Inside sim racing announces rumor that upgraded premiums will cost money.

[Motor City Hami]

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!
When you purchase a license to an iRacing car, you own it forever unless the license is discontinued.
Same with the tracks.
There are also no license tests.
There are LICENSES, but not license tests.
And you don't need a better license to gain use to another track, only another car.

Get your facts straight please.

So if you don't pay your monthly fee next year, can you still play the game? I think not. Get your facts straight. You are renting the game. You don't own it and can't sell it on eBay.

 

[p-coletray]

^^masmullin-I'm saying not quite, I was just making a joke, you just went to the moon.

 

[zk523]

If kaz was on 200k a year he wouldn't own the collection of super cars that he does, he's absurdly well off.

Yes the average programmer earns around 50k a year, but PD as I've already stated is a tiny team, their business profile gives an estimate of 110 employees, yet they have sold almost 50 million copies of Gran Turismo in total. I can assure you that the average staff salary will be very above average.

Quoted from the top gear webisite:

What's in your garage at the moment?
I drive my Nissan GT-R most of the time, but I've also got a Ford GT, a Porsche 911 GT3, a Mercedes-Benz SL AMG, and a Honda S2000 racing car.

Trust me a collection like that is far beyond the reaches of someone on a 200k salary. I doubt very much that's the full extent of his car collection either.

Thats not exactly true...he could just lease all of those cars (except maybe the S2000 race car). Assuming each lease payment is no more than $2000 per month, he COULD be making $10k in car payments a month. I'm not saying its impossible, since it would eat up a HUGE chunk of his "$200k" salary but it could happen. I had a friend who was leasing a CLS 63 and I think his lease payment was like $2100 a month or something, as an example.

 

[masmullin]

Thats not exactly true...he could just lease all of those cars (except maybe the S2000 race car). Assuming each lease payment is no more than $2000 per month, he COULD be making $10k in car payments a month. I'm not saying its impossible, since it would eat up a HUGE chunk of his "$200k" salary but it could happen. I had a friend who was leasing a CLS 63 and I think his lease payment was like $2100 a month or something, as an example.

More than likely he can write off any car payments as a "business expense"

 

[masmullin]

^^masmullin-I'm saying not quite, I was just making a joke, you just went to the moon.

I was making a joke too

 

[slicecom]

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!
When you purchase a license to an iRacing car, you own it forever unless the license is discontinued.
Same with the tracks.
There are also no license tests.
There are LICENSES, but not license tests.
And you don't need a better license to gain use to another track, only another car.

Get your facts straight please.

Still sounds like a rental to me. You can't play with all the cars and tracks you supposedly own, if you stop making the monthly payments.

 

[theignoramus]

More than likely he can write off any car payments as a "business expense"

Heh.

 

[zk523]

More than likely he can write off any car payments as a "business expense"

True, but writing off the payment towards your taxes only lowers your tax exposure by...nevermind.

He could just save the trouble of all that and keep it in the company's name. I was thinking those were his personal cars, not just cars he gets to drive on "loan."

As far as the premium thing, I'd like to see PD upgrade the standards at no cost and I wouldnt have any problem paying for DLC tracks or cars if/when they release them...hopefully starting with a 1986 Ford Thunderbird, 1992 Honda Accord LX Coupe, 1991 Acura Legend Coupe, 2007 BMW 335i Sedan and 2009 Honda Fit Sport (in that order). I will pay $10 total for those cars alone as a DLC.

 

[KopparbergDave]

That principal makes me lol, you are aware the whole PD team probably are on £1,000,000 salaries(or more).

This has everything to do with greed and nothing to do with making a living.

I don't get how people just roll over to games companies and accept this sort of thing...seriously

I do highly doubt that. The majority of them will be earning the usual rate for people doing these jobs... they won't be getting mor just cos it's PD and Gran Turismo we're talking about. Game Devs, to give them their dues, work under incredibly heavy loads, strict limits and relatively strict budgets. They work long hours and really they don't get paid as much as you might think.

I'm happy to pay (reasonably) for DLC, what other game has anything like the content that GT5 has, the amount of circuits and the number of detailed premium models is still impressive. I'd happily pay for new tracks, anything up to £3-£5 for a track like Spa, and ideally I think you should get cars being upgraded to Premiums for maybe 99p a pop, or car packs featuring say 10 premiums for £3 as well.

 

[invader67]

I don't think its cognitive dissonance for me in this case. I had 30 days to take back the wheel, and at the beginning I was very concerned with "am I having lots of fun," because if I wasn't I was going to go get most of my money back.

Though I admit, I might be saying 9.5 when I mean 8.5.

So now on day 45 and I'm quite addicted to the game. I bought CoD:BO at the same time as buying GT5, and have yet to unwrap the plastic on that game... I really am having lots of fun with GT5.

I would echo this sentiment 100%. The wheel is awesome. COD:BO might be awesome, but I can't get myself to play it enough to honestly say. GT5 has it's flaws, but am I losing sleep over them? No. Do Standard cars keep me awake at night? No. Do I wish iRacing (which I have a full subscription to) had a 458 or ALFA 8C? You betcha.

 

[p-coletray]

Theres 2 kinds of salaries in this world, one for work, and one for celebrity. Kaz has the rare priveledge of both, the latter comes with way more benefits, even "Gifts"

 

[NOS Waster]

So if you don't pay your monthly fee next year, can you still play the game? I think not. Get your facts straight. You are renting the game. You don't own it and can't sell it on eBay.

Who said anything about a MONTHLY fee? I pay every 2 years.
I'd much rather pay $180 every 2 years than keep my XBL subscription and my PS Plus Subscription.
XBL: $60/yr
PS+: $50/yr

combined 2-year total: $220

iRacing 2-year total: $180 (for paying every 2 years)(It's cheaper than WoW, too!)

Also, wording your response in a less confusing matter would have cleared up the confusion between: Owning/Renting the game and Owning/Renting the content.
Essentially: You own the content, you don't own the game.

If more people would actually sign up for iRacing, a price drop may happen (Again).

 

[invader67]

True, but writing off the payment towards your taxes only lowers your tax exposure by...nevermind.

He could just save the trouble of all that and keep it in the company's name. I was thinking those were his personal cars, not just cars he gets to drive on "loan."

As far as the premium thing, I'd like to see PD upgrade the standards at no cost and I wouldnt have any problem paying for DLC tracks or cars if/when they release them...hopefully starting with a 1986 Ford Thunderbird, 1992 Honda Accord LX Coupe, 1991 Acura Legend Coupe, 2007 BMW 335i Sedan and 2009 Honda Fit Sport (in that order). I will pay $10 total for those cars alone as a DLC.

I have had the pleasure of working in the international advertising game and have personally known many people who "owned" tremendously expensive cars that were courtesy of the company that they owned/worked for. Given the exposure that Kaz provides for a lot of these car makers it is completely conceivable that cars are given to him/PD.

 

[petalpusher6]

Comparing a subscription of one game to an entire service (wich is even free in fact)..?

 

[Lawndart]

Just charging for a handful of cars that are already in the game to be premium is not enough for anyone but the folks that love hot-lapping...

But if they add actual game play content like more events and other features then I would gladly pay... An honestly this is the best way to "slip" more premium models into the game...

I guess what I'm saying is I pay for play time... if it gives me more play time great! If I look at the hours sunk in GT5 now it nets out as like 5 cents and hour... or less... the game has payed for itself in entrainment investment.

I can't stand what FM3 did, added a track and it wasn't integrated into single player at all so the only way to enjoy it was online... in a private lobby... or in "arcade" mode.

Not to mention anything sold on PSN seems to cost double what anyone else charges... XBLA, iTunes, etc. all have rich content that costs half what Sony charges so I really hope they have the content to justify the costs... as this is wildly inconsistent on PSN... Anyone want to pay $13 for a stupid private home-space on PSN home? LOL

 

[G.T.Ace]

Why is everyone discussing how much money Yamauchi has and earns after this:

That principal makes me lol, you are aware the whole PD team probably are on £1,000,000 salaries(or more).

?
You guys do know that there are 140 more people working at Polyphony Digital and no one of them earns as much as Yamauchi? Not to mention that he is also the Vice President of SCEJ. Some of you have seriously no idea what you are talking about, ridiculous.

 

[NOS Waster]

Comparing a subscription of one game to an entire service (wich is even free in fact)..?

Yep. . .
I still don't understand why some people think it is necessary to compare a subscription game to a version-based game.

Subscription games: Normally for the enthusiast. (Normally the people complain about the quality of the other)
Version-based games: Normally for the average gamer. (Normally the people complain about the price of the other.)

Both have their advantages and both have their audience.

GT5: I would estimate that about 1.5 million people play this online.
Advantages: Lots of people to play with. Don't have to download the initial software. No subscription fees to the game itself. Graphics are amazing.

iRacing: 30,000 people play it.
Advantages: Top notch quality. Many people yearly are given the opportunity to compete in real-life racing series. The much sought-after DWC series w/ a grand prize of 10 grand. (Pretty good for a small sim). Problem: Not too many people so the races sometimes don't fill up and can get boring.

 

[Mike712]

I do highly doubt that. The majority of them will be earning the usual rate for people doing these jobs... they won't be getting mor just cos it's PD and Gran Turismo we're talking about. Game Devs, to give them their dues, work under incredibly heavy loads, strict limits and relatively strict budgets. They work long hours and really they don't get paid as much as you might think.

Well I think you're more than likely wrong, but neither of us has any way to prove it so lets leave it at that.

I'm happy to pay (reasonably) for DLC, what other game has anything like the content that GT5 has, the amount of circuits and the number of detailed premium models is still impressive. I'd happily pay for new tracks, anything up to £3-£5 for a track like Spa, and ideally I think you should get cars being upgraded to Premiums for maybe 99p a pop, or car packs featuring say 10 premiums for £3 as well.

£3-£5 for a single track, are you mental? lets say that 10% of people that bought GT5 pay £5 for a DLC track, that's 550,000 people, so PD/Sony makes £2.75 million of that 1 track alone(and that's if only 10% of GT users buy it), do you see what I mean by overpriced DLC? or do you actually think it costs them £2.75 million, just to make and distribute 1 track via DLC?

 

[p-coletray]

Why is everyone discussing how much money Yamauchi has and earns after this:

?
You guys do know that there are 140 more people working at Polyphony Digital and no one of them earns as much as Yamauchi? Not to mention that he is also the Vice President of SCEJ. Some of you have seriously no idea what you are talking about, ridiculous.

What is his salary, so we can carry on the argument?

 

[Destinkeys]

I feel that new cars, upgraded cars, new tracks, updated tracks, PD has every right to charge for those. We all KNEW before the release how many Premium's and how many Standards we were going to get, and basically the track list, too. There was enough leaked information to cancel any pre-order if sufficiently incensed about the whole deal.

However, I don't recall any information about having only 1/3 as many A-Spec races, or that B-Spec was twice the length of A-Spec, or the insane grinding to progress, or the lack of many tuning parameters previously addressable, or the lack of the promised full damage modeling, or many of the GAMEPLAY features so lacking in GT5.

THOSE should be free patches (which some of them already are, in part at least).

Thing that upsets me the most is that PD have TIME to work on Premiumizing Standard Cars, but they don't seem to have the time to think up another 200 A-Spec events (which would take about a week, tops) to eliminate the boredom and grind of the main game. That they haven't made time to set up something that looked at the power of your entered car in a race, and upped the AI's 'Typical Opponents' to more closely match them. That they haven't made an effort to make online matchmaking easy. That they haven't made an Event Generator, etc., etc., ad infinitum.

They got time to scan the headlights of a car that possibly few will ever see, but they haven't got time to make the game you DRIVE that car around in as good as the previous game. Even if they are FREE (and what's the odds of that?), it still shows an appalling lack of attention to what would make the GAME a better one. Driving a piece of prettier software around in a hugely flawed game doesn't make it one iota better, IMO....

PD have their heads stuck up a very dark and smelly place.

 

[slicecom]

I'd much rather pay $180 every 2 years than keep my XBL subscription and my PS Plus Subscription.
XBL: $60/yr
PS+: $50/yr

combined 2-year total: $220

Thats just a silly comparassion. You don't have to pay for PS+ to do ANYTHING in Gran Turismo, the total cost of Gran Turismo is $60. No idea why you mentioned XBL here either. Here is the proper comparassion:

GT5: $60 TOTAL
iRacing: $90 ANNUALLY

 

[Schwarzenegger]

Why must the DLC's be for free? PD actually have to work to get them in the game, and if I know them right, they will need to borrow real cars and use lots of time getting things right. GT5 has way more content than most games out there, so we should not complain about it.

 

[afc2112]

Why must the DLC's be for free? PD actually have to work to get them in the game, and if I know them right, they will need to borrow real cars and use lots of time getting things right. GT5 has way more content than most games out there, so we should not complain about it.

Because the premium cars are PS4 ready. Which means you'll pay for those same cars again in GT6, just like you paid for GT4 cars in GT5.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Some/most DLC already costs money so why would'nt future DLC have a price eh!

You can always wait for GT6 which will be ...... sooooooooon

 

[Lawndart]

I agree the focus of the product as a whole is questionable... In fairness the current structure is good for about 40+ hours if you just play all the events back to back? And thats not including the multiple breaks during a 24 hour race...

BUT, GT's tend to keep people busy for a much longer duration without having to redo too much stuff, this was missed in this version and there are some pretty intelligent assumptions as to why but none confirmed... And as much as I love exp in games the way they did actually discourages going back to earlier "production car" events as there is it undermines the exp progression... unless there was WAY more events...

Adding A-spec events are so easy its almost silly... The only data to DL would be the little pictures that I'm sure PD has about 100k of that are the races title... And also they don't need to think these things up, they already have 5 other games of these...

In fact its SO simple I pretty much expect more A-spec... or a multi-player version of A-spec instead...

Would I pay for more A-spec? Sure... even though its simple.
Would I pay for new premium cars that aren't in the game now? Sure.
Would I pay for just premium versions of existing cars? Not likely unless its the actual car I own or just simply my favorite cars... OR they are all part of the same race series WITH a new event/s to use them in...

But I absolutely won't pay for just premium versions of existing cars... that would be too much like unfinished work being tacked in...

Also, lets be honest with ourselves about the Standard vs. premium... when did they announce this? Some would say back when they showed the first damage model video... fair enough but we all assumed that was damage only... To me it didn't register until just a few months before ship... and after 6 years of super hype... well lets just say I never really understood it entirely just like most of you...

Does anyone remember the Model T car and race that was suppose to be in GT 5?

 

[Sele1981]

Personally, I think all possible GT5 DLC will be free.

If so, then unfortunately we will get very less DLC. I would love to see it if they go the T10 way... It´s no problem (at least for me) to pay 2-5€ a month for 10 hot and new cars a month... But I would pay no more cent for japanese cars, enough is enough...

Standard --> Premium would only make sense for a few cars in my oppinion... If they start to upgrade the skylines, toyotas und suzuki´s, it would be a big waste of time...

It´s time to implement some serious european and some US cars... What new cars do we have in GT5? Audi RS6 and Mercedes SLS... the rest are old cars... No Golf6 no new SLK no new Scirocco no new Audi´s no new BMW´s no new RUF´s...

 

[G.T.Ace]

What is his salary, so we can carry on the argument?

I don't know, but it's definitely more than a "normal" guy at Polyphony gets.
Game developers usually don't get a lot of money anyway.

 

[DawgCCCP]

I seriously would not bother to pay for cars that will be made premium, there are so many of them that just deserve it.

And for instance if it comes with packs of 6-10 cars for let say 9.95euro for dlc I would like yea whateve just buy

 

[SpoonMaNEQ]

the only way they would get me to buy a Car pack would be if they included a 1977 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am (the chick magnet I owned in my early 20's)

now if they want to sell me say a track pack with 30+ new tracks or an A-spec add-on I will buy that on day one.

 

[7HO]

Why must the DLC's be for free? PD actually have to work to get them in the game, and if I know them right, they will need to borrow real cars and use lots of time getting things right. GT5 has way more content than most games out there, so we should not complain about it.

For cockpit racers this is a 200 car game with enough issues that many genuine fans are very disappointed. Of course we all knew what we were paying for when we got the game but keep in mind many of us bought the game after we were told that there would be regular updates to make this game what the GT5 community wants. One of the things many of us want is more significant cars to be made Premium.

How much content GT5 has should be viewed in context, GT5 has a lot of half arsed or incomplete content and even Kaz recognises this in a diplomatic way. If Kaz says this game is incomplete and recognises the complaints as being legitimate then it is fair to continue to complain. The things that are complained about are the most likely to be updated and of course this will not be the last title in the series so PD will no doubt consider that every decision they make in regard to GT5 will affect future sales.

I think an important consideration is also the future titles coming from other developers. Shift 2 is claiming to be the most realistic racing sim ever, Forza 4 will no doubt try to be as serious a threat to GT as possible, if either of these turn out to be as realistic or more realistic than GT5 in the Physics department then PD is in serious trouble. Forza 3 already beats GT5 in so many areas, it already has more premium cars, if Forza 4 gets physics right unless PD make some significant improvements to GT5 before then there may be a lot of people who lose interest in what PD are doing altogether. Just think if PD are charging purchase price + DLC then any other title that comes out with more Premium cars and has comparable physics is automatically better value.

I personally think PD giving free Premium upgrades in addition to the continued updates to the game is their best defence against the upcoming competition because PD do not have another title on the horizon any time soon.