Huge time difference, gr4 Kyoto..?

[Shottah072]

Read the thread first. Then ask questions. It has been proven.

I have read it. Maybe i missed it but havent seen it, could you point it out for me ?

Not saying your lying or it isnt happening, i just seek confirmation that this seems to be the case.

 

[dr_slump]

Can u actually proof this is happening ?

There's no need, just try it yourself, it's not that difficult.

 

[Shottah072]

I will.

But you cant claim people are cheating and then not post the proof of it.

 

[TCG]

from my practises with the countersteering aid switched on and off I found it does help but it’s not a matter of seconds. I was on average .3-.4 faster with it on. But I don’t believe it to be the giant cheat implied by some in this thread. It doesn’t magically turn you into an amazing driver. It will give you a few 0.1’s that’s about it.

 

[Foxis]

I have read it. Maybe i missed it but havent seen it, could you point it out for me ?

No with a link as I won't do your work for you. But there are several posts about it, including one where a member here did try it himself and shave off 1 second on an already quick lap.

 

[Foxis]

from my practises with the countersteering aid switched on and off I found it does help but it’s not a matter of seconds. I was on average .3-.4 faster with it on. But I don’t believe it to be the giant cheat implied by some in this thread. It doesn’t magically turn you into an amazing driver. It will give you a few 0.1’s that’s about it.

I have certainly not implied it to be a giant cheat or turning people into amazing drivers. I asked for why the time spread is quite big among relatively talented drivers. The explanation offered was that the aids *in combination with* extreme/unstable setups gave a relatively big speed advantage. Which has then been confirmed by several people. So it *seems* to be true.

 

[TCG]

I have certainly not implied it to be a giant cheat or turning people into amazing drivers. I asked for why the time spread is quite big among relatively talented drivers. The explanation offered was that the aids *in combination with* extreme/unstable setups gave a relatively big speed advantage. Which has then been confirmed by several people. So it *seems* to be true.

Fair enough, I guess you could always jump in and try it yourself like I did and see what result you come up with.

 

[Shottah072]

No with a link as I won't do your work for you. But there are several posts about it, including one where a member here did try it himself and shave off 1 second on an already quick lap.

You want this problem figured out and solved but you dont want to do any work for it ?

Again, I am not attacking you. I just ask for proof of this problem. One or a couple users saying something is not proof. Maybe you can make some footage of the countersteer assist driving technique you speak about ?

 

[dr_slump]

But you cant claim people are cheating and then not post the proof of it.

I never called it cheating.
If anything, I'm blaming Polyphony for allowing such driving aids in daily races.

 

[Shottah072]

I never called it cheating.
If anything, I'm blaming Polyphony for allowing such driving aids in daily races.

But Foxis, who i responded to did call it cheating and exploiting the system.

 

[Flaren89]

I never called it cheating.
If anything, I'm blaming Polyphony for allowing such driving aids in daily races.

What is important is to not allow them to use on official championship... Which I doubt PD is so smart to do, considering how bad they released this game with all of the last moment bugs, missing non-digital-copy additional content, etc...
Eventually, a separating system for the aid use on matchmaking will come later.

 

[Wildfire]

I want to know more about what people mean when they say using "extreme setups" and then using countersteer on to make those setups feasible.

Are we talking about super low downforce and low drag setups? like the type of thing you'd expect an F1 team to run at Monza, except that in this instance they'd be able to press a button which enables them not to lose any grip in the corners?

 

[dr_slump]

But Foxis, who i responded to did call it cheating and exploiting the system.

You edited your comment, at first it quoted me directly.

 

[Foxis]

You want this problem figured out and solved but you dont want to do any work for it ?

Again, I am not attacking you. I just ask for proof of this problem. One or a couple users saying something is not proof. Maybe you can make some footage of the countersteer assist driving technique you speak about ?

As far as I am concerned it is figured out. I have seen and read enough to be convinced. I will not help you to form your own opinion, that work is yours to perform.

This is not a scientific debate. Just because I state my opinion does not automatically result in me having to prove it. And most importantly: The claim that counter steer is being abused is not originally mine. Again, please read the thread.

 

[Foxis]

I want to know more about what people mean when they say using "extreme setups" and then using countersteer on to make those setups feasible.

Are we talking about super low downforce and low drag setups? like the type of thing you'd expect an F1 team to run at Monza, except that in this instance they'd be able to press a button which enables them not to lose any grip in the corners?

As far as I understood from numerous posts (here and elsewhere), that is the suspicion that has been more or less confirmed through tests. It is not a massive time difference, but enough to allow people to be competitive with setups that they likely are not skilled enough to use.

 

[Wildfire]

As far as I understood from numerous posts (here and elsewhere), that is the suspicion that has been more or less confirmed through tests. It is not a massive time difference, but enough to allow people to be competitive with setups that they likely are not skilled enough to use.

I'm gonna try that tonight and see what happens.

On Kyoto GR.4 at the moment with no TC , weak ABS and no other assists I'm hitting 1:43.0 and I know there's a 1:42.6 or.7 in there if I can just get the lap together... The problem is I have to be on the absolute edge to get it together, so it's hard to be consistently under 1:43.5 tbh.

But Ill try mess around with these crazy setups and assists tonight, presumably it's only countersteer that's used? or is TC turned on to 1?

 

[Shottah072]

You edited your comment, at first it quoted me directly.

Yes but you quoted me asking Foxis something.

As far as I am concerned it is figured out. I have seen and read enough to be convinced. I will not help you to form your own opinion, that work is yours to perform.

This is not a scientific debate. Just because I state my opinion does not automatically result in me having to prove it. And most importantly: The claim that counter steer is being abused is not originally mine. Again, please read the thread.

True it was not you who originally claimed it.

However i am not as easy convinced. I havent seen any weird driving techniques on track that would point to cheating or exploiting. And please not take this offensive, but when your 6 seconds off pace, how can you really judge if others are just faster or cheating ? Your so far off you will be better off focusing on you own technique then looking if others maybe using cheating techniques.

 

[Herrybo79]

Found this....

 

[Finflash]

I don't think you can be faster with loose setup versus good balanced setup, countersteer just help to manage it. In the end it's slower in my opinion.

I changed my setup with GTR when testing countersteer a bit and did improve my time. Ideal lap was 1:41.9. Then tried without countersteering and I managed to get as good sector times but making the whole lap is just harder. I don't how others have tested it but this is my impression.

 

[Foxis]

And please not take this offensive, but when your 6 seconds off pace, how can you really judge if others are just faster or cheating ? Your so far off you will be better off focusing on you own technique then looking if others maybe using cheating techniques.

Don't worry, I am not easily offended.
I know I am way off pace, and started this thread as I can definitely see where I can find a 2-3 seconds on the lap. But not 6+.
As someone suggested aids being used with extreme setups I became concerned that this would trickle down through all classes.

That's where I come from. I have no problem being slower than others (I am certainly no alien). I just want to be beaten fairly.

 

[Shottah072]

Found this....

Im pretty sure i raced u couple of times yesterday ? Are u German ?

Don't worry, I am not easily offended.
I know I am way off pace, and started this thread as I can definitely see where I can find a 2-3 seconds on the lap. But not 6+.
As someone suggested aids being used with extreme setups I became concerned that this would trickle down through all classes.

That's where I come from. I have no problem being slower than others (I am certainly no alien). I just want to be beaten fairly.

Ok i get that i feel the same. Thats why i asked for some kind of legit proof. Untill we find any i am not just gonna asume they are cheating the aids system because they are faster, more likely they are just faster.

I've only run Kyoto for 1 night but can run high 42's and low 43's pretty consistent. PB is 42.7 but there is definetly another half a second to find. This would put me 1-2 seconds of the the top times wich is very consistent with my pace across multiple games and platforms. So for me there is no clear indication people are doing stuff to go abnormaly fast. There are always gonna be aliens driving insanely fast, dont focus on the top times to much is my advice. When u gain those 2-3 seconds that is doable for us normal folks you will be running 43's wich is very respectable pace.

 

[Foxis]

Has anyone here set a <45 time with a RWD car? If so, did you tune it?

I selected Ferrari for the constructors championship, so I run those in the "Dailies" as well. I think my lap times are hurting partly due to not having the perfect lines down, but also due to having quite a bit of downforce to help through the high-speed curves.

 

[PJTierney]

I had a few goes during lunch in the Cayman (C/B), can't get below 1:45.9.

I could switch to the GT-R but I'd like to get this car hooked up before the Manufacturers Championship begins.

 

[Shottah072]

Im pretty sure i raced u couple of

Has anyone here set a <45 time with a RWD car? If so, did you tune it?

I selected Ferrari for the constructors championship, so I run those in the "Dailies" as well. I think my lap times are hurting partly due to not having the perfect lines down, but also due to having quite a bit of downforce to help through the high-speed curves.

I found the 458 prone to understeer in medium to high speed corners on stock setup. Wich is wat u really cant have on this track with allot of those corners.

Have you checked this page ? He posts some good setups on this forum.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/minkihl-setups.363843/

 

[Wildfire]

Im pretty sure i raced u couple of times yesterday ? Are u German ?

Ok i get that i feel the same. Thats why i asked for some kind of legit proof. Untill we find any i am not just gonna asume they are cheating the aids system because they are faster, more likely they are just faster.

I've only run Kyoto for 1 night but can run high 42's and low 43's pretty consistent. PB is 42.7 but there is definetly another half a second to find. This would put me 1-2 seconds of the the top times wich is very consistent with my pace across multiple games and platforms. So for me there is no clear indication people are doing stuff to go abnormaly fast. There are always gonna be aliens driving insanely fast, dont focus on the top times to much is my advice. When u gain those 2-3 seconds that is doable for us normal folks you will be running 43's wich is very respectable pace.

1:42s and low 1:43s consistently? not on a controller right? If so then how tf... It always feels difficult to get those times consistently for me because it's sort of, on the ragged edge.

 

[Tandor]

So what does Countersteering Help do exactly? Is it like Steering Help which automatically restricts the amount of steering to optimal even if you give too much steering input from your controller?

 

[Shottah072]

1:42s and low 1:43s consistently? not on a controller right? If so then how tf... It always feels difficult to get those times consistently for me because it's sort of, on the ragged edge.

I use a wheel and have been for a while.

 

[Herrybo79]

yes, German, I don´t know if we played together, but when it was at night, than yes....

 

[Wildfire]

I use a wheel and have been for a while.

that explains that mystery

I feel like we should almost have two forums for this game lol... or people need to have a flair of some sort, identifying what hardware they use, because it makes a big difference as to what their comment means.

If someone says they're hitting 1:42 on a controller, then I'm all ears... But on a wheel I'm uninterested because it's easier to do and requires less of a relative skill level.

Like, that'd be equivalent to hitting 1:40s on a wheel.

 

[Shottah072]

that explains that mystery

I feel like we should almost have two forums for this game lol... or people need to have a flair of some sort, identifying what hardware they use, because it makes a big difference as to what their comment means.

If someone says they're hitting 1:42 on a controller, then I'm all ears... But on a wheel I'm uninterested because it's easier to do and requires less of a relative skill level.

Like, that'd be equivalent to hitting 1:40s on a wheel.

Only 2 people have hit 1:40 so far. And there was someone in that lobby using a controller with the same pace i think he even qualied with a mid to low 42 but he did lack consistency. I get your point though.