If GT5 does incorporate a livery editor...

[HKS racer]

t's not as easy as you make it sound like

Not as difficoult either. I told you, we eventually don't even need a livery editor. Just the templates. PD didn't paint their SuperGT, Nascar car with a livery editor.

Yes, it would, after exporting the skin, not while editing.

1) I don't need 60fps while editing my skin. 2) You are basically saying Turn 10 are genious LOL 3) Templates, in case they can't manage a decent L.E.

With polycount I mean that if the cars aren't modeled clean, you could get issues while painting them. With the huge difference in LOD and general polycount between the cars, it could happen that you can paint one car perfectly fine and another one wouldn't work properly. Or the lower LOD level for in-game ruins some of the textures etc.

GT5 premium cars aren't scaled down while you are racing, it's a false myth. They use low anti-alias filter to keep frame rate somehow consistent. In photomode they use higher filters.

Premium liveries only and oh my gosh 1000000 new threads on GTPlanet alone with people crying about how they cannot paint their Standard Cars.

They have to start somewhere, and how many complain threads we have now? Seriously?

Texture resolution could be difficult in an in-engine livery editor, if the resolution is fixed to the car model. Pixelation and other issues could occur after exporting your finished work.

Then, as I said forget about standards. Let's use default HD size 4096x4096 pixels for all the premium cars. Problem solved.

You mean the templates they have to create then first, for 1000+ cars?

200 cars. How did they paint their premium race cars then? Maybe they didn't use Photoshop or .dds format. But is it a real problem seriously? I remember ISI releasing their development tools within rFactor. So the only problem is PD don't want to, not that "it is impossibru". Bacuse it's clearly not.

Also, I seriously doubt GT5 uses a PC standard DDS format for its textures. One of the reasons why you cannot drive any of the cars from GT5 in PC sims, while I can download tons of cars converted from Forza in GTR² and rFactor.

This has nothing to do with the format you choose, GT files are encripted, there are no GT de-coders out there. Instead I know there's a decoder for FM files. Gmotor sims like rFactor GTR2 can be converted straight from 3dsimed, 3dmax and other 3d programs.

Easy does it? You need people to check this stuff

Employ a couple of moderators. They can check Reports 40 hours a week.

you need to develope a system which handles the reports

a SYSTEM? A bloody report button, like you have in the forums. There's no MUMBA JUMBA involved here, seriously.

and you need to implement the report option inside of the game's UI.

OMG? We are talking about Developers. You can't tell me they can't do that. LOL

 

[Toyota GT1]

200 cars. How did they paint their premium race cars then? Maybe they didn't use Photoshop or .dds format. But is it a real problem seriously? I remember ISI releasing their development tools within rFactor. So the only problem is PD don't want to, not that "it is impossibru". Bacuse it's clearly not.

they dont paint there cars.. they are scanned in real life.. not even close to photoshop..

 

[Samus]

More than 7 million copies of GT5 sold, if I recall correctly.

7 million x $60 = $420 000 000.

Take away production costs, retailers cuts, shipping, and whatever else you like, they made a :censored:load of money. And sales continue.

+ 4 million x $40 for prologue = $160 million.

Even if you allow for the fact those figures might not be entirely accurate and all the things you mention it's quite obvious they will have made well over the $80 million cost.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Not as difficoult either. I told you, we eventually don't even need a livery editor. Just the templates. PD didn't paint their SuperGT, Nascar car with a livery editor.

You don't know if their "templates" are compatible with everyone's Photoshop, how they look like and if they didn't map the cars inside of a 3D development program.

1) I don't need 60fps while editing my skin. 2) You are basically saying Turn 10 are genious LOL 3) Templates, in case they can't manage a decent L.E.

1) RAM, memory, not framerate. You can only use 256 mb of videoram in the PS3, 256 mb, while the game is running and you are creating a skin. 2) No, but their engine might be more optimized and the 360 has a lot more v-ram than the PS3. 3) See above.

GT5 premium cars aren't scaled down while you are racing, it's a false myth. They use low anti-alias filter to keep frame rate somehow consistent. In photomode they use higher filters.

You are wrong and it's easy to prove that. While the car models are the same in gameplay, replay and when taking pictures in a replay, the cars used in the menus and in Photo Travel do have a higher LOD. Especially visible on wheel arches and the wheels themself (nuts and bolts are textured instead of 3D etc.). Another detail which makes this clear are the interiors, while not necessarily important for liveries, in Photo Travel and the menus, they are fully modeled, like when using the cockpit view, but when you look at them through the windows in a replay, they aren't even remotely as detailed.

They have to start somewhere, and how many complain threads we have now? Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Then, as I said forget about standards. Let's use default HD size 4096x4096 pixels for all the premium cars. Problem solved.

Pretty sure that's way too huge, when I look at the decals on the NASCAR cars for example, I see a lot of blur and pixelation.

200 cars. How did they paint their premium race cars then? Maybe they didn't use Photoshop or .dds format. But is it a real problem seriously?

Yes, it is.

I remember ISI releasing their development tools within rFactor. So the only problem is PD don't want to, not that "it is impossibru". Bacuse it's clearly not.

Of course they don't want to release their tools, but I doubt they could do it that easily even if they wanted to.

This has nothing to do with the format you choose, GT files are encripted, there are no GT de-coders out there. Instead I know there's a decoder for FM files. Gmotor sims like rFactor GTR2 can be converted straight from 3dsimed, 3dmax and other 3d programs.

They are encripted in a not PC friendly format, I know people tried to convert cars and failed, don't know the exact details why though. And PD used Maya to create the 3D models if I remember correctly.

Employ a couple of moderators. They can check Reports 40 hours a week.

Yeah, right, just employ some of then, they're growing on trees anyway.

a SYSTEM? A bloody report button, like you have in the forums. There's no MUMBA JUMBA involved here, seriously.

A bloody report button like you have in the forums, which uses a software called vBulletin that is not cheap and was developed from people over several years ages ago you mean? Again you are making it sound like there's no work involved. It has to be implemented into the UI, it has to be linked to the servers and you need a fitting software which catches the reports.

Sure, not impossible, but is it worth the work for a title which is already 1 1/2 years old? Nope.

OMG? We are talking about Developers. You can't tell me they can't do that. LOL

See the last sentence above. OMG LOL indeed.

 

[CJSpencer77]

Agree, Spence, what are TAM colours anyway out of interest?

I never really looked into how forza teams use the livery editor. I bet that is a great selling point.

Tech has for sometime become all about community and networking. Clubs Clans, and ability for those groups to have some kind of individuality is pretty important. GT6's focus should be on this for sure - if we do not see an L editor with GT5 that is.

Blue and Black Pappa, at least thats the main element to the site.

Ive always thought that if a company really wants to get a long life out of a game they need to give an outlet to the comunity to be creative, for e.g. If the track editor was more comprehensive and you could upload them on a dedicated site where you could also upload your custom liveries it would have a huge community following and hence extend the life of the game.

 

[300SRT8Fan]

See my avatar for details

You are going to make Han and Chewbacca. What's next, Darth Vader, Lando?

 

[mjm23race]

Blue and Black Pappa, at least thats the main element to the site.

Ive always thought that if a company really wants to get a long life out of a game they need to give an outlet to the comunity to be creative, for e.g. If the track editor was more comprehensive and you could upload them on a dedicated site where you could also upload your custom liveries it would have a huge community following and hence extend the life of the game.

Look how long SCGT and games like that lived because there were whole communities developing "aftermarket" stuff for it.

I thought it would be cool to model or even paint existing cars, helmets, suits and so on and be able to upload them and add them to the game without having to use crappy in game editors.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Blue and Black Pappa, at least thats the main element to the site.

Ive always thought that if a company really wants to get a long life out of a game they need to give an outlet to the comunity to be creative, for e.g. If the track editor was more comprehensive and you could upload them on a dedicated site where you could also upload your custom liveries it would have a huge community following and hence extend the life of the game.

Cool, now I know your colours, I will sort some forums out for you

Agree though, some simple additions would give GT5 a hell of a lot more scope.

Some people have mentioned a PC application , kind of like a Photoshop type software where liveries and the like could be created/edited and then uploaded to GT5, likewise something for a track also could be done. Many PC game makers release dev tools for the community, what is stopping console game makers doing the same?

These are the kind of things devs need to look at if they really want their products to stand out, and offer something unique.

 

[mjm23race]

^^ And as long as the add-ons are made by the community, and not "official" pd creations, and are not sold for profit that should relieve pd of any liability from manufacturers.

 

[JBanton]

I'd just love the ability to put my signature love heart near the rear-quarter panel of my standard road cars and a racing number on the roof and front doors.

Of course I'd love to recreate existing racing teams schemes as well like RalliArt, Subaru WRT, the Green/ yellow DBR9 and maybe some lotus schemes too.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Want a simple and easy way to paint your cars? Here, find paint chips and scroll through thousands of them to find your favorite color! Or just buy another car and find your favorite color!

Want to add aero kits to your ride? Here, add this ONE wing!

Want to add a vinyl to your favorite car? Here, play Midnight Club or Forza.

A livery editor, along with other features, has to be criticized if not in GT6. It's already been FAR too long, but let's see if KY has the nerve to leave if out for the 6th consecutive game.

Skating on thin ice like a champ; the one and only, Kazunori Yamauchi.

 

[King1982]

THIS

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Hold on...

YOU want to be creative in...MY game?​

 

[JBanton]

I've done a lot of complaining for the past day or so about the FR-S, so I'll ease up now... The livery editor would add a fair amount of lifetime to the game, even non-racing games such as "Sleeping Dogs" will include the feature. (Photographic evidence coming soon).

@CorvetteConquer of course not, that'd mean another 5 years of bug fixes

 

[MSTER232]

THIS

I thought that Jeremy Clarkson was actually in that car for a second before realising it was only a paintjob of him.

Hold on...

YOU want to be creative in...MY game?​

, someone post this on the GT5 memes thread quick!

 

[Griffith500]

Except that a livery editor was on GT's "roadmap" long before we got GT5 Prologue, and is something Kaz has explicitly stated he would like to include (but probably won't happen for GT5). Combine that with the customisation already in the game, the course generator (which does have a creative element in terms of the feedback cycle required to iterate a track until it "works"), I'd say Kaz is all about supporting our creativity.

When people disappoint you, give them more time. Sure, it doesn't necessarily work out like that in the world of "return on investment", but that's not (or at least shouldn't be) where we, as gamers, "live".

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Combine that with the customisation already in the game,

The customization is very weak in Gran Turismo 5. Very limited aero parts, a cumbersome paint chip system, extremely small wheel selection (GT4 destroyed GT5 here). No livery editor still.....some standards like the Veyron are stuck with the same wheels. I think most people would echo these thoughts.

the course generator (which does have a creative element in terms of the feedback cycle required to iterate a track until it "works"), I'd say Kaz is all about supporting our creativity.

It's a unique feature to a certain extent, but it's still very narrow. Changing the number of sections between 2 and 7 and adding difficulty is not "creating" your own track....it's more like "watching" a track be born by a computer from which who make tiny, seemingly insignificant choices.

When people disappoint you, give them more time. Sure, it doesn't necessarily work out like that in the world of "return on investment", but that's not (or at least shouldn't be) where we, as gamers, "live".

5 years was quite some time. I understand they had to work on GT PSP, but that's part of the glaring problem; a VERY small staff (seemingly stuck in the late 90's) and a HUGE corporation (Sony) with high demands.

 

[Griffith500]

The customization is very weak in Gran Turismo 5. Very limited aero parts, a cumbersome paint chip system, extremely small wheel selection (GT4 destroyed GT5 here). No livery editor still.....some standards like the Veyron are stuck with the same wheels. I think most people would echo these thoughts.

It's a unique feature to a certain extent, but it's still very narrow. Changing the number of sections between 2 and 7 and adding difficulty is not "creating" your own track....it's more like "watching" a track be born by a computer from which who make tiny, seemingly insignificant choices.

5 years was quite some time. I understand they had to work on GT PSP, but that's part of the glaring problem; a VERY small staff (seemingly stuck in the late 90's) and a HUGE corporation (Sony) with high demands.

But it still has customisation, which allows creativity. PD's staffing and Sony's demands aren't your problems.
Don't argue on a difference in degree when the original "point" was a difference in kind; i.e. this idea that Kaz flatly disallows "creativity" in "his" games.

 

[HKS racer]

Sure, not impossible, but is it worth the work for a title which is already 1 1/2 years old? Nope.

That's just your opinion, half of the forum wants a livery editor in GT5.

TGS 2006, enough said.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

But it still has customisation, which allows creativity. PD's staffing and Sony's demands aren't your problems.
Don't argue on a difference in degree when the original "point" was a difference in kind; i.e. this idea that Kaz flatly disallows "creativity" in "his" games.

Which is exactly why I called it weak in my post. Very weak.

Full-fledged customization is what the community wants (from what I read here and from other forums).

The way I see it, it's not acceptable/enough to be able to pick a wing and a side skirt and think that's desirable customization. The most creative thing in GT5 is painting rims (which wasn't seen in GT4). Everything else is too mindless. It's too limited and it's been constantly poor for too long.

 

[XEPEGTP]

Seeing so many great liveries, albeit in FM, which is a fun game with good content. I cant think of how stunning they would look in GT. It really would make it a more personal experience.

THE PHOTOS of a full field of either of the great DLC TC cars in full liveries!

Ill look at the bright side, im convinced.

 

[XEPEGTP]

dp.

 

[DavidtheGT20]

I agree that there should be livery editor in GT5. Some would say customization is key, I would say the same thing, only to think it's really PD's and Kaz's call on what to do on future updates/DLC. But if they decide to do it, it will make most people happy, as the current customization is REALLY weak... Creativity is my way of showing the way my imagination works.

 

[JBanton]

Even the likes of "Sleeping Dogs" looks like it will have a livery editor, and it's an open-world game whose prime focus is not on vehicles. (although vehicles have evidently been given a lot of attention; Black Box Entertainment are in collaboration)

When games whose prime focus is not on vehicles come about delivering more vehicle customisation than GT5, (where supposedly there is a focus on vehicles) it does make me wonder why PD haven't taken any hints from other developers.

 

[Spagetti69]

I think it's pretty obvious why it's not included.
They never fully completed all premiums.

Never got around to leaderboards.

Didn't have enough time to finish modelling the tracks.

These things, and probably more need attention before the livery editor.
PD adding one now would probably compromise something else.

 

[JrDarknes]

I remeber when gt auto pictures were released ( before gt came out) and I saw the car with stickers icon. I immideiatly thought you could finally customize. Too bad its just racing modifications =(.

 

[Griffith500]

Which is exactly why I called it weak in my post. Very weak.

Full-fledged customization is what the community wants (from what I read here and from other forums).

The way I see it, it's not acceptable/enough to be able to pick a wing and a side skirt and think that's desirable customization. The most creative thing in GT5 is painting rims (which wasn't seen in GT4). Everything else is too mindless. It's too limited and it's been constantly poor for too long.

How is any of that the same as saying Kaz doesn't allow creativity?

 

[CorvetteConquer]

How is any of that the same as saying Kaz doesn't allow creativity?

Do you consider deep customization to be Kazunori/ PD giving us one wing to choose from? Or the ability to remove the wing? On a creativity scale, it's at about a 1/10 and on par with PS One titles. So yes, it's customization, but it's nearly nothing.

I'm sure you've been playing GT for a while and other racing games, too.

Please tell me you see the gigantic room for improvement. That's what I really seek from you (the tiniest idea that you see what most of the forum sees).

Remember, you don't have to defend PD. They don't pay you. You are just a fan.

 

[Icarus25]

Corvette, learn to read. He has not disagreed that customization is lacking, he is pointing out that there is customization which shows Kaz is not averse to allowing people to customize their cars. You keep going on and on that Kaz doesn't want to allow customization yet the small amount that is in the game and the list of intended features pre-release show that is anything but the case. No one is defending anyone, just pointing out that your position is flawed and irrelevant.

 

[Tenacious D]

Exaggerating his case doesn't help it either. Really, there are enough shortcomings in GT5, like the lack of a livery editor, that making things up (one available wing) just makes you sound weaksauce.

I have a post buried in the thread somewhere that has an unfortunate point. That being, that PD has pushed the PS3 so hard with an always-in 3D engine and other things that any kind of liveries, even to the level of the basic one in ModNation Racers, might require horsepower that isn't there. Forza 3 wasn't able to handle even one more car, keeping it to the same 8 car races as always, even though they worked the game engine over. It required quite a bit of effort to produce the FM4 engine.

It may not be possible to add another load to GT5, even a basic livery system, without a lot of reworking of the game engine. I'd love to be wrong, but we may have to wait for GT6 for it, and even the PS4.