has to be able to have nerves of steel by not being scared by someone chasing behind in a race car (For example being in Hamilton's situation in Korea with Webber being right behind him). Also good spatial awareness is required and have no fear out on the track as well as good concept of how to drive fast and consistently. Most of this can be learnt to a level but to take it to the next level like in any sport, it takes someone more gifted to excel.

If it is easy as the OP suggests, then why are so many people in amateur racing, when in a few laps and few weeks training, you can be very close to an F1 driver. I mean most of us probably spent at least a month playing GT5, why waste time on a game when we can race in F1 as surely we will be noticed as anyone can get to the level of a top F1 driver in a month right?

 

[Rich S]

I dont think a fighter pilot can really scoff because they take vertical g's and not a lot of lateral g's.

Perpendicular Gs to the spine are not as hard when driving/flying simply because blood is not being pumped out or into the brain.

Now this is a cool dude:

http://www.ejectionsite.com/stapp.htm

The funny thing is I reckon the OP in a race on GT5 would struggle to come within 0.5 seconds of a top F1 driver who is given about 20 laps of practice beforehand. I think this applies to most of us who have posted in here.

Not to be too cocky but I think your very very wrong (in my opinion.) Although GT5 is vastly different from real F1 cars.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Perpendicular Gs to the spine are not as hard when driving/flying simply because blood is not being pumped out or into the brain.

Now this is a cool dude:

http://www.ejectionsite.com/stapp.htm

Not to be too cocky but I think your very very wrong (in my opinion.)

I don't think I'm anywhere near as fast as an F1 driver in a sim and you said you finished below me in a GT time trial event.

 

[Rich S]

I don't think I'm anywhere near as fast as an F1 driver in a sim and you said you finished below me in a GT time trial event.

If your faster than me I believe your far faster than an F1 driver in GT5. (imo).

GT5 TTs are a bad way of determining potential though because you can simply rinse and repeat while crashing many times. In a real car you cant crash, ever!! Unless you very rich.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

If your faster than me I believe your far faster than an F1 driver in GT5. (imo).

I don't think so. I can't beat them in Ferrari Virtual Academy and that is similar to GT5 to an extent.

 

[Rich S]

I don't think so. I can't beat them in Ferrari Virtual Academy and that is similar to GT5 to an extent.

I dont have Ferrari Virtual Academy, but I suspect I would beat them. It would be cool if you gave your username and provided a link to the times.

In an interview I watched of Adrian Sutil he talks of racing online during the winter and hints of loosing to online gamers.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

I actually think he has a great point. (imo)

I've seen some 'average' cyclists improve to the point that their pros. If you want something bad enough, believe me you'll at least get fairly close.

Of course you'll take that as meaningless conjecture. (in my opinion.)

I guess the argument needs to be, "Is somebody's ability to improve considered talent, or just where they start out at?"

How does he even have anything close to a great point? I proved him wrong almost instantly with the same logic he was using.

Of course somebody can practice a lot at something and get good. But 9 times out of 10 somebody who doesn't have some natural given talent won't get even close to being pro.

And quit effing saying "in my opinion." it's becoming really repetitive and annoying. And when more than half of the posts in this thread have been people proving your "in my opinion"'s wrong with FACTS, it just makes you look even more like the jealous little **** that you are. And don't you dare say "oh i'm not jealous" what sprung you to create the thread in the first place? Ah yes, Jealousy.

I'd really love to have you fly over to Japan, and talk to everyone that I work with on the track about what you have been saying. And we all just fall over laughing at how illegitimate all of your arguments are.

/Rant

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I dont have Ferrari Virtual Academy, but I suspect I would beat them. It would be cool if you gave your username and provided a link to the times.

Rankings can be found on here: www.ferrarivirtualacademy.com/

The website is down at the moment. My username on this site is my name.

I think you will be surprised how fast they are. Probably requires similar effort to get into say the top 10-20 in a seasonal event in GT5 to stand a chance of beating them.

Here is the GTP thread on FVA:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=130258&page=6

 

[Small_Fryz]

I dont have Ferrari Virtual Academy, but I suspect I would beat them. It would be cool if you gave your username and provided a link to the times.

I would be willing to race you real time, online in GT5.

Being fast enough to race with only 5 - 10 laps practise in a combo is much different to spending 10 - 20 - 30+ hours racing a TT.

Come race in real time on the track and get an idea what its like.

add Small_Fryz to your psn.