How "Special" are PRO race Drivers?

[Saidur_Ali]

I would be willing to race you real time, online in GT5.

add Small_Fryz to your psn.

That will be a good test for him. He will have to be on your pace to stand a chance of beating an F1 driver in the virtual world I would say.

 

[Rich S]

And quit effing saying "in my opinion." it's becoming really repetitive and annoying. And when more than half of the posts in this thread have been people proving you "in my opinion"'s wrong with FACTS, it just makes you look even more like the jealous little **** that you are. And don't you dare say "oh i'm not jealous" what sprung you to create the thread in the first place? Ah yes, Jealousy.



/Rant

With every view I express I have to use "my opinion" otherwise I may soon be banned.

If I'm wrong why are you so upset sir? If I'm so far "off" why are you taking this thread so hard....and so seriously. Your as angry as somebody who's just been told they've gotten a Driving while under the influence!! (IMO).

I'm not threatening in any way (that I know of).

 

[Kamuifanboy]

With every view I express I have to use "my opinion" otherwise I may soon be banned.

If I'm wrong why are you so upset sir? If I'm so far "off" why are you taking this thread so hard....and so seriously. Your as angry as somebody who's just been told they've gotten a Driving while under the influence!! (IMO).

I'm not threatening in any way (that I know of).

I give up.

 

[Rich S]

I would be willing to race you real time, online in GT5.

Being fast enough to race with only 5 - 10 laps practise in a combo is much different to spending 10 - 20 - 30+ hours racing a TT.

Come race in real time on the track and get an idea what its like.

add Small_Fryz to your psn.

Fryz, I'll race you using the F1 cars. I'll add you. Although were in slightly diff time zones.

 

[hampus_dh]

Been a few times the last couple of days contemplating if i should take a ban for a week just to express what i really think about Rich and his "opinions"..

 

[Kamuifanboy]

Been a few times the last couple of days contemplating if i should take a ban for a week just to express what i really think about Rich and his "opinions"..

I think if we talk to some mods about the subject, and get multiple people saying it would be totally appropriate. (Which i'm fairly certain we could). I'd absolutely love to have you do so.

 

[Rich S]

Been a few times the last couple of days contemplating if i should take a ban for a week just to express what i really think about Rich and his "opinions"..

Hampus, when I dont believe somebody I dont get angry with them. If you dont believe what I'm saying whats the big deal?

I'm not a huge motorsports fan (or sports fan). But that doesnt make me a bad person.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

Hampus, when I dont believe somebody I dont get angry with them. If you dont believe what I'm saying whats the big deal?

I'm not a huge motorsports fan (or sports fan). But that doesnt make me a bad person.

Then why make such a controversial thread in the first place...

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I think if we talk to some mods about the subject, and get multiple people saying it would be totally appropriate. (Which i'm fairly certain we could). I'd absolutely love to have you do so.

It won't be appropriate and really only the word needed to be used is delusional in my opinion. No need to get nasty.

 

[Rich S]

Then why make such a controversial thread in the first place...

I didnt intend for it to be controversial.....you guys really made it out to be so.

Hey do you think I want 12 people constantly bagging on me for my opinion on race car drivers!!? Of course not. Hampus has gone as far to take personal issue with it.

 

[Tuck !]

Personally I think that when somebody starts spouting nonsense and display a certain level of ignorance it does get annoying.

Surely it will bE a controversial topic when you make baseless claims as to matching webber in 30 laps or training 5 weeks to be able to withstand an f1 race!

 

[Kamuifanboy]

I didnt intend for it to be controversial.....you guys really made it out to be so.

Hey do you think I want 12 people constantly bagging on me for my opinion on race car drivers!!? Of course not. Hampus has gone as far to take personal issue with it.

How can you possibly expect to make a thread questioning something, and not have it be controversial...

 

[Rich S]

How can you possibly expect to make a thread questioning something, and not have it be controversial...

Its gone beyond controversial discussion. The main body of argument has gone into attacking me personally & quoting me out of context.

Although I will admit the moderators like scaff have provided some good truthful facts & arguments. But the majority of it is going off about how I'm just jelous, I suck at racing, "spend $400 on i racing and race me and get whooped", "test him to see if he can drive", etc, etc.

An old woman could make the argument that racing drivers are over appreciated compared to say tow truck drivers, in my opinion it doesnt make the point any less valid.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Its gone beyond controversial discussion. The main body of argument has gone into attacking me personally & quoting me out of context.

Although I will admit the moderators like scaff have provided some good truthful facts & arguments. But the majority of it is going off about how I'm just jelous, I suck at racing, "spend $400 on i racing and race me and get whooped", "test him to see if he can drive", etc, etc.

An old woman could make the argument that racing drivers are over appreciated compared to say tow truck drivers, in my opinion it doesnt make the point any less valid.

No one said to spend $400 on iRacing but your point is in 30 laps you could get to a similar pace of an F1 driver. Small_Fryz has offered to see if you are as fast as him and that is on GT5. Surely you can get within 0.5 seconds of a fellow GTP member in a game you probably think you are good at.

I could make an opinion that I've watched episodes of Superman before and I could do what he can do easily if I wanted to in a few weeks but people will think I've gone looney. Your argument in my opinion is only slightly more credible than that.

 

[Rich S]

No one said to spend $400 on iRacing but your point is in 30 laps you could get to a similar pace of an F1 driver. Small_Fryz has offered to see if you are as fast as him and that is on GT5. Surely you can get within 0.5 seconds of a fellow GTP member in a game you probably think you are good at.

I could make an opinion that I've watched episodes of Superman before and I could do what he can do easily if I wanted to in a few weeks but people will think I've gone looney. Your argument in my opinion is only slightly more credible than that.

My argument isnt that I'm as fast as Mark Webber. Thats a completely out of context quote, FROM ANOTHER THREAD. The purpose of this thread was far different. (read the OP). You guys are clinging to it it.

 

[hampus_dh]

Hampus, when I dont believe somebody I dont get angry with them. If you dont believe what I'm saying whats the big deal?

I'm not a huge motorsports fan (or sports fan). But that doesnt make me a bad person.

The problem is you deny FACTS. Those are not F1 drivers "opinions" it´s cold hard FACTS.

But you continue to say "well it´s my opinion, i have to say that because i will get banned otherwise" - do you have any idea why you would get banned if you did not say that?

It´s like you say to us that the earth is flat. We show you multiple videos, pictures, testimonies and facts that the earth is infact round.

But you still say "No (imo) the earth is flat.

Have you even read the long post i made about Kovalainen´s training that him and his personal trainer discussed? I doubt that, i think you read the first sentence only.

Its gone beyond controversial discussion. The main body of argument has gone into attacking me personally & quoting me out of context.

Oh ffs. STFU. YOU ARE THE ONE ATTACKING PEOPLE CALLING US IGNORANT OR NARROW-MINDED.

"Check yourself before you wreck yourself" seems like a fitting sentence for you.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

My argument isnt that I'm as fast as Mark Webber. Thats a completely out of context quote, FROM ANOTHER THREAD. The purpose of this thread was far different. (read the OP). You guys are clinging to it it.

Didn't you say something in this thread about building your neck strength to Vettel's level in like less than a month in this thread. It requires special equipment and also driving F1 cars really to build it up to his level. You probably said other stuff along the lines of not really needing any talent to be a top driver and any layman can get to an F1 drivers level or something similar in this thread if they got the chance to.

 

[Rich S]

Have you even read the long post i made about Kovalainen´s training that him and his personal trainer discussed? I doubt that, i think you read the first sentence only.




Oh ffs. STFU. YOU ARE THE ONE ATTACKING PEOPLE CALLING US IGNORANT OR NARROW-MINDED.

"Check yourself before you wreck yourself" seems like a fitting sentence for you.

That was a good post Hampus, I especially liked the light pushing exercise where they see how many times they can hit a button in 1 minute. Kovalainen hit it 121 times, his fighter pilot friend 101. Pretty close for two guys (one who is a celebrity (once had a salary of 3.5 million, another whom is a a nobody.)

"life is pain" as they say.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

that was a good post hampus, i especially liked the light pushing exercise where they see how many times they can hit a button in 1 minute. Kovalainen hit it 121 times, his fighter pilot friend 101. Pretty close for two guys (one who is a celebrity (once had a salary of 3.5 million, another whom is a a nobody.)

"life is pain" as they say.

it reads!

 

[hampus_dh]

That was a good post Hampus, I especially liked the light pushing exercise where they see how many times they can hit a button in 1 minute. Kovalainen hit it 121 times, his fighter pilot friend 101. Pretty close for two guys (one who is a celebrity (once had a salary of 3.5 million, another whom is a a nobody.)

"life is pain" as they say.

Yep i give up. You clearly have issues far greater then anything in this conversation.

Keep digging!

 

[Kamuifanboy]

Yep i give up. You clearly have issues far greater then anything in this conversation.

Keep digging!

I"m surprised he hasn't reached here yet.

 

[Rich S]

Yet more ad hominems, it violates the AUP and shows just how fixed this was from the beginning....

 

[nitrorocks]

With every view I express I have to use "my opinion" otherwise I may soon be banned.

If I'm wrong why are you so upset sir? If I'm so far "off" why are you taking this thread so hard....and so seriously. Your as angry as somebody who's just been told they've gotten a Driving while under the influence!! (IMO).

I'm not threatening in any way (that I know of).

He's upset because you have no idea what being a racing driver is like. It's physically challenging. Not to mention mentally, and emotionally. Go pay for a rental track day in a 125cc Shifter kart. I bet you can't take the G Loads and the Fatigue that those give you. Oh never ind. You probably will pop the clutch.

 

[Joey D]

I get the feeling that some of you are assuming I think it takes no effort to be a racecar driver. That's not true in the slightest, I have said it takes skill and a ton of hard work to get to be a good driver. I know that it isn't just simply sitting down for a couple hours and moving the wheel.

How is moving your eyes, arms, fingers, head, legs, brain and feet not considered Natural instinct? All the components you need to "drive."

While you do need those things to drive, you also need them for every other activity in daily life. Every able minded and bodied person can do all of that, so it's nothing really special.

Wow.. just wow..

I can say exactly the same thing about working hard to be good at a sport. I can learn techniques, train, eat right and I would become fairly good. But could I make international level? that's another story.

I will say it again.... Its one thing to be "fast" its another to be one of the best in the world. No amount of learning, reading or practise will close the gap to someone with that natural talent.

But considering most people don't try to ever drive fast and never understand the difficulty behind it, its understandable people think as they do.

Its clear to me that you have never attempted to be the best in the world at anything to do with Driving, nor have you compared yourself to someone who is a professional.

Right, you do have to work hard to be good at a sport, I don't dispute that. But I'm not talking about organized sports here, I'm talking about athleticism. You can be athletic without playing sports. I've seen people run just for the hell of it and be good at it. To me that's athleticism.

And yes, I have never attempted to be the best in the world with driving. I never claimed to be. I don't have the money, time or knowledge to be competitive on a world stage. If I did have all three though, I'm sure if I was at it for long enough I would get to that point. It may take 10 years of non-stop work but I could do it.

That argument is sort of lame too, just because I've never attempted to race at an international level, I don't understand what it's like? Then probably 99.99% of the people on GTP are in the same boat, there's what that guy that won the GT contest thing who races now? I'm sure there's a handful of others that could be just due to the sheer number of members the statistics play to that favour.

Sure you get quite a few people thinking they'll be the next hot shot racer because they can drive a car in a video game, but it's just a game. Racing, or even driving for that matter, is so much more intense in real life then any game can ever portray.....and cue the GT defense in 5...4...3...2...1

I'm not knocking racecar drivers at all, I understand that it takes skill but I think those skills are learned. If it was purely down to athleticism the drivers like Paul Newman or Dick Trickle wouldn't have been racing into their 60's and 70's. I mean how many pro sports player are that old? You're really hard pressed to find many over 40.

 

[Rich S]

He's upset because you have no idea what being a racing driver is like. It's physically challenging. Not to mention mentally, and emotionally. Go pay for a rental track day in a 125cc Shifter kart. I bet you can't take the G Loads and the Fatigue that those give you. Oh never ind. You probably will pop the clutch.

I haven't disagreed that racing is tough....Of course it is. But I've disagreed that car racing goes above & beyond the constrains of many other jobs.

Hampus takes it personally like I'm insulting his mother. He's an i racing video game player. What does he have to do with professional motor racing drivers? Or athletes for that matter.....no video game players are not athletes.

I'm also not making motor racers out to be lazy criminals who sit around in an 8*10 foot cell. From the reaction I get here I would expect thats what I'm saying.

I'm going to leave it at that because I cant sit on this thread all day.

 

[nitrorocks]

I get the feeling that some of you are assuming I think it takes no effort to be a racecar driver. That's not true in the slightest, I have said it takes skill and a ton of hard work to get to be a good driver. I know that it isn't just simply sitting down for a couple hours and moving the wheel.

While you do need those things to drive, you also need them for every other activity in daily life. Every able minded and bodied person can do all of that, so it's nothing really special.

Right, you do have to work hard to be good at a sport, I don't dispute that. But I'm not talking about organized sports here, I'm talking about athleticism. You can be athletic without playing sports. I've seen people run just for the hell of it and be good at it. To me that's athleticism.

And yes, I have never attempted to be the best in the world with driving. I never claimed to be. I don't have the money, time or knowledge to be competitive on a world stage. If I did have all three though, I'm sure if I was at it for long enough I would get to that point. It may take 10 years of non-stop work but I could do it.

That argument is sort of lame too, just because I've never attempted to race at an international level, I don't understand what it's like? Then probably 99.99% of the people on GTP are in the same boat, there's what that guy that won the GT contest thing who races now? I'm sure there's a handful of others that could be just due to the sheer number of members the statistics play to that favour.

Sure you get quite a few people thinking they'll be the next hot shot racer because they can drive a car in a video game, but it's just a game. Racing, or even driving for that matter, is so much more intense in real life then any game can ever portray.....and cue the GT defense in 5...4...3...2...1

I'm not knocking racecar drivers at all, I understand that it takes skill but I think those skills are learned. If it was purely down to athleticism the drivers like Paul Newman or Dick Trickle wouldn't have been racing into their 60's and 70's. I mean how many pro sports player are that old? You're really hard pressed to find many over 40.

I agree but I also think it takes a little bit of both because everyone can drive like you said, but some are born with that natural talent. Everyone will run on the track in a track day for example, but one driver will be the fastest because he has that talent, and the drive to do it.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

While you do need those things to drive, you also need them for every other activity in daily life. Every able minded and bodied person can do all of that, so it's nothing really special.

So using your logic, everything in life that we do, Is just something we learn. Is that not EVERYTHING then? Using your logic, that applies to every professional athlete, or really any body who has specialized and un-specialized jobs. Great, so guys, lets all go practice at becoming Sebastien Vettel. And beat him. You've had it mate.

 

[Tuck !]

I get the feeling that some of you are assuming I think it takes no effort to be a racecar driver. That's not true in the slightest, I have said it takes skill and a ton of hard work to get to be a good driver. I know that it isn't just simply sitting down for a couple hours and moving the wheel.



While you do need those things to drive, you also need them for every other activity in daily life. Every able minded and bodied person can do all of that, so it's nothing really special.



Right, you do have to work hard to be good at a sport, I don't dispute that. But I'm not talking about organized sports here, I'm talking about athleticism. You can be athletic without playing sports. I've seen people run just for the hell of it and be good at it. To me that's athleticism.

And yes, I have never attempted to be the best in the world with driving. I never claimed to be. I don't have the money, time or knowledge to be competitive on a world stage. If I did have all three though, I'm sure if I was at it for long enough I would get to that point. It may take 10 years of non-stop work but I could do it.

That argument is sort of lame too, just because I've never attempted to race at an international level, I don't understand what it's like? Then probably 99.99% of the people on GTP are in the same boat, there's what that guy that won the GT contest thing who races now? I'm sure there's a handful of others that could be just due to the sheer number of members the statistics play to that favour.

Sure you get quite a few people thinking they'll be the next hot shot racer because they can drive a car in a video game, but it's just a game. Racing, or even driving for that matter, is so much more intense in real life then any game can ever portray.....and cue the GT defense in 5...4...3...2...1

I'm not knocking racecar drivers at all, I understand that it takes skill but I think those skills are learned. If it was purely down to athleticism the drivers like Paul Newman or Dick Trickle wouldn't have been racing into their 60's and 70's. I mean how many pro sports player are that old? You're really hard pressed to find many over 40.

In this case everything is either learnt or practiced. I don't expect anyone to pop out to just be the fastest 100m sprinter or best endurance runner. They need the correct techniques and proper training to become competitive. Those who have talents may start better than average an improve faster and have a higher potential that they may reach.

Same goes to racing. Some kids are already above average when they start. Foe example Hamilton, button and vetted have been winning races since young. And then the maximum potential matters too, some racers have the capabilities to outperform their cars and these normally land in formula 1 while some just are stuck in gp2 unable to improve further.

That is why I think the f1 drivers are special enough. They are afterall competing in the pinnacle of motorsports.

 

[hampus_dh]

I haven't disagreed that racing is tough....Of course it is. But I've disagreed that car racing goes above & beyond the constrains of many other jobs.

Hampus takes it personally like I'm insulting his mother. He's an i racing video game player. What does he have to do with professional motor racing drivers? Or athletes for that matter.....no video game players are not athletes.

I'm also not making motor racers out to be lazy criminals who sit around in an 8*10 foot cell. From the reaction I get here I would expect thats what I'm saying.

I'm going to leave it at that because I cant sit on this thread all day.

Now you are just straight up lying...

Insulting my mother? No the only person you are insulting is yourself.

Yes i play iRacing but i´m not so ignorant to think i would be anywhere near Webber in an F1 car with 30 laps of practice.

Nor am i so ignorant to think that i can get neck muscles comparable to Sebastian Vettel´s in a matter of 5 weeks.

You have no idea what you are talking about, you close your eyes when faced with facts and you claim your opinions as facts.

and like you said yourself, the only thing keeping you from getting banned is by saying it´s your opinion.

 

[Joey D]

So using your logic, everything in life that we do, Is just something we learn. Is that not EVERYTHING then? Using your logic, that applies to every professional athlete, or really any body who has specialized and un-specialized jobs. Great, so guys, lets all go practice at becoming Sebastien Vettel. And beat him. You've had it mate.

I don't understand you conclusion, but yes a majority of the things we know are learned, I don't dispute that. Being able to move your body and think are two things we a born with to just do. There is no learning how to think or how to move.

And yes with enough practice and time you probably could beat a leading driver right now, but in the time it would take you to reach that level someone else would probably surpass your target.

In this case everything is either learnt or practiced. I don't expect anyone to pop out to just be the fastest 100m sprinter or best endurance runner. They need the correct techniques and proper training to become competitive. Those who have talents may start better than average an improve faster and have a higher potential that they may reach.

Athletic ability has been shown to be affected by your genes though, so yes someone could be born with the natural ability to run faster then someone else. I don't believe there is a natural ability to drive better though, it's not something we have developed through millions of years of evolution.

And I'll admit I was off with my comments earlier, perhaps I didn't state it correctly or I was speaking without a clear thought. But yes, it takes athletic ability to drive a racecar, but the main skill of actually driving the car fast and well is something you need to learn over time. Running, jumping, climbing, etc are all something you can be naturally good at through your genetic make up.

That is why I think the f1 drivers are special enough. They are afterall competing in the pinnacle of motorsports.

I don't dispute that racing drivers aren't "special", actually that's probably the wrong word to use but whatever. They posses a skill that the average person doesn't.