Impossible to drive without abs

[Prontas_Probe]

Every now and again I give it a try with abs 0. I always end up locking up and crashing and eventually giving up.
How long does it take to adapt to abs 0?

 

[Bluntified]

Not that long, you need to adjust your brake bias. Use something like 4-3 or 3-2 with standard brakes at first. See how you like it.

You also have to remember not to slam the brakes like you probably did with ABS on. Brake evenly!

 

[Johnnypenso]

Every now and again I give it a try with abs 0. I always end up locking up and crashing and eventually giving up.
How long does it take to adapt to abs 0?

What equipment do you use? What settings? What car/tire combination? Stock or tuned?

I suggest starting with something like a stock BRZ/FRS etc on SH tires with standard brakes and something like 4/2 brake balance or even 3/1. At 3/1 I doubt you will lock the tires in a straight line. Get a feel for it, increase the strength at both ends until you find the right balance for you.

Racing brakes are much stronger than standard brakes and hard to use with no ABS so stick with standard brakes to start with. Racing cars or faster cars take more practice. Start slow and work up 👍👍

You might also be interested in this: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/abs0-friends-wanted.303143/#post-9351679

Or @Ridox2JZGTE 's garage which is all noABS/controller based replicas: RIDOX Replica Garage

 

[f1webberfan]

Every now and again I give it a try with abs 0. I always end up locking up and crashing and eventually giving up.
How long does it take to adapt to abs 0?

Are you using a wheel or a DS3?

 

[HuskyGT]

Brake bias indeed. Forget about racing brakes. With stock brakes I use 5/3 and it works perfectly. This is with Sport Hard tires. With Sport Medium or Soft, you can get away with the stock 5/5 setting.

Wheel or controller, it doesn't matter. I play with DS3 and rarely lock the brakes on my old cars and TVR's, unless I really want to. Feels really nice and it's a lot of fun. Much more forgiving than in GT5. I use the right analog stick for gas an brake though, so I have way more control than with the buttons or the triggers.

But if you're one of those guys who put racing parts on every car, you may want to lower the bias to 0/0, or 1/0 the most. You'll still have lock ups though, but they are controllable.

 

[Dusty1990]

Brake bias indeed. Forget about racing brakes. With stock brakes I use 5/3 and it works perfectly. This is with Sport Hard tires. With Sport Medium or Soft, you can get away with the stock 5/5 setting.

Wheel or controller, it doesn't matter. I play with DS3 and rarely lock the brakes on my old cars and TVR's, unless I really want to. Feels really nice and it's a lot of fun. Much more forgiving than in GT5. I use the right analog stick for gas an brake though, so I have way more control than with the buttons or the triggers.

But if you're one of those guys who put racing parts on every car, you may want to lower the bias to 0/0, or 1/0 the most. You'll still have lock ups though, but they are controllable.

Stock brakes? Doesn't that lengthen the braking distance loads?

I'm using 9/10 BB with racing brakes in the suzuka TT and not getting lock ups (much).

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I feel the racing brakes lock up too early with low brake bias settings, I prefer setting the standard brakes around 6/8, quite a change from the 4/1 I used in GT5.

OP, as has been asked, which brakes are you using and what are your brake bias settings?

 

[HuskyGT]

Stock brakes? Doesn't that lengthen the braking distance loads?

I'm using 9/10 BB with racing brakes in the suzuka TT and not getting lock ups (much).

You're probably right, but I haven't really noticed a huge drop on braking performance vs stock 5/5 or more with ABS on. It depends on the car. I only have like three cars with racing brakes and I did it mostly for the looks, rather than the braking performance. In some cases I even lower the force on purpose to mimic drum brakes, like in the BMW 507 or the Samba Bus.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Stock brakes? Doesn't that lengthen the braking distance loads?

I'm using 9/10 BB with racing brakes in the suzuka TT and not getting lock ups (much).

Nope. Praiano did some testing on this and the braking distances are exactly the same, all that changes is how much pedal travel you need to get to lock. Very long pedal travel with standard brakes, very short with racing brakes. When you alter brake balance you are actually altering pedal travel distance until lock, front and back. So if you have a 6/2 BB for example and floor the pedal you get a 6/2 brake balance. If you only push it halfway however, may already be at 6 on the front because a higher BB means less pedal travel to lock, but the back might only be at 1 since you have to press the brakes almost all the way to max out a rear BB of 2. At half pedal you might actually have 6/1.

Sounds bizarre but if you think of BB not as brake strength but as pedal travel to lock it makes much more sense, higher BB being shorter travel to lock etc.

 

[FussyFez]

Racing brakes can be needed.

My 800bhp R32 gtr on racing hard needs them.

Driving without ABS is all about using the brake bias settings to your advantage.

I also find headphones help alot with tyre squeal feedback.

 

[sporkface69]

Stock brakes? Doesn't that lengthen the braking distance loads?

I'm using 9/10 BB with racing brakes in the suzuka TT and not getting lock ups (much).

No. You can only brake as hard as your tires allow you to without locking up because they're the weak link in everything you do, racing brakes just change the responsiveness of your brake pedal.

 

[Prontas_Probe]

What equipment do you use? What settings? What car/tire combination? Stock or tuned?

I suggest starting with something like a stock BRZ/FRS etc on SH tires with standard brakes and something like 4/2 brake balance or even 3/1. At 3/1 I doubt you will lock the tires in a straight line. Get a feel for it, increase the strength at both ends until you find the right balance for you.

Racing brakes are much stronger than standard brakes and hard to use with no ABS so stick with standard brakes to start with. Racing cars or faster cars take more practice. Start slow and work up 👍👍

You might also be interested in this: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/abs0-friends-wanted.303143/#post-9351679

Or @Ridox2JZGTE 's garage which is all noABS/controller based replicas: RIDOX Replica Garage

I'm using a ds3 but i cycle all the cars i have for every race, all in stock with stock tires, say for starters 2001 golf gti on comfort softs

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm using a ds3 but i cycle all the cars i have for every race, all in stock with stock tires, say for starters 2001 golf gti on comfort softs

That'll work. No ABS with FF's can actually give you and advantage. Try running an even or slightly higher rear BB and you can get the rear to break loose a bit when you get the BB right and it helps to rotate around a corner quicker. Start with maybe 3/3 and work up from there until it feels right for you.

 

[Prontas_Probe]

That'll work. No ABS with FF's can actually give you and advantage. Try running an even or slightly higher rear BB and you can get the rear to break loose a bit when you get the BB right and it helps to rotate around a corner quicker. Start with maybe 3/3 and work up from there until it feels right for you.

Thanks I'll give it a try

 

[f1webberfan]

I'm using a ds3 but i cycle all the cars i have for every race, all in stock with stock tires, say for starters 2001 golf gti on comfort softs

I wasn't online but good people explained to you the basics, as far as I can see.
Give it a try. You will never go back.

 

[srefre]

In addition to the above, I find adjusting the braking sensitivity of the LSD (if fitted) helps a lot with keeping the car stable under braking when using ABS0. You need to play around to find your sweet spot between to much understeer and the car being a twitchy monster when you brake on anything but a perfectly flat straight.

 

[f1webberfan]

In addition to the above, I find adjusting the braking sensitivity of the LSD (if fitted) helps a lot with keeping the car stable under braking when using ABS0. You need to play around to find your sweet spot between to much understeer and the car being a twitchy monster when you brake on anything but a perfectly flat straight.

Actually, yes. I guess that confirms my experiments and it seems logical. Good tip!
The problem is this can be different for different cars. Pfffff ... a lot of work to do.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm using a ds3 but i cycle all the cars i have for every race, all in stock with stock tires, say for starters 2001 golf gti on comfort softs

I may have a good car to practice, a 450PP FF based on TODA RACING Civic Type R '08 ( FD2 ) that drives so well even on comfort soft.

TODA RACING FIGHTEX Honda Civic Type R ( FD2 ) Demo Car 450PP version

TODA RACING FD2 Civic Type R Demo Car tuned for 450PP
Comfort Soft to Sports Medium​

View attachment 115207​

CAR : Honda Civic Type R ( FD2 ) ' 08
Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Medium

Specs
Horsepower: 275 HP / 279 PS at 8500 RPM
Torque : 187.9 ft-lb at 6500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 99.9%
Weight: 1150 kg
Ballast : 10 kg
Ballast Position : -9
Weight Distribution : 59 / 41 - as stock.
Performance Points: 450

GT AUTO
Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED ) -optional, there's no bad side effect of this, highly recommended.
Wheels : Standard Size - BLITZ BRW Profile 08 in Silver Chrome
Car Paint : Championship White


Tuning Parts Installed :
Racing Exhaust
Catalytic Converter:Sports
Isometric Exhaust Manifold
Twin Plate Clutch Kit
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension
Weight Reduction Stage 1
Carbon Hood ( Body Color )
Window Weight Reduction



Suspension - TODA RACING FIGHTEX Type EX Coilover
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 120 110
Spring Rate: 9.00 12.00
Dampers (Compression): 6 3
Dampers (Extension): 6 1
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 4
Camber Angle: 0.2 1.2 ( use zero camber all around for max grip )
Toe Angle: 0.08 0.00



LSD - 1.5 way Cusco Type RS LSD
Initial Torque : 18
Acceleration Sensitivity: 20
Braking Sensitivity: 10



Brake Balance:
6/7 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 6/7, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I would recommend to run just one click higher on rear brake.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 6/7 brake balance as starting point.

View attachment 115525​

Notes :
TODA RACING built the demo car for their line up of engine + drivetrain tune up and suspension kit. The car has 2.2 TODA Racing Stoker kit fitted along with complete internal upgrades + high lift camshaft, sports injection, updated ECU, full exhaust system, intake and exhaust manifold. The car estimated to produce roughly 280PS The car also fitted with Work Emotion 18 inch wheel - closest match in GT6 is BLITZ BRW Profile 08.

Since detailed power data is hard to find, I have to calculate rough estimate based on a known FD2 Civic with TODA upgrade package without stroker kit, intake and sports injection ( 7 PS increase ) has around 248PS. 280PS IMO is pretty accurate based on information from people that I consulted

This version is optimized for 450PP, different ride height, front damper, anti roll bar and front toe are used. Power and torque have been tweaked as well as weight for optimum balance of power/weight/torque.

Tuned and tested at Laguna Seca, Tsukuba and Street of Willow. When tested at Tsukuba the car is capable of easily hitting 1:05s lap on comfort soft. My best lap so far is at 1:04.5xx at Tsukuba on comfort soft. Very quick for 450PP FF car.


ENJOY

I would recommend to drive it Tsukuba or Laguna Seca, use 6/7 BB as a start ( I used this when driving the car ). If the brake locks too early, drop the value by 1, 5/6 then 4/5 until you find a good working value You can aim to beat my lap time at Tsukuba ( 1:04.5xxx CS ) for added fun challenge.

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

If you use 2-3 front and 1 rear for your brake bias settings you will not lock up, it's become way too easy to drive with abs off now IMO.

 

[Dusty1990]

Nope. Praiano did some testing on this and the braking distances are exactly the same, all that changes is how much pedal travel you need to get to lock. Very long pedal travel with standard brakes, very short with racing brakes. When you alter brake balance you are actually altering pedal travel distance until lock, front and back. So if you have a 6/2 BB for example and floor the pedal you get a 6/2 brake balance. If you only push it halfway however, may already be at 6 on the front because a higher BB means less pedal travel to lock, but the back might only be at 1 since you have to press the brakes almost all the way to max out a rear BB of 2. At half pedal you might actually have 6/1.

Sounds bizarre but if you think of BB not as brake strength but as pedal travel to lock it makes much more sense, higher BB being shorter travel to lock etc.

Another GT fail then...great

I'll try with stock brakes on the suzuka tt later, cheers for the info 👍

 

[f1webberfan]

If you use 2-3 front and 1 rear for your brake bias settings you will not lock up, it's become way too easy to drive with abs off now IMO.

Then I have a very heavy foot.
Anyway. With that setting, I think, you have to relearn all your braking points because in my book I usually miss the corner because brakes didn't do their job. Or maybe it's just the car.

 

[Dusty1990]

Then I have a very heavy foot.
Anyway. With that setting, I think, you have to relearn all your braking points because in my book I usually miss the corner because brakes didn't do their job. Or maybe it's just the car.

such low bb doesn't work for me either, I've always thought a higher # helped but looks like I was wrong

 

[Griffith500]

I drive most cars with the stock 5/5 "brake bias" now, and only usually get lockups near the end of the brake "travel" (I have a slightly dodgy load cell). The braking behaviour has been modified a couple of times via patches, so perhaps the old wisdom needs re-testing.

Open / loose decel diffs and ABS 0 don't really get on, I'm unsure how realistic that is. I generally don't like tightening up on the decel side, but it's sometimes necessary to get the brake balance you need for effective trail braking actually workable on the car.

 

[GTboyz]

Brake bias indeed. Forget about racing brakes. With stock brakes I use 5/3 and it works perfectly. This is with Sport Hard tires. With Sport Medium or Soft, you can get away with the stock 5/5 setting.

Wheel or controller, it doesn't matter. I play with DS3 and rarely lock the brakes on my old cars and TVR's, unless I really want to. Feels really nice and it's a lot of fun. Much more forgiving than in GT5. I use the right analog stick for gas an brake though, so I have way more control than with the buttons or the triggers.

But if you're one of those guys who put racing parts on every car, you may want to lower the bias to 0/0, or 1/0 the most. You'll still have lock ups though, but they are controllable.

Haha i used the analog for the throttle too, though i can't slam the brakes and the throttle at the same time with ease since you have to pull the analog to brake.

I never knew you guys race with ABS 0, I keep locking up even though i feather my brakes.

 

[Johnnypenso]

such low bb doesn't work for me either, I've always thought a higher # helped but looks like I was wrong

No you're right. A higher number can help because the higher the number the quicker you reach full braking. The time to press the pedal is small but it takes time. Even if it's 2/10ths of a second, by increasing the BB you'll reach full braking sooner in that 2/10ths and might shave off a 1/4 of that time which would be .05. .05 x 10 corners is 0.5 seconds. Even if it's only shaving .01 or .02 per corner that's still 1-2/10ths.

With standard brakes it's also true that with low BB's you may not have enough braking to fully utilize all the braking force available. We know you can set BB's low with standard brakes and not lock up with noABS. In that case you could be losing time in every corner with a low BB because there is more braking available than you are using.

The downside to that of course is less pedal sensitivity and it's easier to make mistakes by going to full braking sooner. It's harder to trail brake as well. And some people will find that low BB's make a car smoother and easier to control with less weight shift and more predictable behaviour. They might be faster as a result. But if you can swing it, higher BB's have the potential to be slightly faster, provided you can control the car with the shorter brake throw to lock.

I have to give credit where credit is due here. I think PD has done a great job on the brakes this time around. Being able to drive without ABS and having tunable standard brakes has been a Godsend. ABS isn't quite the same as it was in GT5 either, and with higher BB's you can still lock the tires braking, and you can feel a lot of cars really digging in under hard braking with the wheel. Tuning brake balance to suit your own driving style and so you can trail brake effectively is a big key in being quick in GT6.

 

[JujiroMatsuda]

I just joined this ABS-0 religion last week.lol

After a month of playing GT5 I learnt that to go faster I had to ditch TC and learn to control the throttle with right foot. Now, I'm going to learn to brake without mechanical aids with my left foot.

So far what I've learnt is that standard brakes do most of the job with any tyre below slicks. Brake strength can be car and track dependant as well, it's certainly a tyre dependant. After I tuned the car I usually test drive on a track to check all the usuals, gear ratios, traction, LSD, handling etc and I now have to include BB to that routine as well. Whenever I switch circuits or change tyres I'd have to change BB on a car.

I think racing brakes are for, as name suggests, racing tyres as the grip becomes so overwhelming for standards that extra braking power is needed to stop the car as fast as tyres would allow. Drive a Nascar on Motegi and you quickly realise it's a huge task even for RBs to lock up those fat grippy racing slicks. So to me, it makes no sense to equip RBs on cars with comforts and even SH tyres, I just don't have that sensitive foot to modulate brake pedal with first 1cm travel

 

[Johnnypenso]

I just joined this ABS-0 religion last week.lol

After a month of playing GT5 I learnt that to go faster I had to ditch TC and learn to control the throttle with right foot. Now, I'm going to learn to brake without mechanical aids with my left foot.

So far what I've learnt is that standard brakes do most of the job with any tyre below slicks. Brake strength can be car and track dependant as well, it's certainly a tyre dependant. After I tuned the car I usually test drive on a track to check all the usuals, gear ratios, traction, LSD, handling etc and I now have to include BB to that routine as well. Whenever I switch circuits or change tyres I'd have to change BB on a car.

I think racing brakes are for, as name suggests, racing tyres as the grip becomes so overwhelming for standards that extra braking power is needed to stop the car as fast as tyres would allow. Drive a Nascar on Motegi and you quickly realise it's a huge task even for RBs to lock up those fat grippy racing slicks. So to me, it makes no sense to equip RBs on cars with comforts and even SH tyres, I just don't have that sensitive foot to modulate brake pedal with first 1cm travel

Looks like you've figured it all out..well done Have you tried the sponge ball behind the pedals trick? Bungee cords?

 

[JujiroMatsuda]

Looks like you've figured it all out..well done Have you tried the sponge ball behind the pedals trick? Bungee cords?

I had thought about that does that work?

edit: ah, sorry I forgot, thank you for your compliment!

 

[Johnnypenso]

I had thought about that does that work?

edit: ah, sorry I forgot, thank you for your compliment!

It works. It doesn't feel quite natural because it's not a "spring" perse, but it does increase the brake pressure needed to get to full throw on the pedal. I had more success with the insulation but most people I've seen posting here used the sponge ball. I upgraded to the G27 more than a year ago and bought the @GTEYE brake mod for it and it's spectacular. Feels much more like a real brake now.

 

[NCRthree]

Yes it works. I could not modulate with any success without some added resistance. I used some pieces of a very firm tiling sponge from a hardware store plus a couple bungees. Makes a world of difference.